Nah, i dont defend Carver that much. I think he was a bit too violent.
Lee was stupid walking through the herd, thats all. He knew he was going to die, but if he had died because of the herd, then everything he did so far would have been pointless. I never said that Lee going to Marsh house was stupid.
Flagged as trolling.
Nah, i dont defend Carver that much. I think he was a bit too violent.
Lee was stupid walking through the herd, t… morehats all. He knew he was going to die, but if he had died because of the herd, then everything he did so far would have been pointless. I never said that Lee going to Marsh house was stupid.
Kenny was dangerous for Jane because Jane wanted to be the boss or take clem with her
If someone says "i like this ending more", i dont really care. If they say "its safer to be with Kenny" or its "morale thing to let Kenny murder someone", of course im going to state how they are wrong.
And that is your opinion, you can't force people to agree with you but refuse to see it their way
And I think she'll be safer with Kenny and i'll keep on thinking it so no matter what lies you tell and what ifs and maybes and i could bla bla bla
and that suicide mission was wellington what was there and a safe place is you get in and howes had the doors open and could have been robbed clean or taken over
You know that i will start a debate if anyone gives a reason for it, so why did you do it?
she wants Kenny out because they are closer… more
She wants Kenny away from Clementine, because Kenny is becoming too dangerous to be around.
And now you try to make your point by saying Clem is retarded??
Even if Clementine never sides up with Kenny or agree with his plans, when Jane proposes that they leave Kenny behind so they could save their own lives, Clementine disagrees. How is that not retarded? A suicidal and violent man is driving them on suicide mission and she doesnt want to leave him behind...
You go up against most of the people who had different outcomes than you did and keep on saying their decisions were the wrong ones
If someone says "i like this ending more", i dont really care. If they say "its safer to be with Kenny" or its "morale thing to let Kenny murder someone", of course im going to state how they are wrong.
episode 4
When you walk through the woods, learn "new" tricks and eventually find Sarah and Luke
The observation Deck. If you choose t… moreo go there first, you get additional dialogues.
While Jane is leaving
Episode 5
After she comes back
At the campfire scene
Inside the house after you wake up
After you go back inside the house
Did you forget all these scenes?
Oke what is the trolling then ? I gave my opinion
Oke you are flagged as trolling now too because when i say something you don't want to read you report it....
Kenny was dangerous for Jane because Jane wanted to be the boss or take clem with her
If someone says "i like this ending more", i dont r… moreeally care. If they say "its safer to be with Kenny" or its "morale thing to let Kenny murder someone", of course im going to state how they are wrong.
And that is your opinion, you can't force people to agree with you but refuse to see it their way
And I think she'll be safer with Kenny and i'll keep on thinking it so no matter what lies you tell and what ifs and maybes and i could bla bla bla
and that suicide mission was wellington what was there and a safe place is you get in and howes had the doors open and could have been robbed clean or taken over
I'm done with your dumb Jane is the holy grale BS
See this is exactly what I'm talking about. Do you see me out here, calling whatever you create utter garbage, mocking you for simple interpretations and such? No. All I came out here to do was have a good time, and I honestly feel so attacked right now. Okay seriously all joking aside, I simply explained my interpretations and I'm not saying that THIS is the definite meaning of the endings. I was simply explaining what I believed each ending signify. You say I'm biased, okay good now shot it. How am I biased? Who am I biased towards?
If you're saying I dislike Kenny. Matter of fact is I don't, he's a great character and a man who has been deprived of everything he loved other than Clementine and AJ and thus will go to extreme lengths to make sure they are safe. Do I regret shooting him? Yes, yes I do indeed. But it was my choice, it was the heat of the moment and it was my mistake.
Also the "Implying that trying to stop a murder EVEN AT THE EXPENSE ONE OF HER CLOSEST FRIENDS means that Clem is "becoming Carver"
Now I never, never ever said she was becoming Carver. I said she was LIKE Carver. In terms of following Carvers teachings even if she didn't mean to do so. "Killing one in order to save many is part of survival" or the fact that Carver wanted to kill Kenny and put him down. Or the fact Carver ends up "handing off" his safe camp to Clementine in the end, and the fact Clementine is left alone with a survivalist. I'm not saying Clementine is an evil person like Carver, but her actions portray her to be like Carver when it comes down to instincts, that is my opinion.
I have old nokia which doesnt even have internet connection.
You keep accusing me of making other accaunts, just so i could thumbs up my comments. You are simply trolling.
Why would i even give a fuck about something as pointless as thumbs up?
Well mods can see if you do that with your phone or log out and log in with your other account.
And how is that trolling, because you don't like it ?
You have the biggest mouth on this forum but if someone talks back you report them lmao
Um... Carver would have let Kenny kill her, I'm pretty sure.
Sorry but no, letting one person murder another in front of your eyes is immoral and definitely more of a "step" in the Carver direction.
Well mods can see if you do that with your phone or log out and log in with your other account.
And how is that trolling, because you don't like it ?
You have the biggest mouth on this forum but if someone talks back you report them lmao
See this is exactly what I'm talking about. Do you see me out here, calling whatever you create utter garbage, mocking you for simple interpretations and such? No. All I came out here to do was have a good time, and I honestly feel so attacked right now. Okay seriously all joking aside, I simply explained my interpretations and I'm not saying that THIS is the definite meaning of the endings. I was simply explaining what I believed each ending signify. You say I'm biased, okay good now shot it.
Sorry bro. I felt like you were attacking seventy some odd percent of the people that played the game for doing what they felt was morally right. That's why I raged on you.
Guys may I remind you, I did say that these are simply my interpretations and opinions and I am not saying that these interpretations I have… more presented about the endings are the actual meanings of the endings, or what Telltale were trying to achieve. All I'm seeing are lists of comments telling me that I'm biased, or how my opinion is wrong - When really all I'm asking for are perhaps your opinions or interpretations.
you never claimed it but a blind guy can even read your prefence for jane
Any rational/cold/logical character would have been my favorite. Molly was in season 1, Jane was in season 2. Carver could have been also, but he was too violent.
You talk the same way to a girl who was depressed and you still attack her
I never attacked her? I simply pointed out how she was wrong about suicide always being emotional response.
Your social skills are in some situations slim to none and thats why you have almost 2000 comments in less than 2 months
Does anyone here prefer if the 'Pizza vs Ice Cream' choice was Kenny or Luke?
Here's how I would want it to go down:
Jane is the one who falls in the ice, Luke would take Bonnie's role and tell Clem to help or cover her, either way Luke or Clem falls in with Jane, and if you don't break the ice when Jane's drowning, Luke would come out where he or Clem fell in, so Luke and Kenny start to work together better and become good friends, after the scene with Kenny at the truck when he tells her to go check on AJ, Clem and Luke have a scene where they talk about things they regret, after that the scene at the truck, the group talks about where they're headed, Mike and Bonnie thinks they should head to Texas, Kenny thinks they should head to Wellington, and Luke thinks they should head to the town or Howe's, after that, Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo try to leave with all the supplies and the truck, after Clem gets shot, Bonnie wants to stay and help while Mike urges Bonnie to leave, then you have the Lee scene, after Clem wakes up, Kenny and Luke want to talk about where they're going, and since Kenny wants to pick up some gas, and then zombies come and Luke tells Clem to drive and find Kenny, they crash, Clem has the scene walking in the snow shooting zombies, then she finds AJ in the gas station, then she finds Luke and Kenny struggling to to hold off the zombies trying to kill them, and then comes the choice to either save Kenny or Luke,
If Kenny is saved:
Kenny gets the same ending, but Christa is at Wellington, but they can only take Clem and AJ, so Kenny has his speech about staying at Wellington
Clem can either choose to stay at Wellington with Christa and AJ, or leave Wellington with Kenny and AJ
If Luke is saved:
Luke and Clem have a talk about whether to head to the town or back to Howe's,
If you head to Howe's: Pretty much the same thing happens, only you meet the 400 Days people and decide to rebuild Howe's
If you head to the town: They decide to hold up in the church, and find Lily and choose to make her leave or stay
Or you can leave and choose neither of them and get the same Alone ending
you never claimed it but a blind guy can even read your prefence for jane
Any rational/cold/logical character would have been my fav… moreorite. Molly was in season 1, Jane was in season 2. Carver could have been also, but he was too violent.
You talk the same way to a girl who was depressed and you still attack her
I never attacked her? I simply pointed out how she was wrong about suicide always being emotional response.
Your social skills are in some situations slim to none and thats why you have almost 2000 comments in less than 2 months
That doesnt really make any sense.
It makes sense because most off your comments are only to try to convince others that your point is the only right one...
No im not? You really do have lousy reading comprehension skills.
Suicide in most cases is , so the majority is so she is right...
Yes, for the most cases. I was talking about spesific cases where its not based on emotions, but rational decision.
Carver kills someone over some berries
The dialogue let me understand that Reggie has kept fucking up that that was final mistake he can make.
he is one of your favorites only because he almost killed kenny
I never wanted Kenny dead simply because i disliked him, i just wanted Clem away from him.
kenny who beats a guy because he tried to rob the group and killing Luke indirectly is wrong in your biased eyes, biased much YES YOU ARE
Kenny didnt kill him or leave him be, he kept beating him. He seems to enjoy hurting those who have wronged him, which i consider sick. Bullet to the head doenst hurt, beating someone constantly hurts. Kenny killed the Strangers family indirectly. Was the Stranger not bad guy for kidnapping Clementine to keep her safe (his opinion). Only one who is biased here is you.
Does anyone here prefer if the 'Pizza vs Ice Cream' choice was Kenny or Luke?
Here's how I would want it to go down:
Jane is the one w… moreho falls in the ice, Luke would take Bonnie's role and tell Clem to help or cover her, either way Luke or Clem falls in with Jane, and if you don't break the ice when Jane's drowning, Luke would come out where he or Clem fell in, so Luke and Kenny start to work together better and become good friends, after the scene with Kenny at the truck when he tells her to go check on AJ, Clem and Luke have a scene where they talk about things they regret, after that the scene at the truck, the group talks about where they're headed, Mike and Bonnie thinks they should head to Texas, Kenny thinks they should head to Wellington, and Luke thinks they should head to the town or Howe's, after that, Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo try to leave with all the supplies and the truck, after Clem gets shot, Bonnie wants to stay and help … [view original content]
Just a reminder that I'd like you all to behave, please. Some of you are blatantly disobeying the rules for civil discussion. I'll flag what I come across, but in addition to that, other users can help by flagging posts.
this post tho ^^ 100% on pointttt! i couldnt believe anyone would even shoot Kenny..it gives you the stats at the end of the game, and it said only 12.8% didnt shoot him, i was in shock.
Thread: Analysis: Kenny and Jane fight.
SPOILERS Edit: Added Jane's dialogue after the fight and my thoughts on them 9-2-14
Edit: A… moredded a "Other thoughts" section 9-7-14, which I might update again at some time.
Ok, so I want to give my analysis on the choice that has caused so much debate in episode 5. Whether to kill Kenny or look away and let Kenny kill Jane.
I want to approach this on a morally objective viewpoint. So my choice will not be based upon an emotional bias of liking/disliking Kenny/Jane over the other. My analysis will be limited to just the fight scene and the scene with AJ in the car shortly after the fight ends. So let's begin...
When Jane comes back without the baby it becomes clear to both Kenny and Clementine that something has happened to the baby. Kenny is in denial that the baby is dead so he leaves to find the baby. It's at this point that Jane says something that is vital to our final decision.
J… [view original content]
For anyone still following this discussion: what would you have done if Jane had confessed about AJ being alive, and Kenny still tried to kill her? I'm curious to know, and be honest now. Vote:
If Jane did admit it, Kenny would go straight to AJ and get him out of the car and to safety. More than likely I could see him just wanting to leave Jane behind and Kenny tries to convince Clementine to leave with him. But for your scenario I would have Clem pull out the gun shoot a few rounds in the air and tell everyone to calm the fuck down.
For anyone still following this discussion: what would you have done if Jane had confessed about AJ being alive, and Kenny still tried to kill her? I'm curious to know, and be honest now. Vote:
http://strawpoll.me/2780690
Lol I think if that was an option to shoot rounds in the air, most people would've done that, myself included. But we've gotta work with the crappy choices TT has given us haha.
And I don't know if Kenny would've believed Jane and stopped. He said, "Just imagining what she did to Alvie…everything just went black. By the time I got my head straight…it was too late."
If Jane did admit it, Kenny would go straight to AJ and get him out of the car and to safety. More than likely I could see him just wanting … moreto leave Jane behind and Kenny tries to convince Clementine to leave with him. But for your scenario I would have Clem pull out the gun shoot a few rounds in the air and tell everyone to calm the fuck down.
Nope we don't. They never say anywhere in the game that Wellington is actually in Michigan.
Sorry, misremembered that part. In any case, I said that just because I wanted to clarify that we do know a bit about its localization, that is just that Wellington is somewhere out of there. Near Michigan is, at least, something.
Kenny the bearded god
A least we agree on something.
(you're right; it probably does exist since we've heard so much about it, but no one bothered to tell Jane about those times it seems)
Yeah, well, that’s a bit odd… If Clementine side with Kenny, she should have at least gotten the option to try to convince Jane by telling her things like that.
just knowing that it's "near Michigan" really doesn't pinpoint the location at all,
Pinpoint, no. Of course. But close enough.
as that could mean it's in multiple states rather than just one state
Maybe is because I am Spanish, but I don´t get this part.
(even though Michigan itself is pretty darn big.)
And?
So as the location is so up in the air, it'd be pretty hard to find where it was exactly, and they'd only be able to find Wellington via trial and error, which could take forever, and thus be a very dangerous trip without proper resources. Therefore Jane knew it was a dangerous plan.
Is not so 'up in the air' as you seem to think, but yes, the trip was dangerous but it was hardly a dead sentence and going back to Howe´s was not any better.
Not to mention, just because Wellington exists and Edith seems nice doesn't mean it's a safe haven full of other people as nice as Edith. For all we know it could be a Terminus-like place that's worse than it seems (personally I doubt that, though I have hindsight while Jane didn't). But it's still a possibility.
They give supplies away, a rule made by their leader/leaders, so I don´t really think it’s plausible for them to be like Terminus. There is not benefit to give their supplies away.
(Really hoping they show us more of Wellington in Season 3.)
I hope that it becomes the main setting of Season 3.
I'm not blaming Jane for this; I'm blaming the writers. Survivor-Jane had already been stabbed once by Kenny as I've indicated before with these pics and was on the verge of death, and it would've made more sense for her to confess before being ultimately stabbed to death. Additionally why would Jane just die when her goal was to keep Clem away from Kenny in the first place, but Jane dying would just accomplish Clem staying with Kenny?
Well, she sees that Clementine has the gun near her, so she is counting on Clementine picking the gun up and shooting Kenny. It really doesn´t make sense for her not to coffees if you leave the gun on the ground, but if you pick it up I think it’s reasonable. Also, is possible that-seeing that Clementine is not going to help her and thinking that Kenny couldn´t stop no matter what she said-she hoped that her being killed could drive Clem to leave Kenny. It´s a stretch, thought, am I only trying to make sense of a situation that is probably more rushed writing that anything else.
In any case, I didn´t mean specifically when she gets stabbed, but before all of that. She had plenty of chances before that. When Kenny is on the ground, instead of getting on the top of him to punch him, she could have run to the car. When Kenny retreats after getting slashed in the stomach, she could have run to the car. When she has Kenny on the ground, screaming in pain has she tries to poke his eyes out, she could have stood up and run to the car.
If Jane had confessed about AJ like it would've made sense for her survivor character to, there would've been no big final choice at the end of this game.
Yes, there would have a big final choice. Leave with Jane or leave with Kenny or leave alone.
Kenny wasn't going to stop if Jane had admitted AJ was alive.
I honestly believe he could have stopped.
Kenny says, "Just imagining what she did to Alvie…everything just went black. By the time I got my head straight…it was too late."
And?
Honestly I think if they'd had Jane confess, that would've been better story-telling wise, as it brings the final decision down to a trust issue, which the whole season was supposed to be themed around: Do you trust Jane is telling the truth about AJ, or do you trust Kenny is doing the right thing by killing Jane, even after she says the baby is okay? I'd like to know--what would you have honestly done if that had played out, AlanSpencer?
Honestly, that whole scenario would not have played out in the first place. Kenny is just not like that. But if it happened, I trust Kenny far more that
Jane, so I could have looked away either way. And when they find out that the baby is alive… honestly, I could have gone with Kenny either way. What Jane did was just plain fucked up. But I couldn´t trust him as much as I do, of course. And he could stop behind my favorite character.
[Jane and Kenny are struggling on the ground. Clem has the option to pull Jane off of Kenny. If Clem doesn’t, Kenny pushes Jane off of him eventually, knocking her back to the ground. He gets up and advances on her.]
K: You’re fuckin’ DEAD!
J: Fuck you! [Jane slices Kenny’s stomach.]
C: Oh my god… [Kenny retreats outside]
K: Grr!
J: THIS IS ALL YOUR FUCKIN’ FAULT! [Jane pursues Kenny through the door]
Note that this dialogue takes place for everyone if you wait long enough before choosing a dialogue option; therefore this dialogue is not determinant. Like I said before, I don't think it's Jane's intention to kill Kenny here just yet.
Well, first of all, this is innacurate. Kenny says 'You are fucking dead' when he is on the ground and Jane is on the top of him, punching him. He doesn´t say anything when stands up, just charges at her.
Are you thinking that Jane says ‘This is all your fucking fault!’ means that she decided to kill Kenny at that moment, and before that she didn´t want to do him? I don´t think so. She wanted to leave him to die, she gave out of peaceful approaches, she hid the baby, she didn´t brother to explain herself in any way, and she says ‘I knew you would’
You argue that Jane clearly wants to kill Kenny since she slashed his stomach.
Actually, is not just that, but sure, let´s pretend that was my only reason.
She went for the knife before Kenny was even on his feet. It was unnecessary.
(You said, "I don´t see how the [Kenny making a death threat] 'six times' part is in anyway relevant to this discussion...." Death threats and the number of death threats are important because they help us understand why the characters may act/respond the way they do, as well as the
characters' emotions
Seeing that the majority of said threats are after Jane tries to kill him by slashing his stomach, I see no relevance in the number of death threats.
After he advances on her, she slashes his stomach, probably out of instinct or just to drive him back. Wouldn't you do the same if someone had just verbally threatened to kill you and was advancing on you while you were on the floor in a vulnerable position?
She went for the knife before Kenny was even on his feet. It was unnecessary. It was a clear move to kill him, not instinct. And if she really wanted to just drive him back, she could have stood up instead of going for the knife.
Also note that Jane could've been pretty handy with that knife. It could very well be that she made the stomach slash shallow on purpose because she didn't want to kill Kenny just then, but just drive him back.
If she he really wanted to just drive him back, she could have stood up instead of going for the knife.
Jane gave Kenny a chance to go peacefully. From the above dialogue, Jane would kill him if and only if he didn't leave. So, Jane wasn't sure if he would leave or not. If Jane wasn't sure if he would leave or not as indicated just above, how could she possibly be sure Kenny would stay for certain and kill her? Therefore, Jane didn't know that Kenny would kill her from the start.
She was sure he could not leave, as sure as she was that he could try to kill her. She says that
Jane: You are going to see him for who he really is
And
Jane: I… knew you would.
Well letting Ben "stay behind and fucking rot" isn't the same as actively killing him. Compare that to:
Kenny: "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
Ehh I think it's pretty clear Kenny wants to kill her here. The wording is much more direct; rather than just leaving someone behind to die, it seems Kenny wants to be the one directly responsible for Jane's death.
Kenny: "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
This is not enough "evidence" to murder somebody.
Is enough to lash out in anger, and being slashed in the stomach is enough “evidence” to try murder somebody.
You need something stronger than a "reasonable conclusion" that's really more a "huge assumption" to commit murder and take someone else's life.
Is enough to lash out in anger, and being slashed in the stomach is enough “evidence” to try murder somebody. Kenny was dead wrong about Jane killing AJ.
Besides, you also need something stronger that suspicion to hide a baby and try to kill his caretaker, but I don´t see you complaining about that.
Kenny was dead wrong in saying that Jane killed AJ.
And?
All of these quotes are a lot more direct than, "just stay behind and fucking rot."
Kenny: "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
This is direct.
Also apparently before (though this part was obviously changed), Kenny was supposed to have smashed Jane's face into the glass, and probably kill her, as indicated by the "Clem....help...." dialogue, which are Jane's last words in the finished game before Kenny stabs her.
In the interest of keeping this more legible and organized and keeping my sanity I'm dividing this reply up into sections. Also, AlanSpencer, please try to consider my points as whole paragraphs rather than as individual sentences as the details I bring up work together to form an argument.
The Likelihood of finding Wellington
as that could mean [Wellington's] in multiple states rather than just one state
Maybe is because I am Spanish, but I don´t get this part.
What I was saying here is that, because we know Wellington wasn't in Michigan but only near Michigan, the possible places Wellington could be has expanded from the single state of Michigan (Michigan is one of the 50 states of the United States of America. In Spanish, I believe the word is "estado," as in 'Michigan is one of "los estados" in "Los Estados Unidos." ' Does that make sense?) So Wellington couldn't just be in one state, but in multiple states, (multiple "estados"). There are multiple locations where Wellington could be.
Let me break out some math here to estimate how long it could take Clem/Kenny to find Wellington. To keep things simple (we'll have to use somewhat crude assumptions), let's say that Wellington was in Michigan. Just the state of Michigan is about 250,494 square kilometers or about 96,716 square miles. Google says the average hiking speed is about 6 kilometers/hour at the fastest or about 3.7 miles/hour. Assuming Clem/Kenny could see 5 km or 3.1 miles (the curve of the Earth's surface) in either direction to spot Wellington while walking, they'd cover about (5km/direction * 2 directions of North and South * 6 km/hr) = 60 square km/hr at the fastest, or 23.2 sq miles/hr. Soo, assuming they could walk about 12 hours a day, it'd take them about (250,494 sq km * 1 hr/60 sq km) = 4174.9 hrs to search all of Michigan at the fastest, or (4174.9 hrs * 1 day/12 hrs * 1 week/7 days) = 49 weeks!!! to search all of Michigan for Wellington at the fastest. That's almost one year. And that's just one state--just the state of Michigan. There's also Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana (and even Canada!) that share borders with Michigan. Keep in mind that the timing would be similar if they had to go all around the border of Michigan, looking through these states and Canada, rather than going through the state of Michigan. And I didn't even include the time it would take them to run into things like snow, walkers, people, rivers, etc. Finding Wellington in 9 days doesn't make a lick of sense if you don't know where it is. Compare that to Howe's. They knew exactly where Howe's was, and could've gotten there in a day if they had a car, or 9 days directly walking there. Jane was being absolutely appropriately logical about her choice here, in terms of knowledge of the location of the best place to go.
BTW if I did the math wrong, feel free to correct me.
Why didn't Jane confess about AJ?
Well, she sees that Clementine has the gun near her, so she is counting on Clementine picking the gun up and shooting Kenny.
Are you talking about when Jane says, "Clem...help..."? If you mean that Jane was planning to have Clem kill Kenny just to have Kenny dead, your quote above is just an assumption made by you, assuming the worst in Jane. In my opinion, Jane is trying to kill Kenny off by herself. She asks Clem for help when it's obvious to Jane that Jane's going to be killed by Kenny and she's going to die. Who wouldn't ask for help then? Not to mention it also makes sense for her survivor-character to ask for help when she's going to die.
It really doesn´t make sense for her not to coffees if you leave the gun on the ground, but if you pick it up I think it’s reasonable.
Yum "coffees." But are you implying that she'd only confess about AJ just to get Clem to kill Kenny? You're just making unfair assumptions again. Jane should've confessed about AJ either way.
Also, is possible that-seeing that Clementine is not going to help her and thinking that Kenny couldn´t stop no matter what she said-she hoped that her being killed could drive Clem to leave Kenny. It´s a stretch, thought, am I only trying to make sense of a situation that is probably more rushed writing that anything else.
Yeah I agree; this is a big stretch. I reallly don't think Jane was thinking that at all; I think she'd prefer to live lol.
In any case, I didn´t mean specifically when she gets stabbed, but before all of that. She had plenty of chances before that.
But I'm not talking about Jane confessing before she gets stabbed.
And yes, she had plenty of chances to confess, but that wasn't her plan right then. I guess I'll explain her motives again: Jane's plan (which was stupid) going into the fight was to separate Kenny from Clem, either by asking him to go, or by Jane killing Kenny if it came to that. She was manipulative here in that she lied about AJ. Her whole plan was to see Kenny's reaction to her lie, but she was hoping Kenny would just leave and that he wouldn't do something as extreme as try to kill her. She didn't confess about AJ at first because that wasn't her plan to, of course. She was trying to show how dangerous Kenny could be just because of a lie. But it makes no sense for her to not confess about AJ when she's inches from death.
If Jane had confessed about AJ like it would've made sense for her survivor character to, there would've been no big final choice at the end of this game.
Yes, there would have a big final choice. Leave with Jane or leave with Kenny or leave alone.
I was talking about keeping everything else the same. If just that detail of having Jane confess was added, I think that an even higher majority of players would've shot Kenny if Kenny had continued to kill her, and this majority would've been too high for TT's liking. I set up a strawpoll on this thread asking about it but alas only 6 people have taken it haha. Probably because everyone's sick of this debate already lol though I don't blame them. Wish more people would answer though.
I honestly believe he could have stopped.
Honestly, that whole scenario would not have played out in the first place. Kenny is just not like that.
The reason I brought up this quote: "Just imagining what she did to Alvie…everything just went black. By the time I got my head straight…it was too late," is to show how Kenny lost his head and probably wouldn't have stopped trying to kill Jane, even if Jane had admitted AJ was okay. By saying, "everything just went black," Kenny's saying he wasn't listening to reason. It seems nothing would've stopped him from killing Jane then and there, not even a confession from Jane, which Kenny probably wouldn't have even believed to be true.
At what point in the fight did they want to KILL each other?
Well, first of all, this is innacurate. Kenny says 'You are fucking dead' when he is on the ground and Jane is on the top of him, punching him. He doesn´t say anything when stands up, just charges at her.
Mm doesn't really matter. He still declared a death threat to Jane, and I think this is enough for Jane to want to defend herself. Jane never knew that Kenny can supposedly give false death threats like he did with Ben. It doesn't matter if Kenny said "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!” to Ben when Kenny didn't mean to actually kill him, because Jane wasn't there to witness that. In fact the only times Jane's seen Kenny make a death threat was on Arvo after the gunfight, when he clearly did want to kill Arvo with a gun pointed at his head. Then there was Carver, whose face Kenny smashed in. Why wouldn't Jane be afraid he would kill her when he's advancing on her, and he'd just said, "You're fuckin' DEAD!" to?
She wanted to leave him to die
Oh ho ho. But "leaving him to die" isn't the same thing as actively killing him, is it? Just like you were arguing about Kenny before when you quoted Kenny, "You can stay behind and fucking rot!"
You're being hypocritical here. Jane wanted to leave Kenny behind just like Kenny wanted to leave Ben behind. But Jane didn't want to kill Kenny at this point, just like Kenny didn't want to kill Ben at that point.
she says ‘I knew you would’
Like I said before, she says, "I knew you would" because she did know he would kill her, but she didn't know from the very beginning.
She went for the knife before Kenny was even on his feet. It was unnecessary. It was a clear move to kill him, not instinct.
No, it wasn't unnecessary to Jane. Kenny was glaring at Jane as he came at her, even if he wasn't on his feet. He had just said, "You're fuckin' DEAD!" and Jane had never heard Kenny threaten her or anyone like that before. She did the only thing she could think to do out of instinct and self-preservation.
And if she really wanted to just drive him back, she could have stood up instead of going for the knife.
No after going back and watching again, I don't think she had time to stand up because Kenny was in the way. She was pretty much flat on her back and then the next second Kenny was hovering over her. The knife was much more accessible to her than the action of standing up.
She was sure he could not leave, as sure as she was that he could try to kill her. She says that
Jane: You are going to see him for who he really is
You can't extrapolate that Jane thinks Kenny will kill her or that Jane thought that Kenny wouldn't leave from the beginning just from this. Jane meant that Clem would see how irrational and dangerous Kenny could be.
Is enough to lash out in anger, and being slashed in the stomach is enough “evidence” to try murder somebody.
You're not being clear here and I don't know what you mean. Either you're saying:
1."Being slashed in the stomach is enough 'evidence' for Kenny to try to murder somebody."
to which I say: No it's not. That's the equivalent of saying you can murder someone because they punched you in the face and drew blood. The slash was shown to be non-lethal as we saw in Kenny's endings.
or you're saying
2."Being slashed in the stomach is enough 'evidence' that Jane was trying to murder Kenny."
to which I say: Again, no it's not. The slash was non-lethal, and the equivalent of punching someone in the face. It doesn't mean she was trying to kill him.
Besides, you also need something stronger that suspicion to hide a baby and try to kill his caretaker, but I don´t see you complaining about that.
I'm defending Jane in these posts lol. But that doesn't mean I don't think her plan was stupid, as I did state multiple times before.
Kenny was dead wrong in saying that Jane killed AJ.
And?
I brought this up to show that Kenny was not justified in murdering Jane, because Jane in fact did not kill AJ, just like she had said.
All of these quotes are a lot more direct than, "just stay behind and fucking rot."
Kenny: "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
This is direct.
Okay. Thank you for arguing my point for me. So as you say that Kenny's death threats on Ben are in fact direct and not indirect, indicating that Kenny actually means to kill Ben, then his death threats on Jane in the final fight such as, "I’m going to kill HER!" are clearly even more direct, indicating that he will indeed kill her. And he does kill her if he's not stopped.
Nope we don't. They never say anywhere in the game that Wellington is actually in Michigan.
Sorry, misremembered that part. In any c… morease, I said that just because I wanted to clarify that we do know a bit about its localization, that is just that Wellington is somewhere out of there. Near Michigan is, at least, something.
Kenny the bearded god
A least we agree on something.
(you're right; it probably does exist since we've heard so much about it, but no one bothered to tell Jane about those times it seems)
Yeah, well, that’s a bit odd… If Clementine side with Kenny, she should have at least gotten the option to try to convince Jane by telling her things like that.
just knowing that it's "near Michigan" really doesn't pinpoint the location at all,
Pinpoint, no. Of course. But close enough.
as that could mean it's in multiple states rather than just one state
Maybe is because I am… [view original content]
What I was saying here is that, because we know Wellington wasn't in Michigan but only near Michigan, the possible places Wellington could be has expanded from the single state of Michigan (Michigan is one of the 50 states of the United States of America. In Spanish, I believe the word is "estado," as in 'Michigan is one of "los estados" in "Los Estados Unidos." ' Does that make sense?) So Wellington couldn't just be in one state, but in multiple states, (multiple "estados"). There are multiple locations where Wellington could be. Let me break out some math here. To keep things simple (we'll have to use somewhat crude assumptions), let's say that Wellington was in Michigan. Just the state of Michigan is about 250,494 square kilometers or about 96,716 square miles. Google says the average hiking speed is about 6 kilometers/hour at the fastest or about 3.7 miles/hour. Assuming Clem/Kenny could see 5 km or 3.1 miles (the curve of the Earth's surface) in either direction to spot Wellington while walking, they'd cover about (5km/direction * 2 directions of North and South * 6 km/hr) = 60 square km/hr at the fastest, or 23.2 sq miles/hr. Soo, assuming they could walk about 12 hours a day, it'd take them about (250,494 sq km * 1 hr/60 sq km) = 4174.9 hrs to search all of Michigan at the fastest, or (4174.9 hrs * 1 day/12 hrs * 1 week/7 days) = 49 weeks!!! to search all of Michigan for Wellington at the fastest. That's almost one year. And that's just one state--just the state of Michigan. There's also Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana (and even Canada!) that share borders with Michigan. Keep in mind that the timing would be similar if they had to go all around the border of Michigan, looking through these states and Canada, rather than going through the state of Michigan. And I didn't even include the time it would take them to run into things like snow, walkers, people, rivers, etc. Finding Wellington in 9 days doesn't make a lick of sense if you don't know where it is. Compare that to Howe's. They knew exactly where Howe's was, and could've gotten there in a day if they had a car, or 9 days directly walking there. Jane was being absolutely appropriately logical about her choice here, in terms of knowledge of the location of the best place to go.
Yeah, it makes sense now. Sorry about that.
I agree. Finding Wellington in 9 nine days is very, very improbable. And yes, Jane plan´s was better-well, I think staying at Howe´s is suicidal, but as far as the ‘go back and get supplies part’ it sounded perfect to me.
Are you talking about when Jane says, "Clem...help..."? If you mean that Jane was planning to have Clem kill Kenny just to have Kenny dead, your quote above is just an assumption made by you, assuming the worst in Jane. In my opinion, Jane is trying to kill Kenny off by herself. She asks Clem for help when it's obvious to Jane that Jane's going to be killed by Kenny and she's going to die. Who wouldn't ask for help then? Not to mention it also makes sense for her survivor-character to ask for help when she's going to die.
No, I didn´t mean that. I mean that she didn´t see a need to confess because she thought Clem was going to help her. And yes, I agree that Jane is trying to kill Kenny by herself, but I don´t think that is that strange for her to consider that the fight may not got as well as she wanted, and that she thought she could count on Clem for backup.
Yum "coffees."
Didn´t spell check. Sorry.
But are you implying that she'd only confess about AJ just to get Clem to kill Kenny? You're just making unfair assumptions again.
I am saying that Jane not confessing if Clem does not pick up the gun is a huge out of character moment, but that Jane doesn´t confess when Clem picks up the gun and she thinks Clem is going to help her is reasonable, in my opinion.
Jane should've confessed about AJ either way.
Yes. It makes sense for a hardened survivor character, in the verge of death, to try anything to not die. I am just saying that is far for implausible, in the case where you do pick up the gun.
And yes, she had plenty of chances to confess, but that wasn't her plan right then. I guess I'll explain her motives again: Jane's plan (which was stupid) going into the fight was to separate Kenny from Clem, either by asking him to go, or by Jane killing Kenny if it came to that.
I don´t think somebody as smart as Jane would think Kenny could just go, honestly. She manipulated Troy pretty easily, and she acts like a pro when Troy appears when they are putting the walker’s guts. She actually sounded genuine- to me- in asking Troy to leave with her, together… before she shot his dick off, of course, but the point is still there. And yes, Troy was dumb, but Jane played him like a fiddle and that shows how easy doing that is for her. Is hard for me to believe that somebody like her, after a few days with Kenny, could think anything else but that Kenny would try to kill her.
She was manipulative here in that she lied about AJ. Her whole plan was to see Kenny's reaction to her lie, but she was hoping Kenny would just leave and that he wouldn't do something as extreme as try to kill her. She didn't confess about AJ at first because that wasn't her plan to, of course. She was trying to show how dangerous Kenny could be just because of a lie. But it makes no sense for her to not confess about AJ when she's inches from death.
Even if we accept that she hoped Kenny would not try to kill her, there is one clear opportunity to run to the car when Kenny´s motives are more that clear for both of them. When they both are on the ground, Kenny reaches for Jane´s knife, she stops him and tries to poke his eyes out. She has in there, on the ground, helpless and she doesn´t stand up and take advantage of the opportunity to run to the car and end it all peacefully. And yes, it doesn´t make sense for her not to confess when she is stabbed.
The reason I brought up this quote: "Just imagining what she did to Alvie…everything just went black. By the time I got my head straight…it was too late," is to show how Kenny lost his head and probably wouldn't have stopped trying to kill Jane, even if Jane had admitted AJ was okay. By saying, "everything just went black," Kenny's saying he wasn't listening to reason. It seems nothing would've stopped him from killing Jane then and there, not even a confession from Jane, which Kenny probably wouldn't have even believed to be true.
Of course Kenny was mad, but that doesn´t mean Kenny couldn´t have stopped. If there was a chance, just a chance, that AJ was alive and well he could have taken it. I don´t think that Kenny´s quote disapproves that. By saying everything just went black he is just saying that he was in rage. There is no reason to assume he couldn´t listen to Jane, if she confessed. But yes, he probably couldn´t not have believe her, but he could have wanted to believe it. So he could have took the chance.
Mm doesn't really matter. He still declared a death threat to Jane, and I think this is enough for Jane to want to defend herself.
I think that pushing her against the window was enough of a reason to defend herself, but okay.
Jane never knew that Kenny can supposedly give false death threats like he did with Ben. It doesn't matter if Kenny said "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!” to Ben when Kenny didn't mean to actually kill him, because Jane wasn't there to witness that.
I brought out the “false death threats” not because of Jane would think or not, just to say that Kenny was not aiming to kill Jane before she slashed his stomach. Is was all about Kenny´s intentions.
In fact the only times Jane's seen Kenny make a death threat was on Arvo after the gunfight, when he clearly did want to kill Arvo with a gun pointed at his head. Then there was Carver, whose face Kenny smashed in. Why wouldn't Jane be afraid he would kill her when he's advancing on her, and he'd just said, "You're fuckin' DEAD!" to?
Yes, of course she was afraid he was going to kill her. So what?
Oh ho ho. But "leaving him to die" isn't the same thing as actively killing him, is it? Just like you were arguing about Kenny before when you quoted Kenny, "You can stay behind and fucking rot!"
You're being hypocritical here. Jane wanted to leave Kenny behind just like Kenny wanted to leave Ben behind. But Jane didn't want to kill Kenny at this point, just like Kenny didn't want to kill Ben at that point.
It was an easy way to get Kenny out of the picture-doesn´t mean she couldn´t have killing him herself if she had the chance. Is just like the Ben and Kenny situation. She doesn´t killing him, but when the opportunity shows itself she is willing to do it or that Clementine does it. Just like Kenny “asks” Lee to drop Ben in Crawford. The difference being that Kenny doesn´t try to kill Ben if Lee doesn´t drop him, and ends up forgiving him and sympathizing with him.
Like I said before, she says, "I knew you would" because she did know he would kill her, but she didn't know from the very beginning.
Well, I went back to that quote because, to me, she clearly went him for the very beginning. Just like when she says “You are going to see him for who he really is” and asks Clem to “stay out of it”. She knew the fight would happen, and that it could only be a fight to dead.
No, it wasn't unnecessary to Jane. Kenny was glaring at Jane as he came at her, even if he wasn't on his feet. He had just said, "You're fuckin' DEAD!" and Jane had never heard Kenny threaten her or anyone like that before. She did the only thing she could think to do out of instinct and self-preservation. No after going back and watching again, I don't think she had time to stand up because Kenny was in the way. She was pretty much flat on her back and then the next second Kenny was hovering over her. The knife was much more accessible to her than the action of standing up.
She had many options, besides going for the knife and tries to kill Kenny. She could have slashed anywhere except his stomach, she could have knocked his legs for under him like Molly did back in season 1, she could have tried standing up, and even if Kenny reached her first Clementine was there to back her up, she could have confessed right at that moment which could have guaranteed Clementine´s help, regardless of what you think Kenny could do. She had many options, but she chose to continue a fight that could only end in one of them being killed and in the most potentially lethal way possible.
You can't extrapolate that Jane thinks Kenny will kill her or that Jane thought that Kenny wouldn't leave from the beginning just from this. Jane meant that Clem would see how irrational and dangerous Kenny could be.
Saying something like: “You are going to see him for who he really is” implies that she was expecting a violent reaction, not that Kenny could leave just like that. And I already explained why I think that Jane knew Kenny would try to kill her for the very begging.
You're not being clear here and I don't know what you mean. Either you're saying:
1."Being slashed in the stomach is enough 'evidence' for Kenny to try to murder somebody."
to which I say: No it's not. That's the equivalent of saying you can murder someone because they punched you in the face and drew blood. The slash was shown to be non-lethal as we saw in Kenny's endings.
or you're saying
2."Being slashed in the stomach is enough 'evidence' that Jane was trying to murder Kenny."
to which I say: Again, no it's not. The slash was non-lethal, and the equivalent of punching someone in the face. It doesn't mean she was trying to kill him.
I am saying both. That Jane´s slash was not lethal doesn´t mean anything, she was aiming to spill his guts and simply missed. Kenny knows he survived the slash because of luck, and that to survive he could have to end the fight himself.
I brought this up to show that Kenny was not justified in murdering Jane, because Jane in fact did not kill AJ, just like she had said.
That she engineered the fight and let him become attempted murder, despite that she would have stopped it if she wanted at any time is enough justification to kill her.
Okay. Thank you for arguing my point for me. So as you say that Kenny's death threats on Ben are in fact direct and not indirect, indicating that Kenny actually means to kill Ben, then his death threats on Jane in the final fight such as, "I’m going to kill HER!" are clearly even more direct, indicating that he will indeed kill her. And he does kill her if he's not stopped.
I saying that Kenny´s threats to Ben are rather direct, but I also saying that he calms down in the very same sentence. There is a difference from:
Kenny: You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
To
Kenny: You can stay behind and fucking rot!
The first one is clearly direct, but the second one is indirect. So I think that Kenny´s threats held no meaning until he saw himself cornered when Jane nearly killed him.
To anyone confused as to where the above post came from, it's a continuation of the debate from here: http://www.telltalegames.com/community… more/discussion/comment/1656752/#Comment_1656752 but we decided to move here as it was clearly a Jane vs. Kenny debate.
In the interest of keeping this more legible and organized and keeping my sanity I'm dividing this reply up into sections. Also, AlanSpencer, please try to consider my points as whole paragraphs rather than as individual sentences as the details I bring up work together to form an argument.
The Likelihood of finding Wellington
as that could mean [Wellington's] in multiple states rather than just one state
Maybe is because I am Spanish, but I don´t get this part.
What I was saying here is that, because we know Wellington wasn't in Michigan but only near Michigan, the possible places Wellington could be has expanded from the single state of Michigan (Michigan is on… [view original content]
Comments
An interesting interpretation, I like it.
It feels like Carver "survived" to the very end, at least his way of thinking did.
episode 4
When you walk through the woods, learn "new" tricks and eventually find Sarah and Luke
The observation Deck. If you choose to go there first, you get additional dialogues.
While Jane is leaving
Episode 5
After she comes back
At the campfire scene
Inside the house after you wake up
After you go back inside the house
Did you forget all these scenes?
What the endings mean?
Jane endings - you're gonna see Jane die.
Kenny endings - you're gonna see Kenny die.
Alone ending - you won't see any of them die.
In Season 3.
Flagged as trolling.
Nah, i dont defend Carver that much. I think he was a bit too violent.
Lee was stupid walking through the herd, thats all. He knew he was going to die, but if he had died because of the herd, then everything he did so far would have been pointless. I never said that Lee going to Marsh house was stupid.
Oke what is the trolling then ? I gave my opinion
Oke you are flagged as trolling now too because when i say something you don't want to read you report it....
Kenny was dangerous for Jane because Jane wanted to be the boss or take clem with her
If someone says "i like this ending more", i dont really care. If they say "its safer to be with Kenny" or its "morale thing to let Kenny murder someone", of course im going to state how they are wrong.
And that is your opinion, you can't force people to agree with you but refuse to see it their way
And I think she'll be safer with Kenny and i'll keep on thinking it so no matter what lies you tell and what ifs and maybes and i could bla bla bla
and that suicide mission was wellington what was there and a safe place is you get in and howes had the doors open and could have been robbed clean or taken over
I'm done with your dumb Jane is the holy grale BS
and how many minutes is that in rep 5 she's longer with Kenny in this season
Oh wait i was done because i'm happy with the outcome of my game
Childish provocation.
That was the reason i flagged you for trolling.
Well you clearly are too biased to be objective.
Well mods can see if you do that with your phone or log out and log in with your other account.
And how is that trolling, because you don't like it ?
You have the biggest mouth on this forum but if someone talks back you report them lmao
See this is exactly what I'm talking about. Do you see me out here, calling whatever you create utter garbage, mocking you for simple interpretations and such? No. All I came out here to do was have a good time, and I honestly feel so attacked right now. Okay seriously all joking aside, I simply explained my interpretations and I'm not saying that THIS is the definite meaning of the endings. I was simply explaining what I believed each ending signify. You say I'm biased, okay good now shot it. How am I biased? Who am I biased towards?
If you're saying I dislike Kenny. Matter of fact is I don't, he's a great character and a man who has been deprived of everything he loved other than Clementine and AJ and thus will go to extreme lengths to make sure they are safe. Do I regret shooting him? Yes, yes I do indeed. But it was my choice, it was the heat of the moment and it was my mistake.
Also the "Implying that trying to stop a murder EVEN AT THE EXPENSE ONE OF HER CLOSEST FRIENDS means that Clem is "becoming Carver"
Now I never, never ever said she was becoming Carver. I said she was LIKE Carver. In terms of following Carvers teachings even if she didn't mean to do so. "Killing one in order to save many is part of survival" or the fact that Carver wanted to kill Kenny and put him down. Or the fact Carver ends up "handing off" his safe camp to Clementine in the end, and the fact Clementine is left alone with a survivalist. I'm not saying Clementine is an evil person like Carver, but her actions portray her to be like Carver when it comes down to instincts, that is my opinion.
Of course she was longer with Kenny. Kenny was around her 2 episodes longer.
Oke lol
If anyone thinks Jane isn't the right choise you'll go in attack mode ... but i'm the biased one ... yeah ....... right
I have old nokia which doesnt even have internet connection.
You keep accusing me of making other accaunts, just so i could thumbs up my comments. You are simply trolling.
Why would i even give a fuck about something as pointless as thumbs up?
2 episodes ?
How about almost a whole season longer , you forgot that?
They never really talked in season 1, so i dont count that in.
Never claimed so. Do you even read any of my replies, or is your reading comprehension skills just so poor?
There are bigger steps. Letting someone die because they won't save themselves is smaller than say beating someone to death with a pipe.
They are not using alternate accounts, so please stop provoking arguments.
Merged a new thread and hid a few offending comments from public view. Please try to keep discussion civil as usual.
Sorry bro. I felt like you were attacking seventy some odd percent of the people that played the game for doing what they felt was morally right. That's why I raged on you.
My sincere apologies.
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Any rational/cold/logical character would have been my favorite. Molly was in season 1, Jane was in season 2. Carver could have been also, but he was too violent.
I never attacked her? I simply pointed out how she was wrong about suicide always being emotional response.
That doesnt really make any sense.
Does anyone here prefer if the 'Pizza vs Ice Cream' choice was Kenny or Luke?
Here's how I would want it to go down:
Jane is the one who falls in the ice, Luke would take Bonnie's role and tell Clem to help or cover her, either way Luke or Clem falls in with Jane, and if you don't break the ice when Jane's drowning, Luke would come out where he or Clem fell in, so Luke and Kenny start to work together better and become good friends, after the scene with Kenny at the truck when he tells her to go check on AJ, Clem and Luke have a scene where they talk about things they regret, after that the scene at the truck, the group talks about where they're headed, Mike and Bonnie thinks they should head to Texas, Kenny thinks they should head to Wellington, and Luke thinks they should head to the town or Howe's, after that, Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo try to leave with all the supplies and the truck, after Clem gets shot, Bonnie wants to stay and help while Mike urges Bonnie to leave, then you have the Lee scene, after Clem wakes up, Kenny and Luke want to talk about where they're going, and since Kenny wants to pick up some gas, and then zombies come and Luke tells Clem to drive and find Kenny, they crash, Clem has the scene walking in the snow shooting zombies, then she finds AJ in the gas station, then she finds Luke and Kenny struggling to to hold off the zombies trying to kill them, and then comes the choice to either save Kenny or Luke,
If Kenny is saved:
Kenny gets the same ending, but Christa is at Wellington, but they can only take Clem and AJ, so Kenny has his speech about staying at Wellington
Clem can either choose to stay at Wellington with Christa and AJ, or leave Wellington with Kenny and AJ
If Luke is saved:
Luke and Clem have a talk about whether to head to the town or back to Howe's,
If you head to Howe's: Pretty much the same thing happens, only you meet the 400 Days people and decide to rebuild Howe's
If you head to the town: They decide to hold up in the church, and find Lily and choose to make her leave or stay
Or you can leave and choose neither of them and get the same Alone ending
[removed]
Can't believe people are still talking about Jane and Kenny.
Is there something new in the forum about the topic?
kennyextremism
No im not? You really do have lousy reading comprehension skills.
Yes, for the most cases. I was talking about spesific cases where its not based on emotions, but rational decision.
The dialogue let me understand that Reggie has kept fucking up that that was final mistake he can make.
I never wanted Kenny dead simply because i disliked him, i just wanted Clem away from him.
Kenny didnt kill him or leave him be, he kept beating him. He seems to enjoy hurting those who have wronged him, which i consider sick. Bullet to the head doenst hurt, beating someone constantly hurts. Kenny killed the Strangers family indirectly. Was the Stranger not bad guy for kidnapping Clementine to keep her safe (his opinion). Only one who is biased here is you.
I would go with Luke to the town everytime
this is my new fictional ending 
Just a reminder that I'd like you all to behave, please. Some of you are blatantly disobeying the rules for civil discussion. I'll flag what I come across, but in addition to that, other users can help by flagging posts.
this post tho ^^ 100% on pointttt! i couldnt believe anyone would even shoot Kenny..it gives you the stats at the end of the game, and it said only 12.8% didnt shoot him, i was in shock.
For anyone still following this discussion: what would you have done if Jane had confessed about AJ being alive, and Kenny still tried to kill her? I'm curious to know, and be honest now. Vote:
http://strawpoll.me/2780690
If Jane did admit it, Kenny would go straight to AJ and get him out of the car and to safety. More than likely I could see him just wanting to leave Jane behind and Kenny tries to convince Clementine to leave with him. But for your scenario I would have Clem pull out the gun shoot a few rounds in the air and tell everyone to calm the fuck down.
Lol I think if that was an option to shoot rounds in the air, most people would've done that, myself included. But we've gotta work with the crappy choices TT has given us haha.
And I don't know if Kenny would've believed Jane and stopped. He said, "Just imagining what she did to Alvie…everything just went black. By the time I got my head straight…it was too late."
Sorry, misremembered that part. In any case, I said that just because I wanted to clarify that we do know a bit about its localization, that is just that Wellington is somewhere out of there. Near Michigan is, at least, something.
A least we agree on something.
Yeah, well, that’s a bit odd… If Clementine side with Kenny, she should have at least gotten the option to try to convince Jane by telling her things like that.
Pinpoint, no. Of course. But close enough.
Maybe is because I am Spanish, but I don´t get this part.
And?
Is not so 'up in the air' as you seem to think, but yes, the trip was dangerous but it was hardly a dead sentence and going back to Howe´s was not any better.
They give supplies away, a rule made by their leader/leaders, so I don´t really think it’s plausible for them to be like Terminus. There is not benefit to give their supplies away.
I hope that it becomes the main setting of Season 3.
Well, she sees that Clementine has the gun near her, so she is counting on Clementine picking the gun up and shooting Kenny. It really doesn´t make sense for her not to coffees if you leave the gun on the ground, but if you pick it up I think it’s reasonable. Also, is possible that-seeing that Clementine is not going to help her and thinking that Kenny couldn´t stop no matter what she said-she hoped that her being killed could drive Clem to leave Kenny. It´s a stretch, thought, am I only trying to make sense of a situation that is probably more rushed writing that anything else.
In any case, I didn´t mean specifically when she gets stabbed, but before all of that. She had plenty of chances before that. When Kenny is on the ground, instead of getting on the top of him to punch him, she could have run to the car. When Kenny retreats after getting slashed in the stomach, she could have run to the car. When she has Kenny on the ground, screaming in pain has she tries to poke his eyes out, she could have stood up and run to the car.
Yes, there would have a big final choice. Leave with Jane or leave with Kenny or leave alone.
I honestly believe he could have stopped.
And?
Honestly, that whole scenario would not have played out in the first place. Kenny is just not like that. But if it happened, I trust Kenny far more that
Jane, so I could have looked away either way. And when they find out that the baby is alive… honestly, I could have gone with Kenny either way. What Jane did was just plain fucked up. But I couldn´t trust him as much as I do, of course. And he could stop behind my favorite character.
Well, first of all, this is innacurate. Kenny says 'You are fucking dead' when he is on the ground and Jane is on the top of him, punching him. He doesn´t say anything when stands up, just charges at her.
Are you thinking that Jane says ‘This is all your fucking fault!’ means that she decided to kill Kenny at that moment, and before that she didn´t want to do him? I don´t think so. She wanted to leave him to die, she gave out of peaceful approaches, she hid the baby, she didn´t brother to explain herself in any way, and she says ‘I knew you would’
Actually, is not just that, but sure, let´s pretend that was my only reason.
She went for the knife before Kenny was even on his feet. It was unnecessary.
characters' emotions
Seeing that the majority of said threats are after Jane tries to kill him by slashing his stomach, I see no relevance in the number of death threats.
She went for the knife before Kenny was even on his feet. It was unnecessary. It was a clear move to kill him, not instinct. And if she really wanted to just drive him back, she could have stood up instead of going for the knife.
If she he really wanted to just drive him back, she could have stood up instead of going for the knife.
She was sure he could not leave, as sure as she was that he could try to kill her. She says that
Jane: You are going to see him for who he really is
And
Jane: I… knew you would.
Kenny: "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
Kenny: "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
Is enough to lash out in anger, and being slashed in the stomach is enough “evidence” to try murder somebody.
Is enough to lash out in anger, and being slashed in the stomach is enough “evidence” to try murder somebody. Kenny was dead wrong about Jane killing AJ.
Besides, you also need something stronger that suspicion to hide a baby and try to kill his caretaker, but I don´t see you complaining about that.
And?
Kenny: "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
This is direct.
And?
To anyone confused as to where the above post came from, it's a continuation of the debate from here: http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/comment/1656752/#Comment_1656752 but we decided to move here as it was clearly a Jane vs. Kenny debate.
In the interest of keeping this more legible and organized and keeping my sanity I'm dividing this reply up into sections. Also, AlanSpencer, please try to consider my points as whole paragraphs rather than as individual sentences as the details I bring up work together to form an argument.
The Likelihood of finding Wellington
What I was saying here is that, because we know Wellington wasn't in Michigan but only near Michigan, the possible places Wellington could be has expanded from the single state of Michigan (Michigan is one of the 50 states of the United States of America. In Spanish, I believe the word is "estado," as in 'Michigan is one of "los estados" in "Los Estados Unidos." ' Does that make sense?) So Wellington couldn't just be in one state, but in multiple states, (multiple "estados"). There are multiple locations where Wellington could be.
Let me break out some math here to estimate how long it could take Clem/Kenny to find Wellington. To keep things simple (we'll have to use somewhat crude assumptions), let's say that Wellington was in Michigan. Just the state of Michigan is about 250,494 square kilometers or about 96,716 square miles. Google says the average hiking speed is about 6 kilometers/hour at the fastest or about 3.7 miles/hour. Assuming Clem/Kenny could see 5 km or 3.1 miles (the curve of the Earth's surface) in either direction to spot Wellington while walking, they'd cover about (5km/direction * 2 directions of North and South * 6 km/hr) = 60 square km/hr at the fastest, or 23.2 sq miles/hr. Soo, assuming they could walk about 12 hours a day, it'd take them about (250,494 sq km * 1 hr/60 sq km) = 4174.9 hrs to search all of Michigan at the fastest, or (4174.9 hrs * 1 day/12 hrs * 1 week/7 days) = 49 weeks!!! to search all of Michigan for Wellington at the fastest. That's almost one year. And that's just one state--just the state of Michigan. There's also Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana (and even Canada!) that share borders with Michigan. Keep in mind that the timing would be similar if they had to go all around the border of Michigan, looking through these states and Canada, rather than going through the state of Michigan. And I didn't even include the time it would take them to run into things like snow, walkers, people, rivers, etc. Finding Wellington in 9 days doesn't make a lick of sense if you don't know where it is. Compare that to Howe's. They knew exactly where Howe's was, and could've gotten there in a day if they had a car, or 9 days directly walking there. Jane was being absolutely appropriately logical about her choice here, in terms of knowledge of the location of the best place to go.
BTW if I did the math wrong, feel free to correct me.
Why didn't Jane confess about AJ?
Are you talking about when Jane says, "Clem...help..."? If you mean that Jane was planning to have Clem kill Kenny just to have Kenny dead, your quote above is just an assumption made by you, assuming the worst in Jane. In my opinion, Jane is trying to kill Kenny off by herself. She asks Clem for help when it's obvious to Jane that Jane's going to be killed by Kenny and she's going to die. Who wouldn't ask for help then? Not to mention it also makes sense for her survivor-character to ask for help when she's going to die.
Yum "coffees." But are you implying that she'd only confess about AJ just to get Clem to kill Kenny? You're just making unfair assumptions again. Jane should've confessed about AJ either way.
Yeah I agree; this is a big stretch. I reallly don't think Jane was thinking that at all; I think she'd prefer to live lol.
But I'm not talking about Jane confessing before she gets stabbed.
And yes, she had plenty of chances to confess, but that wasn't her plan right then. I guess I'll explain her motives again: Jane's plan (which was stupid) going into the fight was to separate Kenny from Clem, either by asking him to go, or by Jane killing Kenny if it came to that. She was manipulative here in that she lied about AJ. Her whole plan was to see Kenny's reaction to her lie, but she was hoping Kenny would just leave and that he wouldn't do something as extreme as try to kill her. She didn't confess about AJ at first because that wasn't her plan to, of course. She was trying to show how dangerous Kenny could be just because of a lie. But it makes no sense for her to not confess about AJ when she's inches from death.
I was talking about keeping everything else the same. If just that detail of having Jane confess was added, I think that an even higher majority of players would've shot Kenny if Kenny had continued to kill her, and this majority would've been too high for TT's liking. I set up a strawpoll on this thread asking about it but alas only 6 people have taken it haha. Probably because everyone's sick of this debate already lol though I don't blame them. Wish more people would answer though.
The reason I brought up this quote: "Just imagining what she did to Alvie…everything just went black. By the time I got my head straight…it was too late," is to show how Kenny lost his head and probably wouldn't have stopped trying to kill Jane, even if Jane had admitted AJ was okay. By saying, "everything just went black," Kenny's saying he wasn't listening to reason. It seems nothing would've stopped him from killing Jane then and there, not even a confession from Jane, which Kenny probably wouldn't have even believed to be true.
At what point in the fight did they want to KILL each other?
Mm doesn't really matter. He still declared a death threat to Jane, and I think this is enough for Jane to want to defend herself. Jane never knew that Kenny can supposedly give false death threats like he did with Ben. It doesn't matter if Kenny said "You little pissant! You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!” to Ben when Kenny didn't mean to actually kill him, because Jane wasn't there to witness that. In fact the only times Jane's seen Kenny make a death threat was on Arvo after the gunfight, when he clearly did want to kill Arvo with a gun pointed at his head. Then there was Carver, whose face Kenny smashed in. Why wouldn't Jane be afraid he would kill her when he's advancing on her, and he'd just said, "You're fuckin' DEAD!" to?
Oh ho ho. But "leaving him to die" isn't the same thing as actively killing him, is it? Just like you were arguing about Kenny before when you quoted Kenny, "You can stay behind and fucking rot!"
You're being hypocritical here. Jane wanted to leave Kenny behind just like Kenny wanted to leave Ben behind. But Jane didn't want to kill Kenny at this point, just like Kenny didn't want to kill Ben at that point.
Like I said before, she says, "I knew you would" because she did know he would kill her, but she didn't know from the very beginning.
No, it wasn't unnecessary to Jane. Kenny was glaring at Jane as he came at her, even if he wasn't on his feet. He had just said, "You're fuckin' DEAD!" and Jane had never heard Kenny threaten her or anyone like that before. She did the only thing she could think to do out of instinct and self-preservation.
No after going back and watching again, I don't think she had time to stand up because Kenny was in the way. She was pretty much flat on her back and then the next second Kenny was hovering over her. The knife was much more accessible to her than the action of standing up.
You can't extrapolate that Jane thinks Kenny will kill her or that Jane thought that Kenny wouldn't leave from the beginning just from this. Jane meant that Clem would see how irrational and dangerous Kenny could be.
You're not being clear here and I don't know what you mean. Either you're saying:
1."Being slashed in the stomach is enough 'evidence' for Kenny to try to murder somebody."
to which I say: No it's not. That's the equivalent of saying you can murder someone because they punched you in the face and drew blood. The slash was shown to be non-lethal as we saw in Kenny's endings.
or you're saying
2."Being slashed in the stomach is enough 'evidence' that Jane was trying to murder Kenny."
to which I say: Again, no it's not. The slash was non-lethal, and the equivalent of punching someone in the face. It doesn't mean she was trying to kill him.
I'm defending Jane in these posts lol. But that doesn't mean I don't think her plan was stupid, as I did state multiple times before.
I brought this up to show that Kenny was not justified in murdering Jane, because Jane in fact did not kill AJ, just like she had said.
Okay. Thank you for arguing my point for me. So as you say that Kenny's death threats on Ben are in fact direct and not indirect, indicating that Kenny actually means to kill Ben, then his death threats on Jane in the final fight such as, "I’m going to kill HER!" are clearly even more direct, indicating that he will indeed kill her. And he does kill her if he's not stopped.
Yeah, it makes sense now. Sorry about that.
I agree. Finding Wellington in 9 nine days is very, very improbable. And yes, Jane plan´s was better-well, I think staying at Howe´s is suicidal, but as far as the ‘go back and get supplies part’ it sounded perfect to me.
No, I didn´t mean that. I mean that she didn´t see a need to confess because she thought Clem was going to help her. And yes, I agree that Jane is trying to kill Kenny by herself, but I don´t think that is that strange for her to consider that the fight may not got as well as she wanted, and that she thought she could count on Clem for backup.
Didn´t spell check. Sorry.
I am saying that Jane not confessing if Clem does not pick up the gun is a huge out of character moment, but that Jane doesn´t confess when Clem picks up the gun and she thinks Clem is going to help her is reasonable, in my opinion.
Yes. It makes sense for a hardened survivor character, in the verge of death, to try anything to not die. I am just saying that is far for implausible, in the case where you do pick up the gun.
I don´t think somebody as smart as Jane would think Kenny could just go, honestly. She manipulated Troy pretty easily, and she acts like a pro when Troy appears when they are putting the walker’s guts. She actually sounded genuine- to me- in asking Troy to leave with her, together… before she shot his dick off, of course, but the point is still there. And yes, Troy was dumb, but Jane played him like a fiddle and that shows how easy doing that is for her. Is hard for me to believe that somebody like her, after a few days with Kenny, could think anything else but that Kenny would try to kill her.
Even if we accept that she hoped Kenny would not try to kill her, there is one clear opportunity to run to the car when Kenny´s motives are more that clear for both of them. When they both are on the ground, Kenny reaches for Jane´s knife, she stops him and tries to poke his eyes out. She has in there, on the ground, helpless and she doesn´t stand up and take advantage of the opportunity to run to the car and end it all peacefully. And yes, it doesn´t make sense for her not to confess when she is stabbed.
Of course Kenny was mad, but that doesn´t mean Kenny couldn´t have stopped. If there was a chance, just a chance, that AJ was alive and well he could have taken it. I don´t think that Kenny´s quote disapproves that. By saying everything just went black he is just saying that he was in rage. There is no reason to assume he couldn´t listen to Jane, if she confessed. But yes, he probably couldn´t not have believe her, but he could have wanted to believe it. So he could have took the chance.
I think that pushing her against the window was enough of a reason to defend herself, but okay.
I brought out the “false death threats” not because of Jane would think or not, just to say that Kenny was not aiming to kill Jane before she slashed his stomach. Is was all about Kenny´s intentions.
Yes, of course she was afraid he was going to kill her. So what?
It was an easy way to get Kenny out of the picture-doesn´t mean she couldn´t have killing him herself if she had the chance. Is just like the Ben and Kenny situation. She doesn´t killing him, but when the opportunity shows itself she is willing to do it or that Clementine does it. Just like Kenny “asks” Lee to drop Ben in Crawford. The difference being that Kenny doesn´t try to kill Ben if Lee doesn´t drop him, and ends up forgiving him and sympathizing with him.
Well, I went back to that quote because, to me, she clearly went him for the very beginning. Just like when she says “You are going to see him for who he really is” and asks Clem to “stay out of it”. She knew the fight would happen, and that it could only be a fight to dead.
She had many options, besides going for the knife and tries to kill Kenny. She could have slashed anywhere except his stomach, she could have knocked his legs for under him like Molly did back in season 1, she could have tried standing up, and even if Kenny reached her first Clementine was there to back her up, she could have confessed right at that moment which could have guaranteed Clementine´s help, regardless of what you think Kenny could do. She had many options, but she chose to continue a fight that could only end in one of them being killed and in the most potentially lethal way possible.
Saying something like: “You are going to see him for who he really is” implies that she was expecting a violent reaction, not that Kenny could leave just like that. And I already explained why I think that Jane knew Kenny would try to kill her for the very begging.
I am saying both. That Jane´s slash was not lethal doesn´t mean anything, she was aiming to spill his guts and simply missed. Kenny knows he survived the slash because of luck, and that to survive he could have to end the fight himself.
That she engineered the fight and let him become attempted murder, despite that she would have stopped it if she wanted at any time is enough justification to kill her.
I saying that Kenny´s threats to Ben are rather direct, but I also saying that he calms down in the very same sentence. There is a difference from:
Kenny: You're fucking dead, do you hear me?! Dead!”
To
Kenny: You can stay behind and fucking rot!
The first one is clearly direct, but the second one is indirect. So I think that Kenny´s threats held no meaning until he saw himself cornered when Jane nearly killed him.
?Kenny will remember that.