I don't want, that Kenny and Jane quarrel and fight.
I am sad when Kenny dies or I'm also sad when some people kill Kenny, because we haven't seen Kenny long time. It was very exciting to see Kenny again. I have really missed Kenny. I wouldn't have thought that he survived.
I don't like so much Jane and there is not a close relationship between Clementine and Jane, but that's stupid that Kenny or Jane must die. This decision is difficult.
But whatever happens... I trust Kenny more, because he sacrificed himself for Clementine and AJ. I didn't stay in Wellington. I stay with Kenny and leave Wellington.
Season 2 - Episode 5 is shit.
I don't want, that Kenny and Jane quarrel and fight.
I am sad when Kenny dies or I'm also sad when some … morepeople kill Kenny, because we haven't seen Kenny long time. It was very exciting to see Kenny again. I have really missed Kenny. I wouldn't have thought that he survived.
I don't like so much Jane and there is not a close relationship between Clementine and Jane, but that's stupid that Kenny or Jane must die. This decision is difficult.
But whatever happens... I trust Kenny more, because he sacrificed himself for Clementine and AJ. I didn't stay in Wellington. I stay with Kenny and leave Wellington.
So, you're saying that the game should vastly limit player agency because of the character the player happens to be controlling?
If that's the case, why do games that are "realistic" allow the PC to soak up so much damage and just revive themselves? The problem with your assumption is that if the argument were the case, why not just have Clementine auto-dialogue everything? It would create a much more focused narrative and then give the player a stronger connection to the scenarios and characters.
The reason games like The Walking Dead, Fallout, Mass Effect, and L.A. Noire give gamers agency is because then they can create their own narrative that is specially tailored to them. For example: I really dislike Kenny, yet the narrative was trying (quite unsuccessfully) to get me to like and understand his motives. By the end, the game might as well just became a movie. Everything felt disjointed because I didn't want Clementine to follow Kenny, but the game did.
I would argue that, despite us playing as Clem in S2, it's still Clementine being Clementine, and we have to choose the options that she is … morecapable of, not necessarily what we want from her.
Now, from this Kenny situation, we're looking at it from our perspective, but not from Clem's. For us, Kenny may have been a total douche bag, and some of us may end up hating the guy, but let's look at him from Clem's point of view. He is Duck's father, and Katjaa's husband. For Clem, Duck was the only childhood friend around her age group, the only other kid she had to share time with. We know they got along, despite the pranks and name-calling. Katjaa, on the other hand, looked out for Clem when Lee couldn't, acting like a mother-figure in the motor inn. She's there with Clem by the train, as well as in the barn with Maybelle. We know Clem looked up to her, as she waited for Katjaa's permission to pet the cow.
For Clem, Kenny is more than just a … [view original content]
I don't have a problem with this, me being a Kenny fan and all. If you want to talk about forced relationships however, let's look at AJ. I don't like the character, but just about every single character does. I don't understand why they don't give us the option to hate on it or let others deal with it.
Multiple times Clem was told "Go talk to him. He's your friend Clem." No matter what you do, Clementine will cry when/if Kenny dies. You can choose to tell people like Luke "I never liked him. He was a jerk." But still you have to go with him. Still you have to deal with Kenny's tragedy arc V. 2.0, instead we aren't Lee this time, we are Clementine, who never seemed to have a meaningful conversation with Kenny in Season 1, yet we are pushed over and over again with characters insisting Kenny is Clementines friend.
This is incorrect. If what you wrote was true, we wouldn't have constant options to badmouth him or side with other people.
This entire thread is a non-issue.
I don't have a problem with this, me being a Kenny fan and all. If you want to talk about forced relationships however, let's look at AJ. I … moredon't like the character, but just about every single character does. I don't understand why they don't give us the option to hate on it or let others deal with it.
You sound just like Winston, no I'm not fucking kidding you. Is there a problem with me disliking a character? Everybody dislikes and likes characters.
You sound just like Winston, no I'm not fucking kidding you. Is there a problem with me disliking a character? Everybody dislikes and likes characters.
Give me some proper, solid evidence of Clem holding back her feelings for Kenny in season 1, then we'll talk
That's just a ridiculous request. Its irrelevant anyway.
he picture doesn't count because it's more of a tribute to Kenny's family than Kenny himself considering Kat and Duck died.
Speculation. I personally think the drawing shows that she did have some level of care for the man.
The "Duck is sick " line doesn't count because it's concern for Duck than for Kenny
I'm not sure anyone has ever used that as an example.
But it's like not he's suddenly shows up and acts like Clem was always his daughter and suddenly cares about her like a daughter
This whole "daughter" idea is of your own making.
That's the problem with Kenny, there's really no concrete, solid evidence that the two had a friendship bond in the first season
We don't need evidence. We simply need to use common sense. If you live with someone for 3 months you're going to have a relationship of some kind. You aren't just going to be indifferent.
Wrong, she interacted with Katjaa
What, one time in the first episode of season one? Maybe once while in the barn during episode two? Nothing noteworthy.
Kenny though? Nope, not even a mention of interaction.
I'm not even going to address the other examples because they aren't noteworthy. None of this matters. You're still ignoring the fact that you can care about someone and not openly show it.
"You can care about someone and not openly show it."
Give me some proper, solid evidence of Clem holding back her feelings for Kenny in s… moreeason 1, then we'll talk. The picture doesn't count because it's more of a tribute to Kenny's family than Kenny himself considering Kat and Duck died. The "Duck is sick " line doesn't count because it's concern for Duck than for Kenny
"even Vernon cared about Clementine, to the extent that he wanted to take her with him. He hadn't once interacted with her on screen before expressing this desire."
But it's like not he's suddenly shows up and acts like Clem was always his daughter and suddenly cares about her like a daughter, That's the problem with Kenny, there's really no concrete, solid evidence that the two had a friendship bond in the first season, there was nothing there at all, and even after the time skip, and the times you weren't around, there's no evidence that there was* likely *any bond b… [view original content]
It is a human in the game with a name and other characters interact with it, it's a character. Just accept that I have an opinion that you disagree with.
Um, I need evidence if Telltale want me to buy this relationship and make it credible and have it make sense, otherwise it's forced and counting more on assumptions and fan theory s, and that doesn't work. Clem still interacted with Kat, She NEVER interacts with Kenny, not in the slightest in S1. The Kenny and Clem relationship is a hugely important emotional element in S2, a little bit of bonding and visible interaction, or maybe even a mention of Kenny and Clem doing something together in S1 maybe could have helped, but that NEVER HAPPENS and the S2 relationship is based on something we never saw and something that wasn't there. I'm ignoring your excuse because it doesn't hold any water, there's no real solid evidence that Clem was holding back her feelings for Kenny, that's your own making.
Give me some proper, solid evidence of Clem holding back her feelings for Kenny in season 1, then we'll talk
That's just a ridiculou… mores request. Its irrelevant anyway.
he picture doesn't count because it's more of a tribute to Kenny's family than Kenny himself considering Kat and Duck died.
Speculation. I personally think the drawing shows that she did have some level of care for the man.
The "Duck is sick " line doesn't count because it's concern for Duck than for Kenny
I'm not sure anyone has ever used that as an example.
But it's like not he's suddenly shows up and acts like Clem was always his daughter and suddenly cares about her like a daughter
This whole "daughter" idea is of your own making.
That's the problem with Kenny, there's really no concrete, solid evidence that the two had a friendship bond in the first season
We don't need evidence. We simply need to use common sen… [view original content]
He could have easily shot Ben and come to safety, but instead he stays there and "dies". It was uncessesary "sacrifice" and not heroic, just… more stupid.
But honestly, i cant use logic or reasoning for that scene anymore, since the writers fucked it up so badly with season 2 Kenny.
she can state it because it is up to the player whether clem knew kenny or not why would telltale include BOTH options? if clem truly never spoke to kenny once then they would have only included the option to say i don't really know him that well plus she most likely had off screen interactions with him
Clementine Knew Kenny for being part of their group... She didnt know Kenny as she can state. Jane talked with Clementine in those 3 days as much as Kenny talked with her in 2 years.
when people are angry they say things they don't actually mean.... you should know that especially after episode 4 but you most likely don't get that cause you are just being a blind kenny hater
when people are angry they say things they don't actually mean.... you should know that especially after episode 4 but you most likely don't get that cause you are just being a blind kenny hater
fine let me rephrase that for you everyone yes that does include kenny says things and does things they don't mean when they are angry and upset that is part of being a human you might as well hate nearly everyone who has done something to hurt someone in twd if you are gonna have that attitude that includes nick, bonnie, mike , rick, jane and a few others
fine let me rephrase that for you everyone yes that does include kenny says things and does things they don't mean when they are angry and u… morepset that is part of being a human you might as well hate nearly everyone who has done something to hurt someone in twd if you are gonna have that attitude that includes nick, bonnie, mike , rick, jane and a few others
Um, I need evidence if Telltale want me to buy this relationship and make it credible and have it make sense
It's kind of your own fault if you want to blindly deny the actual story. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the likelihood of bonds being formed after living and surviving with one another after three months is honestly pretty bizarre.
I guess Clementine shouldn't have given a shit about Omid dying? What about losing Christa? Why would Clementine be interested in finding and reuniting with Christa? I mean, there was no evidence of the two bonding together during all the time skips, so clearly that means there should not have been any sort of notable relationship between the two... right? Why does Clementine refer to Christa as her friend? So, so baffling. (Alright, I'll stop with the sarcasm... just trying to make a point.)
Clem still interacted with Kat, She NEVER interacts with Kenny, not in the slightest in S1.
I'm not even going to argue the point because it ultimately does not matter.. for reasons explained above.
The Kenny and Clem relationship is a hugely important emotional element in S2, a little bit of bonding and visible interaction, or maybe even a mention of Kenny and Clem doing something together in S1 maybe could have helped, but that NEVER HAPPENS and the S2 relationship is based on something we never saw
Subjective viewpoint. I thought their relationship was fine without any of that. Pretty much no one visibly bonded with Clementine in season one outside of Lee himself. The story centered around the Lee-Clementine relationship, not the Clementine-Everyone relationship. It doesn't matter that the season two relationship is based on something we never saw (in terms of a 1on1 personal connection).
something that wasn't there.
You don't know that they didn't have some level of a relationship in season one. There is no way for you to know that. Telltale implies that there was. Common sense implies that there was. Why are people denying these things? People aren't even trying to be objective about this.
I'm ignoring your excuse because it doesn't hold any water, there's no real solid evidence that Clem was holding back her feelings for Kenny, that's your own making.
I have never said that Clem was "holding back" her feelings. Not once. You can care about someone and not visibly express that. It has nothing to do with holding anything back.
All of this is besides the point anyway. There is no clear evidence that there was a relationship between the two in season one, but it is certainly very plausible that there was... opposed to the implausibility of there not being a relationship at all (again, these two were living and surviving with one another for MONTHS). Like the relationship or not, but it is 100% valid.
Um, I need evidence if Telltale want me to buy this relationship and make it credible and have it make sense, otherwise it's forced and coun… moreting more on assumptions and fan theory s, and that doesn't work. Clem still interacted with Kat, She NEVER interacts with Kenny, not in the slightest in S1. The Kenny and Clem relationship is a hugely important emotional element in S2, a little bit of bonding and visible interaction, or maybe even a mention of Kenny and Clem doing something together in S1 maybe could have helped, but that NEVER HAPPENS and the S2 relationship is based on something we never saw and something that wasn't there. I'm ignoring your excuse because it doesn't hold any water, there's no real solid evidence that Clem was holding back her feelings for Kenny, that's your own making.
I guess TellTale made it an offscreen relationship, but yeah it felt forced because of that. Also Kenny isn't the only one with a forced friendship either, Jane was forced on Clementine too.
I'm refusing it because there is simply no evidence of it that Kenny and Clem formed a bond, I didn't see it, and Telltale didn't even try to give me any hints or a mention that Kenny and Clem formed a bond in S1, it's plausible, BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE and i'm not basing an emotional attachment on assumptions and plausibility, it doesn't work like that in fiction, when there is zero evidence. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why would Clem refer to Christa as her friend? Probably because the two ACTUALLY TALKED TO EACH OTHER in S1 episode 3, and besides a 16-month time skip really didn't work well at all as far being wasted potential for a relationship that had build up. Of course Telltale implies that there was, because they know Kenny and Clem is such a popular pairing, that they'll say there was one, but they won't actually show it because they don't have any evidence to back it up. Common sense doesn't apply, considering again, there's no evidence. Clem and Christa not bonding after the timeskip, it was only a short scene and really like I said, wasted potential.
Belan, you seem more and more like you are in too much love with Kenny's character and are just more comfortable in believing there was a relationship and bonding rather than knowing there was a relationship in S1.
Um, I need evidence if Telltale want me to buy this relationship and make it credible and have it make sense
It's kind of your own f… moreault if you want to blindly deny the actual story. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the likelihood of bonds being formed after living and surviving with one another after three months is honestly pretty bizarre.
I guess Clementine shouldn't have given a shit about Omid dying? What about losing Christa? Why would Clementine be interested in finding and reuniting with Christa? I mean, there was no evidence of the two bonding together during all the time skips, so clearly that means there should not have been any sort of notable relationship between the two... right? Why does Clementine refer to Christa as her friend? So, so baffling. (Alright, I'll stop with the sarcasm... just trying to make a point.)
Clem still interacted with Kat, She NEVER interacts with Kenny, not in the slightest in S… [view original content]
So what you're saying is that all throughout Season 1 Clementine was a really stupid braindead child unaware of her surroundings that never … morecared about anyone but herself and Lee. You're literally saying that all of her interactions between Clem and Duck and Katjaa play no role in her outlook of Kenny?
So you're saying that because she was around Kenny, but never actually actively talked with Kenny, she HAS to like Kenny? Kenny later even wanted to murder/leave behind her friend Ben.
You are also forgetting the Kenny that Clem had in mind for 2 years was someone who died heroically trying to save Christa or Ben.
Saving Christa sure was heroic and selfless act from Kenny, probably the best thing he did in the entire game. "Saving" Ben? He went there to check out what happened (lucky that he survived the fall) and killed him out of mercy and then magically survived. (imo, he also seemed a bit suicidal, although i cant see … [view original content]
Like it's been said many times, they didnt talk much in season 1. She talked with Kenny only 3 times as far as we know.
Kenny wanted to murder/leave her friend, Ben. Cant really think Clementine would consider Kenny the best guy after this.
Kenny wanted to leave Omid behind and Clementine spent 16 months with Christa. Christa and Kenny werent the best friends, so i cant possibly expect her to talk too nicely about Kenny to Clementine. (Kenny's "death" is determinant, so he cant be treated as hero)
She can admit that she doesnt actually know Kenny that well and say he is a jerk (most likely Clems personal opinion, considering everything he said/did over the game.)
She definitely had talked with Kenny before, but clearly they didnt know each other. Only thing which united them was Lee, and no matter how huge prick Kenny was to Lee or Clementine, their "friendship" stays the same in season 2.
Um, I need evidence if Telltale want me to buy this relationship and make it credible and have it make sense
It's kind of your own f… moreault if you want to blindly deny the actual story. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the likelihood of bonds being formed after living and surviving with one another after three months is honestly pretty bizarre.
I guess Clementine shouldn't have given a shit about Omid dying? What about losing Christa? Why would Clementine be interested in finding and reuniting with Christa? I mean, there was no evidence of the two bonding together during all the time skips, so clearly that means there should not have been any sort of notable relationship between the two... right? Why does Clementine refer to Christa as her friend? So, so baffling. (Alright, I'll stop with the sarcasm... just trying to make a point.)
Clem still interacted with Kat, She NEVER interacts with Kenny, not in the slightest in S… [view original content]
Why change the subject, instead of talking about current one?
And Clementine or Kenny is the one that starts the firefight, by shooting Rebecca in already delicate situation.
Arvo's motives for trying to rob our group is determinate anyway, so no point blaming Jane for it.
Its not up to us to decide Clementine's history...
They could have aswell put a character we never met and said "you had a good friendship in this period, which you never saw". Maybe Clementine's friend from school or some shit. How are people supposed to care about Kenny - Clementine friendship, if they have no information about them interacting with each other? This forced friendship was just a favor to Kenny fans.
she can state it because it is up to the player whether clem knew kenny or not why would telltale include BOTH options? if clem truly never … morespoke to kenny once then they would have only included the option to say i don't really know him that well plus she most likely had off screen interactions with him
Jane relationship was forced just as much. Most relationships in Season 2 were if you look at them all. Only ones that developed was the Sar… moreah one, because it showed we could or could not be a good friend to her, and it was totally up to us. Rebecca was mean, then suddenly became nice and cared about us. Alvin was gone before we could really get to know him. Nick was our choice to actually save him or let him die. Luke was kinder to us then anyone next to Pete.
I won't debate any of your points because I have no examples to prove that they are close or were close at the motel. I'm just gonna say that even if Clem and Kenny never directly interacted much in Season 1, they still shared a bond because they were part of the same group that went through the first months of societal collapse. Even if no actual bonding happened, when Kenny and Clem see each other for the first time in 2 years, it shows that they had a bond as being in a that same… [view original content]
didn't see it, and Telltale didn't even try to give me any hints or a mention that Kenny and Clem formed a bond in S1, it's plausible, BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE
Alright, but this doesn't matter at all then. If you're admitting that the relationship is plausible (it is) then where is the actual problem in the relationship picking up in season two? You don't have to like it, but that doesn't mean the relationship is out of place. The fact that we didn't see much on screen evidence in season one is completely irrelevant to the legitimacy of an existing relationship going into season two. That's really all there is to it. I don't see what there is to argue about.
i'm not basing an emotional attachment on assumptions and plausibility, it doesn't work like that in fiction. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Please don't ask me "Why is this so hard for you to understand" when you literally just did nothing to back up what you said.
You're openly dismissing plausibility for your supposed understanding of how fictional writing works (as if there was any sort of set standard for how that works). Basically you're refusing to look at the situation realistically. In what universe does that support your argument?
Why would Clem refer to Christa as her friend? Probably because the two ACTUALLY TALKED TO EACH OTHER in S1 episode 3
You're splitting hairs and entirely missing the point. They talked to each other a little, sure. That goes without saying. Did they have an established on screen relationship? No. Nothing noteworthy.
and besides a 16-month time skip really didn't work well at all as far being wasted potential for a relationship that had build up.
What build up? There was no more build up in season one/ the very start of season two than there was with Kenny and Clem in season one. And even if you want to split hairs and somehow argue that there was, we're talking about an absolutely minuscule amount.
The point of all of this is the fact that Clementine didn't have any sort of visibly strong on screen relationship with Christa and yet was genuinely concerned in finding her, and also referred to her as her friend multiple times. Why does no one question this? Probably because it makes sense considering that had over a year of bonding time. It doesn't matter if we saw the relationship developing on screen or not. Clementine cared about Christa, and it is completely 100% understandable why she would given the circumstances. That is all that matters. All of this applies to Kenny, obviously.
Common sense doesn't apply, considering again, there's no evidence.
Common sense applies for reasons that I have already stated in this post (and even before this post..). You even said yourself that it was plausible. How can something be plausible and yet be lacking in common sense? That makes no sense.
Clem and Christa not bonding after the timeskip, it was only a short scene and really like I said, wasted potential.
The reasons why are completely irrelevant. The fact remains that they had little on screen bonding time, and yet Clementine clearly cared about her.
Belan, you seem more and more like you are in too much love with Kenny's character and are just more comfortable in believing there was a relationship and bonding rather than knowing there was a relationship in S1.
I know there was a relationship in season one, because that only makes sense to the story. Obviously if they canonically had no relationship in season one they wouldn't have been so thrilled to be reunited in season two. I'm arguing about the legitimacy of the story and the realistic outcomes of the story.
I'm refusing it because there is simply no evidence of it that Kenny and Clem formed a bond, I didn't see it, and Telltale didn't even try t… moreo give me any hints or a mention that Kenny and Clem formed a bond in S1, it's plausible, BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE and i'm not basing an emotional attachment on assumptions and plausibility, it doesn't work like that in fiction, when there is zero evidence. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why would Clem refer to Christa as her friend? Probably because the two ACTUALLY TALKED TO EACH OTHER in S1 episode 3, and besides a 16-month time skip really didn't work well at all as far being wasted potential for a relationship that had build up. Of course Telltale implies that there was, because they know Kenny and Clem is such a popular pairing, that they'll say there was one, but they won't actually show it because they don't have any evidence to back it up. Common sense doesn't apply, considering again… [view original content]
Like it's been said many times, they didnt talk much in season 1. She talked with Kenny only 3 times as far as we know
Irrelevant. We're talking about two secondary characters with realistically having the ability to have an offscreen relationship. Nothing to debate here.
Kenny wanted to murder/leave her friend, Ben. Cant really think Clementine would consider Kenny the best guy after this.
Clementine never saw Kenny give Lee the little "let him go" glance during the bell tower scene, so the whole murder thing is kind of out the window. We don't know how Clementine felt towards Kenny at all about this issue, so you telling me what I can and can't think is kind of ridiculous.
Kenny wanted to leave Omid behind and Clementine spent 16 months with Christa. Christa and Kenny werent the best friends, so i cant possibly expect her to talk too nicely about Kenny to Clementine.
100% guess work.
And no, we don't know that Kenny wanted to leave Omid behind. He was in a pissy mood less than 24 hours after his son died and his wife committed suicide. He offered a blunt/uncarring suggestion to a hypothetical. I doubt he even meant it (only Telltale knows obviously..)
She can admit that she doesnt actually know Kenny that well and say he is a jerk (most likely Clems personal opinion, considering everything he said/done over the game.)
This is such a counterpoint to the argument that the relationship is forced that I don't even know if I want to take you up on this. I mean, this point alone works to invalidate the purpose behind everything else that you had said.
I'll try to explain this very simple Belan.
* Like it's been said many times, they didnt talk much in season 1. She talked with Kenny o… morenly 3 times as far as we know.
* Kenny wanted to murder/leave her friend, Ben. Cant really think Clementine would consider Kenny the best guy after this.
* Kenny wanted to leave Omid behind and Clementine spent 16 months with Christa. Christa and Kenny werent the best friends, so i cant possibly expect her to talk too nicely about Kenny to Clementine. (Kenny's "death" is determinant, so he cant be treated as hero)
* She can admit that she doesnt actually know Kenny that well and say he is a jerk (most likely Clems personal opinion, considering everything he said/did over the game.)
She definitely had talked with Kenny before, but clearly they didnt know each other. Only thing which united them was Lee, and no matter how huge prick Kenny was to Lee or Clementine, their "friendship" stays the same in season 2.
I'll try to explain this very simple Belan.
Yeah... simple is about the right word for it..
Like it's been said many times, th… moreey didnt talk much in season 1. She talked with Kenny only 3 times as far as we know
Irrelevant. We're talking about two secondary characters with realistically having the ability to have an offscreen relationship. Nothing to debate here.
Kenny wanted to murder/leave her friend, Ben. Cant really think Clementine would consider Kenny the best guy after this.
Clementine never saw Kenny give Lee the little "let him go" glance during the bell tower scene, so the whole murder thing is kind of out the window. We don't know how Clementine felt towards Kenny at all about this issue, so you telling me what I can and can't think is kind of ridiculous.
Kenny wanted to leave Omid behind and Clementine spent 16 months with Christa. Christa and Kenny werent the best friends, so i cant possib… [view original content]
Jane should have killed Arvo when they first met then the gunfight would never happened if Kenny was there when Clem first met Arvo he would have killed him. You cant take any chances in ZA
Why change the subject, instead of talking about current one?
And Clementine or Kenny is the one that starts the firefight, by shooting R… moreebecca in already delicate situation.
Arvo's motives for trying to rob our group is determinate anyway, so no point blaming Jane for it.
Comments
Season 2 - Episode 5 is shit.
I don't want, that Kenny and Jane quarrel and fight.
I am sad when Kenny dies or I'm also sad when some people kill Kenny, because we haven't seen Kenny long time. It was very exciting to see Kenny again. I have really missed Kenny. I wouldn't have thought that he survived.
I don't like so much Jane and there is not a close relationship between Clementine and Jane, but that's stupid that Kenny or Jane must die. This decision is difficult.
But whatever happens... I trust Kenny more, because he sacrificed himself for Clementine and AJ. I didn't stay in Wellington. I stay with Kenny and leave Wellington.
Episode 1 & 2 are shit. episode 5 was shit. Too much shit in one season.
So, you're saying that the game should vastly limit player agency because of the character the player happens to be controlling?
If that's the case, why do games that are "realistic" allow the PC to soak up so much damage and just revive themselves? The problem with your assumption is that if the argument were the case, why not just have Clementine auto-dialogue everything? It would create a much more focused narrative and then give the player a stronger connection to the scenarios and characters.
The reason games like The Walking Dead, Fallout, Mass Effect, and L.A. Noire give gamers agency is because then they can create their own narrative that is specially tailored to them. For example: I really dislike Kenny, yet the narrative was trying (quite unsuccessfully) to get me to like and understand his motives. By the end, the game might as well just became a movie. Everything felt disjointed because I didn't want Clementine to follow Kenny, but the game did.
I don't have a problem with this, me being a Kenny fan and all. If you want to talk about forced relationships however, let's look at AJ. I don't like the character, but just about every single character does. I don't understand why they don't give us the option to hate on it or let others deal with it.
Multiple times Clem was told "Go talk to him. He's your friend Clem." No matter what you do, Clementine will cry when/if Kenny dies. You can choose to tell people like Luke "I never liked him. He was a jerk." But still you have to go with him. Still you have to deal with Kenny's tragedy arc V. 2.0, instead we aren't Lee this time, we are Clementine, who never seemed to have a meaningful conversation with Kenny in Season 1, yet we are pushed over and over again with characters insisting Kenny is Clementines friend.
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Not really. You could've been flat out rude to Jane as well.
You don't like Kenny, lol.
And you wasn't very exciting to see Kenny again, right?
I like Kenny.
You sound just like Winston, no I'm not fucking kidding you. Is there a problem with me disliking a character? Everybody dislikes and likes characters.
Its not a character its a frigging BABY!
Jesus Christ, were you punched in the face as a child or what?
That's just a ridiculous request. Its irrelevant anyway.
Speculation. I personally think the drawing shows that she did have some level of care for the man.
I'm not sure anyone has ever used that as an example.
This whole "daughter" idea is of your own making.
We don't need evidence. We simply need to use common sense. If you live with someone for 3 months you're going to have a relationship of some kind. You aren't just going to be indifferent.
What, one time in the first episode of season one? Maybe once while in the barn during episode two? Nothing noteworthy.
I'm not even going to address the other examples because they aren't noteworthy. None of this matters. You're still ignoring the fact that you can care about someone and not openly show it.
You're just mindfucking yourself dude. You "liked it first playthrough" as you said. I'm pretty sure you liked it a lot first playthrough.
Being negative all the time can stain your memories and make you feel differently about things you used to love (works for people too).
If you're now hating the game when you used to love it, that's your own bad.
It is a human in the game with a name and other characters interact with it, it's a character. Just accept that I have an opinion that you disagree with.
I would. Forever.
Um, I need evidence if Telltale want me to buy this relationship and make it credible and have it make sense, otherwise it's forced and counting more on assumptions and fan theory s, and that doesn't work. Clem still interacted with Kat, She NEVER interacts with Kenny, not in the slightest in S1. The Kenny and Clem relationship is a hugely important emotional element in S2, a little bit of bonding and visible interaction, or maybe even a mention of Kenny and Clem doing something together in S1 maybe could have helped, but that NEVER HAPPENS and the S2 relationship is based on something we never saw and something that wasn't there. I'm ignoring your excuse because it doesn't hold any water, there's no real solid evidence that Clem was holding back her feelings for Kenny, that's your own making.
Jane causes the gunfight in the first place as well.
Nothing heroic about saving her from a mess she put Clem in.
No one can use logic or reasoning for you anymore either.
Of course it's not like he was under any kind of shit back then. He just said it out of rage for no reason.
Yup.
yeah and that gives him the right to treat people like shit..
everyone is suffering in the ZA , he is not special....
You know, there is a way to talk to people without bringing out the insults, right?
she can state it because it is up to the player whether clem knew kenny or not why would telltale include BOTH options? if clem truly never spoke to kenny once then they would have only included the option to say i don't really know him that well plus she most likely had off screen interactions with him
when people are angry they say things they don't actually mean.... you should know that especially after episode 4 but you most likely don't get that cause you are just being a blind kenny hater
yeah but kenny say things that hurt and do things that hurt, and that my friend no sorry can erase
fine let me rephrase that for you everyone yes that does include kenny says things and does things they don't mean when they are angry and upset that is part of being a human you might as well hate nearly everyone who has done something to hurt someone in twd if you are gonna have that attitude that includes nick, bonnie, mike , rick, jane and a few others
you got a good point and i agree with you sir
Stay classy, jerk.
It's kind of your own fault if you want to blindly deny the actual story. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the likelihood of bonds being formed after living and surviving with one another after three months is honestly pretty bizarre.
I guess Clementine shouldn't have given a shit about Omid dying? What about losing Christa? Why would Clementine be interested in finding and reuniting with Christa? I mean, there was no evidence of the two bonding together during all the time skips, so clearly that means there should not have been any sort of notable relationship between the two... right? Why does Clementine refer to Christa as her friend? So, so baffling. (Alright, I'll stop with the sarcasm... just trying to make a point.)
I'm not even going to argue the point because it ultimately does not matter.. for reasons explained above.
Subjective viewpoint. I thought their relationship was fine without any of that. Pretty much no one visibly bonded with Clementine in season one outside of Lee himself. The story centered around the Lee-Clementine relationship, not the Clementine-Everyone relationship. It doesn't matter that the season two relationship is based on something we never saw (in terms of a 1on1 personal connection).
You don't know that they didn't have some level of a relationship in season one. There is no way for you to know that. Telltale implies that there was. Common sense implies that there was. Why are people denying these things? People aren't even trying to be objective about this.
I have never said that Clem was "holding back" her feelings. Not once. You can care about someone and not visibly express that. It has nothing to do with holding anything back.
All of this is besides the point anyway. There is no clear evidence that there was a relationship between the two in season one, but it is certainly very plausible that there was... opposed to the implausibility of there not being a relationship at all (again, these two were living and surviving with one another for MONTHS). Like the relationship or not, but it is 100% valid.
I guess TellTale made it an offscreen relationship, but yeah it felt forced because of that. Also Kenny isn't the only one with a forced friendship either, Jane was forced on Clementine too.
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I'm refusing it because there is simply no evidence of it that Kenny and Clem formed a bond, I didn't see it, and Telltale didn't even try to give me any hints or a mention that Kenny and Clem formed a bond in S1, it's plausible, BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE and i'm not basing an emotional attachment on assumptions and plausibility, it doesn't work like that in fiction, when there is zero evidence. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Why would Clem refer to Christa as her friend? Probably because the two ACTUALLY TALKED TO EACH OTHER in S1 episode 3, and besides a 16-month time skip really didn't work well at all as far being wasted potential for a relationship that had build up. Of course Telltale implies that there was, because they know Kenny and Clem is such a popular pairing, that they'll say there was one, but they won't actually show it because they don't have any evidence to back it up. Common sense doesn't apply, considering again, there's no evidence. Clem and Christa not bonding after the timeskip, it was only a short scene and really like I said, wasted potential.
Belan, you seem more and more like you are in too much love with Kenny's character and are just more comfortable in believing there was a relationship and bonding rather than knowing there was a relationship in S1.
You gotta love this guy: Zykelator
I'll try to explain this very simple Belan.
She definitely had talked with Kenny before, but clearly they didnt know each other. Only thing which united them was Lee, and no matter how huge prick Kenny was to Lee or Clementine, their "friendship" stays the same in season 2.
Why change the subject, instead of talking about current one?
And Clementine or Kenny is the one that starts the firefight, by shooting Rebecca in already delicate situation.
Arvo's motives for trying to rob our group is determinate anyway, so no point blaming Jane for it.
Its not up to us to decide Clementine's history...
They could have aswell put a character we never met and said "you had a good friendship in this period, which you never saw". Maybe Clementine's friend from school or some shit. How are people supposed to care about Kenny - Clementine friendship, if they have no information about them interacting with each other? This forced friendship was just a favor to Kenny fans.
Lazy writers!!!! hah! can't blame jane nor kenny...
Alright, but this doesn't matter at all then. If you're admitting that the relationship is plausible (it is) then where is the actual problem in the relationship picking up in season two? You don't have to like it, but that doesn't mean the relationship is out of place. The fact that we didn't see much on screen evidence in season one is completely irrelevant to the legitimacy of an existing relationship going into season two. That's really all there is to it. I don't see what there is to argue about.
Please don't ask me "Why is this so hard for you to understand" when you literally just did nothing to back up what you said.
You're openly dismissing plausibility for your supposed understanding of how fictional writing works (as if there was any sort of set standard for how that works). Basically you're refusing to look at the situation realistically. In what universe does that support your argument?
You're splitting hairs and entirely missing the point. They talked to each other a little, sure. That goes without saying. Did they have an established on screen relationship? No. Nothing noteworthy.
What build up? There was no more build up in season one/ the very start of season two than there was with Kenny and Clem in season one. And even if you want to split hairs and somehow argue that there was, we're talking about an absolutely minuscule amount.
The point of all of this is the fact that Clementine didn't have any sort of visibly strong on screen relationship with Christa and yet was genuinely concerned in finding her, and also referred to her as her friend multiple times. Why does no one question this? Probably because it makes sense considering that had over a year of bonding time. It doesn't matter if we saw the relationship developing on screen or not. Clementine cared about Christa, and it is completely 100% understandable why she would given the circumstances. That is all that matters. All of this applies to Kenny, obviously.
Common sense applies for reasons that I have already stated in this post (and even before this post..). You even said yourself that it was plausible. How can something be plausible and yet be lacking in common sense? That makes no sense.
The reasons why are completely irrelevant. The fact remains that they had little on screen bonding time, and yet Clementine clearly cared about her.
I know there was a relationship in season one, because that only makes sense to the story. Obviously if they canonically had no relationship in season one they wouldn't have been so thrilled to be reunited in season two. I'm arguing about the legitimacy of the story and the realistic outcomes of the story.
Yeah... simple is about the right word for it..
Irrelevant. We're talking about two secondary characters with realistically having the ability to have an offscreen relationship. Nothing to debate here.
Clementine never saw Kenny give Lee the little "let him go" glance during the bell tower scene, so the whole murder thing is kind of out the window. We don't know how Clementine felt towards Kenny at all about this issue, so you telling me what I can and can't think is kind of ridiculous.
100% guess work.
And no, we don't know that Kenny wanted to leave Omid behind. He was in a pissy mood less than 24 hours after his son died and his wife committed suicide. He offered a blunt/uncarring suggestion to a hypothetical. I doubt he even meant it (only Telltale knows obviously..)
This is such a counterpoint to the argument that the relationship is forced that I don't even know if I want to take you up on this. I mean, this point alone works to invalidate the purpose behind everything else that you had said.
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Jane should have killed Arvo when they first met then the gunfight would never happened if Kenny was there when Clem first met Arvo he would have killed him. You cant take any chances in ZA