Sometimes the consequences of your choices aren't the end result. Sometimes it's not about how many people you can save or kill. Sometimes it's just about the choices. It's about what you could do, would do, whether you'd regret it. I've said it before, I think it's even less about your character and more about the supporting characters. This is less true and yet more true in S2 in which Clem, from the supporting cast of S1, is made the protagonist. Even though most of the characters died no matter what, I felt like their lives mattered. They were fleshed out and I could find a reason to care about their persons, not just their lives. What you say or do can affect not just how they view you, but also their outlook on life(extreme example), which I thought was cool.
I don't have the motivation to go through this forum and read all of your comments, so I'm not sure what opinion of the game you ended up walking away with, but I can say that I...tolerate your initial opinion. Now that I've given a couple cents.
The op seems like the type who would argue pro choice opinions on a strictly republican forum then ask "why are you guyz flaming me?!?!" Ser… moreiously dude I know you are entitled to your opinion and I don't take issue with that fact but there is a time and place for everything and your stress levels would probably be better off if you had kept this particular opinion to yourself.
So many people agreeing and saying it's overrated which is fucking absurd imo. Games like Call of Duty are best-selling while this work of art remains relatively unknown. I've never met another player of it outside of the internet.
Ok, so I've read Jared X Gamer (I think that's his/her name). If that's you're referencing to specifically. I can grasp a lot of their points, honestly. The consequences, the emotional weight, a lot of it.
I still believe her character to be a highlight in my eyes. I did find her to be a bit too resilient to certain situations though. Her falling in below freezing degree water and then surviving for a full four or five minutes is shit.
But, I still find her to be a tragic character. Someone who still is at the age between knowledge and confusion. She knows what death is, but doesn't know what repercussions and consequences can follow it. She understands suffering but hates herself for the suffering she can potentially bring on others. I find her to be just as relatable as she is genuine.
She may not be as interesting as Travis Bickle (Taxi Driver) or Jim Stark (Rebel Without a Cause) or Walter E. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now) but she is still on par with many VG protagonist's such as Commander Shepard (Mass Effect) or Captain Martin Walker (Spec Ops: The Line).
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/84455/i-didn-t-like-how-clementine-changed-in-season-2-telltale-please-take-notes-for-next… more-season/p4
Page 4. First post by Bokor and the entourage of replies afterwards. If you're truly interested in the explanation then you'll find it there. It's not short, so be forewarned. It just might end up changing your view on the subject.
In my opinion, the only part of the game that is a masterpiece is the story. Personally, for a game to be a masterpiece in my eyes, it needs to have amazing graphics and gameplay, not just story. (Though graphics don't matter as much)
Jared X Gamer and the person who seems like his name is some Latin phrase, along with the people who join in on occasion.
Her supernatural position in the story was a major factor. Especially getting shot and it not even phasing her. That was supposed to be a climactic scenario, I doubt she has been shot before, especially through the chest, but she shrugs it off like she was poked with a needle! Gah.
She is extremely tragic, which is fine for awhile. But there comes a point in a story where there has to be a hope, a goal, moments of peace and tranquility. If I wanted utter darkness I would go in my basement and turn off all the lights. Season one worked so well because there were things they were fighting for besides just surviving. They were bonding and connecting. Sharing their stories about what used to be and what happened when it went down. This season seemed more like bickering with slight undertones of forced relationship; and death, followed by another death, followed by another death, followed by..... predictability. Even the "shocking" death scenes could be seen a mile away, and they weren't well enough done to make the build up to the climactic giveaway even worth it. I saw the St. Johns for what they were as soon as the stepped on the paradise farmland, but Marks death was still so powerful because of the addition of them feeding the others his legs. As soon as I saw something like "Stop Clementine from eating the meat." pop up on my screen I nearly lost it. My fingers were flickering from left to right trying to get Lee to move in the right damn direction. Thank God I made it in time! I can honestly say that the deaths in S2 were just that, deaths. Nothing more, nothing less. They came and went and left no such mark on me as the time I couldn't get Lee to turn his ass around and walk down the stairs. Sarah's death was the only death which even slightly pushed forth the feelings of sadness and despair and hopelessness, if only for the dreadful sounds she made. All of Nick's were a sham, even the one that they didn't have to have them dragging his hardly-story-involved ass around. Luke's was racked with impossibilities, which I could overlook if I had honestly bonded with him in the first place. I'll admit him and Clem had some moments which really connected me to him, but to be honest they weren't lasting and when it came down to it and he died it was as if my friend's friend had died. Sad, but not particularly touching. Rebecca's death felt like a point in the game that was present for the sole purpose of making the situation bad. Her bonding with Clem was so fucking forced I could do nothing but sit back and shake my head and wag my boney finger. There was nothing between Clem besides baby references and idiotic secrets you wouldn't tell an 11 year old and the secret amounted to absolutely nothing in the end. Congratulations, your pregnant. Is there anything to you besides that? I'm not going to go through them all, but every single one of these characters seemed little more than characters of circumstance, not truly interacting with Clem, but rather being there to push the story and fill the episodes until they could give you a choice between logic vs emotion between a character who has little more to her character than a 2 minute long speech and interacts with Clem on such a meager level and the fan favorite, fan-service-returner from season one who has as almost as much screen time as the playable character... in both seasons!
Thinking back on what I wrote this actually applies less to her character as it does her interactions with other characters and the dynamic of the story, but I don't feel like erasing it all since it's still my point of view anyways
Ok, so I've read Jared X Gamer (I think that's his/her name). If that's you're referencing to specifically. I can grasp a lot of their point… mores, honestly. The consequences, the emotional weight, a lot of it.
I still believe her character to be a highlight in my eyes. I did find her to be a bit too resilient to certain situations though. Her falling in below freezing degree water and then surviving for a full four or five minutes is shit.
But, I still find her to be a tragic character. Someone who still is at the age between knowledge and confusion. She knows what death is, but doesn't know what repercussions and consequences can follow it. She understands suffering but hates herself for the suffering she can potentially bring on others. I find her to be just as relatable as she is genuine.
She may not be as interesting as Travis Bickle (Taxi Driver) or Jim Stark (Rebel Without a Cause) or Walter E. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now) but she is sti… [view original content]
Me neither. Calling him a villain implies he has evil intentions. Definitely not true and actually quite the direct opposite. But he can definitely be considered a "bad" guy in some ways. Plus all of his other points are true. I give it a 95% true ranking
But in all seriousness, you've stepped in some serious shit by posting this. You're going to be swarmed. Here are my responses...
The … morecop keeps ingnoring an alarming events (a dozen of police cars, fricking helicopter). Or maybe it just an American way to deal with a problem.
The cop's clearly a dumbass. As well as that the police scanner only reported a 10-91E which is code for an animal bite... Yeah, zombies. He wasn't dispatched to the shitstorm the other vehicles were headed to.
Duck getting bitten and Kajtaa's suicide. Not real reason to kill of those characters, just to make Kenny.. hmmm, "developed".
LOL. A mother's child being bitten isn't valid reason for her to commit suicide? Bullshit. It was emotional as hell and masterful work.
No one searched the shed at the mansion's backyard.
I'll give you that one. It's hardly the hugest plot hole in the world, is it? The group was stressed and sorrow… [view original content]
My apologies, Hollay. I couldn't use this logic later on, I haven't seen any McDonalds or eagles around. But I saw an American flag once, does it count?
* Greetings from Britian, Gloomy.
I did provide points. While you just said 1 word long sentences.
You just made a list, and you didn´t explain anything.
And explain how I'm being a hypocrite. Again nothing to back up your shit.
Well, you say that I only have "simple comebacks that make me seem like I am trying to be cool and edgy", and that is just a simple comeback. You complain about me just saying your "points" are wrong, when all your points are is a list with nothing to back it up. So you are a hypocrite.
Simple enougth for you?
The rest is just an appalling attempt at a response so I'm going to skip to the bare bones of your 'argument'
K. I just simplify it for you: some parts are about Kenny, and the main drama of Episode 5 consists of Kenny, but is nowhere near enougth to consider Season 2 "Kenny: a game about Kenny."
Yes the cabin group did not care she was a little girl. You know, except the times they either gave her unreasonable tasks or cared that she was a little girl. The whole dog bite scene revolved around her bite and her age. It was a moral dilema as she was just a child. And a lot of people cared that she was. Carver, Bonnie and Kenny.
The Cabin Group did not care about that, just Luke. How exactly did Carver care that Clem was a little girl? Before or after he slaps her so hard she falls to the ground? Bonnie does care about Clem being a child...except when is inconvenient for her, like when she tried to make Clem crawl through the ticket booth, tell her to go talk to Kenny instead of going herself, telling Clem her worries about Kenny like she was a adult or something, and when she leaves Clem to die in Episode 5. But yes, Kenny does care about Clem being a child. So? Do you really think that's enough to say that being that "little girl" is her whole ground? She goes through the same moral dilema as Lee-doing morally questionable things for the sake of survival or holding on to her morals.
And that list is just listing what happens.
Funny, considering that your list is just listing what happens.
While also proving my original point of a 'Game of Kenny'
Sure, dude, sure. You are ignoring that you can shape Clem's development and morals through these choices, and that Kenny being in some them is meaningless.
I did provide points. While you just said 1 word long sentences. And explain how I'm being a hypocrite. Again nothing to back up your shit. … moreThe rest is just an appalling attempt at a response so I'm going to skip to the bare bones of your 'argument'
Yes the cabin group did not care she was a little girl. You know, except the times they either gave her unreasonable tasks or cared that she was a little girl. The whole dog bite scene revolved around her bite and her age. It was a moral dilema as she was just a child. And a lot of people cared that she was. Carver, Bonnie and Kenny.
And that list is just listing what happens. While also proving my original point of a 'Game of Kenny'
Relationship with Kenny.
Kenny or Luke
Kenny or Jane
Watch Kenny kill Carver or not.
Look away or shoot Kenny.
Stay with Kenny or leave at Wellington
Okay Gloomy, I'll say I respect your opinions as everyone here are individuals and we all may see the same thing but look at it differently.
What may be an amazing part of the game to one person may seem as a flaw to someone else. That's fine.
You mentioned you are 22 and have been playing games since you were a kid.. I am 48 and have been playing games since I was a kid too. I remember when Pong was new.
I've said before, that in all my years, Telltales TWD is the best game, my most favorite game I've ever expirenced.
Yes, their are certain flaws, or scene's that are a bit unbelivable and we're meant to just accept them as part of the story, but I think alot of that comes after the initial playthrough.
What I mean by that is, while playing, I for one tend to be focused on the moment, and follow the story as it goes. It's not til after that we tend to analyze the episode(s) and pick apart things trying to decide if it was accurate or belivable.
I for one choose to enjoy the game as it is and not bother trying to dissect each episode or scene. That kind of thing can ruin the expirence for me.
Another example: Many years ago I watched a show on "The making of Star Wars". And I have to honestly say that I regret watching it because it really spoiled alot of the amazement and wonder for me. Of course it was just a movie and special effect's, but watching the Tie-Fighter's swinging on fishing line really killed the illusion I loved so much.
To me, everything that Telltale did with the Walking Dead is amazing and stands high above any other video game I have ever played.
I take it for what it is and have no desire to focus on what some may call flaw's. I simply don't care. I enjoy the game so much that any debate on if it's a Masterpiece is pointless to me.. It is a Masterpiece to me and that's what matters to me!
"The Walking Dead’s second season isn’t like that. Clementine has no Elizabeth, no Ellie, no Snow White and no Clementine of her own. The game gives you no hints as to what the morally right answers are."
This was from an article written by a video game journalist named Jill Scharr. I'll link the whole article to you (it's a bit lengthy though). A lot of her points I agree with though, if the main priority of Season 2 was to insight something more than "right and wrong" in gamers. I'd say they half-accomplished this bold narrative structure. Never giving you anyone to weigh down your decisions. It's up to you and only you.
Jared X Gamer and the person who seems like his name is some Latin phrase, along with the people who join in on occasion.
Her supernatura… morel position in the story was a major factor. Especially getting shot and it not even phasing her. That was supposed to be a climactic scenario, I doubt she has been shot before, especially through the chest, but she shrugs it off like she was poked with a needle! Gah.
She is extremely tragic, which is fine for awhile. But there comes a point in a story where there has to be a hope, a goal, moments of peace and tranquility. If I wanted utter darkness I would go in my basement and turn off all the lights. Season one worked so well because there were things they were fighting for besides just surviving. They were bonding and connecting. Sharing their stories about what used to be and what happened when it went down. This season seemed more like bickering with slight undertones of forced relationship; and d… [view original content]
You just made a list, and you didn´t explain anything.
A list of the moments that develop Kenny's character meaningfully (important word there by the way. Gonna bring it up a again)
Well, you say that I only have "simple comebacks that make me seem like I am trying to be cool and edgy", and that is just a simple comeback. You complain about me just saying your "points" are wrong, when all your points are is a list with nothing to back it up. So you are a hypocrite.
Simple enougth for you?
You're an idiot. All I can say on that point, and guess what a short snappy sentence to an idiotic argument. That's where they work by the way dude.
The Cabin Group did not care about that, just Luke. How exactly did Carver care that Clem was a little girl? Before or after he slaps her so hard she falls to the ground? Bonnie does care about Clem being a child...except when is inconvenient for her, like when she tried to make Clem crawl through the ticket booth, tell her to go talk to Kenny instead of going herself, telling Clem her worries about Kenny like she was a adult or something, and when she leaves Clem to die in Episode 5. But yes, Kenny does care about Clem being a child. So? Do you really think that's enough to say that being that "little girl" is her whole ground? She goes through the same moral dilema as Lee-doing morally questionable things for the sake of survival or holding on to her morals.
Carver cared as he considered her the future of the human race. He wanted to mold her into being a perfect being to survive. Bonnie says "You think you're just a little girl that no one has to care about what you do" or something along those lines.
Funny, considering that your list is just listing what happens.
But they are a list that meaningfully effect his character. (There's that word again)
Sure, dude, sure. You are ignoring that you can shape Clem's development and morals through these choices, and that Kenny being in some them is meaningless.
None of the choices you make as Clementine effect her character in the slightest. Drink some of the alchole? Nothing happens. Watch Carver die. Nothing happens. Nothing you do presents you with choices based on that new persona. The problem with this season. We see Lee devlop a love for Clementine. Guess what that is. Character development. Clementine has nothing. While Kenny has meaningful changes which affect the player's view of him. (That word is there again. I hope now you grasp it's meaning.)
I did provide points. While you just said 1 word long sentences.
You just made a list, and you didn´t explain anything.
And ex… moreplain how I'm being a hypocrite. Again nothing to back up your shit.
Well, you say that I only have "simple comebacks that make me seem like I am trying to be cool and edgy", and that is just a simple comeback. You complain about me just saying your "points" are wrong, when all your points are is a list with nothing to back it up. So you are a hypocrite.
Simple enougth for you?
The rest is just an appalling attempt at a response so I'm going to skip to the bare bones of your 'argument'
K. I just simplify it for you: some parts are about Kenny, and the main drama of Episode 5 consists of Kenny, but is nowhere near enougth to consider Season 2 "Kenny: a game about Kenny."
Yes the cabin group did not care she was a little girl. You know, except the times they either gave her un… [view original content]
Okay Gloomy, I'll say I respect your opinions as everyone here are individuals and we all may see the same thing but look at it differently.… more
What may be an amazing part of the game to one person may seem as a flaw to someone else. That's fine.
You mentioned you are 22 and have been playing games since you were a kid.. I am 48 and have been playing games since I was a kid too. I remember when Pong was new.
I've said before, that in all my years, Telltales TWD is the best game, my most favorite game I've ever expirenced.
Yes, their are certain flaws, or scene's that are a bit unbelivable and we're meant to just accept them as part of the story, but I think alot of that comes after the initial playthrough.
What I mean by that is, while playing, I for one tend to be focused on the moment, and follow the story as it goes. It's not til after that we tend to analyze the episode(s) and pick apart things trying to decide if it was acc… [view original content]
If this is to my thing I posted, that's the reason why I put villain in quotations. It's not clear. But as with S1, the stranger was built up behind the scenes since S1EP2 and finally revealing himself in EP4. Giving the player a goal. Most stories have a villain who is built up throughout is telling. And by the amount of build up for Kenny is that similar to a villain in a thriller.
Exactly, the first play-through's are the most important because that's when it's all new and untarnished by opinion's.
That's when we make our mistakes, make decisions without knowing what affect it will have later on.
Like choosing Carley or Doug. I had intended to save Carley in that moment, but I missed seeing her purse on the counter, so when I couldnt click on her, I had to click (save) Doug. I took it as in the moment of confusion as walkers were storming the drug store, it was just the way it worked out.
People complain that regardless who you save, they will die later on so that choices really don't matter.. I understand that, but look at it like this.. You save someone from Walkers one minute, the next minute they fall off a rooftop and die. Who is to say something like that couldnt happen? Just because you save them, doesn't mean they'll never die.
In that first play-through, given the option to save Shawn or Duck, no matter what you choose, the outcome is the same, but you don't know that. You wouldn't know that in the moment, so I think that's perfectly accurate.
What then happen's is people replay the episode or watch other's and realize no matter who you choose, Shawn will die, then they complain that the choice didnt matter. You wouldnt know that on the first play-through.
It would be kinda like having the ability to time-travel, to go back and change a decision to try to "cheat" the story.
I have TWD on Xbox and PC.. 3 saves each and I've played every episode 6 times but I have never re-wound a single second of any episode. I consider the first saves as my "pure" play through and the others are just to see what happen's with different choices.
I've seen people play an episode, stop and rewind because they didn't like the outcome. (try to save Carley from being shot in the face, try to save Luke from the river). Okay, it's your game to play as you wish, but imo, that's called cheating yourself. Then when they find out they cant save that character, they get upset and say the choices don't matter. Not every decision you may make will result in an outcome you want. If you play the game the first time as it's intended, it's awesome, filled with surprises, heatbreak, horror and even some humor, but if you wish to pick it apart, complain how your favorite character died, justify changing decisions because you didnt like an outcome, it's like reading a book and scribbling out the ending and re-writing your own.
Exactly, how ridiculous is that? All of these people she is with and none have any care for what she does? No talks, no words, no looks of disgust, or fear, or love, or confusion. The direction you could say they are going with as in not giving you any confirmation of right or wrong would work if she was alone with no one to reflect on her choices for her. As it sits she is with an entire group of people who apparently don't give half a single fuck, also going back to no/minimal interaction. Sure there isn't a "moral compass" you can look at after each action like Clementine was for Lee in season one, but there were so many people there who didn't form a moral or even immoral compass in any form, they just sat there as dimensionless as the day before they were born. With the lack of this it's not honestly that far out of line to assume Clementine could have turned around and shot the baby in the face and most of the characters would have walked away like "Meh."
EDIT: PS. I didn't get to read the article you linked yet, I'll make time later today hopefully.
"The Walking Dead’s second season isn’t like that. Clementine has no Elizabeth, no Ellie, no Snow White and no Clementine of her own. The ga… moreme gives you no hints as to what the morally right answers are."
This was from an article written by a video game journalist named Jill Scharr. I'll link the whole article to you (it's a bit lengthy though). A lot of her points I agree with though, if the main priority of Season 2 was to insight something more than "right and wrong" in gamers. I'd say they half-accomplished this bold narrative structure. Never giving you anyone to weigh down your decisions. It's up to you and only you.
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/the-walking-dead-clementine,news-18797.html
Comments
Well, that's because it's not a game really, it's an interactive movie. Also, why would you EVER trust an IGN review? Like, ever?
Sometimes the consequences of your choices aren't the end result. Sometimes it's not about how many people you can save or kill. Sometimes it's just about the choices. It's about what you could do, would do, whether you'd regret it. I've said it before, I think it's even less about your character and more about the supporting characters. This is less true and yet more true in S2 in which Clem, from the supporting cast of S1, is made the protagonist. Even though most of the characters died no matter what, I felt like their lives mattered. They were fleshed out and I could find a reason to care about their persons, not just their lives. What you say or do can affect not just how they view you, but also their outlook on life(extreme example), which I thought was cool.
I don't have the motivation to go through this forum and read all of your comments, so I'm not sure what opinion of the game you ended up walking away with, but I can say that I...tolerate your initial opinion. Now that I've given a couple cents.
WoW?
Yes? World of warcraft?
Haha, wana buy an account?!
So you make a strawman insulting the guy then attempt to take the righteous path.
Nah. Got 584 ilvl tank in top 350 raiding guild with more than enough gold. I dont need new accaunt.
So many people agreeing and saying it's overrated which is fucking absurd imo. Games like Call of Duty are best-selling while this work of art remains relatively unknown. I've never met another player of it outside of the internet.
This forum has been full of complaints, just because you joined recently doesn't mean it's not true
So do i, but i use X-51 Nether-Rocket X-TREME.
Thank you ;_;
But I've got Corrupt Ashbringer!
i doubt that. I've seen only 1 person with that weapon in 8 years.
I've been around a long time.
Ok, so I've read Jared X Gamer (I think that's his/her name). If that's you're referencing to specifically. I can grasp a lot of their points, honestly. The consequences, the emotional weight, a lot of it.
I still believe her character to be a highlight in my eyes. I did find her to be a bit too resilient to certain situations though. Her falling in below freezing degree water and then surviving for a full four or five minutes is shit.
But, I still find her to be a tragic character. Someone who still is at the age between knowledge and confusion. She knows what death is, but doesn't know what repercussions and consequences can follow it. She understands suffering but hates herself for the suffering she can potentially bring on others. I find her to be just as relatable as she is genuine.
She may not be as interesting as Travis Bickle (Taxi Driver) or Jim Stark (Rebel Without a Cause) or Walter E. Kurtz (Apocalypse Now) but she is still on par with many VG protagonist's such as Commander Shepard (Mass Effect) or Captain Martin Walker (Spec Ops: The Line).
Only games i know you play are bioshock and twd. What else do you play then?
In my opinion, the only part of the game that is a masterpiece is the story. Personally, for a game to be a masterpiece in my eyes, it needs to have amazing graphics and gameplay, not just story. (Though graphics don't matter as much)
Jared X Gamer and the person who seems like his name is some Latin phrase, along with the people who join in on occasion.
Her supernatural position in the story was a major factor. Especially getting shot and it not even phasing her. That was supposed to be a climactic scenario, I doubt she has been shot before, especially through the chest, but she shrugs it off like she was poked with a needle! Gah.
She is extremely tragic, which is fine for awhile. But there comes a point in a story where there has to be a hope, a goal, moments of peace and tranquility. If I wanted utter darkness I would go in my basement and turn off all the lights. Season one worked so well because there were things they were fighting for besides just surviving. They were bonding and connecting. Sharing their stories about what used to be and what happened when it went down. This season seemed more like bickering with slight undertones of forced relationship; and death, followed by another death, followed by another death, followed by..... predictability. Even the "shocking" death scenes could be seen a mile away, and they weren't well enough done to make the build up to the climactic giveaway even worth it. I saw the St. Johns for what they were as soon as the stepped on the paradise farmland, but Marks death was still so powerful because of the addition of them feeding the others his legs. As soon as I saw something like "Stop Clementine from eating the meat." pop up on my screen I nearly lost it. My fingers were flickering from left to right trying to get Lee to move in the right damn direction. Thank God I made it in time! I can honestly say that the deaths in S2 were just that, deaths. Nothing more, nothing less. They came and went and left no such mark on me as the time I couldn't get Lee to turn his ass around and walk down the stairs. Sarah's death was the only death which even slightly pushed forth the feelings of sadness and despair and hopelessness, if only for the dreadful sounds she made. All of Nick's were a sham, even the one that they didn't have to have them dragging his hardly-story-involved ass around. Luke's was racked with impossibilities, which I could overlook if I had honestly bonded with him in the first place. I'll admit him and Clem had some moments which really connected me to him, but to be honest they weren't lasting and when it came down to it and he died it was as if my friend's friend had died. Sad, but not particularly touching. Rebecca's death felt like a point in the game that was present for the sole purpose of making the situation bad. Her bonding with Clem was so fucking forced I could do nothing but sit back and shake my head and wag my boney finger. There was nothing between Clem besides baby references and idiotic secrets you wouldn't tell an 11 year old and the secret amounted to absolutely nothing in the end. Congratulations, your pregnant. Is there anything to you besides that? I'm not going to go through them all, but every single one of these characters seemed little more than characters of circumstance, not truly interacting with Clem, but rather being there to push the story and fill the episodes until they could give you a choice between logic vs emotion between a character who has little more to her character than a 2 minute long speech and interacts with Clem on such a meager level and the fan favorite, fan-service-returner from season one who has as almost as much screen time as the playable character... in both seasons!
Thinking back on what I wrote this actually applies less to her character as it does her interactions with other characters and the dynamic of the story, but I don't feel like erasing it all since it's still my point of view anyways
Me neither. Calling him a villain implies he has evil intentions. Definitely not true and actually quite the direct opposite. But he can definitely be considered a "bad" guy in some ways. Plus all of his other points are true. I give it a 95% true ranking
You play some decent games. mgs best series in that list imo.
The cop keeps ingnoring an alarming events (a dozen of police cars, fricking helicopter). Or maybe it just an American way to deal with a problem.
The cop had 1 job at that time.. to transport a prisoner to the prison regardless of the radio chatter. He did exactly what he was supposed to do.
oi ther ya fookin tee dranker :P
You just made a list, and you didn´t explain anything.
Well, you say that I only have "simple comebacks that make me seem like I am trying to be cool and edgy", and that is just a simple comeback. You complain about me just saying your "points" are wrong, when all your points are is a list with nothing to back it up. So you are a hypocrite.
Simple enougth for you?
K. I just simplify it for you: some parts are about Kenny, and the main drama of Episode 5 consists of Kenny, but is nowhere near enougth to consider Season 2 "Kenny: a game about Kenny."
The Cabin Group did not care about that, just Luke. How exactly did Carver care that Clem was a little girl? Before or after he slaps her so hard she falls to the ground? Bonnie does care about Clem being a child...except when is inconvenient for her, like when she tried to make Clem crawl through the ticket booth, tell her to go talk to Kenny instead of going herself, telling Clem her worries about Kenny like she was a adult or something, and when she leaves Clem to die in Episode 5. But yes, Kenny does care about Clem being a child. So? Do you really think that's enough to say that being that "little girl" is her whole ground? She goes through the same moral dilema as Lee-doing morally questionable things for the sake of survival or holding on to her morals.
Funny, considering that your list is just listing what happens.
Sure, dude, sure. You are ignoring that you can shape Clem's development and morals through these choices, and that Kenny being in some them is meaningless.
Okay Gloomy, I'll say I respect your opinions as everyone here are individuals and we all may see the same thing but look at it differently.
What may be an amazing part of the game to one person may seem as a flaw to someone else. That's fine.
You mentioned you are 22 and have been playing games since you were a kid.. I am 48 and have been playing games since I was a kid too. I remember when Pong was new.
I've said before, that in all my years, Telltales TWD is the best game, my most favorite game I've ever expirenced.
Yes, their are certain flaws, or scene's that are a bit unbelivable and we're meant to just accept them as part of the story, but I think alot of that comes after the initial playthrough.
What I mean by that is, while playing, I for one tend to be focused on the moment, and follow the story as it goes. It's not til after that we tend to analyze the episode(s) and pick apart things trying to decide if it was accurate or belivable.
I for one choose to enjoy the game as it is and not bother trying to dissect each episode or scene. That kind of thing can ruin the expirence for me.
Another example: Many years ago I watched a show on "The making of Star Wars". And I have to honestly say that I regret watching it because it really spoiled alot of the amazement and wonder for me. Of course it was just a movie and special effect's, but watching the Tie-Fighter's swinging on fishing line really killed the illusion I loved so much.
To me, everything that Telltale did with the Walking Dead is amazing and stands high above any other video game I have ever played.
I take it for what it is and have no desire to focus on what some may call flaw's. I simply don't care. I enjoy the game so much that any debate on if it's a Masterpiece is pointless to me.. It is a Masterpiece to me and that's what matters to me!
This was from an article written by a video game journalist named Jill Scharr. I'll link the whole article to you (it's a bit lengthy though). A lot of her points I agree with though, if the main priority of Season 2 was to insight something more than "right and wrong" in gamers. I'd say they half-accomplished this bold narrative structure. Never giving you anyone to weigh down your decisions. It's up to you and only you.
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/the-walking-dead-clementine,news-18797.html
A list of the moments that develop Kenny's character meaningfully (important word there by the way. Gonna bring it up a again)
Simple enougth for you?
You're an idiot. All I can say on that point, and guess what a short snappy sentence to an idiotic argument. That's where they work by the way dude.
Carver cared as he considered her the future of the human race. He wanted to mold her into being a perfect being to survive. Bonnie says "You think you're just a little girl that no one has to care about what you do" or something along those lines.
But they are a list that meaningfully effect his character. (There's that word again)
None of the choices you make as Clementine effect her character in the slightest. Drink some of the alchole? Nothing happens. Watch Carver die. Nothing happens. Nothing you do presents you with choices based on that new persona. The problem with this season. We see Lee devlop a love for Clementine. Guess what that is. Character development. Clementine has nothing. While Kenny has meaningful changes which affect the player's view of him. (That word is there again. I hope now you grasp it's meaning.)
First play-trough's are the most important. Go with your gut when making decisions and get immersed = profit!
If this is to my thing I posted, that's the reason why I put villain in quotations. It's not clear. But as with S1, the stranger was built up behind the scenes since S1EP2 and finally revealing himself in EP4. Giving the player a goal. Most stories have a villain who is built up throughout is telling. And by the amount of build up for Kenny is that similar to a villain in a thriller.
Exactly, the first play-through's are the most important because that's when it's all new and untarnished by opinion's.
That's when we make our mistakes, make decisions without knowing what affect it will have later on.
Like choosing Carley or Doug. I had intended to save Carley in that moment, but I missed seeing her purse on the counter, so when I couldnt click on her, I had to click (save) Doug. I took it as in the moment of confusion as walkers were storming the drug store, it was just the way it worked out.
People complain that regardless who you save, they will die later on so that choices really don't matter.. I understand that, but look at it like this.. You save someone from Walkers one minute, the next minute they fall off a rooftop and die. Who is to say something like that couldnt happen? Just because you save them, doesn't mean they'll never die.
In that first play-through, given the option to save Shawn or Duck, no matter what you choose, the outcome is the same, but you don't know that. You wouldn't know that in the moment, so I think that's perfectly accurate.
What then happen's is people replay the episode or watch other's and realize no matter who you choose, Shawn will die, then they complain that the choice didnt matter. You wouldnt know that on the first play-through.
It would be kinda like having the ability to time-travel, to go back and change a decision to try to "cheat" the story.
I have TWD on Xbox and PC.. 3 saves each and I've played every episode 6 times but I have never re-wound a single second of any episode. I consider the first saves as my "pure" play through and the others are just to see what happen's with different choices.
I've seen people play an episode, stop and rewind because they didn't like the outcome. (try to save Carley from being shot in the face, try to save Luke from the river). Okay, it's your game to play as you wish, but imo, that's called cheating yourself. Then when they find out they cant save that character, they get upset and say the choices don't matter. Not every decision you may make will result in an outcome you want. If you play the game the first time as it's intended, it's awesome, filled with surprises, heatbreak, horror and even some humor, but if you wish to pick it apart, complain how your favorite character died, justify changing decisions because you didnt like an outcome, it's like reading a book and scribbling out the ending and re-writing your own.
Exactly, how ridiculous is that? All of these people she is with and none have any care for what she does? No talks, no words, no looks of disgust, or fear, or love, or confusion. The direction you could say they are going with as in not giving you any confirmation of right or wrong would work if she was alone with no one to reflect on her choices for her. As it sits she is with an entire group of people who apparently don't give half a single fuck, also going back to no/minimal interaction. Sure there isn't a "moral compass" you can look at after each action like Clementine was for Lee in season one, but there were so many people there who didn't form a moral or even immoral compass in any form, they just sat there as dimensionless as the day before they were born. With the lack of this it's not honestly that far out of line to assume Clementine could have turned around and shot the baby in the face and most of the characters would have walked away like "Meh."
EDIT: PS. I didn't get to read the article you linked yet, I'll make time later today hopefully.
Phase 1: Banang
Phase 2:
Phase 3: Profit