Lily, Molly, Christa or Jane
I know that it's so unlikely but if all of Clem's group died who would you want to travel with in season 3 (if Clem lives)
State them in order and explain why as well if you want.
Mine would be
- Molly as she was as I felt the most capable of surviving and knew what she was doing
- Jane as she looked at Clem as a little sister and I know she would never let anything happen to her
- Lily as I really want to travel with her and then turn on her and get revenge for what she did to Carley XD
- Christa would be my last as shes broken and we all know it wasn't working out in the first episode of the season I love Christa but still .
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Oh damn the first 2 choices on my list are a hard pick.....
Molly. Pure awesome. Kick ass. Hooplah.
Christa. She has been there through thick and thin. Birth and death. Happiness and mourning. Everything.
Jane. She can take care of herself. Strong willed, willing, and from what I've seen actually very caring; though she covers it well.
Alone.
Lily. Haha no. Crazy chick is crazy!
Lilly is pretty chill. As long as you don't steal meds or drop a saltlick on her dad's head. :P
Molly and Christa have proven that they care enough to take care of Clem. Jane is cool enough, but i think she's far too frail psychologically to trust in the long run, more likely to ditch if it gets hairy.
I'm unsure about Lily. If she's like she was when she left Lee's crew I would say that she's become too paranoid to be trusted 100%.
Molly and Jane.
She did shoot a companion in the face on a baseless accusation while dealing with a trauma most everyone else had been going through. I'd pass on her.
Christa: She's my absolute 100% my top choice for Clem's caretaker as of now. Yes, she's very cold and stoic and maybe even harbors some negative feelings towards Clem. But she loves that girl and will protect her with her life, something I can't say for any of the other people. Besides, if (when) they reunite, all of that negativity will have gone away. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Molly: We don't really know dick about how much she cares for Clem but she's absurdly capable and seems fairly decent. However, her survival skills seem more geared towards cityscapes, so I'm not sure how much of a help she'd be in the wilderness.
Jane: Less of a caretaker, more of a partner. But she has stuck her neck out for Clem on several occasions and is a very good survivor. And I don't think she'd abandon Clem when she's in need unless there's no other way. However, being a pessimist, she might think that a situation is more unsalvageable than it really is, so that's my reservation there.
Lily: I'm sure at one point, she cared for Clem. But she snapped, killing a group member in front of her and potentially took the RV and left Clem and the others stranded in the middle of nowhere. Add two years onto that and there's no telling what she'd be like. I don't trust her. Not until she can prove that she's better than when we last saw her.
I say i'd kill her if I found her but deep down I know I couldn't the same happened with Larry I hated his guts but I couldn't kill him XD
Christa, so she can have the baby for justice, this reparation would make me feel all warm inside.
Jane
Lilly, I hate her and never forgave and will never forgive the murder of Carley, but I still put her before :
Molly, last, because she's a Mary Sue and feels like a pure video game character, I'd choose a character that I hate but who feels real over a character that breaks my immersion in the game any time.
1: Christa. She took care of Clem far longer than anyone else in the series, and even in the face of certain death risked her life to save a girl she resented. Her emotional coldness may have made Clementine a miserable person, but she didn't give up on her humanity and just leave her to die.
2: Molly. She's strong, capable and has a soft spot for children. She'd probably make a great mentor for Clem, even if her track record as a guardian haven't been great. At the very least, she doesn't write off people just because they resemble her sister.
3: Lilly. She's barely above Jane in my book, because while she's guilty of an unforgivable crime I believe she never bore any grudge against Clem. She'll have to work harder than Bonnie did to earn Clem's forgiveness, but also remember that she essentially did the same crime that Lee did - murdering in a fit of rage. If Lee redeemed himself and proved that he was a genuinely good man at heart, Lilly may turn out to be the same. This is a gamble considering she may have spent the last two years living on her own.
4: Jane. She's competent and may have once been a sensitive person, but she's become a hypocritical and cold-blooded thug. She was interested in Clem more because she was tough and represented how her sister should have been, rather than because she actually cared about children. She dismisses grieving people as doomed and rationalizes it to herself by assuming they'd be happier dead. She exploits an emotionally vulnerable man and then leaves to avoid getting attached. She's unnecessarily violent towards a disarmed stranger and didn't seem to care that there would be consequences to intimidating him. Finally, she leaves Clementine because she's too cowardly to deal with the potential of her dying, yet refuses to even take her along and protect her in order to assure that it won't happen.
At that point, Lilly was the only person in the group who'd had her only remaining family member's brains splattered all over her face by one of her fellow group members. She snapped and kills someone whom she believed to be responsible for betraying the group - whether it's her attempting to murder Ben and accidentally killing Doug, or shooting Carley after believing she may have been colluding with Ben.
I don't regret leaving her to die as Lee, but if she's atoned for it over the last two years then Clementine might give her a chance.
While most others in the group had been dealing with the death of most / all of their family. Ben per example never got to see his family but he didn't go around shooting people (though he was a fuck up in his own accords). She may have witnessed his death, but that hardly gives her the "right" to shoot a companion in the face, whether she believes they have colluded with Ben (no proof, not even that is was Ben at the time) or not. Especially on both accounts the dead member proved an integral and trustworthy part of the group as a whole. Could she atone for these wrong doings? Sure. I doubt I would ever trust her through and through again though. And I would choose most anyone over her as a partner.
Speaking of which... Disney should broker a deal for a episodic Star Wars Series where you play as a Team of Bounty Hunters. That would be badass!
Kenny didn't lose his wife and daughter at that point. Poor Ben was a kid who pretty much no one aside from Carley, Clem and (potentially) Lee trusted enough to tell them about his fears for his family.
I'm not justifying the murder of Carley, but I want to point out that what Lilly did represented her breaking point. It's the worst thing she's capable of - just as Lee murdered a man before the apocalypse, Kenny berates a hurting child for trying to save his girlfriend, and Luke abandoned his group to have sex with Jane. Think of how Bonnie tries to defend Carver's actions as that of someone who's over-stressed by the burden of leadership, and then remember that nobody trusted Lilly and she was fully aware of that.
If she's calmed down, she might make a decent caretaker for Clementine. If there's any grudges she'd bear, it'd be against grown men like Kenny and the deceased Lee.
christa and molly
the others fuck them I really don't care
Most people had their father's head smashed in while trying to save them and saved their group from bandits only to have them try to abandon her at the motel?
Yeah, I don't think so.
Ben may not have been trusted, but that doesn't make it so that he didn't lose his family. If anything being disengaged from the other members of the group would make the traumatic realization all that more traumatic... but he didn't shoot people. Kenny didn't shoot friends after his family died. Lee didn't shoot friends after his family died. The list goes on.
If she has calmed down she could make an ok addition to the group, but not as Clem's caretaker. Her grudges (if there are any held, I would hope she got that out of her system by shooting an innocent friend) would be against Kenny, but I've seen how she copes with depression and anger, with a bullet aimed at the wrong person. No thanks.
In that situation, Lilly was the one with the gun. I think the implication is that she'd probably have been better off not being in the leadership position. Kenny himself ends up in no condition to lead following the death of his family, and if Lee goads him then he can beat the stuffing out of Lee before getting the anger out of his system.
Taking care of one girl would probably be less stressful and easier than having to manage a group where the majority outright hate you.
Strawmanning? Or just didn't understand the more subtle implications of my post?
That is a terrible comparison! Kenny went off and could potentially beat the snot out of a man telling him his son was about to be pushing up daisies. A completely understandable reaction. Lily shot, and killed, a loyal member of the team. She probably would have been better off if not in a stressful leadership position I agree, but does that negate the fact she killed Carley/Doug? I'd sure hope not. Kenny also ends up in no condition to lead. A pathetic shell of a man, lost in a daze and spiraling into depression. But even through losing two family members in a few moments of each other, one of them barely starting out his life, he still doesn't shoot his friends.
It would be less stressful to manage one person vs an entire group, but when the going gets though she has already shown she doesn't get going.
You literally said 'while dealing with a trauma most everyone else had been going through.'
I disagree. That is not strawmanning, particularly as this is the first comment I have made on a discussion you have been having with someone else.
I am focusing on one part of what you wrote. That is not strawmanning if that is all I ever was doing.
Strawman is such a buzzword these days.
Actually, I think their grieving responses are very similar - they turn irrational and volatile, and lash out at people who piss them off. It's telling that the best way to get Kenny to apologize in Amid The Ruins is silence, rather than 'provoking' him by saying anything. Lilly was acting harshly for sure, but the last thing she needed to hear were insults about her being useless. The argument she got in escalated and she did something without thinking.
If Kenny had a gun in the train, I suspect he'd probably have used it on Lee if he got too worked up. Also remember that, when Clem first meets a furious Kenny at the fountain, the camera makes a point of focusing on his gun and he threatens her to leave him alone. I know from personal experience that it's a bad idea to goad an angry person, and to his credit he calms down after having hours of being by himself and not feeling needed.
Heh. Now I'm imagining Lilly in Season 2 Kenny's position.
"Or just didn't understand the more subtle implications of my post?"
Then by all means, it must have been the second of the two choices. My apologies. What was literally said and what was meant to be taken from it are two completely separate things. The trauma didn't specifically mean her -- singular -- exact -- trauma (after all that is damn near impossible is it not?), it meant the overall trauma of losing family members and trying to maintain the group.
In any case I know you're a huge supporter of Lily, and I'm in no way, shape, or form trying to start a flame war or anything here. So I'm going to have to end this conversation with you here and now. Have a good week end!
I know you meant the overall trauma.
I still think that what Lilly underwent was worse than some others had gone through.
Lilly lost her father in a particularly brutal way, which others didn't have to face.
You trying to exit the conversation there seems a bit 'shady' considering you missed my point, but whatever.
Similar definitely. If Kenny had had a gun on him while in the train with Lee he may have shot him. He may not have. The truth of it all is he didn't, while Lily did. This is the defining attribute of each situation that places Lily on my "no fly" list. Also it seems to me you are misconstruing something here. I don't find Kenny a reliable and viable companion for Clem. It's quite the opposite in fact, that I find him more and more so a detriment to her survivability and welfare each and every time he makes an appearance. So please don't think this is a "screw Lily, Kenny forever" sort of deal (in fact if I could I would refrain from even bringing up Kenny in a discussion about Lily, but seeing as their two stories are so completely intertwined it's nearly impossible). I wouldn't trust either of them anymore, but Lily is the greater of two evils in my book.
It's not about negation/absolution/justification. It's understanding and sympathy. I do not condone what Lilly did, but I can understand and sympathize with the the circumstances that made her lose her damn mind.
While everyone has lost loved ones, only Lily had one murdered in front of her by another member of the group. She gets little to no support as leader, a position that she didn't ask for, and gets a constant barrage of shit from the person who murdered her dad. She was right about Ben.
I mean, if were gonna oversimplify things, then we ought to be siding with Larry with regards to Lee. Larry sees Lee just as a convicted murderer, and disregards everything else about him.
I'm comparing the two because their reactions to losing loved ones under stress are both bad and showcase them at their worst. Lilly at her worst is a murderer.
Christa immediately executes Michelle for killing her boyfriend. Jane dismisses a grieving girl as a lost cause and doesn't even try to save her. Molly at her worst was willing to leave two men to be eaten.
I want Carley ;'(
Molly and Christa.
I'm neutral to Lilly and I couldn't care less about Jane.
In my case , Molly and Jane both left soo how much did they really care ? Lilly was out of her mind and in my book not too even be considered she was unstable .... I guess Christa cares the most but wtf she lost you and you went without her the whole season and I know it was not her fault but still .... Christa to Clem : Oh hey Clementine your still alive umm my bad missed you
They're all kind of lone wolves.
Lilly was in the military and is a mechanic, she's got precise aiming and has a keen eye, she's the kind of person who would do anything for the ones she loves, however, her temper and accusations can get the better of her and the death of her dead may still be the cause of her anger.
Molly was rather nice, she seems to aid those who don't oppose her and has a good intuition, she's got the ability to travel easily, great fighting skills and has a sharp eye and knows how to use things to her advantage, she seems like the type of person who would do anything for the people in her life, however, she seems secretive and driven by vengeance and hatred for Crawford.
Christa is obviously kind and caring, she knows allot about survival and can take care of herself and those around her, she's kind to children, however, Omid's death seems to still affect her, with Clementine indirectly taking part, she also doesn't like big groups and has no faith in the survival of large groups.
Jane obviously has a heart, for those that survive it seems, she's quite an expert at survival and she can use the dead to her advantage, however, she wants to be alone and doesn't want to survive alongside anyone else, she may be seductive and the death of her sister Jaime still haunts her.
1.Lilly: Huge Lilly fan and we survived before with her in charge
2.Molly: Can handle herself but she is more of a solo survivor
3.Jane: Can't trust her but same as Molly
4.Christa: Not a Christa fan.
Understanding why something happens doesn't make it any less heinous. Sorry to enact Godwin's Law right off the bat, but just because Hitler tried to join an art school and was declined does that make it any less terrible for him to commit the acts of the holocaust? Even if the school was ran primarily by Jewish men? Understanding is a tool used for justification, rejection, etc. It doesn't determine how an act should be perceived, only why it happened. It still happened. Sympathy went out the window when she shot her friend in cold blood.
She was in a tough situation, I get it. This isn't justification, this is understanding. See previous. She didn't know it was Ben. She shot and killed a trustworthy and loyal member of the group.
Lee's acts were not justifiable either. What Lee didn't do was assume something was happening and commit a terrible act. He, at the very least, had facts. Lily had emotions. Not to mention that who Lee killed wasn't a proven friend.
I FEEL YOUR PAIN!
You just said it doesn't make less heinous, but you use the same reasoning to defend Lee. And keep in mind I said Lee, not Lee's crime.
Again, this isn't about defending Lilly's crime. Just like it's off base to reduce Lee as just someone murdered his wife's lover, so is reducing Lilly as just someone who shot a group member. Lee had his redemption. Lilly didn't get a chance. Even in the short time we spent with Lilly after she snapped, she showed remorse. She also made a very good point (paraphrasing) "Lee is a murderer and you forgave him. Someday I will forgive Kenny. Can't also I be forgiven?"
If Lilly was all like "Bitch deserved what she got!' or incessantly making "I did what what I had to do!" excuses afterwards, then I'd be less inclined to give Lilly a second chance.
Christa, Though she was on bad terms with Clem, She still kept her safe and risked her life by telling Clem to run. I think if we see her again, She would be happy and sorry for treating Clem badly.
Lilly. Wouldn't trust her. She snapped and killed someone for no reason.
Molly could teach Clem a few things and it would be nice to see her again.
Jane. Doubt she will be back.