Jane wanted to be Clem's big sister. Which was fine, but the fact that she wanted Clem to herself was the problem. She "couldn't" put up with Kenny so she came up with her crazy plan. Anyone who acts like Jane's idea was "good" or "normal" is as crazy as her and Kenny. lol
Honestly had Jane just showed up with Alvin JR none of it would have happened, but then where would the drama be right? They couldn't agree on what direction to go to, and neither wanted to work with each other or ask Clem's help (or believed she would back the other). Mix all that up in a snow storm and you get a baby being hidden in a broken down car. Not a great idea.
I chose Kenny in the end and have no regret. But honestly I am actually quite moved by Jane as well. Think about it, she put hers own life i… moren all this ridiculous risk and danger just because she wants Clem to come with her. She is crazy and stupid and doing something entirely wrong IMO, but the motive makes me actually forgive her. She came back for Clem in the first place, she told her she'll never abandon her, and she stayed true to that promise, even giving away her own life in a twisted way to keep it. Deep down she really cares for Clem, and that's even harder for a loner like her and someone who have only known Clem for a few days.
It would still have either starved to death, died of hypothermia, of bacteria in it's pampers (yes, that even is possible) or suffocated. Yo… moreu can't put Kenny as the only bad guy. Jane knew exactly what would happen if something went southways, and she knew what Kenny would do (not the killing part though)
Honestly, Jane did the right thing in my eyes. True, she could have handled the actual plan in a much better way, but she had to act in the… more moment an her plan was all she had. Jane was truly scared for clementine because clem did not see just how broken kenny actually was. Jane acted out of fear, fear that clementine was in danger and sadly could not see it. Who's to say what Kenny would have done if jane had not exposed who he truly was to clem. You can (determinant) get kenny to attack clem several times throughout the episode when he is in one of his blind rages. Ask yourself this, if Kenny had not been a character in season one, would anyone have chosen him over jane. I'm willing to bet that many people would have chosen jane if that were the case. Though that is not the case, jane was right when she said that eventually clem would have to decide just how much her past with kenny meant to her.
I really only choose Kenny cuz he was friends with Lee, so you are probably right.
I liked Jane (even though I think both her and Kenny are emotionally unstable) and I was actually planning on going with her until I had that convo with Kenny in the truck and he said he wished Lee was here My Clem misses Lee so much that she couldnt bring herself to kill the only other person left who cared about him and remembered him. Clem also felt like she owed Kadjaa and Duck and couldnt just leave Kenny to go die alone in the woods so thats why she went with him at the end.
Honestly, Jane did the right thing in my eyes. True, she could have handled the actual plan in a much better way, but she had to act in the… more moment an her plan was all she had. Jane was truly scared for clementine because clem did not see just how broken kenny actually was. Jane acted out of fear, fear that clementine was in danger and sadly could not see it. Who's to say what Kenny would have done if jane had not exposed who he truly was to clem. You can (determinant) get kenny to attack clem several times throughout the episode when he is in one of his blind rages. Ask yourself this, if Kenny had not been a character in season one, would anyone have chosen him over jane. I'm willing to bet that many people would have chosen jane if that were the case. Though that is not the case, jane was right when she said that eventually clem would have to decide just how much her past with kenny meant to her.
Not murder him. Especially not before asking what happened. I'd rather not be in your group if you think murdering someone because they might have not saved someone without talking to them before. She could have tried to save the Baby and still not managed to save it and Kenny would still (have tried to) murder her. And my and most other people's Lee would certainly not be that ruthless, impulsive and evil. How someone can justify such things is beyond me...
You would probably feel just fine in Carver's Group, wouldn't you? After all, that's what he would have done. And that's the kind of thing he did do, killing people for "his" Baby. How is Kenny different at the end, murdering Jane because she might have done something bad or stupid.
TOTALLY WITH YOU 100%. Kenny is unstable as EFF and GOD help us should we lose AJ. He is a danger to us.
At least I agreed with you until I found out she lied to us.
I'm just equally as pissed as to how Jane went about to prove that point. She put the baby's life at risk, she put Clem's life at risk to prove a fucking point. 'Do you want a cookie?'
I never thought I'd see the day where I'm defending Kenny. But when I have to choose between a liar to prove a point and an unstable man who will kill over a baby that isnt his, I'm taking Kenny. I cant stand liars.
Let's be real here. Throughout both seasons, Kenny has been the main reason for most of the drama within every single group. No one is ever … moreon his side and everyone was afraid of him...except for Lee & even then, he hated Kenny's guts. I mean, you'd think that this would be enough reason to get people to leave right? Yet, some of you look at Bonnie, Mike and Jane as the bad guys for doing what they did. As it stands to show, the entire group would still be around, if it were not for Kenny & we wouldn't be in this mess. I understand that Kenny went through a lot, but even when he didn't, he still had problems.
I'll tell you this. if I was Clem and I saw what Kenny did to Jane, I'd be asking myself "What if that was ME that lost AJ". Heck, Kenny has already gotten violent at Clem and even more so, if you decided to pick Jane. At this point, Kenny is a threat to all those around him and if Lee was alive to witness this, he would've le… [view original content]
Explanation first. I want a good damn reason as to why she left her behind... I won't assume she did it out of evil and automatically try to murder her..
That's why I shot him! I really loved him, but I was no longer sure who he was anymore.. and no longer felt safe with him. I felt in my heart that at some point I would have to stop him. when Lee told me: "- Sometimes you have to do the right thing, even if it means hurting someone you love." I felt that this was for Kenny.
And then when they were fighting against each other, I looked at Kenny's crazy eyes and knew that the time had come. so I shot him. for good.
Kenny had no condition to take care of two children, he himself admitted that when he decided to "sacrifice" himself. for Clem and the baby to come into Wellington.
Let's be real here. Throughout both seasons, Kenny has been the main reason for most of the drama within every single group. No one is ever … moreon his side and everyone was afraid of him...except for Lee & even then, he hated Kenny's guts. I mean, you'd think that this would be enough reason to get people to leave right? Yet, some of you look at Bonnie, Mike and Jane as the bad guys for doing what they did. As it stands to show, the entire group would still be around, if it were not for Kenny & we wouldn't be in this mess. I understand that Kenny went through a lot, but even when he didn't, he still had problems.
I'll tell you this. if I was Clem and I saw what Kenny did to Jane, I'd be asking myself "What if that was ME that lost AJ". Heck, Kenny has already gotten violent at Clem and even more so, if you decided to pick Jane. At this point, Kenny is a threat to all those around him and if Lee was alive to witness this, he would've le… [view original content]
She schemed her way into a fight that she believed she would win (because she couldn't just murder him in cold blood right in front of Clem), and then lost. What's so hard to understand about that?
What Jane did was not right. she had good intentions, but it was completely inappropriate. Kenny was no longer thinking clearly and completely lost control after that. both made serious mistakes.
But in the end I could no longer defend Kenny. I stayed by his side for most of Season 2 but I no longer knew who or what I was defending anymore. Jane has flaws like every human-being. but at least she gets to the point and does what needs to be done. she is a valuable person to have as a companion in a post-apocalyptic world. and she is no longer that cold and distant person we met at the beginning. because of Clem, she has changed. I really like the relationship between the two. and I think both will benefit from it too.
TOTALLY WITH YOU 100%. Kenny is unstable as EFF and GOD help us should we lose AJ. He is a danger to us.
At least I agreed with you until… more I found out she lied to us.
I'm just equally as pissed as to how Jane went about to prove that point. She put the baby's life at risk, she put Clem's life at risk to prove a fucking point. 'Do you want a cookie?'
I never thought I'd see the day where I'm defending Kenny. But when I have to choose between a liar to prove a point and an unstable man who will kill over a baby that isnt his, I'm taking Kenny. I cant stand liars.
Kenny was a loose cannon from the beginning and it's just a matter of luck (or being in his sacred circle of people he doesn't brutalize for no reason) if you fall prey to this lunatic. He has his qualities just as much as any other grunt you put forward in the line to get ugly shit done, but he is a shitty leader and nobody you can put reasonable trust in. I never understood how that guy could have such a fan base, but that's probably because I am no American and can't relate to that subhuman behavior.
It's perfectly understandable to get Clem away from a guy that's only waiting for his own shitty life to end because he can't take it anymore.
Lee and Jane would have been a great tag team btw.
I think that Jane wasn't very believable as a character. They did a good job portraying Kenny as broken and unstable.
Jane however was a little scarred by the story about her sister but other than that she was very relatable. I was able to understand her points (even though I might not have shared them). So that baby stunt in the end just looks weird, and the only explanation might be that she hated Kenny so much that she ended up doing dumb things, but I can't really understand how someone that smart can come up with a plan so weird.
I felt Arvo's death glares were just inserted into the story and were poorly written. If Clem has just said at any time, "Your sister was a walker! I had to shoot her!" I doubt Arvo would've shot her.
Everyone knew as much as everyone else about Wellington, there was nothing Clem and Kenny could tell them about it to reassure them other th… morean what everyone already knew. Kenny did tell Luke about Wellington at EP2, and Carver's community already knew about it as well [thus Bonnie,Mike and Jane]. No one knew whether it really existed or not, but Kenny wanted to take the risk and follow the rumor.
And did you miss all the death glares Arvo had been giving Clem ever since she shot Natasha?
I never robbed from him, was nice to him and scolded Kenny at every turn, yet he still gave her death glares whenever she looked at him. I remember similar death glares from the moments before Lilly spontaneously killed Carley. It was the first thing I thought of when he kept staring at Clem like that. Arvo was broken and convinced that Clem killed his sister out of malice.
Please what? What kind of logic is that? So I can't try to save someone and still lose? So a Medic can't try to save someone hurt and still … morelose him? And a firefighter could not try to save someone from a burning house and still lose him/her? And didn't Clem in just the same Episode try to save Luke's life and still not save him? Would it be okay for Bonny to murder her then? In your logic, it seems that way. Before you argue, remember that Kenny didn't know what happened and that jane was messing with him.
The Baby could have been bitten while she ran into a walker, or she could have stumbled and the baby could have been bitten/eaten. Remember, it was stormy and you couldn't see far. And the Baby wasn't clued to Jane or could run away by itself.
Seriously, do you really think you can't try to save someone and still not manage to save someone?.
And how is it a stupid point if the point was 100% correct? Kenny DID go crazy, without knowing what happened.
I'm sorry Sir, but I don't think you understood Kenny's character as much as many other players did. It isn't important being american or not. I'm from Europe and I love Kenny too. And you are totally wrong when you say
It's perfectly understandable to get Clem away from a guy that's only waiting for his own shitty life to end because he can't take it anymore.
Kenny is not waiting for his life to end. Even though he never admitted it until the very last moment, all he wants is Clem and the baby to be safe. They are all his family, and he won't let them die because he owes that to himself and, mostly, to Lee.
He had his rage moments, he was dangerous when he "went off", but he never did it without a reason, which means that he's not insane. He never was. In the end, he admitted what someone truly dangerous and mad (like Carver) never did: he admitted that he was a danger to Clem. He's aware of his instable state, he knows what he's become, and this proved a great heart and intelligence.
If he wanted to die, at least he could die knowing that all his beloved ones were safe. That could not be overlooked.
Kenny was a loose cannon from the beginning and it's just a matter of luck (or being in his sacred circle of people he doesn't brutalize for… more no reason) if you fall prey to this lunatic. He has his qualities just as much as any other grunt you put forward in the line to get ugly shit done, but he is a shitty leader and nobody you can put reasonable trust in. I never understood how that guy could have such a fan base, but that's probably because I am no American and can't relate to that subhuman behavior.
It's perfectly understandable to get Clem away from a guy that's only waiting for his own shitty life to end because he can't take it anymore.
Lee and Jane would have been a great tag team btw.
Even if he cares that much, he doesn't do a good job with it by getting them into danger over and over again. I really don't care about arguing if Kenny is a "morally good " or "morally bad" person. I judge him by his actions and his actions are that of a madman. Good intentions are fine, but at the end of the day it's the action that matters. I think I understood Kenny perfectly well. He is driven by loud voices in his head and never stops to think and reflect on his behavior just for a second. That's why he is covering up his mistakes with his do-stuff attitude. His reflection stops at "feel bad, have regrets" but doesn't go any further. He doesn't learn, he doesn't understand what's wrong with his behavior, he doesn't understand when and why he does more harm than good, even to the ones he thinks he cares about. He is driven by his impulses, not by reason or rationality. That's why his loyalty (besides towards Clem because Telltale forced it) is volatile and shifts back and forth without any coherency.
Carver is a whole other matter and isn't remotely comparable to Kenny.
I'm sorry Sir, but I don't think you understood Kenny's character as much as many other players did. It isn't important being american or no… moret. I'm from Europe and I love Kenny too. And you are totally wrong when you say
It's perfectly understandable to get Clem away from a guy that's only waiting for his own shitty life to end because he can't take it anymore.
Kenny is not waiting for his life to end. Even though he never admitted it until the very last moment, all he wants is Clem and the baby to be safe. They are all his family, and he won't let them die because he owes that to himself and, mostly, to Lee.
He had his rage moments, he was dangerous when he "went off", but he never did it without a reason, which means that he's not insane. He never was. In the end, he admitted what someone truly dangerous and mad (like Carver) never did: he admitted that he was a danger to Clem. He's aware of his instable state, he knows what h… [view original content]
At the beginning of the fightJane originally never wanted Kenny dead. She wanted Clem to leave with her and leave Kenny behind, alive. She says, "I was just...going to try to talk you into coming with me. I just thought if you saw Kenny like that...you'd know we'd have to leave him." She took out her knife only after Kenny took a punch at her. And then Jane puts her knife away!, saying, "Don't you come near me, you son of a bitch." She didn't want to fight, even though she knew she was getting one. But then after they'd exchanged a few blows, if Clem says, "Jane, back off!" Jane says, "It's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery." This is the point where Jane has decided that, like others have said, Kenny would've killed Jane if AJ had died accidentally. What if that had been the case? Kenny confirms this later when he says, "I'll fuckin' kill you!" revealing his intention. Also note Jane's words--she's going to put Kenny "out of his misery." It could've been a dig at him, but she thinks it's the best thing to put him down--not necessarily kill him just to have Clem all to herself--when he's so unhinged. It's kind of like (TV Show spoilers) Carol killing Lizzie from the show.
Like others said, Jane's actions were poorly written. When that knife is inches from her heart, it makes no sense for Jane not to at least try to say, "AJ is alive; I lied," to save her skin. She's a survivor remember? Why WOULDN'T she? Her main motivation was to keep Clem safe, and if Jane had died, Jane knew Clem'd be stuck with Kenny, who's gone off the deep end in Jane's eyes. So why not make Jane actually try to live?! The only thing I can think of is Jane thought she could handle Kenny and she thought she would've been able to finish him. But still, she had plenty of breath to speak right before Kenny can plunge the knife in her (it's not even like Kenny was choking her, which would've made more sense!) Kenny says, "I'll fuckin' kill you!" to which Jane says, "I...knew you would..." How bout instead of that the writers could've had Jane say, "AJ's alive you asshole!" but noooo. Goddammit.
Jane essentially making Clem murder Kenny was just crossing the line for me. When Jane asked Clem to forgive her, I just couldn't right at that moment, though maybe I could forgive her in a few days. I've always supported Jane and tried to see the best in her since we met her; heck when she returned at the beginning of this episode I was so happy I punched the air in triumph! But I just can't get behind Jane making a murderer out of Clem, as unintentional as it was. Seeing the other Kenny-endings and the warm Kenny scenes just rubs salt in that wound. And true, Jane did warn Clem to "stay out of it," so of course Jane didn't want Clem to kill Kenny, but it's still hard for me to forgive her.... I'd still go with her for Clem's and the baby's sake, but that doesn't mean I'll forgive her right away.
Kenny didn't want to kill Jane... his mind did.
We all know Kenny is suffering from extreme grief, not only does Jane throw this in his f… moreace by continuously mentioning his family and Sarita, but she pretends to kill the last bit of hope in his life. Of course he lashed out. Jane exploited and manipulative Kenny's major fault, she knew he would kill her. She also knew Clem would see and would never forget it. Who do you chose?
Evil, Manipulative Jane OR Genuinely Grieving, Caring Kenny
So she sacrificed her own life AND risked the life of the baby just to prove a point? That's not right nor wrong, that just doesn't make any… more sense.
Seriously, plot convenience is all it is. "We really want this conflict to happen but we've wasted too much time on a bunch of undeveloped characters so now we have to force it in the last minute and hope nobody notices how it doesn't make any sense". That's the vibe I got from this ending and the game in general.
I thought she killed it or just abandoned it in the snow. She didn't answer when I asked her 'What did you do?!' and just said to not get i… moren the way of whatever happens so I figured she was gonna start some shit. I tried to de-escalate the situation, but I knew she was a loon so I let Kenny kill her in the end. Super glad I did, Kenny is the man. Just wished I hadn't pulled Kenny's arm and got him slashed as a result.
Arvo wasn't any more 'deserving' - he didn't even kill any of Kenny's group, and he'd tried to stop the gunfight once he discovered that the… morey had a baby. Kenny, on the other hand, killed one of Carver's men and brought zombies into the compound when he refused to work.
jane went to get wood for the fire bonnie fell in the lake to if clementine tryed to save luke she was just as cold as clementine mike was just watching and yelling at kenny but bonnie cared for clementine if she tryed to save luke she was very upset when avro shot clementine and told mike not to touch her to me she might try to kill avro for that
Remember this is Kenny, I think he was right to try and deal with the threat before he could do anything else. Anyway, couldn't Mike, Bonnie or Jane have started the fire?
Do THEY not care about Clem?
She was acting like she did it on purpose. Thats the key, here. If it was an accident... if she just projected that she was SORRY. But sh… moree didn't. She acted like she was glad it was gone. And that enraged Kenny, as it would enrage ANY father. And yes, Kenny is/was/will always be that boy's father.
When kenny accused her of killing the baby she said "it was an accident". Im pretty sure that was her plan, Jane fucked it up...really bad. She be Low IQ.
Kenny believed Jane was a murderer, and he was stable when he left Lilly to go fend for herself. Knowing that he believed she deliberately k… moreilled AJ, he had every right to kill her. What if she "kills" another being to prove a point? She is unstable. Kenny may bad mouth all he wants, but he does protect his group. The group that even got Kenny's original group in trouble in the first place. He lost his good friend Walt, Sarita, Katjaa (forgive my spelling), and his only son. Walt and Sarita's death were led by Clem's group luring him there in the first place.
He has every right to bad mouth all he wants. Jane even provoked him more by mentioning that Kenny's attitude leads the group to failure because of his family. Now she wants to prove her point of his outrage by abandoning a baby in a car and making him believe AJ was killed? Not happening. She's a psycho who wants to ditch everything for dead and keep Clementine to herself as a replac… [view original content]
Lilly killed a person that was standing up for herself because she was being bullied by her.
Jane shows up and gives off an impression sh… moree killed the baby, pulls out a knife ready for a fight, she was pushing and pushing him until she finally got her wish. She put a baby in danger just to prove a point.
Can't understand why Lilly fans would think what Kenny did was the same as what Lilly did.
Remember this is Kenny, I think he was right to try and deal with the threat before he could do anything else. Anyway, couldn't Mike, Bonnie or Jane have started the fire?
Do THEY not care about Clem?
Jane's only evidence of Kenny being a hot headed loose canon was from the way he treated Arvo who not long ago she threatened and robbed him at gun point. She was trying to turn Clementine against him by comparing him with Carver who beats kids and kills the handicapped. Did Kenny try to harm Mike or Bonnie or Luke or Jane herself before the stunt she pulled? Jane has done nothing but push him especially in the car and when Kenny gets out to search for fuel, she's telling Clementine to leave him for dead, trying to turn her cold as her. She wanted a fight by using a baby's death to provoke him and made Clementine have the option to shoot him, she knows how much Clem cared for him and for her to put her in that situation is cold. She wanted Kenny gone, she could've ended that fight at anytime but chose to go along with it just so she can kill him in self defense. She did it to have Clementine for herself as she was a replacement for her dead sister. She put the baby in danger and got Clem's friend killed just to prove an unnecessary point, she caused conflict and death when there shouldn't have been any, she's a cold lying manipulator.
As for Kenny, yes he was a broken man but people are acting like he was a brutal tyrant. In a span of one week he lost his home at the lodge, two friends Walter & Matthew, his girlfriend Sarita, beaten half to death which resulted him losing an eye, being in charge of a bunch bickering idiots who came to him for help, he had a baby to care for and a little girl he had not seen which was his only hope of happiness who could've lost their lives in a shootout, lost Luke who he made peace with, Mike & Bonnie betraying him because apparently they didn't like his treatment of Arvo who led a gang to ambush his group, Clementine ends up getting shot because of those two idiots who did nothing but bicker at Kenny all the way, driving through the snow with a child that was shot while a crazy woman he doesn't trust and has a history of leaving people is pressing his buttons. None of this made Kenny into deranged loose canon and keeping it together but the reality of a baby he cared for dies in a womans hand, mind you that same woman is the one he doesn't trust and keeps her details short and doesn't going into much but pulls out her knife and threatens him, a man can only take so much.
Jane provoked him and caused a situation that put herself and a man in danger which would lead a little girl who cares for him to shoot him dead. She caused trouble when there should not have been any. You may think Kenny was insane but he cared about Clem & the baby and Jane toyed with emotions. She gave Kenny enough reason to attack, like I said, she kept her details short and vague and didn't want to end the conflict.
I'm going to break this down. lets start with Jane
Jane first of all was right. Kenny is a hot headed loose cannon. Especially dangerous … morewhen anything gets between him the baby or Clem, but at some point unreasonably so. I understand what Jane was doing. She was baiting the bull and dragging the situation out to show it's ferocious nature. She was wrong for that and therefore a kind of a deceptive (fill in blank here).
Okay Kenny is broken man. He is someone who is extremely strong and weak willed at the same time. He able to fix himself by latching on to something else. That something else is always something to represents hope to him. And every time he loses that hope he breaks down (the boat, Sarita, the baby) only to eventually bring himself up however chaotic. Kenny has every right to be angry but he does not have the right to assume someones actions and be judge, jury and executioner. Just because someone has a trouble past were t… [view original content]
I get your point, and you're right when saying that Kenny is sometimes "blinded" by his impulses. But all those "loud voices" inside him are not the only ones which he listens to: you should add Clementine's voice to them. How many times did he stop because Clem had told him? A lot.
You judge him by his actions. That's funny, I actually do the same. And his actions at the end of the episode are precious, because they make you realize how hard he wanted to get to that point.
All he thinks about is feeling bad and having regrets? Who doesn't have regrets? Especially a man who's lost everything in his life. He can feel bad about what he did to Clementine, about what he did to the others, but if his thoughts had actually stopped there he would have never cared about the baby so much, and that's because he had a project in his mind: he wanted to start all over again. That obviously doesn't erase all his regrets, but it's some kind of hope for the future. And as long as you have a hope, you are not to throw away. Jane had also a plan (getting to a warm place), right, but you don't know her actual intentions... because she never told you that!
That's why his loyalty is volatile.
Honestly, do you think Jane is any better? She's basically Molly from S1ep4, all badass, cool and stuff, with the only difference that she's suddenly back, and for the entire episode she doesn't know wether to stay with them or leave. And then what? She try to get Kenny mad pretending to have failed to protect the baby, because she wanted Clem to see how desperate he was? "Hey, Clem, look! Kenny is a heartless monster! He wants to kill me! Shoot him!"
You said that Kenny never stops to reflect on his behaviour. Well, maybe that's the case that Jane would start to do that too.
Even if he cares that much, he doesn't do a good job with it by getting them into danger over and over again. I really don't care about argu… moreing if Kenny is a "morally good " or "morally bad" person. I judge him by his actions and his actions are that of a madman. Good intentions are fine, but at the end of the day it's the action that matters. I think I understood Kenny perfectly well. He is driven by loud voices in his head and never stops to think and reflect on his behavior just for a second. That's why he is covering up his mistakes with his do-stuff attitude. His reflection stops at "feel bad, have regrets" but doesn't go any further. He doesn't learn, he doesn't understand what's wrong with his behavior, he doesn't understand when and why he does more harm than good, even to the ones he thinks he cares about. He is driven by his impulses, not by reason or rationality. That's why his loyalty (besides towards Clem because Telltale forced … [view original content]
Comments
I'm not leaving you, Kenny. I couldn't do it..
Bonnie, Mike, Jane and the others - fuck 'em.
Jane wanted to be Clem's big sister. Which was fine, but the fact that she wanted Clem to herself was the problem. She "couldn't" put up with Kenny so she came up with her crazy plan. Anyone who acts like Jane's idea was "good" or "normal" is as crazy as her and Kenny. lol
Honestly had Jane just showed up with Alvin JR none of it would have happened, but then where would the drama be right? They couldn't agree on what direction to go to, and neither wanted to work with each other or ask Clem's help (or believed she would back the other). Mix all that up in a snow storm and you get a baby being hidden in a broken down car. Not a great idea.
Is the baby even wearing pampers..? I didn't see the group bringing one.
jane did the right thing
I really only choose Kenny cuz he was friends with Lee, so you are probably right.
I liked Jane (even though I think both her and Kenny are emotionally unstable) and I was actually planning on going with her until I had that convo with Kenny in the truck and he said he wished Lee was here
My Clem misses Lee so much that she couldnt bring herself to kill the only other person left who cared about him and remembered him. Clem also felt like she owed Kadjaa and Duck and couldnt just leave Kenny to go die alone in the woods so thats why she went with him at the end.
Not murder him. Especially not before asking what happened. I'd rather not be in your group if you think murdering someone because they might have not saved someone without talking to them before. She could have tried to save the Baby and still not managed to save it and Kenny would still (have tried to) murder her. And my and most other people's Lee would certainly not be that ruthless, impulsive and evil. How someone can justify such things is beyond me...
You would probably feel just fine in Carver's Group, wouldn't you? After all, that's what he would have done. And that's the kind of thing he did do, killing people for "his" Baby. How is Kenny different at the end, murdering Jane because she might have done something bad or stupid.
DOUBLE POST
TOTALLY WITH YOU 100%. Kenny is unstable as EFF and GOD help us should we lose AJ. He is a danger to us.
At least I agreed with you until I found out she lied to us.
I'm just equally as pissed as to how Jane went about to prove that point. She put the baby's life at risk, she put Clem's life at risk to prove a fucking point. 'Do you want a cookie?'
I never thought I'd see the day where I'm defending Kenny. But when I have to choose between a liar to prove a point and an unstable man who will kill over a baby that isnt his, I'm taking Kenny. I cant stand liars.
Agree!
I agree!
That's why I shot him! I really loved him, but I was no longer sure who he was anymore.. and no longer felt safe with him. I felt in my heart that at some point I would have to stop him. when Lee told me: "- Sometimes you have to do the right thing, even if it means hurting someone you love." I felt that this was for Kenny.
And then when they were fighting against each other, I looked at Kenny's crazy eyes and knew that the time had come. so I shot him. for good.
Kenny had no condition to take care of two children, he himself admitted that when he decided to "sacrifice" himself. for Clem and the baby to come into Wellington.
Well, she put away the knife. (Not trying to defend her, just saying)
What Jane did was not right. she had good intentions, but it was completely inappropriate. Kenny was no longer thinking clearly and completely lost control after that. both made serious mistakes.
But in the end I could no longer defend Kenny. I stayed by his side for most of Season 2 but I no longer knew who or what I was defending anymore. Jane has flaws like every human-being. but at least she gets to the point and does what needs to be done. she is a valuable person to have as a companion in a post-apocalyptic world. and she is no longer that cold and distant person we met at the beginning. because of Clem, she has changed. I really like the relationship between the two. and I think both will benefit from it too.
Kenny was a loose cannon from the beginning and it's just a matter of luck (or being in his sacred circle of people he doesn't brutalize for no reason) if you fall prey to this lunatic. He has his qualities just as much as any other grunt you put forward in the line to get ugly shit done, but he is a shitty leader and nobody you can put reasonable trust in. I never understood how that guy could have such a fan base, but that's probably because I am no American and can't relate to that subhuman behavior.
It's perfectly understandable to get Clem away from a guy that's only waiting for his own shitty life to end because he can't take it anymore.
Lee and Jane would have been a great tag team btw.
I think that Jane wasn't very believable as a character. They did a good job portraying Kenny as broken and unstable.
Jane however was a little scarred by the story about her sister but other than that she was very relatable. I was able to understand her points (even though I might not have shared them). So that baby stunt in the end just looks weird, and the only explanation might be that she hated Kenny so much that she ended up doing dumb things, but I can't really understand how someone that smart can come up with a plan so weird.
I felt Arvo's death glares were just inserted into the story and were poorly written. If Clem has just said at any time, "Your sister was a walker! I had to shoot her!" I doubt Arvo would've shot her.
A baby is very different from a soldier in battle, or any fully grown human. It's unreasonable for you to compare them.
Again, the baby being bit by a walker whilst being carried by someone who ended up unscathed? Pretty much impossible.
A lot of people would go crazy in that scenario, myself included. It was heavily implied by Jane what happened.
How come everyone with a Lilly avatar happens to be an asshole?
I'm sorry Sir, but I don't think you understood Kenny's character as much as many other players did. It isn't important being american or not. I'm from Europe and I love Kenny too. And you are totally wrong when you say
Kenny is not waiting for his life to end. Even though he never admitted it until the very last moment, all he wants is Clem and the baby to be safe. They are all his family, and he won't let them die because he owes that to himself and, mostly, to Lee.
He had his rage moments, he was dangerous when he "went off", but he never did it without a reason, which means that he's not insane. He never was. In the end, he admitted what someone truly dangerous and mad (like Carver) never did: he admitted that he was a danger to Clem. He's aware of his instable state, he knows what he's become, and this proved a great heart and intelligence.
If he wanted to die, at least he could die knowing that all his beloved ones were safe. That could not be overlooked.
Even if he cares that much, he doesn't do a good job with it by getting them into danger over and over again. I really don't care about arguing if Kenny is a "morally good " or "morally bad" person. I judge him by his actions and his actions are that of a madman. Good intentions are fine, but at the end of the day it's the action that matters. I think I understood Kenny perfectly well. He is driven by loud voices in his head and never stops to think and reflect on his behavior just for a second. That's why he is covering up his mistakes with his do-stuff attitude. His reflection stops at "feel bad, have regrets" but doesn't go any further. He doesn't learn, he doesn't understand what's wrong with his behavior, he doesn't understand when and why he does more harm than good, even to the ones he thinks he cares about. He is driven by his impulses, not by reason or rationality. That's why his loyalty (besides towards Clem because Telltale forced it) is volatile and shifts back and forth without any coherency.
Carver is a whole other matter and isn't remotely comparable to Kenny.
At the beginning of the fight Jane originally never wanted Kenny dead. She wanted Clem to leave with her and leave Kenny behind, alive. She says, "I was just...going to try to talk you into coming with me. I just thought if you saw Kenny like that...you'd know we'd have to leave him." She took out her knife only after Kenny took a punch at her. And then Jane puts her knife away!, saying, "Don't you come near me, you son of a bitch." She didn't want to fight, even though she knew she was getting one. But then after they'd exchanged a few blows, if Clem says, "Jane, back off!" Jane says, "It's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery." This is the point where Jane has decided that, like others have said, Kenny would've killed Jane if AJ had died accidentally. What if that had been the case? Kenny confirms this later when he says, "I'll fuckin' kill you!" revealing his intention. Also note Jane's words--she's going to put Kenny "out of his misery." It could've been a dig at him, but she thinks it's the best thing to put him down--not necessarily kill him just to have Clem all to herself--when he's so unhinged. It's kind of like (TV Show spoilers) Carol killing Lizzie from the show.
Like others said, Jane's actions were poorly written. When that knife is inches from her heart, it makes no sense for Jane not to at least try to say, "AJ is alive; I lied," to save her skin. She's a survivor remember? Why WOULDN'T she? Her main motivation was to keep Clem safe, and if Jane had died, Jane knew Clem'd be stuck with Kenny, who's gone off the deep end in Jane's eyes. So why not make Jane actually try to live?! The only thing I can think of is Jane thought she could handle Kenny and she thought she would've been able to finish him. But still, she had plenty of breath to speak right before Kenny can plunge the knife in her (it's not even like Kenny was choking her, which would've made more sense!) Kenny says, "I'll fuckin' kill you!" to which Jane says, "I...knew you would..." How bout instead of that the writers could've had Jane say, "AJ's alive you asshole!" but noooo. Goddammit.
Jane essentially making Clem murder Kenny was just crossing the line for me. When Jane asked Clem to forgive her, I just couldn't right at that moment, though maybe I could forgive her in a few days. I've always supported Jane and tried to see the best in her since we met her; heck when she returned at the beginning of this episode I was so happy I punched the air in triumph! But I just can't get behind Jane making a murderer out of Clem, as unintentional as it was. Seeing the other Kenny-endings and the warm Kenny scenes just rubs salt in that wound. And true, Jane did warn Clem to "stay out of it," so of course Jane didn't want Clem to kill Kenny, but it's still hard for me to forgive her....
I'd still go with her for Clem's and the baby's sake, but that doesn't mean I'll forgive her right away.
Don't talk about my daughter like that, or i'll sock ya good.
Her brain certainly failed her, that's for sure. She got what she asked for.
I killed Kenny, Has was crazy. I also left Jane. I kind of give up with people.
Damn double post sorry.
You have to admit that attacking a woman and trying to murder her for saying she lost a baby by accident is a bit far.
in my main save kenny killed jane and clementine killed kenny and left
She didn't intend for the fight to get that bad. Hater gonna hate though. This ep redeemed 3 and 4 for me but some people are never happy eh? Nitpicks
Jane is the only loon eh? Awks much
That's messed up though
Bonnie=Hypocrite
Only if Arvo listened to Kenny he wouldn't have got pushed around.
jane went to get wood for the fire bonnie fell in the lake to if clementine tryed to save luke she was just as cold as clementine mike was just watching and yelling at kenny but bonnie cared for clementine if she tryed to save luke she was very upset when avro shot clementine and told mike not to touch her to me she might try to kill avro for that
Alvin was that kid's father. But Kenny was the kid's guardian
The walker guts, nail file, kicking walker's legs and making sure they're killed says no to that
Don't forget Matt
"Lilly fans" Biased much? Liking a character doesn't imply anything about another character
The threat was Clem freezing not Arvo. Personal grudges should always come after child's safety
Jane's only evidence of Kenny being a hot headed loose canon was from the way he treated Arvo who not long ago she threatened and robbed him at gun point. She was trying to turn Clementine against him by comparing him with Carver who beats kids and kills the handicapped. Did Kenny try to harm Mike or Bonnie or Luke or Jane herself before the stunt she pulled? Jane has done nothing but push him especially in the car and when Kenny gets out to search for fuel, she's telling Clementine to leave him for dead, trying to turn her cold as her. She wanted a fight by using a baby's death to provoke him and made Clementine have the option to shoot him, she knows how much Clem cared for him and for her to put her in that situation is cold. She wanted Kenny gone, she could've ended that fight at anytime but chose to go along with it just so she can kill him in self defense. She did it to have Clementine for herself as she was a replacement for her dead sister. She put the baby in danger and got Clem's friend killed just to prove an unnecessary point, she caused conflict and death when there shouldn't have been any, she's a cold lying manipulator.
As for Kenny, yes he was a broken man but people are acting like he was a brutal tyrant. In a span of one week he lost his home at the lodge, two friends Walter & Matthew, his girlfriend Sarita, beaten half to death which resulted him losing an eye, being in charge of a bunch bickering idiots who came to him for help, he had a baby to care for and a little girl he had not seen which was his only hope of happiness who could've lost their lives in a shootout, lost Luke who he made peace with, Mike & Bonnie betraying him because apparently they didn't like his treatment of Arvo who led a gang to ambush his group, Clementine ends up getting shot because of those two idiots who did nothing but bicker at Kenny all the way, driving through the snow with a child that was shot while a crazy woman he doesn't trust and has a history of leaving people is pressing his buttons. None of this made Kenny into deranged loose canon and keeping it together but the reality of a baby he cared for dies in a womans hand, mind you that same woman is the one he doesn't trust and keeps her details short and doesn't going into much but pulls out her knife and threatens him, a man can only take so much.
Jane provoked him and caused a situation that put herself and a man in danger which would lead a little girl who cares for him to shoot him dead. She caused trouble when there should not have been any. You may think Kenny was insane but he cared about Clem & the baby and Jane toyed with emotions. She gave Kenny enough reason to attack, like I said, she kept her details short and vague and didn't want to end the conflict.
I get your point, and you're right when saying that Kenny is sometimes "blinded" by his impulses. But all those "loud voices" inside him are not the only ones which he listens to: you should add Clementine's voice to them. How many times did he stop because Clem had told him? A lot.
You judge him by his actions. That's funny, I actually do the same. And his actions at the end of the episode are precious, because they make you realize how hard he wanted to get to that point.
All he thinks about is feeling bad and having regrets? Who doesn't have regrets? Especially a man who's lost everything in his life. He can feel bad about what he did to Clementine, about what he did to the others, but if his thoughts had actually stopped there he would have never cared about the baby so much, and that's because he had a project in his mind: he wanted to start all over again. That obviously doesn't erase all his regrets, but it's some kind of hope for the future. And as long as you have a hope, you are not to throw away. Jane had also a plan (getting to a warm place), right, but you don't know her actual intentions... because she never told you that!
Honestly, do you think Jane is any better? She's basically Molly from S1ep4, all badass, cool and stuff, with the only difference that she's suddenly back, and for the entire episode she doesn't know wether to stay with them or leave. And then what? She try to get Kenny mad pretending to have failed to protect the baby, because she wanted Clem to see how desperate he was? "Hey, Clem, look! Kenny is a heartless monster! He wants to kill me! Shoot him!"
You said that Kenny never stops to reflect on his behaviour. Well, maybe that's the case that Jane would start to do that too.
Both Kenny and Jane are monsters of a different kind.
In the end, I chose to partake in neither of their sick fallacies any longer and went off on my own. Mexico, here I come!