She makes no real attempt at explaining anything. And she has plenty of time
This is bullshit. I watched the fight several times to make sure I got it. Was it the part where he came at her assuming she murdered the baby? Was it when she said it was an accident and he yells Bullshit interupting her? Apparently during a life or death struggle is "plenty of time" to explain.
Like Kenny was interested in anything Jane might have said.
She never actually calls for Clem to kill Kenny. When you have someone on top of you who's about to jam a knife in your chest, "Help!" seems… more like a reasonable thing to call out.
I recommend you replay that scene and don't pick up the gun. Jane only calls for "help" when she sees Clem pointing the gun at Kenny.
Suppose she wasn't lying about AJ. Think about what Kenny did. He murdered a member of the group based on the assumption that they did something wrong.
Now what exactly did Jane explain? She just claims once that it was an accident. That's it. She makes no real attempt at explaining anything. And she has plenty of time. And that's where the Lilly situation was fundamentally different. Lilly interrogates Ben. There is quite a lot of talking on Lillys, Bens and Dougs/Carleys side. Lilly has no real reason or evidence that any of them cooperated with the bandits and she arbitrarily executes one of them without being t… [view original content]
If Jane needing Clem is selfish then Kenny needing AJ is even more selfish. He put every thing had left into that baby. Thats why it was so easy for him to lose it on Jane. The Kenny apologists act like he never would do that to anyone... Jane proved he would. Anything happens to that baby under Clem's watch and I GUARANTEE he'd lose it just as badly. He had his blinders on to anything but AJ.
But you know. Jane's the "Selfish" one for trying to save Clem from that.
You do realise that all you said about Jane 'needed' Clem to survive could just as easily be said about Kenny and the baby and clem, right?
Yet I don't see you saying he's selfish.
So, using your Logic, Kenny is selfish too for needing the baby for himself to survive mentally.
That is fan made speculation. No wh… moreere in the game is this proven or hinted to.
He helped bring the baby into the world when no one else could, and immediately started taking care of it as Rebecca was trying to recover. There are other reasons for him taking care of the baby besides him trying survive mentally.
Even if you are correct in your assumption, you are not really talking about a conscious decision.
Yeah but I don't think jane would have thought she would die. Jane bet on herself to beat Kenny in a fight and believed that if any trouble came she would rely on Clem for help. She could have easily dropped the baby in the snow or buried it or even killed it with her knife but she put it in a car. I think she just wanted to leave Kenny and take Clem. How else could she convince Clem and Kenny to separate. Getting Kenny to fight her and kill him is the best option in janes mind.
He isn't. People tend to sometimes think he is because his opinions fall in the minority.. but he was always looking out for the interest of… more the group. For everyone refusing to get on board with his plans, he turned out to be correct though. If I were him, I would be very frustrated as well.
If anyone was selfish it was the group around him. Whenever they really needed his help they came crawling, but the minute they disagreed with one of his plans, he would just become some crazy suicidal idiot in their minds.
In a lot of ways he was becoming Carver. The fact that he beat Arvo up for being there when Luke did... The constant anger he exhibited to people who disagreed with him.
Keep in mind back in episode 3 Bonnie says about Carver "he wasn't always like this" implying that something happened that turned him so ruthless. People change. Kenny was no longer just being angry at people who disagreed with him. He was becoming more violent.
I explained every reason why Jane is selfish. Hell I even compared her to another selfish character.
Kenny proved he wasn't Carver and he … morewasn't selfish in his ending.
And that makes me a hypocrite? xD.
I wasn't even a Kenny fan before this episode.
Oh yeah, Kenny was SUCH A MONSTER in the endings where you get with him to Wellington...
Yeah, indeed.
"If she had said he was safe I'… mored stopped. Geez, Clementine, I didn't want to do that but... but..." "Take the kid and the baby, you can make room for them. Please, I need to know they will be safe." "Go Clem, go to a place where you can be kid for a while... you don't want to sleep with a gun next to you every day. A place where you and AJ will be safe."
100% Carverish. Totally.
He's so Carverish Carver isn't so Carverish after comparing him and Carver in terms on who's more like Carver in terms of Carverism.
There was no manipulation whatsoever. I just happened to agree with everything she was saying about Kenny.
If you're going to say that pe… moreople were tricked into siding with Jane, then I'm going to say that people only sided with Kenny because they were intimidated by him into doing so.
And in the real world the judge would totally accept "she manipulated him into killing her"... No wait you don't blame someone for their death like that. She made a mistake but she didn't deserve to die. When someone with anger issues kill someone you don't blame the person they killed. Believe it or not but no sane person would accept that. Just because she fought back doesn't mean she wasn't the victim here.
Maybe not for you, but I guarantee tons of people were tricked into shooting him. Because of the way the scene was set up. Kenny attacks fir… morest and Kenny gets the upper hand in the end. Making Jane look like the victim and Kenny the villain. Which isn't the case because it was Jane's fault. She wanted Kenny out of the picture and tried to turn Clem against Kenny all because she wants Clem to herself.
Tell that to Jane.
Even if my Clem made clear to her she trusted Kenny no matter what and wanted to go with him to Wellington, Jane still… more had to pull a sick manipulative game to force her into reconsidering her opinion.
Guess Clem was a puppy who couldn't make her own decisions in Jane's eyes.
While Kenny was pacing around, I would have taken that chance to rationalize and explain and right before Jane sheathes her knife Kenny just stands there, but Jane resorted to saying, she won't back down.
She makes no real attempt at explaining anything. And she has plenty of time
This is bullshit. I watched the fight several times to… more make sure I got it. Was it the part where he came at her assuming she murdered the baby? Was it when she said it was an accident and he yells Bullshit interupting her? Apparently during a life or death struggle is "plenty of time" to explain.
Like Kenny was interested in anything Jane might have said.
Very good explanation. Whether people want to blame Kenny for his violent reaction or not, there is no way what Jane did in this situation s… morehould be considered morally acceptable. She didn't prove herself to be any better than Kenny. She was a huge hypocrite.
Say what you will about Kenny, but I would rather have him look after Clem any day of the week than a backstabbing, manipulative, dishonest, self serving person like Jane. At least Kenny had a good heart and meant well. Meanwhile he is easily as capable as Jane in regards to survival. I don't know why anyone would want Clem around Jane, yet be totally against Clem being around Kenny. It really doesn't make any sense at all.
While Kenny was pacing around, I would have taken that chance to rationalize and explain and right before Jane sheathes her knife Kenny just stands there, but Jane resorted to saying, she won't back down.
He wasn't trying to kill Jane until she tried to kill him. Regardless, Jane had a perfect opportunity to end the fight when Kenny ran away o… moreutside. He wasn't even trying to fight her when he first went out there. Jane sprinted out after him with her knife and made it clear that she was going to kill him. All the while he was just backing away. She then tried to stab and slash him.. even though he wasn't even fighting her. Instead of trying to kill him, she could have explained that the baby was still alive.
Good argument. 10/10. Totally changed everyone's perspective on the issue. Nice job.
Seriously though, I am willing to discuss with you if you actually feel like trying to make some points. Sitting here dishing out baseless insults is just a waste of your time and it doesn't prove anything. Nothing about my points are delusional at all. I have strictly been talking about what actually happened in the game.
he came back for the group, so clearly she isn't selfish.
She didn't really come back for the group though. She came back because sh… moree decided she liked Clem too much to leave her. She admits as much.
Jane was right. She didn't trick anyone or manipulate anyone lol
There really isn't even any possible way to dispute that she didn't manipulate anyone. She completely set up Kenny. Obviously the baby wasn't actually dead. The whole point of what she was doing was to enrage Kenny with a false story about his adopted baby being dead.
Manipulate:
* "To manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner: to manipulate people's feelings."
* "To adapt or change (accounts, figures, etc.) to suit one's purpose or advantage."
Yeah. She manipulated both Kenny and Clem.
She literally proved us completely right at how angry Kenny got.
She didn't prove anything of substance really. She proved that a… [view original content]
There's something to be said that Jane stated her interest in ditching the baby yet she left the baby close enough to be heard.
Thats what babies do. They cry. They make noises. Jane could have just as easily left the baby further away where it wouldn't have been heard or even made sure the baby died. Instead she made it possible for them to hear the baby. What I find funny is that the baby doesn't make any noises until AFTER the fighting. Nice timing there.
I would like to point out a possibility in Jane's plan. Something I don't think she thought about, and something that is greatly overlooked … morehere.
What if AJ didn't start crying, and Jane died in the confrontation? She was the only one that knew where AJ was, and it seemed to me that Kenny and Clem both had the firm belief that the baby was dead. Would AJ have froze/starved to death if he didn't start crying?
In this case, if AJ didn't start crying, and they never found him, would this be Jane's fault for hiding him? I mean, you can't blame Kenny and Clem for simply not finding him. In this hypothetical situation, would Jane have killed AJ?
You're wasting your time. Belan thinks Kenny is perfect in every way and nothing anyone says will get through that Kenny was looking for blood the second he thought the baby was dead.
You guys are missing the whole point of the episode, or even the entire series for that matter. That moment in the RV is when the whole season came together for me, that's when I figured it out. I'll quote Lee Everett here.
"Part of growing up is doing what's best for people you care about... Even if it means hurting someone else."
It's all about the choices you make, attempt to make, or are forced to make. You gotta do what you think is best, and I don't care who you are, you're going to fuck up royally at LEAST once, and at great costs. You can only do so much, you can only do what you think is best for those you care about the most, for those that you've got left. The thing is you have to realize that goes for everybody, the player isn't the only one making tough choices.
I blame neither Jane nor Kenny, or anyone else for that matter throughout the entire series. These people have been through unspeakable, dark shit, things that we could never imagine. Things that will change the very person you thought you were, for better AND for worse. We can argue about it here from our perspective all we want, but try as we may we don't truly understand their situation. We're not in survival mode. We don't have to worry about monsters chewing our faces off, or scavenging for food, water, supplies, etc. and the stress that comes with it every, single day of your miserable existence just so you can live to repeat the process over and over, until you and all those you have ever cared about are finally dead and gone.
They did what they thought was right, and maybe they were wrong in their execution, but they were wrong for the right reasons (That's another quote from the game, not word for word though). Kenny saw Arvo as a threat, and rightfully so. Sure he went overboard, but honestly, can you really blame him? He did have the group's best interests involved. Keeping the enemy secured and finding food, water, and shelter, something they were going to die pretty quickly without. So Jane misses her sister, she's tired of being alone and without someone to call family, as is Kenny. She was absolutely wrong for manipulating Clementine the way she did, it was in a way selfish because it was mostly for Jane, but I would be wrong to say she didn't care about Clementine. I'm not sure how much she cares about AJ, that was a wreck-less thing to do with him and she does think he's a liability, but I don't think she would kill him or put him in harms way again.
Another thing I've learned, from the comics especially, is that people's deaths can be so sudden and unjustified, like Luke's death especially. He didn't deserve to go out like that, he just drowned in a situation that could have easily been avoided, just like Jane or Kenny. It sucks, it wasn't what he deserved, but that shit happens out of nowhere and for no good reason, it just does. You have to accept it, especially in a world like that. I would have liked to see Luke's character develop, but I can't say his death didn't add a tone and concept that was needed to accurately represent their world. It hit me pretty hard, this whole game series did. Telltale really know what they're doing, and I applaud them for that.
You're wasting your time. Belan thinks Kenny is perfect in every way and nothing anyone says will get through that Kenny was looking for blood the second he thought the baby was dead.
Well, the idea of hypotheticals is the present an idea of possibilities. The main argument of the hypothesis is "What if AJ never started crying?" Yes, I know he did, and yes, he was hidden close by, but imagine if AJ never cried after Jane died? Imagine if Clem and Kenny actually believed him to be dead, and left him to die inadvertently? I'm not questioning Jane's thought-process or back-up strategies, I'm just presenting food for thought.
There's something to be said that Jane stated her interest in ditching the baby yet she left the baby close enough to be heard.
Thats wha… moret babies do. They cry. They make noises. Jane could have just as easily left the baby further away where it wouldn't have been heard or even made sure the baby died. Instead she made it possible for them to hear the baby. What I find funny is that the baby doesn't make any noises until AFTER the fighting. Nice timing there.
He lashes out at Clem for getting Sarita killed "but he apologized"
Then he lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him "He's just looking out for the group" Yeah thats why almost everyone else ditched us
Then he beats a defenseless prisoner "Arvo deserved everything he got" Yes its easy to say that now AFTER he shoots us. But before that the only crime Arvo committed was being there after Luke died.
"Jane was egging him on in the car bringing up his dead family" And the entire time Kenny was being a reasonable nice guy? This is what happens when people argue. They get heated they don't think of what they're saying. Seems to happen a lot with Kenny.
Then the fight. What it all comes down to. I've lost count of how many people say Jane "manipulated" Kenny into it. Well whose fucking fault is that? Kenny was displaying real anger issues. He was bordering on violent when people just disagree with him. He scared Mike and Bonnie away and the only reason I stuck with him as long as I did was because the game never gave me choice not to. Jane made a mistake but because it effected Kenny she's automatically the bad guy. I can easily side with Jane here because I don't have my blinders on when it comes to what Kenny's been up to. He does something and then says sorry about it later.
"but he redeemed himself in the end by getting Clem and AJ to Wellington" That isn't redemption. Doing one good thing doesn't automatically erase all the bad. That doesn't make murder better. Thats like if I had shot someone in the head in cold blood and then expecting everyone to forgive me just because I donated to charity. Thats not how it works people!
Redemption is what he did in season 1 sacrificing himself for Ben. Man that was such a better way for him to go then to have him come back and force himself into the story again.
None of the fighting would have happened, if Jane just went into the building with AJ.
This much we can agree on.
Though then whe… moren the baby died later, perhaps Kenny bashes Clem's skull in, instead of it being directed at a prepared and ready Jane. Or perhaps he kills himself, or perhaps gives up and does nothing.
Jane's plan was hinging on Kenny's instability. In my playthrough he literally promised Clem that he wouldn't lose his temper like that again - and then he goes ahead and loses his temper.
You're wasting your time. Belan thinks Kenny is perfect in every way and nothing anyone says will get through that Kenny was looking for blood the second he thought the baby was dead.
My biggest problem with this season was how it all became about Kenny. I tried to play the mediator asking everyone to stop arguing and it was still assumed I was on Kenny's side. There's no avoiding it because it forces this attachment to Kenny. I'm like why can't I leave with Jane? I agree with her!
The baby was not my top priority. The entire group voted to go south and Kenny told me I was embarrassing him.. still surprised we went nort… moreh. Kenny singlehandedly tore apart a very beautiful group with his stubbornness and selfishness. You know you fucked up when even Mike wants to get away from you. lol
If Jane knew that Kenny is unstable and could not be brought back even by Clem, and then told Clem to stay out of the fight anyway, and then gets overpowered by Kenny then this shows she makes stupid plans(most of the time, I agreed with her plan to walker gut our way out, if it weren't for those damned guards shooting Carlos and making the plan go down the toilet.)
Well, the idea of hypotheticals is the present an idea of possibilities. The main argument of the hypothesis is "What if AJ never started cr… moreying?" Yes, I know he did, and yes, he was hidden close by, but imagine if AJ never cried after Jane died? Imagine if Clem and Kenny actually believed him to be dead, and left him to die inadvertently? I'm not questioning Jane's thought-process or back-up strategies, I'm just presenting food for thought.
What do you think of it?
Comments
This is bullshit. I watched the fight several times to make sure I got it. Was it the part where he came at her assuming she murdered the baby? Was it when she said it was an accident and he yells Bullshit interupting her? Apparently during a life or death struggle is "plenty of time" to explain.
Like Kenny was interested in anything Jane might have said.
If Jane needing Clem is selfish then Kenny needing AJ is even more selfish. He put every thing had left into that baby. Thats why it was so easy for him to lose it on Jane. The Kenny apologists act like he never would do that to anyone... Jane proved he would. Anything happens to that baby under Clem's watch and I GUARANTEE he'd lose it just as badly. He had his blinders on to anything but AJ.
But you know. Jane's the "Selfish" one for trying to save Clem from that.
Fan speculation? So the Kenny vs Jane fight is fanfiction now?
Yeah. Had it coming. Just like Carley for calling Lilly a bitch.
And Jane isn't selfish either. Her ending proves it.
Yeah but I don't think jane would have thought she would die. Jane bet on herself to beat Kenny in a fight and believed that if any trouble came she would rely on Clem for help. She could have easily dropped the baby in the snow or buried it or even killed it with her knife but she put it in a car. I think she just wanted to leave Kenny and take Clem. How else could she convince Clem and Kenny to separate. Getting Kenny to fight her and kill him is the best option in janes mind.
He's not. But neither is Jane.
Or you know in reality.
In a lot of ways he was becoming Carver. The fact that he beat Arvo up for being there when Luke did... The constant anger he exhibited to people who disagreed with him.
Keep in mind back in episode 3 Bonnie says about Carver "he wasn't always like this" implying that something happened that turned him so ruthless. People change. Kenny was no longer just being angry at people who disagreed with him. He was becoming more violent.
TIL doing something good completely erases the bad they did.
Is everything that happens in a vaccum? If I shoot someone in the head in cold blood can that be erased if I donate to charity?
bet 90% of people sided with Kenny because its Kenny and he's been around longer.
And in the real world the judge would totally accept "she manipulated him into killing her"... No wait you don't blame someone for their death like that. She made a mistake but she didn't deserve to die. When someone with anger issues kill someone you don't blame the person they killed. Believe it or not but no sane person would accept that. Just because she fought back doesn't mean she wasn't the victim here.
And if Kenny had taken his rage out on Clem for whatever reason I'm sure she just "manipulated" him into it.
I wonder what excuses you'll give him then.
And she proves herself more right than even she could see and yet Kenny is the victim.
I didn't say anything about the Kenny vs Jane fight. I was talking about Kenny needing the baby to survive mentally.
While Kenny was pacing around, I would have taken that chance to rationalize and explain and right before Jane sheathes her knife Kenny just stands there, but Jane resorted to saying, she won't back down.
You got a point there.
Its better to see the punches coming I guess.
I don't personally think it had anything to do with that. He just wasn't going to attack her while she had her knife out.
Keeping the knife out probably would have been a good idea as well..
Its called self defense.
Kenny was going to flat out MURDER Jane... Clem killing him is saving someone else.
Thats why you don't get life for self defense.
hmm i donot thikn it is fair of u to call it jane sellfish becase kenny and jane is all selfishes!
you, my friend are delusional.
Kenny is selfish. The entire group votes to go south and he tells Clem why he would embarrass him like that.. are you serious? Lmao
Good argument. 10/10. Totally changed everyone's perspective on the issue. Nice job.
Seriously though, I am willing to discuss with you if you actually feel like trying to make some points. Sitting here dishing out baseless insults is just a waste of your time and it doesn't prove anything. Nothing about my points are delusional at all. I have strictly been talking about what actually happened in the game.
Sure buddy. Tell yourself whatever it takes to make Kenny the saint and Jane the devil.
There's something to be said that Jane stated her interest in ditching the baby yet she left the baby close enough to be heard.
Thats what babies do. They cry. They make noises. Jane could have just as easily left the baby further away where it wouldn't have been heard or even made sure the baby died. Instead she made it possible for them to hear the baby. What I find funny is that the baby doesn't make any noises until AFTER the fighting. Nice timing there.
You're wasting your time. Belan thinks Kenny is perfect in every way and nothing anyone says will get through that Kenny was looking for blood the second he thought the baby was dead.
You guys are missing the whole point of the episode, or even the entire series for that matter. That moment in the RV is when the whole season came together for me, that's when I figured it out. I'll quote Lee Everett here.
"Part of growing up is doing what's best for people you care about... Even if it means hurting someone else."
It's all about the choices you make, attempt to make, or are forced to make. You gotta do what you think is best, and I don't care who you are, you're going to fuck up royally at LEAST once, and at great costs. You can only do so much, you can only do what you think is best for those you care about the most, for those that you've got left. The thing is you have to realize that goes for everybody, the player isn't the only one making tough choices.
I blame neither Jane nor Kenny, or anyone else for that matter throughout the entire series. These people have been through unspeakable, dark shit, things that we could never imagine. Things that will change the very person you thought you were, for better AND for worse. We can argue about it here from our perspective all we want, but try as we may we don't truly understand their situation. We're not in survival mode. We don't have to worry about monsters chewing our faces off, or scavenging for food, water, supplies, etc. and the stress that comes with it every, single day of your miserable existence just so you can live to repeat the process over and over, until you and all those you have ever cared about are finally dead and gone.
They did what they thought was right, and maybe they were wrong in their execution, but they were wrong for the right reasons (That's another quote from the game, not word for word though). Kenny saw Arvo as a threat, and rightfully so. Sure he went overboard, but honestly, can you really blame him? He did have the group's best interests involved. Keeping the enemy secured and finding food, water, and shelter, something they were going to die pretty quickly without. So Jane misses her sister, she's tired of being alone and without someone to call family, as is Kenny. She was absolutely wrong for manipulating Clementine the way she did, it was in a way selfish because it was mostly for Jane, but I would be wrong to say she didn't care about Clementine. I'm not sure how much she cares about AJ, that was a wreck-less thing to do with him and she does think he's a liability, but I don't think she would kill him or put him in harms way again.
Another thing I've learned, from the comics especially, is that people's deaths can be so sudden and unjustified, like Luke's death especially. He didn't deserve to go out like that, he just drowned in a situation that could have easily been avoided, just like Jane or Kenny. It sucks, it wasn't what he deserved, but that shit happens out of nowhere and for no good reason, it just does. You have to accept it, especially in a world like that. I would have liked to see Luke's character develop, but I can't say his death didn't add a tone and concept that was needed to accurately represent their world. It hit me pretty hard, this whole game series did. Telltale really know what they're doing, and I applaud them for that.
I can see.
I'll just stop replying. Never understand the blind loyalty to Kenny
Oh, so you don't have an argument to make? Alrighty. Thanks for the input though. I'm sure everyone loves your quality opinion on the matter.
Well then he just wanted to attack a woman as soon as she showed signs of disarmament. Still not great.
Well, the idea of hypotheticals is the present an idea of possibilities. The main argument of the hypothesis is "What if AJ never started crying?" Yes, I know he did, and yes, he was hidden close by, but imagine if AJ never cried after Jane died? Imagine if Clem and Kenny actually believed him to be dead, and left him to die inadvertently? I'm not questioning Jane's thought-process or back-up strategies, I'm just presenting food for thought.
What do you think of it?
Kenny has a way of making history repeat itself.
He lashes out at Clem for getting Sarita killed "but he apologized"
Then he lashes out at anyone who disagrees with him "He's just looking out for the group" Yeah thats why almost everyone else ditched us
Then he beats a defenseless prisoner "Arvo deserved everything he got" Yes its easy to say that now AFTER he shoots us. But before that the only crime Arvo committed was being there after Luke died.
"Jane was egging him on in the car bringing up his dead family" And the entire time Kenny was being a reasonable nice guy? This is what happens when people argue. They get heated they don't think of what they're saying. Seems to happen a lot with Kenny.
Then the fight. What it all comes down to. I've lost count of how many people say Jane "manipulated" Kenny into it. Well whose fucking fault is that? Kenny was displaying real anger issues. He was bordering on violent when people just disagree with him. He scared Mike and Bonnie away and the only reason I stuck with him as long as I did was because the game never gave me choice not to. Jane made a mistake but because it effected Kenny she's automatically the bad guy. I can easily side with Jane here because I don't have my blinders on when it comes to what Kenny's been up to. He does something and then says sorry about it later.
"but he redeemed himself in the end by getting Clem and AJ to Wellington" That isn't redemption. Doing one good thing doesn't automatically erase all the bad. That doesn't make murder better. Thats like if I had shot someone in the head in cold blood and then expecting everyone to forgive me just because I donated to charity. Thats not how it works people!
Redemption is what he did in season 1 sacrificing himself for Ben. Man that was such a better way for him to go then to have him come back and force himself into the story again.
Belan doesn't at all think that. Kenny's has flaws, he ain't perfect. Belan is most likely being realistic here.
My biggest problem with this season was how it all became about Kenny. I tried to play the mediator asking everyone to stop arguing and it was still assumed I was on Kenny's side. There's no avoiding it because it forces this attachment to Kenny. I'm like why can't I leave with Jane? I agree with her!
To the OP
If Jane knew that Kenny is unstable and could not be brought back even by Clem, and then told Clem to stay out of the fight anyway, and then gets overpowered by Kenny then this shows she makes stupid plans(most of the time, I agreed with her plan to walker gut our way out, if it weren't for those damned guards shooting Carlos and making the plan go down the toilet.)
I'm fine with it so long as everyone's nice about it. No one is resorting to name calling in this thread at least
Every single part of the fight points to Kenny wanting Jane dead.
"he was only defending himself"
Yeah thats realistic.
Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think Jane had it all figured out. I think most of her plan was improvising on the fly.