Thing is, Lesbian(ism?) was shoved down new female players' throats in Mass Effect 3, but there was zero reaction on that by the fanbase. But headlines about the gay OPTIONAL relationships did make it to videogame magazines.
We wouldn't be talking about homophobia alone but a darker matter that seems to be so present in the gamer community...
I guess it's a matter of when it's shoved down your throat or it's just there. If you have a homosexual character and they are preaching about equality I guess people wouldn't like that...
I think the male gamers didn't have a problem with the Femshep lesbic relationship because a lesbic relationship is with a woman contrary to a gay relationship.
What people are asking isn't so much for TT to have LGBT characters... but for the gaming community to be more accepting! How many gamers co… moremplained about the fact that in Mass Effect 3, if you haven't played Mass Effect 1 or 2, and you play as FemShep you can only engage in Lesbian relationships!
No guy has complained about that... on the other hand, there was this HUGE uproar when they introduced gay relationships for the same game! What the hell, gaming community?!
Talk about misogyny and homophobia and, worst of all, hypocresy!
TT, just bring Matthew back for Season Three, he's really cute.
There, a quick Photoshop sesion by me and he's ready for S3.
those people aren't too hung up on race. race is important when you're not white. you have kids that grow up hating themselves and their race because their not white.
This is what I was talking about when I stated: "You're acting like people need to be able to racially and sexually identify with other characters in order to find some sort of self security."
I'm sorry, but the media doesn't have to consciously go out of their way to fix your own insecurities.
because white is seen as right. so don't say people are too hung up race
In general, that is not true at all in this day and age. We're in the year 2014. It isn't 1960 anymore. Please do not generalize like that.
i would say some really nasty shit to you but i can't because i already for insulting asshats like you. oops.
Chill out.
you need help dude.
Because I don't share your insecurities? You need to get over it man.
thats not what i'm saying at all. a game with no white people? high unlikely. those people aren't too hung up on race. race is important whe… moren you're not white. you have kids that grow up hating themselves and their race because their not white. because white is seen as right. so don't say people are too hung up race. you just don't get it man and i don't think you ever will. i would say some really nasty shit to you but i can't because i already for insulting asshats like you. oops.
you need help dude.
get over what? don't give that "its not the 60s" bullshit racism is still alive dude and if you don't think it is you're blind. my insecurities? of course you don't share them.
thats not what i'm saying at all.
Yes, it was. (I'll touch on that later)
a game with no white people? high unlikely.
… moreWho cares? I'm simply talking hypothetically.
those people aren't too hung up on race. race is important when you're not white. you have kids that grow up hating themselves and their race because their not white.
This is what I was talking about when I stated: "You're acting like people need to be able to racially and sexually identify with other characters in order to find some sort of self security."
I'm sorry, but the media doesn't have to consciously go out of their way to fix your own insecurities.
because white is seen as right. so don't say people are too hung up race
In general, that is not true at all in this day and age. We're in the year 2014. It isn't 1960 anymore. Please do not generalize like that.
i would say some really nasty shit to you but i can't bec… [view original content]
thats not what i'm saying at all.
Yes, it was. (I'll touch on that later)
a game with no white people? high unlikely.
… moreWho cares? I'm simply talking hypothetically.
those people aren't too hung up on race. race is important when you're not white. you have kids that grow up hating themselves and their race because their not white.
This is what I was talking about when I stated: "You're acting like people need to be able to racially and sexually identify with other characters in order to find some sort of self security."
I'm sorry, but the media doesn't have to consciously go out of their way to fix your own insecurities.
because white is seen as right. so don't say people are too hung up race
In general, that is not true at all in this day and age. We're in the year 2014. It isn't 1960 anymore. Please do not generalize like that.
i would say some really nasty shit to you but i can't bec… [view original content]
My god. I never said racism is non existent. I simply told you not to generalize. Did you even fully read what I said?
There will always be racists. Is our society racist or oppressive as a whole? No. We have a freaking black president. Don't tell me white is seen as right. It's a stupid generalization.
get over what? don't give that "its not the 60s" bullshit racism is still alive dude and if you don't think it is you're blind. my insecurities? of course you don't share them.
Another strawman. Jesus dude, learn how to put across a point. If a show choose to have a gay person in their show. They would be there. Unlike in the 1900s where it was actively discouraged as of the state of affair. Media has evolved.
My god. I never said racism is non existent. I simply told you not to generalize. Did you even fully read what I said?
There will always … morebe racists. Is our society racist or oppressive as a whole? No. We have a freaking black president. Don't tell me white is seen as right. It's a stupid generalization.
No one is using that reasoning. We all simply think it is silly to cater a game to people insecure about their race or sexuality.
That may sound harsh, but honestly this whole discussion is very frustrating. If I played a game where all the characters were homosexual bunny rabbits I wouldn't feel offended or feel left out because young white human males were left out of the game.
Seriously, that's how ridiculous this discussion is to me.
No offense guys, but why are y'all getting all mad about the talk of a lesbian/gay/transgender/etc character being in the game? Y'all are ac… moreting like everyone in the world is straight and that's a normal thing. People just want to be recognized a little bit (those who are transgender or a different sexuality) and Telltale already has a great race diversity, it'd just be nice to have a character in there that they can relate to.
No one is using that reasoning. We all simply think it is silly to cater a game to people insecure about their race or sexuality.
That ma… morey sound harsh, but honestly this whole discussion is very frustrating. If I played a game where all the characters were homosexual bunny rabbits I wouldn't feel offended or feel left out because young white human males were left out of the game.
Seriously, that's how ridiculous this discussion is to me.
Then why aren't there games full of gays, lesbians etc? Because most people aren't like you and they would be put off and not play the game. Just because you find the conversation silly doesn't make it so, minorities need more media exposure so people realise they're not freaks and don't ostrasize them.
No one is using that reasoning. We all simply think it is silly to cater a game to people insecure about their race or sexuality.
That ma… morey sound harsh, but honestly this whole discussion is very frustrating. If I played a game where all the characters were homosexual bunny rabbits I wouldn't feel offended or feel left out because young white human males were left out of the game.
Seriously, that's how ridiculous this discussion is to me.
You're telling me a game should include minorities to help people feel less insecure about themselves. That's just ridiculous.
"If I played a game where all the characters were homosexual bunny rabbits I wouldn't feel offended or feel left out because young white human males were left out of the game."
Then why aren't there games full of gays, lesbians etc? Because most people aren't like you and they would be put off and not play the game.… more Just because you find the conversation silly doesn't make it so, minorities need more media exposure so people realise they're not freaks and don't ostrasize them.
I know you weren't, but you are acting as if it is no longer a problem. It still is unfortunately, just is hidden better. You accuse me of straw manning you, I think its the other way round mate.
Oh so all the people murdered and discriminated against for being LGBT were just feeling a bit insecure right? Nothing to do with the negative portrayal of them making people hate them?
You're telling me a game should include minorities to help people feel less insecure about themselves. That's just ridiculous.
"If I play… moreed a game where all the characters were homosexual bunny rabbits I wouldn't feel offended or feel left out because young white human males were left out of the game."
I think the male gamers didn't have a problem with the Femshep lesbic relationship because a lesbic relationship is with a woman contrary to a gay relationship.
Then there was no point in telling me it was alive in the first place. Obviously if we were on the same page you wouldn't be questioning me.
you are acting as if it is no longer a problem. It still is unfortunately, just is hidden better.
In some places, yes. In general it isn't bad at all. Again, we have a black president leading our nation. I was simply stating that the guy was giving a false generalization. Why that is so hard to understand is seriously beyond me.
Regardless, arguing that minorities need to be prevalent in a video game in order to sooth insecurities is just silly. People should not care about this.
I know you weren't, but you are acting as if it is no longer a problem. It still is unfortunately, just is hidden better. You accuse me of straw manning you, I think its the other way round mate.
You're telling me a game should include minorities to help people feel less insecure about themselves. That's just ridiculous.
"If I play… moreed a game where all the characters were homosexual bunny rabbits I wouldn't feel offended or feel left out because young white human males were left out of the game."
FFS, by saying it was alive I was saying its still a problem, not to brush it under the rug because there is a black president.
And you can't be intellectually honest and say that the only problems blacks/gays have are their own apparent insecurity. Are you retarded mate? They need more representation because of how people ignorantly discriminate and are rude to them, not because they feel bad about being gay and need affirmation from the media.
I know you weren't
Then there was no point in telling me it was alive in the first place. Obviously if we were on the same page you … morewouldn't be questioning me.
you are acting as if it is no longer a problem. It still is unfortunately, just is hidden better.
In some places, yes. In general it isn't bad at all. Again, we have a black president leading our nation. I was simply stating that the guy was giving a false generalization. Why that is so hard to understand is seriously beyond me.
Regardless, arguing that minorities need to be prevalent in a video game in order to sooth insecurities is just silly. People should not care about this.
Yeah man, our society is all about White = right. For sure. How the hell we have a black president is beyond me. Did he elect himself? #Miracles
Anyway, this conversation is irrelevant to the original discussion. You're being insecure. Videogames don't have to represent you in order to make you feel good about yourself.
That has almost nothing to do with what I said. You're arguing about whether they have reason to feel insecure or not. I'm simply telling you that a video game shouldn't have to make a conscious effort to make them feel better about themselves.
I used to occasionally be made fun of for being short. I was a little insecure about my height (I'm average now). Most male characters in TWD are taller than I am. Should I feel left out because of the lack of short people?
Seriously, this is the logic you are using. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but you guys are being ridiculous.
Oh so all the people murdered and discriminated against for being LGBT were just feeling a bit insecure right? Nothing to do with the negative portrayal of them making people hate them?
No, it is not just the burden of TWDG, but the media as a whole should portray them more often and in a better light. Homosexuals aren't uncommon, but are rarely portrayed in media unless its the token gay guy. Its not about people feeling better about themselves, its trying to create a healthier more accepting society.
That has almost nothing to do with what I said. You're arguing about whether they have reason to feel insecure or not. I'm simply telling yo… moreu that a video game shouldn't have to make a conscious effort to make them feel better about themselves.
I used to occasionally be made fun of for being short. I was a little insecure about my height (I'm average now). Most male characters in TWD are taller than I am. Should I feel left out because of the lack of short people?
Seriously, this is the logic you are using. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but you guys are being ridiculous.
FFS, by saying it was alive I was saying its still a problem, not to brush it under the rug because there is a black president.
I don't know how many times I need to openly state that racism is still an existing problem.
(Here, I'll bold it for you this time.)
I wasn't brushing anything under the rug. I was showing that our society as a whole does not follow the mantra of "white is right".
And you can't be intellectually honest and say that the only problems blacks/gays have are their own apparent insecurity. Are you retarded mate?
Is this a joke?? I never said that. You're coming to that conclusion 100% on your own. Seriously, please try and quote me on that. Please don't question my intelligence when you seemingly can't even read or properly comprehend what I'm telling you.
They need more representation because of how people ignorantly discriminate and are rude to them, not because they feel bad about being gay and need affirmation from the media.
Our society isn't so socially broken that it needs videogames to tell us black people are okay. Lets be real here.
FFS, by saying it was alive I was saying its still a problem, not to brush it under the rug because there is a black president.
And you c… morean't be intellectually honest and say that the only problems blacks/gays have are their own apparent insecurity. Are you retarded mate? They need more representation because of how people ignorantly discriminate and are rude to them, not because they feel bad about being gay and need affirmation from the media.
Well you were making out like it was no longer a problem, that it only was a big deal in the 60s or whatever, but fair enough.
No, its not a joke. You claim that the only reason minorities could possibly want media representation is to 'soothe their insecurities', that is fallacious. I have stated many a time it is about acceptance and normalising them to society, that they're not all just traps or drag queens etc. You are deliberately ignoring the fact that it is not at all about soothing anyone's bloody insecurities. Most LGBT people are accepting of themselves, its just others who are ignorant who are hateful. Making them more popular and not stereotypical in mainstream media makes society more accepting.
FFS, by saying it was alive I was saying its still a problem, not to brush it under the rug because there is a black president.
I do… moren't know how many times I need to openly state that racism is still an existing problem.
(Here, I'll bold it for you this time.)
I wasn't brushing anything under the rug. I was showing that our society as a whole does not follow the mantra of "white is right".
And you can't be intellectually honest and say that the only problems blacks/gays have are their own apparent insecurity. Are you retarded mate?
Is this a joke?? I never said that. You're coming to that conclusion 100% on your own. Seriously, please try and quote me on that. Please don't question my intelligence when you seemingly can't even read or properly comprehend what I'm telling you.
They need more representation because of how people ignorantly discriminate and are rude to them, not because they feel bad about being… [view original content]
Whats wrong with the token gay guy? Are you saying there is something wrong with the token gay guy? It really looks like it. Are you trying to say that "token" gay guys are damaging to "normal" gay guys? This is looking really contradictive..
Its not about people feeling better about themselves
Could have fooled me. I really think this is a big part of it.
its trying to create a healthier more accepting society.
That's nice and all, but not necessary. A video game or story does not have to do this.
No, it is not just the burden of TWDG, but the media as a whole should portray them more often and in a better light. Homosexuals aren't unc… moreommon, but are rarely portrayed in media unless its the token gay guy. Its not about people feeling better about themselves, its trying to create a healthier more accepting society.
I'm guessing this is because a lot of the players on mass effect were men, if they were women there may have been a different reaction. I'm surprised you guys have no noticed that lesbian relationships are seen as I guess as you could say attractive versus gay relationships.
...Token gay guy does not mean stereotypical gay guy. By token gay guy, I meant 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC'. So no, you have completely twisted my words saying I am against stereotypical gays, I'm not at all.
No one has to do anything, but it'd be nice if they did once in a while. You hardly ever see well written LGBT people in mainstream media.
The media is not portraying them in a poor light.
Whats wrong with the token gay guy? Are you saying there is something wrong with the to… moreken gay guy? It really looks like it. Are you trying to say that "token" gay guys are damaging to "normal" gay guys? This is looking really contradictive..
Its not about people feeling better about themselves
Could have fooled me. I really think this is a big part of it.
its trying to create a healthier more accepting society.
That's nice and all, but not necessary. A video game or story does not have to do this.
...Token gay guy does not mean stereotypical gay guy. By token gay guy, I meant 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC. So no, you have completely twisted my words saying I am against stereotypical gays, I'm not at all.
Alright, what was your point then? What is wrong with " 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC"?
I wasn't twisting your words. I was questioning what you meant..
No one has to do anything, but it'd be nice if they did once in a while. You hardly ever see well written LGBT people in mainstream media.
No doubt it would be nice. I can't argue against good intentions. My whole rant here has been towards people who think minorities need to be included in the game for whatever reason.
...Token gay guy does not mean stereotypical gay guy. By token gay guy, I meant 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC'.… more So no, you have completely twisted my words saying I am against stereotypical gays, I'm not at all.
No one has to do anything, but it'd be nice if they did once in a while. You hardly ever see well written LGBT people in mainstream media.
...Token gay guy does not mean stereotypical gay guy. By token gay guy, I meant 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC. … moreSo no, you have completely twisted my words saying I am against stereotypical gays, I'm not at all.
Alright, what was your point then? What is wrong with " 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC"?
I wasn't twisting your words. I was questioning what you meant..
No one has to do anything, but it'd be nice if they did once in a while. You hardly ever see well written LGBT people in mainstream media.
No doubt it would be nice. I can't argue against good intentions. My whole rant here has been towards people who think minorities need to be included in the game for whatever reason.
My point is they're usually not well written, and hardly ever made the main characters, perhaps maybe a side kick. They don't need to be in the game, sure. I'm not saying having a gay in the game would somehow change everything, I'm just saying they really should be better represented in media. I see where you're coming from, that race/sexuality shouldn't be intrinsic to the character, that it shouldn't matter. But unfortunately in the real world, it does.
...Token gay guy does not mean stereotypical gay guy. By token gay guy, I meant 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC. … moreSo no, you have completely twisted my words saying I am against stereotypical gays, I'm not at all.
Alright, what was your point then? What is wrong with " 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC"?
I wasn't twisting your words. I was questioning what you meant..
No one has to do anything, but it'd be nice if they did once in a while. You hardly ever see well written LGBT people in mainstream media.
No doubt it would be nice. I can't argue against good intentions. My whole rant here has been towards people who think minorities need to be included in the game for whatever reason.
Comments
Thing is, Lesbian(ism?) was shoved down new female players' throats in Mass Effect 3, but there was zero reaction on that by the fanbase. But headlines about the gay OPTIONAL relationships did make it to videogame magazines.
We wouldn't be talking about homophobia alone but a darker matter that seems to be so present in the gamer community...
I think the male gamers didn't have a problem with the Femshep lesbic relationship because a lesbic relationship is with a woman contrary to a gay relationship.
Yes, it was. (I'll touch on that later)
Who cares? I'm simply talking hypothetically.
This is what I was talking about when I stated: "You're acting like people need to be able to racially and sexually identify with other characters in order to find some sort of self security."
I'm sorry, but the media doesn't have to consciously go out of their way to fix your own insecurities.
In general, that is not true at all in this day and age. We're in the year 2014. It isn't 1960 anymore. Please do not generalize like that.
Chill out.
Because I don't share your insecurities? You need to get over it man.
get over what? don't give that "its not the 60s" bullshit racism is still alive dude and if you don't think it is you're blind. my insecurities? of course you don't share them.
Racism/homophobia is alive and well unfortunately.
My god. I never said racism is non existent. I simply told you not to generalize. Did you even fully read what I said?
There will always be racists. Is our society racist or oppressive as a whole? No. We have a freaking black president. Don't tell me white is seen as right. It's a stupid generalization.
It wasn't a straw man, I misunderstood your point.
I thought you were saying excluding black people at its base level is morally worse than excluding gay people.
It seems you're the one who should learn to put across their point, however, as I have absolutely no idea what you are saying.
Oh really?
Yup, really. I'm white and I can still see racism going on, open your eyes mate
yeah its a little generalization and little truth. just because we have a black president doesn't mean anything.
No one is using that reasoning. We all simply think it is silly to cater a game to people insecure about their race or sexuality.
That may sound harsh, but honestly this whole discussion is very frustrating. If I played a game where all the characters were homosexual bunny rabbits I wouldn't feel offended or feel left out because young white human males were left out of the game.
Seriously, that's how ridiculous this discussion is to me.
so you do think rascim is dead.
no one wants to be cratered to they just want to be represented.
Then why aren't there games full of gays, lesbians etc? Because most people aren't like you and they would be put off and not play the game. Just because you find the conversation silly doesn't make it so, minorities need more media exposure so people realise they're not freaks and don't ostrasize them.
I was being sarcastic. OBVIOUSLY it exists. I never said that it didn't. Please read.
Same thing.
You're telling me a game should include minorities to help people feel less insecure about themselves. That's just ridiculous.
"If I played a game where all the characters were homosexual bunny rabbits I wouldn't feel offended or feel left out because young white human males were left out of the game."
I know you weren't, but you are acting as if it is no longer a problem. It still is unfortunately, just is hidden better. You accuse me of straw manning you, I think its the other way round mate.
Oh so all the people murdered and discriminated against for being LGBT were just feeling a bit insecure right? Nothing to do with the negative portrayal of them making people hate them?
That's what I'm implying, and it is still quite hypocritical at least from my point of view.
Then there was no point in telling me it was alive in the first place. Obviously if we were on the same page you wouldn't be questioning me.
In some places, yes. In general it isn't bad at all. Again, we have a black president leading our nation. I was simply stating that the guy was giving a false generalization. Why that is so hard to understand is seriously beyond me.
Regardless, arguing that minorities need to be prevalent in a video game in order to sooth insecurities is just silly. People should not care about this.
you don't get it at all. you're not even seeing their side of it.
no its not.
FFS, by saying it was alive I was saying its still a problem, not to brush it under the rug because there is a black president.
And you can't be intellectually honest and say that the only problems blacks/gays have are their own apparent insecurity. Are you retarded mate? They need more representation because of how people ignorantly discriminate and are rude to them, not because they feel bad about being gay and need affirmation from the media.
Doesn't mean ANYTHING? Hahahahaha.
Yeah man, our society is all about White = right. For sure. How the hell we have a black president is beyond me. Did he elect himself? #Miracles
Anyway, this conversation is irrelevant to the original discussion. You're being insecure. Videogames don't have to represent you in order to make you feel good about yourself.
LOL WHAT ELSE COULD IT POSSIBLY MEAN.
That has almost nothing to do with what I said. You're arguing about whether they have reason to feel insecure or not. I'm simply telling you that a video game shouldn't have to make a conscious effort to make them feel better about themselves.
I used to occasionally be made fun of for being short. I was a little insecure about my height (I'm average now). Most male characters in TWD are taller than I am. Should I feel left out because of the lack of short people?
Seriously, this is the logic you are using. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but you guys are being ridiculous.
No, it is not just the burden of TWDG, but the media as a whole should portray them more often and in a better light. Homosexuals aren't uncommon, but are rarely portrayed in media unless its the token gay guy. Its not about people feeling better about themselves, its trying to create a healthier more accepting society.
I don't know how many times I need to openly state that racism is still an existing problem.
(Here, I'll bold it for you this time.)
I wasn't brushing anything under the rug. I was showing that our society as a whole does not follow the mantra of "white is right".
Is this a joke?? I never said that. You're coming to that conclusion 100% on your own. Seriously, please try and quote me on that. Please don't question my intelligence when you seemingly can't even read or properly comprehend what I'm telling you.
Our society isn't so socially broken that it needs videogames to tell us black people are okay. Lets be real here.
Why's there a spoiler warning? Jw
Well you were making out like it was no longer a problem, that it only was a big deal in the 60s or whatever, but fair enough.
No, its not a joke. You claim that the only reason minorities could possibly want media representation is to 'soothe their insecurities', that is fallacious. I have stated many a time it is about acceptance and normalising them to society, that they're not all just traps or drag queens etc. You are deliberately ignoring the fact that it is not at all about soothing anyone's bloody insecurities. Most LGBT people are accepting of themselves, its just others who are ignorant who are hateful. Making them more popular and not stereotypical in mainstream media makes society more accepting.
The media is not portraying them in a poor light.
Whats wrong with the token gay guy? Are you saying there is something wrong with the token gay guy? It really looks like it. Are you trying to say that "token" gay guys are damaging to "normal" gay guys? This is looking really contradictive..
Could have fooled me. I really think this is a big part of it.
That's nice and all, but not necessary. A video game or story does not have to do this.
How about a pedophilic, triracial, binational, semiromantic, quadrisexual, omniallergic babyfur otherkin? Who's also Italian.
It is quite the double standard, isn't it?
I'm guessing this is because a lot of the players on mass effect were men, if they were women there may have been a different reaction. I'm surprised you guys have no noticed that lesbian relationships are seen as I guess as you could say attractive versus gay relationships.
...Token gay guy does not mean stereotypical gay guy. By token gay guy, I meant 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC'. So no, you have completely twisted my words saying I am against stereotypical gays, I'm not at all.
No one has to do anything, but it'd be nice if they did once in a while. You hardly ever see well written LGBT people in mainstream media.
Alright, what was your point then? What is wrong with " 'that gay guy just thrown in so the show/game etc looks PC"?
I wasn't twisting your words. I was questioning what you meant..
No doubt it would be nice. I can't argue against good intentions. My whole rant here has been towards people who think minorities need to be included in the game for whatever reason.
Belan you aren't understanding the point... token as in "thrown in there, no real point, just decoration to look good".
My point is they're usually not well written, and hardly ever made the main characters, perhaps maybe a side kick. They don't need to be in the game, sure. I'm not saying having a gay in the game would somehow change everything, I'm just saying they really should be better represented in media. I see where you're coming from, that race/sexuality shouldn't be intrinsic to the character, that it shouldn't matter. But unfortunately in the real world, it does.
Yes.. that is why I was asking questions. I was simply looking for clarification.