He wasn't comparing these things with homosexuality in that way. He wasn't saying "homosexuality is as bad as these". With a little bit of thinking it should be clear what he meant.
He meant that when you are screaming for Homosexual People to be represented in the game, all those people could complain as well. What would you say if a, say, asexual person would complain that there are no asexual people in the game? I don't think you'd jump up and say "Oh yes, we definitely need those, they also have to be represented all across the media!"... would you?
Little boys and girls develop crushes all the time
Yeah. And sometimes little boys develop crushes on other little boys and little girls develop crushes on other little girls. In calling heterosexuality "the default," it seems that you think that in the absence of any external influence, all boys will grow up to like girls and all girls will grow up to like boys. But that's not what we see. What we see are very young boys and girls growing up in the same environments as their peers and having same-sex romantic interests. Indeed, some parents go to great lengths to instill heterosexuality in their children and still end up with gay kids and a lot of parents place no emphasis on their kids to be heterosexuals and wind up with heterosexual kids.
You can only choose to be homosexual, it may not be a conscious decision...but it is still a choice none the less.
That's the crux of the comparison between race and sexual orientation: that they are both traits that a person has no conscious control over. And it doesn't make sense to judge someone for something they have no conscious control over. Your point that "there is no gay gene" doesn't have any relevance to Flog's comparison because the absence of a gay gene doesn't mean that being gay is something that people can control. Do you get it now?
Honestly, I see homosexuality as uncontrolled lust.
What? How can homosexuality be seen as uncontrolled lust? It's not defined by promiscuity or a higher degree of sexual interest. In fact, homosexuals have no interest in the things that their heterosexual counterparts lust after. Most of them just want to pursue a monogamous relationship with someone they love. How is that any more lustful than what most heterosexual want?
heterosexuality is normal, there is no need for there to be a gene that causes it, nor is there a need to make up a gene to excuse heterosex… moreuality. Contrary to popular belief, heterosexuality is the default, we are meant to be with the opposite sex. If we man and woman weren't made for one another, they wouldn't be able to procreate.
Otherwise, most gay men would be considered heterosexual and some straight men who can't sexually reproduce would not be considered heterosexual..
You're just nitpicking now.
Of course no one is born wanting to have sex, not until they hit puberty at least. A child wanting to have sex is just sick. Frankly, this particular argument is just silly. Little boys and girls develop crushes all the time, they have an understanding romantically, they develop sexually later. No I never decided, because you can't decide to be straight. You are born heterosexual, we are meant to grow older and then be with… [view original content]
You can't claim to know what environment all little boys and girls grow up who develop feelings for the same sex, nor can you claim to know what happens every single day in the house of those children that become gay.
I only say conscious, because I doubt that anyone wakes up and says "I want to be gay, so I'm now gay." Honestly, you have got to stop with the race and sexuality comparisons, not only is it silly, but it's just plain rude to say that being gay is the same as being black, or any other race. I have made it very clear that where a gay person can choose not to engage in homosexual actions/relations, a black person doesn't have that choice. You can't make a unconscious decision to change your race, you are born that way.It can be controlled, people choose not to control it.
I have no desire to insult anyone here who is homosexual, if I were to express my thoughts any further than that, I know that I will get banned.
Little boys and girls develop crushes all the time
Yeah. And sometimes little boys develop crushes on other little boys and little g… moreirls develop crushes on other little girls. In calling heterosexuality "the default," it seems that you think that in the absence of any external influence, all boys will grow up to like girls and all girls will grow up to like boys. But that's not what we see. What we see are very young boys and girls growing up in the same environments as their peers and having same-sex romantic interests. Indeed, some parents go to great lengths to instill heterosexuality in their children and still end up with gay kids and a lot of parents place no emphasis on their kids to be heterosexuals and wind up with heterosexual kids.
You can only choose to be homosexual, it may not be a conscious decision...but it is still a choice none the less.
That's the crux of the comparison between race and sexual orientat… [view original content]
i'm in public but it doesn't matter because you're such a bigot anything i say won't matter. your way of thinking is fucked up and you need to change it. seriously.
You can't claim to know what environment all little boys and girls grow up who develop feelings for the same sex, nor can you claim to know … morewhat happens every single day in the house of those children that become gay.
I only say conscious, because I doubt that anyone wakes up and says "I want to be gay, so I'm now gay." Honestly, you have got to stop with the race and sexuality comparisons, not only is it silly, but it's just plain rude to say that being gay is the same as being black, or any other race. I have made it very clear that where a gay person can choose not to engage in homosexual actions/relations, a black person doesn't have that choice. You can't make a unconscious decision to change your race, you are born that way.It can be controlled, people choose not to control it.
I have no desire to insult anyone here who is homosexual, if I were to express my thoughts any further than that, I know that I will get banned.
Ah yes, bigot. Like I haven't heard that one before. Bigot, racist, and homophobe are thrown around so much nowadays that they don't hold any real impact or meaning anymore. Way to be tolerant of different opinions, what makes you think that anyone, much less me, gives a damn what you think? Go ahead, and run along now.
i'm in public but it doesn't matter because you're such a bigot anything i say won't matter. your way of thinking is fucked up and you need to change it. seriously.
the way you act online just proves that your real life sucks ass. you need the internet to have any kind of power because you have none in real life. being rude to 17-year-olds makes you feel good huh? does it raise your self esteem any?
Ah yes, bigot. Like I haven't heard that one before. Bigot, racist, and homophobe are thrown around so much nowadays that they don't hold an… morey real impact or meaning anymore. Way to be tolerant of different opinions, what makes you think that anyone, much less me, gives a damn what you think? Go ahead, and run along now.
Hey now, no need to get pissy. I'm only treating you the way you're treating me. You've insulted me personally from the start. I have no reason to treat you nicely, if your feelings are hurt that much by my remarks, then you should treat people the way you want to be treated.
the way you act online just proves that your real life sucks ass. you need the internet to have any kind of power because you have none in real life. being rude to 17-year-olds makes you feel good huh? does it raise your self esteem any?
my feelings aren't hurt at all but i like how you ignored what i wrote. people would have gotten mad for juding their personal life. most would said their lives are fine but you just ignored which leads me to believe that i'm right. i'll never treat someone like you with respect ever.
Hey now, no need to get pissy. I'm only treating you the way you're treating me. You've insulted me personally from the start. I have no rea… moreson to treat you nicely, if your feelings are hurt that much by my remarks, then you should treat people the way you want to be treated.
Why would I address your desperate/amusing attempts to hurt my feelings? I have no need to prove anything to you, you're just some random angry kid on the internet lol. If that's what you want to think of me, I'm not going to stop you, because I don't care. Then don't get upset and say whiny shit like "does it make you feel better to be rude to 17 year olds". You tell me your age as though that should make me feel bad. You are three years younger than me, grow up and deal with the shit that you start.:P
my feelings aren't hurt at all but i like how you ignored what i wrote. people would have gotten mad for juding their personal life. most wo… moreuld said their lives are fine but you just ignored which leads me to believe that i'm right. i'll never treat someone like you with respect ever.
Why would I address your desperate/amusing attempts to hurt my feelings? I have no need to prove anything to you, you're just some random an… moregry kid on the internet lol. If that's what you want to think of me, I'm not going to stop you, because I don't care. Then don't get upset and say whiny shit like "does it make you feel better to be rude to 17 year olds". You tell me your age as though that should make me feel bad. You are three years younger than me, grow up and deal with the shit that you start.:P
Yes, but promoting the acceptance of homosexuality, transgenderism, and such, is a political ideal. And while it's a political ideal that I happen to hold, I don't really like fans demanding that artists extol their personal political ideals when it barely has any relevance to the subject matter of the work. "Yeah, I guess Breaking Bad was a good show, but I really wanted to see them bring up climate change and environmentalism a bit more." It just seems...I don't know. Naggy?
Well no, but my point is that there appears to be no systematic bias influencing whether or not children become homosexual. Children raised at the same time, by the same parents, in the same household can have different sexual orientations. Now you can speculate that in every single case of a child growing up to be gay, there's always a particular thing that occurs that never occurs when children grow up to be straight, but that seems pretty far-fetched to me.
I have made it very clear that where a gay person can choose not to engage in homosexual actions/relations, a black person doesn't have that choice.
Do you not understand that choosing to engage in homosexual/heterosexual relationships is not the same thing as choosing to be homosexual or heterosexual? To strike an analogy to race, it would be akin to the difference between being black and personally identifying as black. A black person can certainly choose to not identify him or herself as black, but he or she would still be black. A gay person can choose to not engage in homosexual relationships, but he or she would still be gay. That's what we're talking about: what a person is, not what a person does.
You can't claim to know what environment all little boys and girls grow up who develop feelings for the same sex, nor can you claim to know … morewhat happens every single day in the house of those children that become gay.
I only say conscious, because I doubt that anyone wakes up and says "I want to be gay, so I'm now gay." Honestly, you have got to stop with the race and sexuality comparisons, not only is it silly, but it's just plain rude to say that being gay is the same as being black, or any other race. I have made it very clear that where a gay person can choose not to engage in homosexual actions/relations, a black person doesn't have that choice. You can't make a unconscious decision to change your race, you are born that way.It can be controlled, people choose not to control it.
I have no desire to insult anyone here who is homosexual, if I were to express my thoughts any further than that, I know that I will get banned.
I have to agree with DomeWing and Flog. Homosexuality is no more a "choice" than say "choosing" to be left-handed or right-handed. Just like I don't believe some people up and choose to be left-handed when they learn to draw and write (and yes, I'm well aware individuals can teach and discipline themselves to be ambidextrous, however it still doesn't mean that they still won't choose one hand over the other as their dominate), some people don't up and choose what their sexual orientation is either. And Like Flog said, if it was so much as a choice, I' pretty sure some people in Russia and certain African countries wouldn't choose to be homosexual since in certain countries it's legal to imprison them.
And what do you mean by "more susceptible to homosexual thoughts"? Because to be fair, homosexuality isn't something that occurs only in humans, but also in various animal species. I'm also a bit curious on the "less gender socialization" thing as well.
I wouldn't say being born heterosexual is the default just because it's our purpose to be with the opposite sex to procreate, because one could argue that maybe the purpose of homosexuality is to stabilize our ever increasing population. Then you have many people who either can't or choose not to procreate as well as other persons who are asexual and don't show any sexual interests in either genders, etc. Even though, heterosexuality is the majority it doesn't mean that homosexuality isn't normal or against nature in any form.
I never said it was that simple. People struggle with things they don't want to think about or do all throughout life. Some people are more … more susceptible to homosexual thoughts, but that doesn't mean they were born that way. In terms of nature vs nurture, homosexuality falls under the nurture category.
Not all medical experts. Just the ones that are spotlighted the most in media, because it has become a trend to be more "progressive". There is so much pressure on society to force us all to believe that homosexuality is something you're born with, but that is just not the case. Many people who don't agree with this theory are less inclined to express their thoughts and opinions on this matter, because they are almost always called a homophobe, a bigot, a close minded asshole, and any other terrible insult one can think of. Frankly, I don't care what I'm called, or what people think of my thoughts.
Its not about relating to the character, its about showing society that these are normal, acceptable people who shouldn't be ostracized
And why does a game, movie or whatever have to do that to make people feel different? Provided everyone in the game isnt mistreating said character simply because of that and everyone else agrees with the mistreatment then I dont see the problem. Also while racism and all the other types of abuse exist there no where near as mainstream any more. Society generally judges the haters rather than the people themselves any more. And again this isnt about this at all its about that having that they have to have a gay, Bi or whatever character just to appease certain minorities is dumb and unneeded, and in the case where its clearly shown one or both charcaters are literally just defined by their relationship, for example you end up with Sarita type charcaters where there only trait is being in a relaionship with another charcater.
I'm not saying just TWDG should have to. I'm saying it'd be nice if they were better represented in mainstream media. And for the character to not be defined by their LGBT status, that'd be rubbish if they were.
Its not about relating to the character, its about showing society that these are normal, acceptable people who shouldn't be ostracized
… more
And why does a game, movie or whatever have to do that to make people feel different? Provided everyone in the game isnt mistreating said character simply because of that and everyone else agrees with the mistreatment then I dont see the problem. Also while racism and all the other types of abuse exist there no where near as mainstream any more. Society generally judges the haters rather than the people themselves any more. And again this isnt about this at all its about that having that they have to have a gay, Bi or whatever character just to appease certain minorities is dumb and unneeded, and in the case where its clearly shown one or both charcaters are literally just defined by their relationship, for example you end up with Sarita type charcaters where there only trait is being in a relaionship with another charcater.
At the end of the day yeah they should be but at the same time there dosnt have to be a character in everything. just to appease the loud easily offended minority the character is often forced to be a saint purely to avoid backlash from that community.
Take Sarah, who wasnt even actually said to have problems people just assumed, when she died people just went nuts because surely someone like that should not die, despite Nick clearly having a more pointless death that episode .
once again they are a minority its less likely we would meet someone like that just based on averages
I'm not saying just TWDG should have to. I'm saying it'd be nice if they were better represented in mainstream media. And for the character to not be defined by their LGBT status, that'd be rubbish if they were.
At the end of the day yeah they should be but at the same time there dosnt have to be a character in everything. just to appease the loud … moreeasily offended minority the character is often forced to be a saint purely to avoid backlash from that community.
Take Sarah, who wasnt even actually said to have problems people just assumed, when she died people just went nuts because surely someone like that should not die, despite Nick clearly having a more pointless death that episode .
once again they are a minority its less likely we would meet someone like that just based on averages
Yeah probably, but at the same time I'm sure 100% people know someone whos straight, Im not saying being a minority is bad or anyway inferior however it is a minority. And to be fair several of the characters could have been gay or Bi because lets face it we dont and shouldnt be able to tell anyway and instead maybe leave it to imagination ( E.G Nick kind of gave off that vibe).
It can be hinted at but honestly a character shouldnt be defined by there sexuality or whatever thats a bad character
As I said before, it isn't a conscious decision, as though they wake up and decide to be gay, but it isn't something you are born with either. I believe it is developed due to outside influences. I do like the analogy you've used, but I stand by my point.
Comparing animals and humans in this specific case isn't necessarily the best usage of support, for animals also engage in incest, cannibalism, pedophilia etc. To say it's alright simply because animals are doing it, would also be condoning the other things that animals do that would otherwise be monstrous if a human ever did them. By "less gender socialization", I mean that there weren't clear genders, or gender roles established during childhood, that the child did not get enough socialization with the opposite gender.
All I am saying is that biologically, the humans' function is to procreate. This is simply stripping it down to science, the human body of the female and male were made for reproduction. If we were to not be sentient, and were less intelligent, then our only drive in life would be to reproduce. It is an interesting theory that you've proposed, but there is no proof behind it, only theory.
Asexuality literally mean to procreate with yourself. If someone were really asexual, then they would be able to procreate with themselves. Which they can't. Either people need to come up with a new term, or this sexuality doesn't exist. I am firm in my stance that Homosexuality is not normal, that it is their desires which has led them down that path. And their desires were simply constructed through how they perceive society. And how they perceive society is constructed from their environment; media, and influential people etc. People are trying to normalize homosexuality for social reasoning, if it was as an appeal to nature then one would have to say that all other sexual orientations are normal, including incest and pedophilia.
I have to agree with DomeWing and Flog. Homosexuality is no more a "choice" than say "choosing" to be left-handed or right-handed. Just like… more I don't believe some people up and choose to be left-handed when they learn to draw and write (and yes, I'm well aware individuals can teach and discipline themselves to be ambidextrous, however it still doesn't mean that they still won't choose one hand over the other as their dominate), some people don't up and choose what their sexual orientation is either. And Like Flog said, if it was so much as a choice, I' pretty sure some people in Russia and certain African countries wouldn't choose to be homosexual since in certain countries it's legal to imprison them.
And what do you mean by "more susceptible to homosexual thoughts"? Because to be fair, homosexuality isn't something that occurs only in humans, but also in various animal species. I'm also a bit curious on the "less gender socialization" thi… [view original content]
They did a good job with Walter and Matthew. Some writers can do a poor job when it comes to writing gay characters, but Walter and Matthew were written as they should be: like regular human beings.
I'd like to see some more LGBT characters too. I'm glad they also introduced a gay character in the TV Series too. Hope Tara sticks around in the group for a long time.
Well, technically speaking, FemShep could still get it on with Kaidan if you didn't play the first two games but I see your point. I mean, Kaidan is boring as fuck.
What people are asking isn't so much for TT to have LGBT characters... but for the gaming community to be more accepting! How many gamers co… moremplained about the fact that in Mass Effect 3, if you haven't played Mass Effect 1 or 2, and you play as FemShep you can only engage in Lesbian relationships!
No guy has complained about that... on the other hand, there was this HUGE uproar when they introduced gay relationships for the same game! What the hell, gaming community?!
Talk about misogyny and homophobia and, worst of all, hypocresy!
TT, just bring Matthew back for Season Three, he's really cute.
There, a quick Photoshop sesion by me and he's ready for S3.
Oh, didn't remember you could choose who to save, Kaidan or Ashley (even then, how is the first-time player supposed to know the gender of each name, and furthermore, if they are romance options?), but yeah, Kaidan is so numbly boring I went with Cortez...
Now that the topic has been brought up, replacing Cortez's dead husband just to have him cry over Shepard's death months later... is kind of a dick move in retrospective.
(Why couldn't they make Garrus bi?)
Well, technically speaking, FemShep could still get it on with Kaidan if you didn't play the first two games but I see your point. I mean, Kaidan is boring as fuck.
It may not be something you're born with. But neither is being born straight. Both orientations are things that develop over time whether someone can control it or not. I don't think it's something that's exclusively influence by outside choices, if at all. Maybe both, inner and outer influences play a role in it in someway. idk. Babies aren't aware of orientations or liking boys or girls at the outset just like they aren't aware at what hand dexterity they are best at, at the outset. Subconsciously would probably be the word to describe how someone develops these things.
Never said it was alright because animals do it (I'm with you that cannibalism and pedophilia, are sickening), but it can't be considered abnormal either because either way, it occurs in nature. In us and other species. We have laws against cannibalism, pedophilia, etc., which is why we don't engage in those. We use laws to shape and stabilize our society and create morals. You could also argue that morals are subjective. Legal and normality aren't synonymous.
I believe gender roles and opposite gender interactions aren't enough to make or influence someone to be straight or gay. Just because a guy doesn't act like you would expect boys/men to behave or doesn't socialize with girls doesn't mean he's going to be/are gay. For instance, there are boys who love to cross dress, wear dresses and hang out with boys exclusively, but that doesn't mean they are going to be gay when they get older. I have friends that exclusively hang out with their own gender but they're as straight as they come. And like Dome said, just because a homosexual person chooses not to engage in same sex doesn't mean that person is not gay and vise versa; that's one of the reasons I brought up asexuality. For instance, a guy could have gynophobia (fear of women) but that doesn't mean he's gay, he could very well still be attracted to women.
I think what the problem is, is that people place too much emphasis on what boys and girls should or should not do or behave. For example, girls are allowed to compliment and show affection for one another without problems, but if a guy so much as compliments another guy or says "I love you" in a friendly way, it's seen as abnormal which means "he must be gay". You could also apply that to guys who may love things that tend to be associated with girls, like liking dolls, certain colors like pink, certain tv shows like MLP: Friendship is Magic, movies, etc. My point is these influence aren't enough to make someone grow up to be straight or gay. I hate to admit something like this online, but when I was a kid, I liked playing with dolls and grew up watching and liking the old MLP cartoons, Strawberry Shortcake, Jem, and Sailor Moon with my older sister (I still watch them too, and I'm 23. lol). I also have a tendency to use feminine sounding user names like, Aura, Aurora, Claire, Genesis along with female avatars, and prefer to play as female characters in video games any chance I get, but I know I'm not gay because I tense up and get nervous and tongue-tied when I speak to a girl I like. I don't do this with men.
Even though this is getting off topic, I'll use this game called Final Fantasy XV as an example. All over various game forums, you have people bashing and saying that the main characters in the game are gay simply because it portrays all of them looking like typical bishounens, (beautiful boys/men) with some of them looking more feminine looking than others, on a roadtrip together to save the world with the theme revolving around tight bonds of friendship.
Asexuality has more than one definition. Your definition is true, however it can also mean a lack of sexual attraction, as well as lacking sexual organs. I'm incline to believe that if it occurs in nature where individuals have no conscious control over it then it is normal, just like left-handedness, which was also once considered not normal going way back, so I don't really understand the whole normalize for social reasoning. Just because incest and pedophilia are considered illegal doesn't mean homosexuality should be deemed abnormal or against the law. Even though I don't want to bring race into this, many people used that same justification to make interracial couplings illegal. Two homosexual adults can consent with one another, children cannot.
Oh my Izanagi! look how much I typed.
But in all fairness, we can just agree to disagree.
As I said before, it isn't a conscious decision, as though they wake up and decide to be gay, but it isn't something you are born with eithe… morer. I believe it is developed due to outside influences. I do like the analogy you've used, but I stand by my point.
Comparing animals and humans in this specific case isn't necessarily the best usage of support, for animals also engage in incest, cannibalism, pedophilia etc. To say it's alright simply because animals are doing it, would also be condoning the other things that animals do that would otherwise be monstrous if a human ever did them. By "less gender socialization", I mean that there weren't clear genders, or gender roles established during childhood, that the child did not get enough socialization with the opposite gender.
All I am saying is that biologically, the humans' function is to procreate. This is simply stripping it down to science, the human body of the female and male were mad… [view original content]
Most people are like, "Lesbians? Hell yeah man, I wanna get in between them ))" but when it comes to gay characters it's like, "noOoO!! GROSS GAY CHARACTERS IN MY GAME ??? mY VIDEO GAME !!! ?? b..but straight people...my heterosexuality....,,,,"
Exactly my thoughts.
Do you guys have any idea of how homophobic the gaming community is? Having some representation in games wouldn't hu… morert anybody, not saying that it should be in the TWD games though.
Hell, just look at the uproar that took place when they allowed for gay relationships in Mass Effect 3... but nobody cares that, if you haven't played Mass Effect 1 or 2, the only relationships you can have as FemShep are Lesbian ones! Talk about hypocresy!
"Oh? A gay/lesbian character? That's cool " somebody says, followed by the screams and shouts from an angry gamer bursting nto their home, "GO BaCK TO TUMBLR FEMINAZI !!!"
Seriously, it's all the same to you people...
Gay/Lesbian? "Tumblr feminazi"
Transgender? "Tumblr feminazi"
"Oh, you're ______? I guess you're Tumblr feminazi Sorry, I don't make the rules."
Racism can't die. As there are still assholes. There will always be assholes. You know who else can be racist? Black people. Racism is not the norm anymore like it was in the 60s. Black people are now equal in terms of jobs, pay and public reaction.
Why couldn't they make Wrex Bi, why couldn't they make Grunt Bi, why couldn't they make Joker bi. You can't expect them to make a character how you want them. And supposedly they were going to have Kaiden gay from day 1. But after the shit fox stirred up they removed it to avoid more flak from the already overly protective parent's.
Oh, didn't remember you could choose who to save, Kaidan or Ashley (even then, how is the first-time player supposed to know the gender of e… moreach name, and furthermore, if they are romance options?), but yeah, Kaidan is so numbly boring I went with Cortez...
Now that the topic has been brought up, replacing Cortez's dead husband just to have him cry over Shepard's death months later... is kind of a dick move in retrospective.
(Why couldn't they make Garrus bi?)
eh...i'm gonna have to disagree. is racism like it was in the 60s? of course not. is it still there? yep. the only thing is now its subtle racism. no one comes out and just says it.
Racism can't die. As there are still assholes. There will always be assholes. You know who else can be racist? Black people. Racism is not the norm anymore like it was in the 60s. Black people are now equal in terms of jobs, pay and public reaction.
of course its not like the 60s all i'm saying is that racism is still alive its just more subtle. i don't like the vibe you give off. you seem like a dick.
Racism can't die. As there are still assholes. There will always be assholes. You know who else can be racist? Black people. Racism is not the norm anymore like it was in the 60s. Black people are now equal in terms of jobs, pay and public reaction.
of course its not like the 60s all i'm saying is that racism is still alive its just more subtle. i don't like the vibe you give off. you seem like a dick.
Comments
He wasn't comparing these things with homosexuality in that way. He wasn't saying "homosexuality is as bad as these". With a little bit of thinking it should be clear what he meant.
He meant that when you are screaming for Homosexual People to be represented in the game, all those people could complain as well. What would you say if a, say, asexual person would complain that there are no asexual people in the game? I don't think you'd jump up and say "Oh yes, we definitely need those, they also have to be represented all across the media!"... would you?
Wait...there was a gay couple in ep. 2?
Yeah. And sometimes little boys develop crushes on other little boys and little girls develop crushes on other little girls. In calling heterosexuality "the default," it seems that you think that in the absence of any external influence, all boys will grow up to like girls and all girls will grow up to like boys. But that's not what we see. What we see are very young boys and girls growing up in the same environments as their peers and having same-sex romantic interests. Indeed, some parents go to great lengths to instill heterosexuality in their children and still end up with gay kids and a lot of parents place no emphasis on their kids to be heterosexuals and wind up with heterosexual kids.
That's the crux of the comparison between race and sexual orientation: that they are both traits that a person has no conscious control over. And it doesn't make sense to judge someone for something they have no conscious control over. Your point that "there is no gay gene" doesn't have any relevance to Flog's comparison because the absence of a gay gene doesn't mean that being gay is something that people can control. Do you get it now?
What? How can homosexuality be seen as uncontrolled lust? It's not defined by promiscuity or a higher degree of sexual interest. In fact, homosexuals have no interest in the things that their heterosexual counterparts lust after. Most of them just want to pursue a monogamous relationship with someone they love. How is that any more lustful than what most heterosexual want?
You can't claim to know what environment all little boys and girls grow up who develop feelings for the same sex, nor can you claim to know what happens every single day in the house of those children that become gay.
I only say conscious, because I doubt that anyone wakes up and says "I want to be gay, so I'm now gay." Honestly, you have got to stop with the race and sexuality comparisons, not only is it silly, but it's just plain rude to say that being gay is the same as being black, or any other race. I have made it very clear that where a gay person can choose not to engage in homosexual actions/relations, a black person doesn't have that choice. You can't make a unconscious decision to change your race, you are born that way.It can be controlled, people choose not to control it.
I have no desire to insult anyone here who is homosexual, if I were to express my thoughts any further than that, I know that I will get banned.
i'm in public but it doesn't matter because you're such a bigot anything i say won't matter. your way of thinking is fucked up and you need to change it. seriously.
Ah yes, bigot. Like I haven't heard that one before. Bigot, racist, and homophobe are thrown around so much nowadays that they don't hold any real impact or meaning anymore. Way to be tolerant of different opinions, what makes you think that anyone, much less me, gives a damn what you think? Go ahead, and run along now.
the way you act online just proves that your real life sucks ass. you need the internet to have any kind of power because you have none in real life. being rude to 17-year-olds makes you feel good huh? does it raise your self esteem any?
Hey now, no need to get pissy. I'm only treating you the way you're treating me. You've insulted me personally from the start. I have no reason to treat you nicely, if your feelings are hurt that much by my remarks, then you should treat people the way you want to be treated.
my feelings aren't hurt at all but i like how you ignored what i wrote. people would have gotten mad for juding their personal life. most would said their lives are fine but you just ignored which leads me to believe that i'm right. i'll never treat someone like you with respect ever.
Why would I address your desperate/amusing attempts to hurt my feelings? I have no need to prove anything to you, you're just some random angry kid on the internet lol. If that's what you want to think of me, I'm not going to stop you, because I don't care. Then don't get upset and say whiny shit like "does it make you feel better to be rude to 17 year olds". You tell me your age as though that should make me feel bad. You are three years younger than me, grow up and deal with the shit that you start.:P
i can deal with the shit i start. i have no time for you. bye.
Alright then, it was nice talking to you.
Yes, but promoting the acceptance of homosexuality, transgenderism, and such, is a political ideal. And while it's a political ideal that I happen to hold, I don't really like fans demanding that artists extol their personal political ideals when it barely has any relevance to the subject matter of the work. "Yeah, I guess Breaking Bad was a good show, but I really wanted to see them bring up climate change and environmentalism a bit more." It just seems...I don't know. Naggy?
Well no, but my point is that there appears to be no systematic bias influencing whether or not children become homosexual. Children raised at the same time, by the same parents, in the same household can have different sexual orientations. Now you can speculate that in every single case of a child growing up to be gay, there's always a particular thing that occurs that never occurs when children grow up to be straight, but that seems pretty far-fetched to me.
Do you not understand that choosing to engage in homosexual/heterosexual relationships is not the same thing as choosing to be homosexual or heterosexual? To strike an analogy to race, it would be akin to the difference between being black and personally identifying as black. A black person can certainly choose to not identify him or herself as black, but he or she would still be black. A gay person can choose to not engage in homosexual relationships, but he or she would still be gay. That's what we're talking about: what a person is, not what a person does.
I have to agree with DomeWing and Flog. Homosexuality is no more a "choice" than say "choosing" to be left-handed or right-handed. Just like I don't believe some people up and choose to be left-handed when they learn to draw and write (and yes, I'm well aware individuals can teach and discipline themselves to be ambidextrous, however it still doesn't mean that they still won't choose one hand over the other as their dominate), some people don't up and choose what their sexual orientation is either. And Like Flog said, if it was so much as a choice, I' pretty sure some people in Russia and certain African countries wouldn't choose to be homosexual since in certain countries it's legal to imprison them.
And what do you mean by "more susceptible to homosexual thoughts"? Because to be fair, homosexuality isn't something that occurs only in humans, but also in various animal species. I'm also a bit curious on the "less gender socialization" thing as well.
I wouldn't say being born heterosexual is the default just because it's our purpose to be with the opposite sex to procreate, because one could argue that maybe the purpose of homosexuality is to stabilize our ever increasing population. Then you have many people who either can't or choose not to procreate as well as other persons who are asexual and don't show any sexual interests in either genders, etc. Even though, heterosexuality is the majority it doesn't mean that homosexuality isn't normal or against nature in any form.
And why does a game, movie or whatever have to do that to make people feel different? Provided everyone in the game isnt mistreating said character simply because of that and everyone else agrees with the mistreatment then I dont see the problem. Also while racism and all the other types of abuse exist there no where near as mainstream any more. Society generally judges the haters rather than the people themselves any more. And again this isnt about this at all its about that having that they have to have a gay, Bi or whatever character just to appease certain minorities is dumb and unneeded, and in the case where its clearly shown one or both charcaters are literally just defined by their relationship, for example you end up with Sarita type charcaters where there only trait is being in a relaionship with another charcater.
I'm not saying just TWDG should have to. I'm saying it'd be nice if they were better represented in mainstream media. And for the character to not be defined by their LGBT status, that'd be rubbish if they were.
At the end of the day yeah they should be but at the same time there dosnt have to be a character in everything. just to appease the loud easily offended minority the character is often forced to be a saint purely to avoid backlash from that community.
Take Sarah, who wasnt even actually said to have problems people just assumed, when she died people just went nuts because surely someone like that should not die, despite Nick clearly having a more pointless death that episode .
once again they are a minority its less likely we would meet someone like that just based on averages
Isn't it 75% of people know someone who is gay/lesbian? Idk
Yeah probably, but at the same time I'm sure 100% people know someone whos straight, Im not saying being a minority is bad or anyway inferior however it is a minority. And to be fair several of the characters could have been gay or Bi because lets face it we dont and shouldnt be able to tell anyway and instead maybe leave it to imagination ( E.G Nick kind of gave off that vibe).
It can be hinted at but honestly a character shouldnt be defined by there sexuality or whatever thats a bad character
I don't give two shits about LGBT characters, I care about the story.
As I said before, it isn't a conscious decision, as though they wake up and decide to be gay, but it isn't something you are born with either. I believe it is developed due to outside influences. I do like the analogy you've used, but I stand by my point.
Comparing animals and humans in this specific case isn't necessarily the best usage of support, for animals also engage in incest, cannibalism, pedophilia etc. To say it's alright simply because animals are doing it, would also be condoning the other things that animals do that would otherwise be monstrous if a human ever did them. By "less gender socialization", I mean that there weren't clear genders, or gender roles established during childhood, that the child did not get enough socialization with the opposite gender.
All I am saying is that biologically, the humans' function is to procreate. This is simply stripping it down to science, the human body of the female and male were made for reproduction. If we were to not be sentient, and were less intelligent, then our only drive in life would be to reproduce. It is an interesting theory that you've proposed, but there is no proof behind it, only theory.
Asexuality literally mean to procreate with yourself. If someone were really asexual, then they would be able to procreate with themselves. Which they can't. Either people need to come up with a new term, or this sexuality doesn't exist. I am firm in my stance that Homosexuality is not normal, that it is their desires which has led them down that path. And their desires were simply constructed through how they perceive society. And how they perceive society is constructed from their environment; media, and influential people etc. People are trying to normalize homosexuality for social reasoning, if it was as an appeal to nature then one would have to say that all other sexual orientations are normal, including incest and pedophilia.
They did a good job with Walter and Matthew. Some writers can do a poor job when it comes to writing gay characters, but Walter and Matthew were written as they should be: like regular human beings.
I'd like to see some more LGBT characters too. I'm glad they also introduced a gay character in the TV Series too. Hope Tara sticks around in the group for a long time.
Well, technically speaking, FemShep could still get it on with Kaidan if you didn't play the first two games but I see your point. I mean, Kaidan is boring as fuck.
Yes, Walter and Matthew
that would be so cool
It doesn't really matter, does it? People are people.
Oh, didn't remember you could choose who to save, Kaidan or Ashley (even then, how is the first-time player supposed to know the gender of each name, and furthermore, if they are romance options?), but yeah, Kaidan is so numbly boring I went with Cortez...
Now that the topic has been brought up, replacing Cortez's dead husband just to have him cry over Shepard's death months later... is kind of a dick move in retrospective.
(Why couldn't they make Garrus bi?)
It may not be something you're born with. But neither is being born straight. Both orientations are things that develop over time whether someone can control it or not. I don't think it's something that's exclusively influence by outside choices, if at all. Maybe both, inner and outer influences play a role in it in someway. idk. Babies aren't aware of orientations or liking boys or girls at the outset just like they aren't aware at what hand dexterity they are best at, at the outset. Subconsciously would probably be the word to describe how someone develops these things.
Never said it was alright because animals do it (I'm with you that cannibalism and pedophilia, are sickening), but it can't be considered abnormal either because either way, it occurs in nature. In us and other species. We have laws against cannibalism, pedophilia, etc., which is why we don't engage in those. We use laws to shape and stabilize our society and create morals. You could also argue that morals are subjective. Legal and normality aren't synonymous.
I believe gender roles and opposite gender interactions aren't enough to make or influence someone to be straight or gay. Just because a guy doesn't act like you would expect boys/men to behave or doesn't socialize with girls doesn't mean he's going to be/are gay. For instance, there are boys who love to cross dress, wear dresses and hang out with boys exclusively, but that doesn't mean they are going to be gay when they get older. I have friends that exclusively hang out with their own gender but they're as straight as they come. And like Dome said, just because a homosexual person chooses not to engage in same sex doesn't mean that person is not gay and vise versa; that's one of the reasons I brought up asexuality. For instance, a guy could have gynophobia (fear of women) but that doesn't mean he's gay, he could very well still be attracted to women.
I think what the problem is, is that people place too much emphasis on what boys and girls should or should not do or behave. For example, girls are allowed to compliment and show affection for one another without problems, but if a guy so much as compliments another guy or says "I love you" in a friendly way, it's seen as abnormal which means "he must be gay". You could also apply that to guys who may love things that tend to be associated with girls, like liking dolls, certain colors like pink, certain tv shows like MLP: Friendship is Magic, movies, etc. My point is these influence aren't enough to make someone grow up to be straight or gay. I hate to admit something like this online, but when I was a kid, I liked playing with dolls and grew up watching and liking the old MLP cartoons, Strawberry Shortcake, Jem, and Sailor Moon with my older sister (I still watch them too, and I'm 23. lol). I also have a tendency to use feminine sounding user names like, Aura, Aurora, Claire, Genesis along with female avatars, and prefer to play as female characters in video games any chance I get, but I know I'm not gay because I tense up and get nervous and tongue-tied when I speak to a girl I like. I don't do this with men.
Even though this is getting off topic, I'll use this game called Final Fantasy XV as an example. All over various game forums, you have people bashing and saying that the main characters in the game are gay simply because it portrays all of them looking like typical bishounens, (beautiful boys/men) with some of them looking more feminine looking than others, on a roadtrip together to save the world with the theme revolving around tight bonds of friendship.
Asexuality has more than one definition. Your definition is true, however it can also mean a lack of sexual attraction, as well as lacking sexual organs. I'm incline to believe that if it occurs in nature where individuals have no conscious control over it then it is normal, just like left-handedness, which was also once considered not normal going way back, so I don't really understand the whole normalize for social reasoning. Just because incest and pedophilia are considered illegal doesn't mean homosexuality should be deemed abnormal or against the law. Even though I don't want to bring race into this, many people used that same justification to make interracial couplings illegal. Two homosexual adults can consent with one another, children cannot.
Oh my Izanagi! look how much I typed.
But in all fairness, we can just agree to disagree.
Most people are like, "Lesbians? Hell yeah man, I wanna get in between them
))" but when it comes to gay characters it's like, "noOoO!! GROSS GAY CHARACTERS IN MY GAME ??? mY VIDEO GAME !!! ?? b..but straight people...my heterosexuality....,,,,"
"Oh? A gay/lesbian character? That's cool
" somebody says, followed by the screams and shouts from an angry gamer bursting nto their home, "GO BaCK TO TUMBLR FEMINAZI !!!" 
Sorry, I don't make the rules."
Seriously, it's all the same to you people...
Gay/Lesbian? "Tumblr feminazi"
Transgender? "Tumblr feminazi"
"Oh, you're ______? I guess you're Tumblr feminazi
Racism can't die. As there are still assholes. There will always be assholes. You know who else can be racist? Black people. Racism is not the norm anymore like it was in the 60s. Black people are now equal in terms of jobs, pay and public reaction.
Why couldn't they make Wrex Bi, why couldn't they make Grunt Bi, why couldn't they make Joker bi. You can't expect them to make a character how you want them. And supposedly they were going to have Kaiden gay from day 1. But after the shit fox stirred up they removed it to avoid more flak from the already overly protective parent's.
Really man?
Its a characters nickname, he has it because hes badass, you should take it as a complement.
Who gives a fuck
eh...i'm gonna have to disagree. is racism like it was in the 60s? of course not. is it still there? yep. the only thing is now its subtle racism. no one comes out and just says it.
of course its not like the 60s all i'm saying is that racism is still alive its just more subtle. i don't like the vibe you give off. you seem like a dick.
Is it really necessary?
Stop. Pulling. Shit. From. Nowhere.
Being that there are several gay/lesbian characters in the comic, I think not shying away from representing them in the game is only fair.