Jane should have killed Arvo when they first met then the gunfight would never happened if Kenny was there when Clem first met Arvo he would have killed him. You cant take any chances in ZA
And we have to go with everyone else too. As Zykelator himself concedes in this very thread, the same things happen with Jane. Kenny and Clem know each other and have history - he knew her when she was a young kid and he's the oldest acquaintance she has left alive on the planet. So when she is part of a new group and he comes into the equation, both outsiders and yet both clearly knowing each other, of course she is going to be asked to talk to him. You're confusing what we know and understand with what the game characters know and, as pointed out, there are plenty of opportunities to show we're not his friend.
The very end of season 2 was a misfire, but the misfire was not exclusively focused on Kenny. Yet this thread is. It's reaching really hard just to create another Kenny issue.
Multiple times Clem was told "Go talk to him. He's your friend Clem." No matter what you do, Clementine will cry when/if Kenny dies. You can… more choose to tell people like Luke "I never liked him. He was a jerk." But still you have to go with him. Still you have to deal with Kenny's tragedy arc V. 2.0, instead we aren't Lee this time, we are Clementine, who never seemed to have a meaningful conversation with Kenny in Season 1, yet we are pushed over and over again with characters insisting Kenny is Clementines friend.
And we have to go with everyone else too. As Zykelator himself concedes in this very thread, the same things happen with Jane. Kenny and Cle… morem know each other and have history - he knew her when she was a young kid and he's the oldest acquaintance she has left alive on the planet. So when she is part of a new group and he comes into the equation, both outsiders and yet both clearly knowing each other, of course she is going to be asked to talk to him. You're confusing what we know and understand with what the game characters know and, as pointed out, there are plenty of opportunities to show we're not his friend.
The very end of season 2 was a misfire, but the misfire was not exclusively focused on Kenny. Yet this thread is. It's reaching really hard just to create another Kenny issue.
And yet as pointed out over and over, you have many options for Clem to say he isn't a friend. Their history respected, no friendship needed. This is creating another Kenny issue where there is either none or the issues you're desperately searching for apply to many more characters in the season. It's just the same old Kenny thread.
I played first 2 episodes only and this came up my mind, so i decided to talk about it.
And no, im not creating another issue, im address… moreing existing one.
Kenny and Clem know each other and have history
They knew each other, but they didnt have any kind of friendship the writers falsely tried to imply. Favor to Kenny fans... Thats all.
I'll give zykelator this one. The scene where Kenny stays behind with Ben was terrible awful and horrible. It's so bad that I'm planning on, once I get it for PC on steam sale, figuring out how to keep it from happening (maybe tell Ben not to come or something) because I don't ever want to see it again. That scene is a dark stain on an otherwise great series
So,,, I suppose that you forgive Lilly and didn't hate her for what she did to carley/doug, because she did it when she was angry for the missing supplies and also she was sad because of her dad....
when people are angry they say things they don't actually mean.... you should know that especially after episode 4 but you most likely don't get that cause you are just being a blind kenny hater
So,,, I suppose that you forgive Lilly and didn't hate her for what she did to carley/doug, because she did it when she was angry for the missing supplies and also she was sad because of her dad....
lilly murdered that is different from just treating someone like shit if kenny killed someone after sarita died then that would be a whole different story you can't compare the two...
So,,, I suppose that you forgive Lilly and didn't hate her for what she did to carley/doug, because she did it when she was angry for the missing supplies and also she was sad because of her dad....
lilly murdered that is different from just treating someone like shit if kenny killed someone after sarita died then that would be a whole different story you can't compare the two...
Lilly is a monster because she killed someone in blind anger.
Kenny gets a pass because he's got a dick. It's all about whats between your legs. People feel a lot more intimidated when women show anger and aggression towards a situation then when men do.
I suspected people were mad at Clementine if she shouts at Kenny in episode four because they wanted Clementine to play the "subservient female" figure. Coddling and playing a passive role. Which is also why people like Sarita so much, but now I'm getting off topic.
The point is that Lilly lashed out, which was bad, but it's "atrocious" because she's a female. Whereas Kenny is a guy, so it "makes more sense."
Lilly is a monster because she killed someone in blind anger.
Kenny gets a pass because he's got a dick. It's all about whats between you… morer legs. People feel a lot more intimidated when women show anger and aggression towards a situation then when men do.
I suspected people were mad at Clementine if she shouts at Kenny in episode four because they wanted Clementine to play the "subservient female" figure. Coddling and playing a passive role. Which is also why people like Sarita so much, but now I'm getting off topic.
The point is that Lilly lashed out, which was bad, but it's "atrocious" because she's a female. Whereas Kenny is a guy, so it "makes more sense."
well he is the thing with ben he actually was the person who got his whole family killed unlike carley/doug who had nothing to do with larry's death and with jane don't even try to make her seem like the victim kenny may have started it but jane could have easily ended it after she sliced him by saying the baby is actually alive but no she just had to keep on going to prove a point
A lot depends on the player, but Kenny and Clementine's friendship was closeness by association (which doesn't equate to forced imo). Kenny and Lee were like brothers. Clementine was like a daughter to Lee. There is just no way they are not gonna be close.
Then there is the circumstances; The last thing we see Kenny do in season 1 is risk his life to save Clementine. Kenny probably assumed she was either dead, or rotting somwhere with the Stranger. Clementine obviously thought Kenny was long gone... seeing each other again would have sparked off pretty stong emotions. (especially given Clementine's uneasy relationship with her group)
Then there is responsiblity. With Lee out of the picture, Kenny would probably have felt more of a responsibility to take care of Clementine, thus making them even closer. Imo it was actually Luke and Clementine's friendship that came off as a little forced. I just saw some dude trying to get too close too quickly.
again why would the writers give us the option to say both he is a old friend and i don't really know him that well? if it wasn't up to us and clem truely didn't know kenny then it would have automatically been i don't really know him that well
they clearly intended it for us to decide you don't get to decide for us
Its not up to us to decide Clementine's history...
They could have aswell put a character we never met and said "you had a good friendshi… morep in this period, which you never saw". Maybe Clementine's friend from school or some shit. How are people supposed to care about Kenny - Clementine friendship, if they have no information about them interacting with each other? This forced friendship was just a favor to Kenny fans.
Love all your posts @zykelator and yes it's forced. There were no options to not agree with him. Especially in the truck in episode 3. I don't want to try to escape, just sit down Kenny, but no there wasn't an option.
They clearly didnt think it through properly. We have no idea if they have any kind of friendship from season 1, because there most likely wasnt any, but as soon as we see him, we get an option to hug him. And then she can say "i dont know him actually that well", "its a long story" or "we're old friends". You dont have to knew someone well in order to call them old friends. For example, i might call people from school old friends, even if i didnt know them that well, they were just in same class as i was.
"i dont know him actually that well" tells a lot more than "we're old friends". We dont get to choose Clementines history, it has already happened so there is no point that we could make such decisions and it would determinate our Clementine's past.
again why would the writers give us the option to say both he is a old friend and i don't really know him that well? if it wasn't up to us a… morend clem truely didn't know kenny then it would have automatically been i don't really know him that well
they clearly intended it for us to decide you don't get to decide for us
I'm not sure if i weighed in on this or not. Yeah i can see what you mean. There was a lot of forced Kenny time, but there also was a lot of forced Jane time. I remember thinking to myself I just met Jane, and now she is crying about her life. God this is going to be annoying. I am one of those people who never want to talk about other people's feelings, especially to strangers i just met.
I never got involved with other people's personal lives. I wasn't the person that would care enough. These last few days.
Depending on your relationship with Kenny, he could refuse to help Lee find Clem after she went missing. His last act of sacrifice IS heroic in a way (whether it's putting Ben out of his misery or saving Christa's life), but it wasn't helping Lee find Clem at all.
A lot depends on the player, but Kenny and Clementine's friendship was closeness by association (which doesn't equate to forced imo). Kenny … moreand Lee were like brothers. Clementine was like a daughter to Lee. There is just no way they are not gonna be close.
Then there is the circumstances; The last thing we see Kenny do in season 1 is risk his life to save Clementine. Kenny probably assumed she was either dead, or rotting somwhere with the Stranger. Clementine obviously thought Kenny was long gone... seeing each other again would have sparked off pretty stong emotions. (especially given Clementine's uneasy relationship with her group)
Then there is responsiblity. With Lee out of the picture, Kenny would probably have felt more of a responsibility to take care of Clementine, thus making them even closer. Imo it was actually Luke and Clementine's friendship that came off as a little forced. I just saw some dude trying to get too close too quickly.
Oh, ok. Haven't played the first one in a while, but I remember him being in on the Clementine rescue mission in my game anyway. I think some people needed to convince him to come or something. I can't remember having to do any of that at all.
Depending on your relationship with Kenny, he could refuse to help Lee find Clem after she went missing. His last act of sacrifice IS heroi… morec in a way (whether it's putting Ben out of his misery or saving Christa's life), but it wasn't helping Lee find Clem at all.
I don't have a problem with this, me being a Kenny fan and all. If you want to talk about forced relationships however, let's look at AJ. I … moredon't like the character, but just about every single character does. I don't understand why they don't give us the option to hate on it or let others deal with it.
For what it's worth, on my first playthrough I didn't know about Kenny refusing to help Lee find Clem because my relationship with him was amiable enough. But you have to admit that sacrificing himself for Ben/Christa didn't actually help Lee out.
And I thought Clem & Kenny's relationship in the first two episodes they had together in Season 2 was believable enough. They had a mutual friend in Lee, were glad to see each other after having written them off for dead, and Kenny was eager to create a new family again. In Episodes 4 and 5, Jane and Bonnie both assume that Clem was close to Kenny and coerce her into becoming his moral support - a heavy emotional burden for a kid who might not have liked Kenny himself that much to begin with.
But by the time she ends up at the rest-stop, Jane pretending to have killed a baby and Kenny once again reverting back into violence turned her off completely.
Oh, ok. Haven't played the first one in a while, but I remember him being in on the Clementine rescue mission in my game anyway. I think some people needed to convince him to come or something. I can't remember having to do any of that at all.
It feels to me you're just really anti-Kenny. You're making him out as though he's a horrible man. He took that beating for Clem, not because he was selfish, because he wanted to protect a little girl from being beat up by a horrible man.
Every choice they made at Carvers was a risk and everyone had their role to play for the plan, when the plan failed Kenny took responsibility and took the punishment for it.
You're not helping your own points much by constantly praising Jane too, each of these characters has their flaws, that's why you are forced to watch one of them die in the end. In this world no ones is perfect, Jane kept pushing Kenny to his limit just to prove her point and Kenny let his aggression get the better of him.
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Jane didnt think Clementine would understand that, so she just threatened Arvo.
And we have to go with everyone else too. As Zykelator himself concedes in this very thread, the same things happen with Jane. Kenny and Clem know each other and have history - he knew her when she was a young kid and he's the oldest acquaintance she has left alive on the planet. So when she is part of a new group and he comes into the equation, both outsiders and yet both clearly knowing each other, of course she is going to be asked to talk to him. You're confusing what we know and understand with what the game characters know and, as pointed out, there are plenty of opportunities to show we're not his friend.
The very end of season 2 was a misfire, but the misfire was not exclusively focused on Kenny. Yet this thread is. It's reaching really hard just to create another Kenny issue.
I played first 2 episodes only and this came up my mind, so i decided to talk about it.
And no, im not creating another issue, im addressing existing one.
They knew each other, but they didnt have any kind of friendship the writers falsely tried to imply. Favor to Kenny fans... Thats all.
And yet as pointed out over and over, you have many options for Clem to say he isn't a friend. Their history respected, no friendship needed. This is creating another Kenny issue where there is either none or the issues you're desperately searching for apply to many more characters in the season. It's just the same old Kenny thread.
I'll give zykelator this one. The scene where Kenny stays behind with Ben was terrible awful and horrible. It's so bad that I'm planning on, once I get it for PC on steam sale, figuring out how to keep it from happening (maybe tell Ben not to come or something) because I don't ever want to see it again. That scene is a dark stain on an otherwise great series
So,,, I suppose that you forgive Lilly and didn't hate her for what she did to carley/doug, because she did it when she was angry for the missing supplies and also she was sad because of her dad....
Only Kenny can use anger/depression as an excuse.
That just pissed Arvo more.
lilly murdered that is different from just treating someone like shit if kenny killed someone after sarita died then that would be a whole different story you can't compare the two...
He wanted to murder Ben before and tries to murder Jane.
And also kills Carver....
Lilly is a monster because she killed someone in blind anger.
Kenny gets a pass because he's got a dick. It's all about whats between your legs. People feel a lot more intimidated when women show anger and aggression towards a situation then when men do.
I suspected people were mad at Clementine if she shouts at Kenny in episode four because they wanted Clementine to play the "subservient female" figure. Coddling and playing a passive role. Which is also why people like Sarita so much, but now I'm getting off topic.
The point is that Lilly lashed out, which was bad, but it's "atrocious" because she's a female. Whereas Kenny is a guy, so it "makes more sense."
I dont think this has nothing to do with sexism. Kenny fans just justify his behaviour by any means and have double standards for this.
well he is the thing with ben he actually was the person who got his whole family killed unlike carley/doug who had nothing to do with larry's death and with jane don't even try to make her seem like the victim kenny may have started it but jane could have easily ended it after she sliced him by saying the baby is actually alive but no she just had to keep on going to prove a point
are you really complaining that kenny killed carver?
A lot depends on the player, but Kenny and Clementine's friendship was closeness by association (which doesn't equate to forced imo). Kenny and Lee were like brothers. Clementine was like a daughter to Lee. There is just no way they are not gonna be close.
Then there is the circumstances; The last thing we see Kenny do in season 1 is risk his life to save Clementine. Kenny probably assumed she was either dead, or rotting somwhere with the Stranger. Clementine obviously thought Kenny was long gone... seeing each other again would have sparked off pretty stong emotions. (especially given Clementine's uneasy relationship with her group)
Then there is responsiblity. With Lee out of the picture, Kenny would probably have felt more of a responsibility to take care of Clementine, thus making them even closer. Imo it was actually Luke and Clementine's friendship that came off as a little forced. I just saw some dude trying to get too close too quickly.
Just admit it. You deffend Jane only because she's a female.
It's a forced friendship.
It's not that much close to make it "friendship"
I still hate Kenny for what he said to Clem back in Episode 4.
I would defend anyone with similar worldview as i have. Doesnt matter if its male or female.
are you for real? 1 2 and 5 were the good ones, 3 and 4 sucked a huge load of...
3 & 4 were best imo. 5th came after that. 1&2 were the worst.
again why would the writers give us the option to say both he is a old friend and i don't really know him that well? if it wasn't up to us and clem truely didn't know kenny then it would have automatically been i don't really know him that well
they clearly intended it for us to decide you don't get to decide for us
I didnt mind him killing Carver, just the fact that he enjoyed it bothered me.
Love all your posts @zykelator and yes it's forced. There were no options to not agree with him. Especially in the truck in episode 3. I don't want to try to escape, just sit down Kenny, but no there wasn't an option.
lol nope (imo)
They clearly didnt think it through properly. We have no idea if they have any kind of friendship from season 1, because there most likely wasnt any, but as soon as we see him, we get an option to hug him. And then she can say "i dont know him actually that well", "its a long story" or "we're old friends". You dont have to knew someone well in order to call them old friends. For example, i might call people from school old friends, even if i didnt know them that well, they were just in same class as i was.
"i dont know him actually that well" tells a lot more than "we're old friends". We dont get to choose Clementines history, it has already happened so there is no point that we could make such decisions and it would determinate our Clementine's past.
Well If Carver would beaten you like he did to Kenny and you would lose your eye I'm pretity sure you would also enjoy killing him.
We are talking about opinions... you comment was meaningless.
I'm not sure if i weighed in on this or not. Yeah i can see what you mean. There was a lot of forced Kenny time, but there also was a lot of forced Jane time. I remember thinking to myself I just met Jane, and now she is crying about her life. God this is going to be annoying. I am one of those people who never want to talk about other people's feelings, especially to strangers i just met.
I never got involved with other people's personal lives. I wasn't the person that would care enough. These last few days.
I wouldn't call S2 shit but S1 was Waaaaaaaaaaay better.
If i would want someone dead, i would do it as quickly as possible and painless. I take no pleasure in seeing other people suffer.
Jesus Christ , so not appropriate.
Depending on your relationship with Kenny, he could refuse to help Lee find Clem after she went missing. His last act of sacrifice IS heroic in a way (whether it's putting Ben out of his misery or saving Christa's life), but it wasn't helping Lee find Clem at all.
Backs away from the Kenny war thread by the user with a Jane icon
I'm sure you wouldn't say that if you lost your eye.
Oh, ok. Haven't played the first one in a while, but I remember him being in on the Clementine rescue mission in my game anyway. I think some people needed to convince him to come or something. I can't remember having to do any of that at all.
I dunno about you, but a baby would be a relief after 2 years of dead people everywhere.
Especially for Clem, who's implied to have seen Christa's baby die.
For what it's worth, on my first playthrough I didn't know about Kenny refusing to help Lee find Clem because my relationship with him was amiable enough. But you have to admit that sacrificing himself for Ben/Christa didn't actually help Lee out.
And I thought Clem & Kenny's relationship in the first two episodes they had together in Season 2 was believable enough. They had a mutual friend in Lee, were glad to see each other after having written them off for dead, and Kenny was eager to create a new family again. In Episodes 4 and 5, Jane and Bonnie both assume that Clem was close to Kenny and coerce her into becoming his moral support - a heavy emotional burden for a kid who might not have liked Kenny himself that much to begin with.
But by the time she ends up at the rest-stop, Jane pretending to have killed a baby and Kenny once again reverting back into violence turned her off completely.
ok
It feels to me you're just really anti-Kenny. You're making him out as though he's a horrible man. He took that beating for Clem, not because he was selfish, because he wanted to protect a little girl from being beat up by a horrible man.
Every choice they made at Carvers was a risk and everyone had their role to play for the plan, when the plan failed Kenny took responsibility and took the punishment for it.
You're not helping your own points much by constantly praising Jane too, each of these characters has their flaws, that's why you are forced to watch one of them die in the end. In this world no ones is perfect, Jane kept pushing Kenny to his limit just to prove her point and Kenny let his aggression get the better of him.