What's your theory about the ending of Monkey Island 2 - LeChuck's Revenge?

Here is mine (obviously full of spoilers about the game):



I think that all anachronisms like cereal boxes, Grog machines, etc are there just for fun as well as the fourth wall breaking stuff like "pirates talked like that" and the Lucasarts phone in the jungle. An amusement park is perfectly normal in a world like this.

My theory is that Big Whoop is a portal. Maybe it travels to different times. Maybe Guybrush went back in time to when he was in his childhood and his parents were alive. That's why his parents wear pirate clothes. Big Whoop is like a time machine.

Maybe LeChuck is really his older brother which went bad when Guybrush was just a baby and left just to become a pirate. His parents never told the truth to Guybrush.

Le Chuck's plan in to go back using the Big Whoop and kill Guybrush while he is a child. After that maybe prevent himself from dying?

Just my theory. I don't believe that "all is a dream" rubbish. It would simply suck in something as brilliant as Monkey Island.

Guybrush and Lechuck are brothers. Le Chuck cast a spell on Guybrush to confuse him. Big Whoop creates a portal to another time when Guybrush was a kid.
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Comments

  • edited July 2009
    My theory is that it was done for the lulz.
  • edited July 2009
    My theory is the explanation at the end of CMI, because it's canon and accepted in the game's storyline. What Ron would have or wouldn't have done isn't relevant until if and when he makes his game.
  • edited July 2009
    tmesis wrote: »
    My theory is that it was done for the lulz.

    Finally!
  • edited July 2009
    they all die in the end :eek:
  • edited July 2009
    the theory by the op kind of makes sense. i remember a line from the voodoo lady that never makes sense with all the theorys about big whoop being some kind of curse by lechuck. She says something like "find big whoop and you can be rid of lechuck forever" so maybe guybrush had to go back in time with big whoop and kill lechuck before he became a ghost or something!
  • edited July 2009
    Young Guybrush gets lost in a theme park, and his imagination runs wild. After a ride on Pirates of the Caribbean, he starts his own journey to become a Mighty Pirate. Distressed, his parents send his brother Chucky to find their missing son. In Guybrush's mind, Chucky became the evil pirate LeChuck, determined to destroy him. Elements of the real world seep into Guybrush's (vending machines, telephones etc.) , but it's not until their final confrontation, in the maintenance tunnels linking the different areas of the park, does Guybrush get the wake-up call he really needs.... that he's got a contract with LucasArts, much like the Voodoo Lady, and they'll have to rethink all of this to make 3 more sequels! :p
  • edited July 2009
    Common theory is that the amusement park is a curse LeChuck have put on Guybrush, and that it isn't real. But I have a theory that it's the amusement park world that's real, and that there's some magic in the real world that takes the two boys to the world of Monkey Island. Maybe a portal to a parallel dimention or something. Chuckie finds Big Whoop which gives him powers that still remains with him when the boys return to our world, which explains the glowing eyes. Or something. I like the idea of two boys just playing, but I just think there's a little more to it than that.

    Or maybe LeChuck just put a curse on Guybrush in the end of the game to get out of a difficult situation.
  • edited July 2009
    Guybrush can't really be a little boy, because his dialogues and objectives are quite mature for a little kid.
  • edited July 2009
    Or maybe... You know when LeChuck was going to stab the voodoo doll, he was going to send Guybrush to an alternative dimention of eternal pain and suffering, but instead Guybrush just got sent to the next room? Maybe he did get sent to the alternative dimention, he just don't think so, and everything after the first stab is not a part of the "regular" dimention, but the dimention of suffering. Guybrush trapped in a modern age world, knowing he is a pirate, even though everyone else thinks he's just a little boy, with his evil voodoo big brother Chuckie to torture him some more when his parents aren't watching (Guybrush can tell his parents about Chuckie's voodoo powers all he wants, his parents will just think he's fantasizing). It got to be like hell for Guybrush...

    If this is the case, LeChuck doesn't need to be Guybrush's brother, since the parent skeletons is just a part of the messed up alternative dimention.
  • edited July 2009
    I think Guybrush is in the matrix the whole time.
  • edited July 2009
    I like the theory that everything was an illusion, because if it wasn't then Curse, Escape and Tales wouldn't exist.
  • edited July 2009
    I like the theory that everything was an illusion, because if it wasn't then Curse, Escape and Tales wouldn't exist.

    Hey, what do you have against Curse and especially Tales? Would you like more if there were no more Monkey Island games? :-S
  • edited July 2009
    My theory is that it was an illusion. Once you crash into the tunnels, you HAVE to turn on the light, you HAVE to pick up the E-Ticket, in an odd way, these seems like little traps to guide Guybrush into doing things exactly as LeChuck planned. As for the faulty VooDoo doll, surely LeChuck of all people (remember, this is MI2 LeChuck, Scary, Evil, so on) would just throw the doll away after it didn't work and then proceed to rip Guybrush to shreads. Instead we're forced to create this Voodoo where this tunnel mysteriouslly has all the items we need, including the skeletons of our Dead Parents, etc. It's like LeChuck is testing Guybrush to see if he'll go through with it, when he finds out he does, he then throws the illusion into Full Throttle (hehe) to try and trap Guybrush at Big Whoop, hoping that it would last, whilst he goes after Elaine.

    Of course, Guybrush being smart breaks the curse, comes back to reality and escapes from Big Whoop to drift off to Plunder Island and so the adventure continues.
  • edited July 2009
    Or maybe... You know when LeChuck was going to stab the voodoo doll, he was going to send Guybrush to an alternative dimention of eternal pain and suffering, but instead Guybrush just got sent to the next room? Maybe he did get sent to the alternative dimention, he just don't think so, and everything after the first stab is not a part of the "regular" dimention, but the dimention of suffering. Guybrush trapped in a modern age world, knowing he is a pirate, even though everyone else thinks he's just a little boy, with his evil voodoo big brother Chuckie to torture him some more when his parents aren't watching (Guybrush can tell his parents about Chuckie's voodoo powers all he wants, his parents will just think he's fantasizing). It got to be like hell for Guybrush...

    If this is the case, LeChuck doesn't need to be Guybrush's brother, since the parent skeletons is just a part of the messed up alternative dimention.

    So guybrush basically ends up in another dimension -ours.
    Hmm.
    What if this famous "ron gilbert approved MI3" was actually supposed to be set in the present world :eek: ?
  • edited July 2009
    Nah, I don't think Guybrush ends up in our dimention. Because after the first stab, he's still in a world with a zombie with a voodoo doll, and Chuckie's eyes still glow in the end. I'm thinking more in the direction of a dimention that isn't bound by the laws of nature, where the world turns out to be the way it is because Guybrush doesn't want it to be so. If another person got sent to the same dimention, he would probably experience a whole other world than Guybrush.

    Ash735: I liked the theory of the whole underground tunnels-thing being a trap, where everything is put there because LeChuck wants you to do it. Probably some kind of illusion. The question is what kind of illusion, and where it starts.
  • edited July 2009
    pilouuuu wrote: »
    Hey, what do you have against Curse and especially Tales? Would you like more if there were no more Monkey Island games? :-S

    Just saying that Curse and everything beyond Curse revolves around Guybrush being brainwashed into thinking he was a child. If it was all just in his head, which is what it seems like it was going to be if Ron worked on Monkey Island 3, then we wouldn't HAVE Curse, Escape and especially Tales. Essentially the entire franchise as we know and love it wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't be here talking about what happened at the end of LeChuck's Revenge.
  • edited July 2009
    Pfft, Big Whoop is a gateway to Heck. It's a tear in the middle of the Carribean, sort of a Bermuda Triangle. Unfortunatly, a thing like that leaks a little from different times and dimentions, so we get some strange stuff here and there. The Voodoo Lady probably knows and so does LeChuck I guess. Whatever happened in the end of LCR? LeChuck used the power of Big Whoop to mess with Guybrush somehow. It doesn't matter, sinse Guybrush does snap out of it eventually.
  • edited July 2009
    Look,

    Its obvious it wasnt all in Guybrush's imagination, you see Chuckies eyes at the end, this is telling you that Chuckie is not just a kid, also there would be no reason to add the clip of Elaine at the end if it didn't have any meaning and also saying it was all a kids imagination, is a cheat ending its just like saying it was all a dream which is a big no no in writting.
  • edited July 2009
    prizna wrote: »
    Look,

    Its obvious it wasnt all in Guybrush's imagination, you see Chuckies eyes at the end, this is telling you that Chuckie is not just a kid, also there would be no reason to add the clip of Elaine at the end if it didn't have any meaning and also saying it was all a kids imagination, is a cheat ending its just like saying it was all a dream which is a big no no in writting.

    Yes, Ron Gilbert must clarify it all someday. But I'm pretty sure the "all was a dream" would be complete rubbish. I place my bets at the "spell" that Elaine mentions and something about the Big Whoop.
  • edited July 2009
    pilouuuu wrote: »
    Yes, Ron Gilbert must clarify it all someday. But I'm pretty sure the "all was a dream" would be complete rubbish. I place my bets at the "spell" that Elaine mentions and something about the Big Whoop.

    Thats just what i meant it would be stupid to end on "it was all a dream" kind of ending. I think it was a spell.
  • edited July 2009
    CaptnDan wrote: »
    Young Guybrush gets lost in a theme park, and his imagination runs wild. After a ride on Pirates of the Caribbean, he starts his own journey to become a Mighty Pirate. Distressed, his parents send his brother Chucky to find their missing son. In Guybrush's mind, Chucky became the evil pirate LeChuck, determined to destroy him. Elements of the real world seep into Guybrush's (vending machines, telephones etc.) , but it's not until their final confrontation, in the maintenance tunnels linking the different areas of the park, does Guybrush get the wake-up call he really needs....

    I believe this is the secret. it makes perfect sense going through the entire first two games even from the opening seconds. guybrush just walks in from nowhere...from where? he's a boy who just wandered off of POTC. you even hear the sword fighting pirates on the trail straight up tell you: "it's pirate speak! it's how they talked back then. c'mon guybrush play along!" the staff only door, the maintenance tunnels, all the novelty items, signs and t-shirts, the way he talks, grog machine from MI1 down in storage in MI2, the health clinic, it's all obviously amusement park stuff going through his imagination. i think it's a beautiful plot line in that it totally changes the tone of the first game too, and doesn't ruin the tale at all. it's like the end of 6th sense or something. you realize what you thought were just silly anachronisms were actually reality. simply brilliant.

    though the idea that it's a curse or time machine works well to allow for sequels, but i'm not sure that is real canon. it could be, but it can't be that simple, for all of the evidence listed above. i hope ron gilbert clears it all up one day and makes the true MI3. i fear that it's just too screwed up now for that to happen.
  • edited July 2009
    RockNRoll wrote: »
    I believe this is the secret. it makes perfect sense going through the entire first two games even from the opening seconds. guybrush just walks in from nowhere...from where? he's a boy who just wandered off of POTC. you even hear the sword fighting pirates on the trail straight up tell you: "it's pirate speak! it's how they talked back then. c'mon guybrush play along!" the staff only door, the maintenance tunnels, all the novelty items, signs and t-shirts, the way he talks, grog machine from MI1 down in storage in MI2, the health clinic, it's all obviously amusement park stuff going through his imagination. i think it's a beautiful plot line in that it totally changes the tone of the first game too, and doesn't ruin the tale at all. it's like the end of 6th sense or something. you realize what you thought were just silly anachronisms were actually reality. simply brilliant.

    though the idea that it's a curse or time machine works well to allow for sequels, but i'm not sure that is real canon. it could be, but it can't be that simple, for all of the evidence listed above. i hope ron gilbert clears it all up one day and makes the true MI3. i fear that it's just too screwed up now for that to happen.

    If you belive its his imagination, what is your explination for chuckies eyes glowing, Elaine at the end of the game and the fact that he is not a kid in Curse of Monkey island.
  • edited July 2009
    prizna wrote: »
    If you belive its his imagination, what is your explination for chuckies eyes glowing, Elaine at the end of the game and the fact that he is not a kid in Curse of Monkey island.
    Curse doesn't count, at least in this discussion. Whatever the ending was INTENDED to mean, it wasn't communicated to those stuck with explaining it away in Curse.

    Why did his eyes glow? It could be anything. For example, being a throw-away "Haha, the evil brother has won" and Guybrush's imagination lingering one more time.

    Elaine's line could be interpreted many ways as well. The curse simply being "having to go home and leave his magical fantasy world".

    I don't know what the intended meaning is, but I don't think that the whole amusement park idea was to be tossed away. I'm sure that the park was at least SOMEWHAT real. I think a lot of people balk at the idea that Guybrush could possibly be a kid because it "ruins" their interpretation of the character and his world. And I think some people attach to the world and don't feel like being dragged back to a boring reality along with their favorite oddly-named pirate.
  • edited July 2009
    PariahKing wrote: »
    My theory is the explanation at the end of CMI, because it's canon and accepted in the game's storyline. What Ron would have or wouldn't have done isn't relevant until if and when he makes his game.

    PK, I agree with you completely, as usual.
  • edited July 2009
    prizna wrote: »
    If you belive its his imagination, what is your explination for chuckies eyes glowing, Elaine at the end of the game and the fact that he is not a kid in Curse of Monkey island.

    Maybe just to mess with the viewer and definitely to leave things open to a sequel. Maybe Elaine was a little girl like guybrush who was also wrapped up in the fantasy, and she's left still imagining. Maybe the Ron Gilbert-planned sequel involved Guybrush going back into dreamland to get her. Who knows? Whatever the case, I am almost totally convinced that the amusement park is true on at least some significant level and was intended from the start of the series. How else would everything and every anachronism going back to the first moments of MI1 fit so perfectly? It's way beyond coincidence. Now, Gilbert said that there was more to it, and that no one has completely solved it, so I'm sure there is more to it on some level.

    Oh one huge thing I forgot to mention: if you remember way back to the first game, talking to the voodoo lady before going to Monkey Island, she says something like "be careful! you will learn things about yourself and your world that will shake you to your core" but nothing like that ever really happened in MI1. It's obvious foreshadowing of the end of MI2, and fits perfectly with the fantasy idea. Whatever the case, there is definitely something going on with the pirate world that guybrush walks into, that's not what we assume at the beginning.
  • edited July 2009
    I know that the ending of LR could be taken so many different ways, but i believe that the glowing eyes and elaines line were there to tell you he is under some kind of spell. I just see it that if it was all in his imagination, it is kind of a cheat ending. This is just my opinion i know others may like this idea. I guess there is very little chance that we will ever find out what was actually meant to follow the ending of LR.
  • edited July 2009
    If you belive its his imagination, what is your explination for chuckies eyes glowing, Elaine at the end of the game and the fact that he is not a kid in Curse of Monkey island.

    Well, it could STILL be imagniation.
    Look at calvin and hobbes for instance, even when we see in the final panels what's actually going on, calvin is still in his world and convinced he's a T-Rex or whatever.
    Could very possibly be the same with guybrush, he's been disturbed in his fantasy, but somehow keeps thinking his brother is evil and that Elaine is waiting for him somewhere.
  • edited July 2009
    Well, it could STILL be imagniation.
    Look at calvin and hobbes for instance, even when we see in the final panels what's actually going on, calvin is still in his world and convinced he's a T-Rex or whatever.
    Could very possibly be the same with guybrush, he's been disturbed in his fantasy, but somehow keeps thinking his brother is evil and that Elaine is waiting for him somewhere.

    I just think, because Chuckie is actually breaking the forth wall by looking at the screen when his eyes glow, because he looked at the screen i see it as being intended for the gamer, guybrush didnt see chuckies eyes glow so i dont think it is him still imagining.
  • edited July 2009
    I just think, because Chuckie is actually breaking the forth wall by looking at the screen when his eyes glow, because he looked at the screen i see it as being intended for the gamer, guybrush didnt see chuckies eyes glow so i dont think it is him still imagining.

    Well i don't know it this theory is right or not, and i don't care so much, but still.
    Yeah, these are mostly nods to the player, but they can pretty well be there just to tell you that guybrush hasn't quite stopped daydreaming yet.
    After all, the player is supposed to kind of "be" guybrush when playing the game. So it could still be a way to tell you there's still stuff going on in his/your head.
  • edited July 2009
    Pale Man wrote: »
    PK, I agree with you completely, as usual.
    Thanks.

    Going on beyond that to even more contreversial waters you may not agree with, from my perspective, a MI3 by Ron Gilbert instead of Curse could've been a very bad thing. A lot of times when you see these secret riddled endings they don't live up to any happy, fulfilling or even logical conclusion. A bad resolution of the MI3 could've killed the series not only in terms of sequels but in terms of public opinion as well - it's legacy.

    The Matrix is a prime example of this. It's amazing Curse was able to tie up as many plot holes as it did and explain it in such a satisfying way.

    Curse is a stellar adventure game - one of the best if not the best of all time. It's not my favorite ever but I'm certainly glad it exists. Escape - for all the hate it gets - is a very good adventure game in a series filled with great titles. It gets a lot of hate but an excessive amount. So I'm glad Escape exists too. I've always gotten the sense that Ron's MI3 would've finished off the series for good with whatever his secret is.

    And then we have Tales. Tales has a lot of promise and is helping in the modern revival of adventure games considering all the interest in Monkey Island. Beyond that it's given excellent exposure to Telltale - I'm a customer who bought all their titles simply because I became aware of them due to Monkey Island. Hell, if Ron had made MI3? We may not have gotten a MI:SE years later, the same MI:SE which is selling so well now and is yet another important cog in the industry working to revitalize the genre.

    I say this as a LeChuck's Revenge fan. In fact it's my favorite adventure game ever made. But I wouldn't change things as they are to see Ron's intended third game. People act as if Ron was screwed over or never got his shot. People forget that Ron voluntarily left LucasArts of his own accord without making the third Monkey Island. In fact they even forget his original vision for Monkey Island was originally slated to be a more serious game but Dave and Tim worked so many jokes in that became what was. Ron is not God in my eyes, even though I do like and respect his work. But I don't deify the man nor accept the idea no one can make good Monkey Island games except him. I trust Chuck, Mike, Mark and Dave to make Tales. I'd trust Tim to do it.

    Everyone hates the idea of Monkey Island being all the dream of a little boy. That's the apparent and most logical ending to MI2 on the surface of things - but nobody seems to want to accept it as it seems so much of a let down. How do we know Ron's third Monkey Island game with his venerated secret isn't something like this - something as dissapointing or series killing?

    Beyond that how do we even know there even IS a secret and Ron isn't just pulling wool over our eyes, trying to get a third game made years later? The end of MI2 looks like it was deliberately done to make the "He's just a kid" theory look like the truth but apply wiggle room for a sequel later. It's apparently worked very well as people still talk about it today. For all we know Ron has spent the last ten years coming up with a secret. It's not a nice thing to say and I don't mean anything malicious by it, but you would have to be a fool in this world to assume the best of everybody always and none of us know Ron personally.

    Really we will probably never know the secret (if one exists) and even if we figured it out Ron would never tell us - he wouldn't tell us for nine years Monkey Island lay dead and seemingly gone forever. And Ron's game probably doesn't even fit within the established storyline - his complaint on the Elaine and Guybrush marriage could mean they're sister and brother which would turn Monkey Island into an incest fest. It'd have to take place in some weird alternate timeline or itself be revealed to be a dream sequence which would just be a convoluted and messy solution.

    If Ron got to make his Monkey Island game - a direct sequel or one that eliminates Curse, Escape and Tales as canon - I would be excited to play it but I would be afraid for the ramifications for the series. In any case fixating on a ending that got a canon resolution back in the nineties that we'll never be able to figure out seems silly to me. It's an interesting discussion point but at the same time it's kind of a pointless conversation.
  • edited July 2009
    Here's something else to theorize about;

    If there was to be a LeChuck's Revenge: Special Edition, do you think LucasArts would alter the ending to make it tie better with the story of Curse? Or would they alter it att all?
    It feels like the ending for LeChuck's Revenge is such a perfect little thing because it's existed for so long, and I dunno wether it would attract or scare off idiots att Lucas to try and fiddle with it. Yes, it's a very pessimistic way to look at a special edition of this fantastic game, but I just felt like putting it out there, for funsies.

    Also, as for my take of the ending I don't really care much about it. If anything I'll by the sulution presented in Curse, just because I love that game. You can kind of tell it's not the proper sulution seeing as it doesn't make sense with what the Voodoo Lady says in the first MI. BUT, when it all comes to the ending I think it is the question that is interesting, and not the answer. Sitting att places like this and theorizing is what makes the ending of MI2 so great, but to actually know what it means, I just think it would let a lot of people down.
  • edited July 2009
    Yeah Qwazin - the discussions would all end. The chase here is better than the catch. As for the voodoo lady she is proved to be fallible in Curse - "you will die" - so I think that's a DECENT explanation but it's not seamless. But a five game story over 20 years isn't going to be seamless.

    I can't see them changing anything in MI2:SE. At all. I expect to see maybe the monkey shaped more like a wrench and that's about it.
  • TeaTea
    edited July 2009
    You pretty much stole my theory, pilouuuu.
  • edited July 2009
    Does anyone think it would be a good idea for Ron Gilbert to make his intended 3rd game or do you think it would ruin the already made storyline too much, or would you just be happy for Ron Gilbert to tell what he originally intended?
  • edited July 2009
    If it's all imagination indeed... I finnaly know how guybrush could hold his breath for 10 minutes xD!
  • edited July 2009
    My original theory was that Guybrush was just a kid that had imagined all of this while running around in an amusement park.
    The half modern items scattered around in the MI world could support this.
    And who better to cast as your arch nemesis than your brother.
  • edited July 2009
    I think that Ron Gilbert just knowed that Monkey Island 2 would be the last saga's game that he would have done and

    he created an end for the saga.
    the two games adventure was a child's dream (or a child's game)that ha was playing in a amusement park with his

    brother in a attraction that called "Big Whoop", how we can see in the ending scene.

    It's undeniable that your hypothesis it's more fascinating but mine it's more likely.
  • edited July 2009
    I think that Ron Gilbert just knowed that Monkey Island 2 would be the last saga's game that he would have done and

    he created an end for the saga.
    the two games adventure was a child's dream (or a child's game)that ha was playing in a amusement park with his

    brother in a attraction that called "Big Whoop", how we can see in the ending scene.

    It's undeniable that your hypothesis it's more fascinating but mine it's more likely.

    Yours is not likely at all knowing that Ron has said multiple times that there were plans to make an MI3 in which he would reveal the secret of Monkey Island. Therefore, LeChuck's Revenge was not intended to be the last game.
  • edited July 2009
    PariahKing wrote: »
    As for the voodoo lady she is proved to be fallible in Curse - "you will die".

    Uhmm, that's not entirely true. You do have a death scene in Curse. That's what the Voodoo lady saw. Plus, you already know to take whatever the Voodoo Lady says with a grain of salt as she likes to lie and exaggerate the role she played in things (like killing LeChuck).

    Besides, the Voodoo Lady completely changes her stance on Big Whoop between 2 and 3.

    In the MI 2, Guybrush asks if there's any way he could escape LeChuck. She specifically tells Guybrush to continue looking for Big Whoop as it's a gateway to another world and that's the only way to escape him forever. In Curse, she yells at Guybrush and tells him he should have never gone looking for Big Whoop in the first place.

    I think it's more curiosity than anything else, that people still wonder about Gilbert's MI 3. I think Curse did a good job offering a logical explanation (they could have just ret-conned it or ignored it completely, but the didn't). Escape actually caused more plot-holes than MI 2 and Curse. I don't know if I'd like to see Gilbert's MI 3 actually made any more, but I would like to know how he planned to end the series.

    In fact, I still think that the MI series should end eventually, and one of the strengths of MI 1 and 2 was that Gilbert had an end in the back of his mind when making it. Sure there's in-references in the games now, but not on the level of connection between the first two games. Game series should always have an end in sight, and I think the longer MI goes on the worse for the series. As much as I love the series, it should have a last game someday, and when that is being made if any of Gilbert's original intentions are still possible in the game-world now set up they should try to incorporate them.
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