Jane did not want to kill Kenny from the beginning of the fight.
If you stay silent during the fight, she says:
Giving Kenny the option to leave. (Jane's dialogue is in orange, Kenny's is in green.) Notice that this dialogue is not determinate; she will say this in everyone's playthrough if you don't talk over her. (And not that it means much, but I feel the need to point out the gif you provided is indeed determinate dialogue, only occurring if you say, "Jane...back off!")
The one good thing I will say about the fight scene is that, in the beginning at least, the physical actions of Jane/Kenny was incredibly well choreographed, in that the intentions of each action by each character were very vague. Even if the set-up of hiding AJ is stupid as crap, if you break down every single swing or punch or kick, and look through at who's saying what, you can't really pin any action and blame it on either character with any certainty saying, "Oh, he's trying to kill her here!" or "Oh, she's trying to kill him here!" as both Kenny says, "I'm going to fucking kill you!" several times and Jane says, "It's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery," and you could argue aggressive actions from either side are in self-defense or are on the offensive. It all depends on how you look at it, on which character you think is in the right and which is in the wrong. So TT did do a good job in making that controversy strong enough to spark months of debate on these forums.
Jane thought Kenny would be the death of all of them--with his stupid plan to find Wellington with no known location, in the winter, with a baby--if she didn't do something. So she planned to force Kenny to leave the group, by baiting Kenny with a stupid-ass plan to hide AJ, and Kenny took the bait. Jane offered to let him go and not kill him, but he refused. So then they both decided to fight to the death.
Yeah, only that in Kenny's world of thought the option to "Just go" is no option and she knew that. And there was no actual "group" anymore she wanted to protect. It was all about Clementine. If you constantly sided with Kenny throughout the dialogues with Jane it only makes all of this fight weirder and confirms my alien theory.
Jane did not want to kill Kenny from the beginning of the fight.
If you stay silent during the fight, she says:
Giving Kenny the o… moreption to leave. (Jane's dialogue is in orange, Kenny's is in green.) Notice that this dialogue is not determinate; she will say this in everyone's playthrough if you don't talk over her. (And not that it means much, but I feel the need to point out the gif you provided is indeed determinate dialogue, only occurring if you say, "Jane...back off!")
The one good thing I will say about the fight scene is that, in the beginning at least, the physical actions of Jane/Kenny was incredibly well choreographed, in that the intentions of each action by each character were very vague. Even if the set-up of hiding AJ is stupid as crap, if you break down every single swing or punch or kick, and look through at who's saying what, you can't really pin any action and blame it on either character with any certainty sayi… [view original content]
Even smart person can make a mistake,but the point is showing that Kenny already lost his mind has been proven true,and it's a foolish choice to stay with him any longer.
She did it only once, and how many times should she have done it? None.
Alright, sure kenny's made mistakes too, but he's never, he's never ever used a baby to drive any of his personal selfish agendas.(in fact he almost never sneakily drives his selfish agendas, he always shouts them out loud) On the contrary he pleads Clem and the baby be accepted into wellington in his ending. Kenny put the baby(and clem) above himself while Jane didn't.
She did it only once, and how many times should she have done it? None.
Alright, sure kenny's made mistakes too, but he's never, he's nev… moreer ever used a baby to drive any of his personal selfish agendas.(in fact he almost never sneakily drives his selfish agendas, he always shouts them out loud) On the contrary he pleads Clem and the baby be accepted into wellington in his ending. Kenny put the baby(and clem) above himself while Jane didn't.
Lol you haven't been inside of Wellington. You have no idea what it's like in there. Edith may have been nice, but she was just one person. Who's to say Wellington doesn't have other evils lurking within? They could have a system of slavery, like Carver's camp did. They could have a dictatorship system. You don't know what's in Wellington; I don't know; nobody knows. We won't know until season 3.
Plus in this case the sociopath and psychopath care about her, (it is possible for both) and for both it is a real obsession. Point is the sociopath has at least a lid on their emotions so I'd go with that too
No a sociopath isn't someone who would kill you, just manipulate, steal , lie, cheat their way to get whatever they want. Psychopath, well t… morehat is a whole new breed of animal.
As a eleven year old girl , she probably should have someone looking out for her. The world is a "dangerous" place.
But she didn't kill any of them. She didn't kill Sarah, she didn't kill AJ, she didn't kill her sister. Kenny is the only one who actually actively, without a doubt, killed someone! With Kenny with them, Jane thought the entire group would die looking for Wellington. With him gone, Jane thought they could all survive. In her mind, it was either four people (Kenny, Clem, AJ, and Jane) dead if she didn't do anything, or three people (hopefully four) alive if she did do something.
Leaving 2 girls and a baby to die is A-Ok as long as she wanted to kill Kenny?!?
Oh man that would've go swell in court nowadays
"Why … moredid you kill 3 civilians?"
"Um.. uh... to drive Kenny insane."
"...you're free to go."
since I'm a lil' sick I might have misunderstood that term...
k.
but Kenny still sucks tho. I feel bad on making a save where I go with him in the end. That reminds me, I should go delete that save.
… more
Wow a crazy man is worse than—
Yes. A million times yes.
Kenny is much worse than Jane for obvious reasons.
Her plan was stupid but not pointless. She wanted to keep them alive rather than have them all die looking for Wellington. She did not need to die; none of them needed to.
Tell me, did Kenny ever beat up Clem?
What does that have to do with anything? Kenny actually determinately accidentally hits Clem when he's beating up Arvo. If he can accidentally hit Clem in a fit of rage, and can accidentally kill someone in a fit of rage, then no, I don't trust him. Jane never hit Clem once, accidentally or not. Jane did save Clem from the lake though, at personal danger to herself. Does that count?
Kenny is not worse then Jane, She faked the baby's death to do what cause a fight where she has an equal chance of getting killed? Kenny lost his family and he just wants to protect AJ so that the thing that happened to his family doesn't happen to AJ. Yes, Kenny gets angry sometimes when he shouldn't, but come on Kenny has been through a lot more than everyone, except Clementine. Kenny is tired of things going the wrong way and all he wants to do is try to make it right. He said that he didn't raise duck very well and he was going to raise AJ very well.
k.
but Kenny still sucks tho. I feel bad on making a save where I go with him in the end. That reminds me, I should go delete that save.
… more
Wow a crazy man is worse than—
Yes. A million times yes.
Kenny is much worse than Jane for obvious reasons.
But she didn't kill any of them. She didn't kill Sarah, she didn't kill AJ, she didn't kill her sister. Kenny is the only one who actually a… morectively, without a doubt, killed someone! With Kenny with them, Jane thought the entire group would die looking for Wellington. With him gone, Jane thought they could all survive. In her mind, it was either four people (Kenny, Clem, AJ, and Jane) dead if she didn't do anything, or three people (hopefully four) alive if she did do something.
...And wait. What term did you misunderstand?
Kenny is not worse then Jane, She faked the baby's death to do what cause a fight where she has an equal chance of getting killed? Kenny los… moret his family and he just wants to protect AJ so that the thing that happened to his family doesn't happen to AJ. Yes, Kenny gets angry sometimes when he shouldn't, but come on Kenny has been through a lot more than everyone, except Clementine. Kenny is tired of things going the wrong way and all he wants to do is try to make it right. He said that he didn't raise duck very well and he was going to raise AJ very well.
A bit different if it results in death, don't ya think?
Tbh, they were both not thinking very clearly at all. Both were very unstable. The choice unfortunately came down to which type you prefer. Jane's fate was sealed for me when she said 'I knew you would'. Was considering saving her from Kenny, but that was just the confirmation that she knew exactly how Kenny would respond and she relied on her emotional manipulation of Clem to dig her out of the mess she got herself into. Someone who intentionally incites violence like that deserves whatever happens to them.
Kenny's not the sanest for sure, but his heart is undoubtedly in the right place, whereas Jane's sanity and genuine decency is all up in the air at that point. A more sympathetic character would have made a similar scenario a much harder decision cough Luke.
In what world do you live in which someone jumping down, trying to move a huge pile of rubble that sits on top of someone else, gives them directions, and then even still tries to move the rubble once their life is in direct danger is killing someone?
The logic some of you follow is astonishing.
Added on to that, her voting to leave Sarah was sensible at the time considering the circumstance they were in. Yet what's really funny is she's always the last out of the trailer no matter what choice Clementine makes. And that is the operative term here, Clementine makes the call.
Jane: "Clem, she clearly doesn't want to live, leave her be..."
Sarah yells for help under the magical rubble that she was standing on, later appeared on top of her.
And it creeped me out how she said that her sister wasn't a survivor type, so she left her to die, and tried to make Clem into one, like she wanted a replacement sister or somethin'.
Even smart person can make a mistake,but the point is showing that Kenny already lost his mind has been proven true,and it's a foolish choice to stay with him any longer.
Comments
Jane did not want to kill Kenny from the beginning of the fight.
If you stay silent during the fight, she says:
Giving Kenny the option to leave. (Jane's dialogue is in orange, Kenny's is in green.) Notice that this dialogue is not determinate; she will say this in everyone's playthrough if you don't talk over her. (And not that it means much, but I feel the need to point out the gif you provided is indeed determinate dialogue, only occurring if you say, "Jane...back off!")
The one good thing I will say about the fight scene is that, in the beginning at least, the physical actions of Jane/Kenny was incredibly well choreographed, in that the intentions of each action by each character were very vague. Even if the set-up of hiding AJ is stupid as crap, if you break down every single swing or punch or kick, and look through at who's saying what, you can't really pin any action and blame it on either character with any certainty saying, "Oh, he's trying to kill her here!" or "Oh, she's trying to kill him here!" as both Kenny says, "I'm going to fucking kill you!" several times and Jane says, "It's time to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery," and you could argue aggressive actions from either side are in self-defense or are on the offensive. It all depends on how you look at it, on which character you think is in the right and which is in the wrong. So TT did do a good job in making that controversy strong enough to spark months of debate on these forums.
Jane thought Kenny would be the death of all of them--with his stupid plan to find Wellington with no known location, in the winter, with a baby--if she didn't do something. So she planned to force Kenny to leave the group, by baiting Kenny with a stupid-ass plan to hide AJ, and Kenny took the bait. Jane offered to let him go and not kill him, but he refused. So then they both decided to fight to the death.
:edit: Which non-Kenny fans (and non-extreme Kenny fans, mind you) are denying anything?
Yeah, only that in Kenny's world of thought the option to "Just go" is no option and she knew that. And there was no actual "group" anymore she wanted to protect. It was all about Clementine. If you constantly sided with Kenny throughout the dialogues with Jane it only makes all of this fight weirder and confirms my alien theory.
And that so called foolish choice led us to wellington. Not the sad bottomless pits of hell everyone thinks staying with kenny would result in.
Only if you pick up the gun.
Wellington isn't all peachy either,it's packed full and the weather can be harsh there,to say the otherwise as hell is a wrong comparison.
It is to manipulate Kenny,she did it only once and never shown to be actively endanger AJ for the rest of the game.
Because it was the right thing to do. Jesus.
Yeah.....
Then why she said stay out of it? I did what she wanted me to do.
Still not the endless void of Satan's stomach everyone thinks Kenny the supposedy directionless psychopathic crazy maniac is leading us to.
She did it only once, and how many times should she have done it? None.
Alright, sure kenny's made mistakes too, but he's never, he's never ever used a baby to drive any of his personal selfish agendas.(in fact he almost never sneakily drives his selfish agendas, he always shouts them out loud) On the contrary he pleads Clem and the baby be accepted into wellington in his ending. Kenny put the baby(and clem) above himself while Jane didn't.
No. Instead the worst thing he's ever done is murder somebody over a lie. The worst thing Jane's ever done is tell that lie.
Y'all are forgetting the fact Jane left her sister and Sarah to die
Lol you haven't been inside of Wellington. You have no idea what it's like in there. Edith may have been nice, but she was just one person. Who's to say Wellington doesn't have other evils lurking within? They could have a system of slavery, like Carver's camp did. They could have a dictatorship system. You don't know what's in Wellington; I don't know; nobody knows. We won't know until season 3.
And a baby
Plus in this case the sociopath and psychopath care about her, (it is possible for both) and for both it is a real obsession. Point is the sociopath has at least a lid on their emotions so I'd go with that too
And Kenny...
The good far surpass the bad.
k.
but Kenny still sucks tho. I feel bad on making a save where I go with him in the end. That reminds me, I should go delete that save.
Yes. A million times yes.
Kenny is much worse than Jane for obvious reasons.
Leaving 2 girls and a baby to die is A-Ok as long as she wanted to kill Kenny?!?
Oh man that would've go swell in court nowadays
"Why did you kill 3 civilians?"
"Um.. uh... to drive Kenny insane."
"...you're free to go."
since I'm a lil' sick I might have misunderstood that term...
Silly me, I thought we got over it.
Me too.
Somethings just never die.
But rises again, harder and stronger. Unfortunately.
But she didn't kill any of them. She didn't kill Sarah, she didn't kill AJ, she didn't kill her sister. Kenny is the only one who actually actively, without a doubt, killed someone! With Kenny with them, Jane thought the entire group would die looking for Wellington. With him gone, Jane thought they could all survive. In her mind, it was either four people (Kenny, Clem, AJ, and Jane) dead if she didn't do anything, or three people (hopefully four) alive if she did do something.
...And wait. What term did you misunderstand?
I have such a dirty mind.
NO. Jane is the one who is crazy. Jane's plan was stupid and pointless. She needed to die. Tell me, did Kenny ever beat up Clem?
kenny is worse than Jane.
Her plan was stupid but not pointless. She wanted to keep them alive rather than have them all die looking for Wellington. She did not need to die; none of them needed to.
What does that have to do with anything? Kenny actually determinately accidentally hits Clem when he's beating up Arvo. If he can accidentally hit Clem in a fit of rage, and can accidentally kill someone in a fit of rage, then no, I don't trust him. Jane never hit Clem once, accidentally or not. Jane did save Clem from the lake though, at personal danger to herself. Does that count?
Kenny is not worse then Jane, She faked the baby's death to do what cause a fight where she has an equal chance of getting killed? Kenny lost his family and he just wants to protect AJ so that the thing that happened to his family doesn't happen to AJ. Yes, Kenny gets angry sometimes when he shouldn't, but come on Kenny has been through a lot more than everyone, except Clementine. Kenny is tired of things going the wrong way and all he wants to do is try to make it right. He said that he didn't raise duck very well and he was going to raise AJ very well.
I'll never forget that. I killed Jane because she caused Sarah's death
It's still Jane's fault for Sarah to die.
[removed]
You make some good points, but
No. He said he didn't trust himself anymore to raise AJ and Clem. If you choose to go with Kenny, it's against Kenny's judgment for you to come.
I lol'd.
A bit different if it results in death, don't ya think?
Tbh, they were both not thinking very clearly at all. Both were very unstable. The choice unfortunately came down to which type you prefer. Jane's fate was sealed for me when she said 'I knew you would'. Was considering saving her from Kenny, but that was just the confirmation that she knew exactly how Kenny would respond and she relied on her emotional manipulation of Clem to dig her out of the mess she got herself into. Someone who intentionally incites violence like that deserves whatever happens to them.
Kenny's not the sanest for sure, but his heart is undoubtedly in the right place, whereas Jane's sanity and genuine decency is all up in the air at that point. A more sympathetic character would have made a similar scenario a much harder decision cough Luke.
In what world do you live in which someone jumping down, trying to move a huge pile of rubble that sits on top of someone else, gives them directions, and then even still tries to move the rubble once their life is in direct danger is killing someone?
The logic some of you follow is astonishing.
Added on to that, her voting to leave Sarah was sensible at the time considering the circumstance they were in. Yet what's really funny is she's always the last out of the trailer no matter what choice Clementine makes. And that is the operative term here, Clementine makes the call.
How so? She tried to help.
It's more like...
Jane: "Clem, she clearly doesn't want to live, leave her be..."
Sarah yells for help under the magical rubble that she was standing on, later appeared on top of her.
And it creeped me out how she said that her sister wasn't a survivor type, so she left her to die, and tried to make Clem into one, like she wanted a replacement sister or somethin'.
So that Clem aka The Player can get away from Kenny and Jane's terribly written conflict
Both of our profile pictures would not get along very well... haha.