it isn't jane's fault, it is arvo's, unless you believe that his group decided to risk all their lives for a gun that they clearly don't need. when you confront arvo in the tower (the first time) he says that he is hiding the supplies from his group, the logical conclusion is that he went ahead and hid those supplies like he was going to do, then blamed it on you. it is possible that the ambush was due to the gun (though unlikely), but all things considered it was a good decision (he was way too skittish with it). given how the writing turned out it would have made sense for jane to have stolen the supplies despite your protests (the ambush is based on you deciding to steal it, and you can't call him out on his accusation during the ambush, despite the dialog right before it). it is a writing snafu, it happens. jane is at best only mildly responsible for the ambush (unless she hunted down arvo after the fact and stole the medicine from him).
She feels guilty about killing someone who had never wronged her not about saving the group, more so how she saved the group. Also, I don't … moresee why everyone suggests the ambush is Jane's fault when it happens regardless of all events prior, they ambush whether you stole from Arvo or not and regardless of how soon you leave.
i think the real question is why have the baby survive when they get to whichever they were going to? the fight was 4 days after birth, with no food for it (babies have trouble digesting most food), and then 9 days after that you arrive to whichever location you chose. 13 days with no food and in the snow tends to result in dead babies, though it is slightly possible for him to have survived, assuming mom ate well in regards to the pre-apocalypse (the story really put a different tone on that issue though).
Or perhaps the situation never presented itself? All we know is that Jaime is really the only person she cared about before meeting the group. If you blame Jane for the ambush because she stole Arvo's gun, you could go farther by blaming Arvo for coming to the Observation Deck with a bag of medicine.
The ambush happens regardless b/c no matter what Jane robs Arvo no matter what--she steals Arvo's gun. Most people wouldn't feel guilty abou… moret saving their friends if someone was holding them at gun point. I think the fact that she says she's never killed anyone that hadn't personally wronged her show that she's never tried to save anyone. Most people take it personally when someone wrongs people(s) they care about.
I sort of agree. I like Jane but they could've used Molly for the same role because she's already established loner who lost her sis and is a survivalist, already bonded with Clem somewhat etc.
The biggest problem with S2 was the lack of compelling background on new characters.
I totally agree with this, but Jane was not the case. She talks a lot about her past experiences during the 2 episodes where she was a prominent character (The group near DC, her sister's demise, getting her stomach pumped because she ate glass o.o).
Like I said, basically the reason I like Kenny is because he is actually in your corner. If you show him loyalty, he has your back, and he won't run off on you, unlike ones like Lilly for example.
I was really stuck on which one I should chose, but I ended up choosing Jane. Kenny just seemed too far gone to me with his anger. He wasn't the Kenny from season 1. I also felt that I could trust Jane because she told me her back story, which had included her sister. I felt that I could not completely trust Kenny that much anymore and his actions in the future could have provided many consequences. I also chose to bring in the people. I felt it was best because they could help out and if you sent them back out they could die or come back and hurt you. Obviously from the show, it is proven that not all people can be trusted, but it was only three people who could have been easily dealt with if they try anything. I can't wait to see where my decision takes me in season 3.
I just finished this game a few days ago and then decided to research a few things about the endings and how they will affect future installments. I happened to stumble upon this thread and others but this one really stood out to me mainly due to to the civil exchange of opinions by romybarboza77 and sialark who both provided remarkably detailed analyses on the two characters of Kenny and Jane. Nevertheless, as compelling as sialark's arguments were, I just was not convinced. Now before I continue I completely admit that my opinion is no better than anyone else's and no one is under obligation to care what I think.
Now the first thing I would like to point out that I feel was missing in those analyses (it may have been covered elsewhere so forgive me, but I just didn't have the time to read through 17 complete pages) is that the game itself seemed to want you to go with Kenny. I say this because if you did nothing the game would choose Kenny for you. Yet when at Wellington you HAD to make the choice of whether to go into Wellington or stay with Kenny. In my opinion it might have been better had the player been forced to make the choice between Kenny or Jane. I myself, initially chose not to shoot Kenny the first time as I just couldn't bring myself to do so. I even stopped the game to walk outside for a few minutes before coming back in to complete it. (Strange how a mere game where you play an 11 year old girl can do that to you. Or me, rather.)
Also missing is given the choice to shoot Kenny after he kills Jane. That to me seemed a bit pointless particularly with Kenny's dialogue:
"oh, do it. Just do it!"
I felt a more poignant exiting dialogue from Kenny was warranted particularly if the choice of making a true murderer out of Clementine was given the player. Now her innocence would be completely lost and the rules of self defense presented by sialark are now moot. In all scenarios Kenny seemed rather repentant for his actions and bad decisions yet this redeeming quality was completely absent with this given choice.
Concerning the above, I did not like that the player was not given the same choice to do to Jane.
Jane: I'm sorry.
SHOOT JANE
Clem: I'm not!
At least there would have been some type of fulfilling balance. Well, for me there would have been.
Now regarding Jane, I did somewhat change my opinion of her when I backtracked through EP 4. I actually despised how she kept attempting to convince Clem to leave Sarah behind. Yet while during the walker attack at the observation deck if the player lets the clock run out, Jane makes the decision to go save Sarah. So even with what we are led to believe about her, the developers at least gave her some inherent redeeming qualities that are not completely evident to the player.
Just my thoughts. I know it's been a couple of years but hopefully romybarboza77 and sialark are still around.
I know yours is an old comment, but I wanted to say—I truly hope that we can hear more about the DC group at the start of Season Three if we are at Howe's Hardware. I am interested in knowing how Jane, Jamie, an asshole, an old lady and a bunch of other people ended up surviving together.
The biggest problem with S2 was the lack of compelling background on new characters.
I totally agree with this, but Jane was not the… more case. She talks a lot about her past experiences during the 2 episodes where she was a prominent character (The group near DC, her sister's demise, getting her stomach pumped because she ate glass o.o).
The two are sending me creepy vibes, only supporting Clementine because she's the closest thing they have to replace their loved ones (with as small difference Kenny is looking for any child to replace Duck / any womanly woman to replace his wife while Jane only want Clem to replace her sister)
In my first play I've chosen Jane only because she looked less likely to get Clem killed (Kenny's tendancy to spread dissension in every group looking more dangerous than Jane's tendancy to stay away from groups, considering she's skilled enough not to need a big one). But had Clem have been 3-4 years older and without the baby to take care of, I'd have just made her abandon the two lunatics.
Ive noticed that too, TT TWD forums are definitely against kenny as a large majority but youtubes comments are much different, so I just stop with these kinds of arguments here, reminds me of the media
Ive noticed that too, TT TWD forums are definitely against kenny as a large majority but youtubes comments are much different, so I just stop with these kinds of arguments here, reminds me of the media
The comment section there has a large portion of people who are bigoted, and entitled to their opinion, in addition to being shallow when it comes to expressing their point of view. Our forum is fortunately far from what I've described earlier.
If we are talking about which to save; Kenny or Jane. I have to go with Jane. I liked Kenny in season 1, but season 2 he's more of a dick than before. I don't particularly like Jane, especially when I caught her with Luke. I personally wish the choice was between Luke and Kenny, so I could watch Kenny kill him. That guy was annoying.
Neither I nor Clem would be murdering anyone. Kenny would be doing it. Clem would just be watching like before, with the saint johns. So your point is moot.
It's not right to murder anyone or anything but ask yourself if it was a live or die moment? For survival? And no im not referring to any particular scene
If you're killing someone in order to survive it's not murder! Lol. Murder is when you kill someone out of pure evilness or killing someone without a strong reason to do so.
It's not right to murder anyone or anything but ask yourself if it was a live or die moment? For survival? And no im not referring to any particular scene
Murder is (…) killing someone without a strong reason to do so.
Agreed with this definition.
However, I am interested on knowing what you understand by evil. For me, it is when somebody causes any form of uneasiness to somebody else, with the sole intention of causing bad—I won't consider it evil if the person does it to feel good. I know, my understanding of it is wicked, but I'm not comfortable with the term evil being used as generally as it is today.
I substitute it for the concept of immorality, as you might have noticed in one of the hundreds of posts where I have mentioned it. LOL!
If you're killing someone in order to survive it's not murder! Lol. Murder is when you kill someone out of pure evilness or killing someone without a strong reason to do so.
I never gave it much thought to be honest... But I think I would include 'doing harm to another in order to feel good' in my defenition of it. I think it can be classified as both evil and immoral.
Murder is (…) killing someone without a strong reason to do so.
Agreed with this definition.
However, I am interested on knowing … morewhat you understand by evil. For me, it is when somebody causes any form of uneasiness to somebody else, with the sole intention of causing bad—I won't consider it evil if the person does it to feel good. I know, my understanding of it is wicked, but I'm not comfortable with the term evil being used as generally as it is today.
I substitute it for the concept of immorality, as you might have noticed in one of the hundreds of posts where I have mentioned it. LOL!
Blame Arvo for coming with a bag of medicine? No, Arvo would have no idea that anyone else was at the deck. Yes, one can ask the question "why would've Arvo fine there in the first place, " but that's really irrelevant; Jane made a conscious decision to rob Arvo if his gun and threaten him when they could'very said nothing or told him to get lost, but let him keep gotta weapon. Now if you could choose to not interact with Arvo (Jane included) then I would accept that the ambush was unrelated. When the Arvo first confronts the group he tells Clem that theven others are laughing b/c Arvo got robbed by a little girl. That's a dead give away that there's a casual relation b/there the robbery and the Ambush.
Now, I will agree that Clem was the first person besides Jaime that Jane really cared about, hence why she came back and ultimately saves everyone.
Or perhaps the situation never presented itself? All we know is that Jaime is really the only person she cared about before meeting the grou… morep. If you blame Jane for the ambush because she stole Arvo's gun, you could go farther by blaming Arvo for coming to the Observation Deck with a bag of medicine.
I don't recall Arvo every saying that he was hiding the supplies from his group. But regardless of his motives for hiding the medicine JANE STEALS ARVO'S GUN and then threatens to kill him. It doesn't matter if Clem's group needs Arvo's gun b/c Jane stealz it anyway. That's the reason for the ambush. Some things are a little vague, but that cause and effect is pretty clear.
it isn't jane's fault, it is arvo's, unless you believe that his group decided to risk all their lives for a gun that they clearly don't nee… mored. when you confront arvo in the tower (the first time) he says that he is hiding the supplies from his group, the logical conclusion is that he went ahead and hid those supplies like he was going to do, then blamed it on you. it is possible that the ambush was due to the gun (though unlikely), but all things considered it was a good decision (he was way too skittish with it). given how the writing turned out it would have made sense for jane to have stolen the supplies despite your protests (the ambush is based on you deciding to steal it, and you can't call him out on his accusation during the ambush, despite the dialog right before it). it is a writing snafu, it happens. jane is at best only mildly responsible for the ambush (unless she hunted down arvo after the fact and stole the medicine from him).
so I could watch Kenny kill him. That guy was annoying.
That moment when you read the comment while in a hurry so you click "like" before finishing, but near the end you stumble with a phrase that makes you dislike the comment.
If we are talking about which to save; Kenny or Jane. I have to go with Jane. I liked Kenny in season 1, but season 2 he's more of a dick th… morean before. I don't particularly like Jane, especially when I caught her with Luke. I personally wish the choice was between Luke and Kenny, so I could watch Kenny kill him. That guy was annoying.
Even though I like kenny more than jane i'd choose her over kenny. For one reason there was a particular thing he said.
"I don't trust myself to look after you anymore" or something similar to that. That made me worry and be concerned for clementine's safety and kenny's state of mind. And to me when you shoot kenny he seems contempt and happy. He's been through a lot and lost a lot so as a friend and someone you've known for some time I personally felt as though shooting him was not only the right thing to do but it was a service to him. That way he could be with kajaa and duck again and he wouldn't have to wait long to see them.
so I could watch Kenny kill him. That guy was annoying.
That moment when you read the comment while in a hurry so you click "like" before finishing, but near the end you stumble with a phrase that makes you dislike the comment.
I like the other two thirds of your comment though.
That rounds to an entire like rather than zero like.
Mind if I ask why you see death virtually every day?
Comments
it isn't jane's fault, it is arvo's, unless you believe that his group decided to risk all their lives for a gun that they clearly don't need. when you confront arvo in the tower (the first time) he says that he is hiding the supplies from his group, the logical conclusion is that he went ahead and hid those supplies like he was going to do, then blamed it on you. it is possible that the ambush was due to the gun (though unlikely), but all things considered it was a good decision (he was way too skittish with it). given how the writing turned out it would have made sense for jane to have stolen the supplies despite your protests (the ambush is based on you deciding to steal it, and you can't call him out on his accusation during the ambush, despite the dialog right before it). it is a writing snafu, it happens. jane is at best only mildly responsible for the ambush (unless she hunted down arvo after the fact and stole the medicine from him).
i think the real question is why have the baby survive when they get to whichever they were going to? the fight was 4 days after birth, with no food for it (babies have trouble digesting most food), and then 9 days after that you arrive to whichever location you chose. 13 days with no food and in the snow tends to result in dead babies, though it is slightly possible for him to have survived, assuming mom ate well in regards to the pre-apocalypse (the story really put a different tone on that issue though).
Or perhaps the situation never presented itself? All we know is that Jaime is really the only person she cared about before meeting the group. If you blame Jane for the ambush because she stole Arvo's gun, you could go farther by blaming Arvo for coming to the Observation Deck with a bag of medicine.
TBH, I would have wanted Clem and Sarah to be the last survivors in S2. Kenny and Jane are nothing but troublemakers. Nuff said.
TTG would have been better served if Jane had been Molly. The biggest problem with S2 was the lack of compelling background on new characters.
Why Molly?
I sort of agree. I like Jane but they could've used Molly for the same role because she's already established loner who lost her sis and is a survivalist, already bonded with Clem somewhat etc.
I totally agree with this, but Jane was not the case. She talks a lot about her past experiences during the 2 episodes where she was a prominent character (The group near DC, her sister's demise, getting her stomach pumped because she ate glass o.o).
Like I said, basically the reason I like Kenny is because he is actually in your corner. If you show him loyalty, he has your back, and he won't run off on you, unlike ones like Lilly for example.
I was really stuck on which one I should chose, but I ended up choosing Jane. Kenny just seemed too far gone to me with his anger. He wasn't the Kenny from season 1. I also felt that I could trust Jane because she told me her back story, which had included her sister. I felt that I could not completely trust Kenny that much anymore and his actions in the future could have provided many consequences. I also chose to bring in the people. I felt it was best because they could help out and if you sent them back out they could die or come back and hurt you. Obviously from the show, it is proven that not all people can be trusted, but it was only three people who could have been easily dealt with if they try anything. I can't wait to see where my decision takes me in season 3.
Hi all,
I just finished this game a few days ago and then decided to research a few things about the endings and how they will affect future installments. I happened to stumble upon this thread and others but this one really stood out to me mainly due to to the civil exchange of opinions by romybarboza77 and sialark who both provided remarkably detailed analyses on the two characters of Kenny and Jane. Nevertheless, as compelling as sialark's arguments were, I just was not convinced. Now before I continue I completely admit that my opinion is no better than anyone else's and no one is under obligation to care what I think.
Now the first thing I would like to point out that I feel was missing in those analyses (it may have been covered elsewhere so forgive me, but I just didn't have the time to read through 17 complete pages) is that the game itself seemed to want you to go with Kenny. I say this because if you did nothing the game would choose Kenny for you. Yet when at Wellington you HAD to make the choice of whether to go into Wellington or stay with Kenny. In my opinion it might have been better had the player been forced to make the choice between Kenny or Jane. I myself, initially chose not to shoot Kenny the first time as I just couldn't bring myself to do so. I even stopped the game to walk outside for a few minutes before coming back in to complete it. (Strange how a mere game where you play an 11 year old girl can do that to you. Or me, rather.)
Also missing is given the choice to shoot Kenny after he kills Jane. That to me seemed a bit pointless particularly with Kenny's dialogue:
"oh, do it. Just do it!"
I felt a more poignant exiting dialogue from Kenny was warranted particularly if the choice of making a true murderer out of Clementine was given the player. Now her innocence would be completely lost and the rules of self defense presented by sialark are now moot. In all scenarios Kenny seemed rather repentant for his actions and bad decisions yet this redeeming quality was completely absent with this given choice.
Concerning the above, I did not like that the player was not given the same choice to do to Jane.
Jane: I'm sorry.
SHOOT JANE
Clem: I'm not!
At least there would have been some type of fulfilling balance. Well, for me there would have been.
Now regarding Jane, I did somewhat change my opinion of her when I backtracked through EP 4. I actually despised how she kept attempting to convince Clem to leave Sarah behind. Yet while during the walker attack at the observation deck if the player lets the clock run out, Jane makes the decision to go save Sarah. So even with what we are led to believe about her, the developers at least gave her some inherent redeeming qualities that are not completely evident to the player.
Just my thoughts. I know it's been a couple of years but hopefully romybarboza77 and sialark are still around.
I know yours is an old comment, but I wanted to say—I truly hope that we can hear more about the DC group at the start of Season Three if we are at Howe's Hardware. I am interested in knowing how Jane, Jamie, an asshole, an old lady and a bunch of other people ended up surviving together.
Im part of the 1% that likes kenny
I like Kenny too.
@NorthStars
There are more people who like Kenny than you think, just not on these forums anymore sadly
The two are sending me creepy vibes, only supporting Clementine because she's the closest thing they have to replace their loved ones (with as small difference Kenny is looking for any child to replace Duck / any womanly woman to replace his wife while Jane only want Clem to replace her sister)
In my first play I've chosen Jane only because she looked less likely to get Clem killed (Kenny's tendancy to spread dissension in every group looking more dangerous than Jane's tendancy to stay away from groups, considering she's skilled enough not to need a big one). But had Clem have been 3-4 years older and without the baby to take care of, I'd have just made her abandon the two lunatics.
Kenny would totally be a Donald Trump supporter.
Ive noticed that too, TT TWD forums are definitely against kenny as a large majority but youtubes comments are much different, so I just stop with these kinds of arguments here, reminds me of the media
The YouTube comment section is coincidentially a sad place.
Why? Because a lot of people there like Kenny? Lol joke
and anywhere else on the internet including here is not?
No, I didn't say that.
The comment section there has a large portion of people who are bigoted, and entitled to their opinion, in addition to being shallow when it comes to expressing their point of view. Our forum is fortunately far from what I've described earlier.
If we are talking about which to save; Kenny or Jane. I have to go with Jane. I liked Kenny in season 1, but season 2 he's more of a dick than before. I don't particularly like Jane, especially when I caught her with Luke. I personally wish the choice was between Luke and Kenny, so I could watch Kenny kill him. That guy was annoying.
Because I don't like him, do I need more of a reason besides that?
Why?
Because you don't murder people just because you don't like them. That's unhuman and wrong.
Neither I nor Clem would be murdering anyone. Kenny would be doing it. Clem would just be watching like before, with the saint johns. So your point is moot.
Correction: S2 Kenny would. I'm not sure if S1 Kenny would, though.
Kinda feel like that would be flipped.
It's not right to murder anyone or anything but ask yourself if it was a live or die moment? For survival? And no im not referring to any particular scene
If you're killing someone in order to survive it's not murder! Lol. Murder is when you kill someone out of pure evilness or killing someone without a strong reason to do so.
Agreed with this definition.
However, I am interested on knowing what you understand by evil. For me, it is when somebody causes any form of uneasiness to somebody else, with the sole intention of causing bad—I won't consider it evil if the person does it to feel good. I know, my understanding of it is wicked, but I'm not comfortable with the term evil being used as generally as it is today.
I substitute it for the concept of immorality, as you might have noticed in one of the hundreds of posts where I have mentioned it. LOL!
I never gave it much thought to be honest... But I think I would include 'doing harm to another in order to feel good' in my defenition of it. I think it can be classified as both evil and immoral.
Blame Arvo for coming with a bag of medicine? No, Arvo would have no idea that anyone else was at the deck. Yes, one can ask the question "why would've Arvo fine there in the first place, " but that's really irrelevant; Jane made a conscious decision to rob Arvo if his gun and threaten him when they could'very said nothing or told him to get lost, but let him keep gotta weapon. Now if you could choose to not interact with Arvo (Jane included) then I would accept that the ambush was unrelated. When the Arvo first confronts the group he tells Clem that theven others are laughing b/c Arvo got robbed by a little girl. That's a dead give away that there's a casual relation b/there the robbery and the Ambush.
Now, I will agree that Clem was the first person besides Jaime that Jane really cared about, hence why she came back and ultimately saves everyone.
I don't recall Arvo every saying that he was hiding the supplies from his group. But regardless of his motives for hiding the medicine JANE STEALS ARVO'S GUN and then threatens to kill him. It doesn't matter if Clem's group needs Arvo's gun b/c Jane stealz it anyway. That's the reason for the ambush. Some things are a little vague, but that cause and effect is pretty clear.
That moment when you read the comment while in a hurry so you click "like" before finishing, but near the end you stumble with a phrase that makes you dislike the comment.
Even though I like kenny more than jane i'd choose her over kenny. For one reason there was a particular thing he said.
"I don't trust myself to look after you anymore" or something similar to that. That made me worry and be concerned for clementine's safety and kenny's state of mind. And to me when you shoot kenny he seems contempt and happy. He's been through a lot and lost a lot so as a friend and someone you've known for some time I personally felt as though shooting him was not only the right thing to do but it was a service to him. That way he could be with kajaa and duck again and he wouldn't have to wait long to see them.
Oh well. I see death basically every day. Videogame death is a joke, compared to it.
I like the other two thirds of your comment though.
That rounds to an entire like rather than zero like.
Mind if I ask why you see death virtually every day?
Paramedic.