Well that would certainly explain why everything happened so quickly on Friday in regards to everyone being fired. However, that's still rea… morelly bad management on Telltale's part because it seemed like they put all of their eggs into one basket, relying to heavily on this deal to go through in order to keep the company afloat. It seemed to be a last ditch attempt to try and save the company, hence the desperation to try and get the deal done, but ultimately didn't work.
Especially AMC, like I really dont get that. They just pull out on them while Walking Dead is being made, something they are closely related to, an IP they are heavily involved with, just being left undone?
I wanted to post this here because this sort of lays out the current lawsuit Telltale is facing, as this is important regarding the state of TFS:
While I am a business student, I must admit that stuff such as the WARN Act, which is what the Telltale employees are suing in regards to since it appears Telltale may have violated aspects of the law, is not exactly my area of expertise. But, I'll try to see if I got things right here.
What the former employees are saying here is that Telltale management violated the WARN Act, which can require harsh financial penalties if found guilty, including back pay and benefits for each violated day in accordance with both the federal version and the state of California's version of the law (as Telltale is located in California).
Under the federal WARN (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification) Act of 1988, companies with more than 100 employees are required to provide 60 days of advance notice before mass layoffs (so that would mean Telltale might be financially obligated to pay both backpay and benefits for 250+ employees for 60 days, plus interest). Mass layoffs would be considered, under the law, a termination of 50 or more employees within a 30 day period, if the total comprises of at least 1/3rd of the companies workforce, which would apply to Telltale since they fired 90% of their workforce. The law was passed thanks to a veto-proof Democratic majority of both houses of Congress, without President Ronald Reagan's signature. In a very Democratic-heavy state like California, laws of this nature are much stricter and harder for companies to challenge.
However, under the federal version of the law, there are noticeable exceptions that can be found which may benefit Telltale in their case. The most notable is what's known as the "unforeseeable business circumstances" clause. For a company to use this as a defense, they must prove that the layoffs were caused by factors that were not reasonably foreseeable (reasonable being a key term here which is frequently used in law, but is often very subjective in nature). With the recent revelation that the planned investments with AMC, Lionsgate, and Smilegate did not come to fruition as was expected, this could potentially be used as a legal defense by the company. As the layoffs came as a result of these deals not being made, it ultimately prompted Telltale to start immediately laying off staff to save money. However, disputes may be raised as to whether this could be seen as "reasonably foreseeable" and can be argued as reckless behavior by Telltale's management (as I said, they put all of their eggs in one basket, which was not a very smart move, so they may have some culpability that puts this out of the realm of not being reasonable). In my opinion, if a contract between the parties was reached and one of the investing parties suddenly pulled out of the agreement and withdrew their financial investment, Telltale would probably have a much stronger case here. But since that didn't happen and Telltale sort of jumped the gun in assuming the deals were set in stone, this could work against them.
However, let's say their defense works, that still does not put Telltale out of danger, because the lawsuit, while filed in federal court, also cites California's version of the law. As mentioned, California's laws regarding this matter are much more strict and far more favorable to employees and workers. One such difference between the federal version and California's version: there is no "unforeseeable business circumstances" clause under California law. Meaning that, even in situations where there is an unforeseeable cause that prompted mass layoffs, the company may still be held culpable for their actions and be forced to pay their employees for the full 60 days. So in this regard, Telltale is pretty much screwed. Richard Hoeg, an attorney, even said: "The fact that California did not bring over the pertinent exemption would seem to put [Telltale] in a precarious compliance position with the state.”
TL;DR: Telltale is probably fucked legally, even with the revelation of investment deals going south because of California's stricter laws regarding mass layoffs.
Gotta say this waiting is pretty damn excruciating, it's like waking up every day is a gamble in regards to good news about finishing the game. I hope they have an official answer soon and negotiations are successful with those partners. Really hope they do right by the fans and the series here.
Gotta say this waiting is pretty damn excruciating, it's like waking up every day is a gamble in regards to good news about finishing the ga… moreme. I hope they have an official answer soon and negotiations are successful with those partners. Really hope they do right by the fans and the series here.
Also, seems like the funding trouble was caused by two potential funders they were relying on backing out of talks the day before shutdown -… more AMC and Smilegate. That, along with Lionsgate pulling their funding led us to this. Looks like they didn't know they would have to close until just the day before, they thought talks were going well.
Link to Variety article: https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/amc-smilegate-telltale-closure-1202957632/
Especially AMC, like I really dont get that. They just pull out on them while Walking Dead is being made, something they are closely related to, an IP they are heavily involved with, just being left undone?
I wanted to post this here because this sort of lays out the current lawsuit Telltale is facing, as this is important regarding the state of… more TFS:
While I am a business student, I must admit that stuff such as the WARN Act, which is what the Telltale employees are suing in regards to since it appears Telltale may have violated aspects of the law, is not exactly my area of expertise. But, I'll try to see if I got things right here.
What the former employees are saying here is that Telltale management violated the WARN Act, which can require harsh financial penalties if found guilty, including back pay and benefits for each violated day in accordance with both the federal version and the state of California's version of the law (as Telltale is located in California).
Under the federal WARN (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification) Act of 1988, companies with more than 100 employees are required to provide 60 days of advance notice… [view original content]
Hmm, not exactly sure if this would completely absolve them, and the reason why I say that is because Telltale hasn't officially filed for bankruptcy yet. I imagine if they filed for bankruptcy immediately and fired everyone, it might be out of Telltale's hands, but filing it now might be seen as the company trying to get out of paying it's employees completely.
At this point, if Telltale were to file for bankruptcy, it would most likely be Chapter 7 bankruptcy, the complete liquidation of all of Telltale's assets. However, they wouldn't be able to do that until Minecraft is fully finished, as this would require that all of the business' operations be ceased. Certain creditors in the business would have to be paid first, depending on the level of risk they took in investing in the company. Less risk means they get paid first, while more risk moves them down the ladder. Secured creditors are the ones that usually have the least risk, so those would be first to get paid, while employee's are considered unsecured creditors. The company is still required to pay them for the hours worked if they close in the middle of a pay period, but after that is dependent on how much proceeds are left after the secured creditors have been fully paid off. However, it is highly unlikely that they would be fully compensated in a bankruptcy scenario.
Hmm, not exactly sure if this would completely absolve them, and the reason why I say that is because Telltale hasn't officially filed for b… moreankruptcy yet. I imagine if they filed for bankruptcy immediately and fired everyone, it might be out of Telltale's hands, but filing it now might be seen as the company trying to get out of paying it's employees completely.
At this point, if Telltale were to file for bankruptcy, it would most likely be Chapter 7 bankruptcy, the complete liquidation of all of Telltale's assets. However, they wouldn't be able to do that until Minecraft is fully finished, as this would require that all of the business' operations be ceased. Certain creditors in the business would have to be paid first, depending on the level of risk they took in investing in the company. Less risk means they get paid first, while more risk moves them down the ladder. Secured creditors are the ones that usually have the least risk, so tho… [view original content]
Since AMC&Lionsgate have both dropped out of talks and with the employee lawsuit against Telltale, that means TWD is cancelled permantely.
Its really unfortunate since this season has had some of the best content ever made by Telltale.
Since AMC&Lionsgate have both dropped out of talks and with the employee lawsuit against Telltale, that means TWD is cancelled permantely.
Its really unfortunate since this season has had some of the best content ever made by Telltale.
Some of the stuff TT do don't make a whole lick of sense, surely it would be best to keep it available as a one off episode so at least they got some money coming in?
TFS was took back from sales so people would not buy it. They're just not sure atm if they will be able to finish the game so they don't want to increase a number of people who will ask for refund if they officially announce the cancellation. Besides, people somehow keep forgeting that TFS, as of now, was withdrawn from sales TEMPORARILY.
I think they want to avoid selling what stands a good chance of being an incomplete game. Not everyone who might but it is going to be aware of the situation. It would be even worse for Telltale if it looked like they were deliberately selling an unfinished product.
I wanted to post this here because this sort of lays out the current lawsuit Telltale is facing, as this is important regarding the state of… more TFS:
While I am a business student, I must admit that stuff such as the WARN Act, which is what the Telltale employees are suing in regards to since it appears Telltale may have violated aspects of the law, is not exactly my area of expertise. But, I'll try to see if I got things right here.
What the former employees are saying here is that Telltale management violated the WARN Act, which can require harsh financial penalties if found guilty, including back pay and benefits for each violated day in accordance with both the federal version and the state of California's version of the law (as Telltale is located in California).
Under the federal WARN (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification) Act of 1988, companies with more than 100 employees are required to provide 60 days of advance notice… [view original content]
If Telltale can hand it over to another company, definitely. This lawsuit will take time to come to fruition, so it's still a possibility that we will see the conclusion, in some form, of TFS.
Good, then I hope the employees win. If it does affect us however, then I wish that they tried to sue later on. Hopefully we still get our episodes though.
If Telltale can hand it over to another company, definitely. This lawsuit will take time to come to fruition, so it's still a possibility that we will see the conclusion, in some form, of TFS.
Telltale does have a defense to this though, the act that the employees are saying was violated has some loop holes. The act says if a company goes out of business they need to give 60 days but if there was really no way in telling a shut down would happen, then the company is in the clear. In this case it seems Telltale wasnt expecting all its investors to just jump ship on the same day, so Telltale does have an argument. But its a bunch of legal back and forth Im sure theres endless counters to every argument.
Good, then I hope the employees win. If it does affect us however, then I wish that they tried to sue later on. Hopefully we still get our episodes though.
Comments
FWIW it is also removed from PS Store
My reaction to Telltale shutting down.
Thank you for updating in my absence @tumblingworlds
Agreed. Even if they were depending on this deal, it seems really unfair to the employees not to tell them how close they were to the edge.
Honestly shocked AMC backed out. Like what the fuck, they just cool with having Walking Dead be unfinished?
oof.
This meme just drives it home............ But at least it made me laugh.
Whoever was the one who backed out are a massive prick. How can they sleep well knowing they killed an entire company.
Especially AMC, like I really dont get that. They just pull out on them while Walking Dead is being made, something they are closely related to, an IP they are heavily involved with, just being left undone?
That's Ironic seeing that most people failed the bow and arrow part of episode 2, where clem can be practically on fire.
That scene was nightmare fuel
Also ironically, my Clem tells Lily that she would see her in hell.
A good summary video by YongYea:
I wanted to post this here because this sort of lays out the current lawsuit Telltale is facing, as this is important regarding the state of TFS:
While I am a business student, I must admit that stuff such as the WARN Act, which is what the Telltale employees are suing in regards to since it appears Telltale may have violated aspects of the law, is not exactly my area of expertise. But, I'll try to see if I got things right here.
What the former employees are saying here is that Telltale management violated the WARN Act, which can require harsh financial penalties if found guilty, including back pay and benefits for each violated day in accordance with both the federal version and the state of California's version of the law (as Telltale is located in California).
Under the federal WARN (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification) Act of 1988, companies with more than 100 employees are required to provide 60 days of advance notice before mass layoffs (so that would mean Telltale might be financially obligated to pay both backpay and benefits for 250+ employees for 60 days, plus interest). Mass layoffs would be considered, under the law, a termination of 50 or more employees within a 30 day period, if the total comprises of at least 1/3rd of the companies workforce, which would apply to Telltale since they fired 90% of their workforce. The law was passed thanks to a veto-proof Democratic majority of both houses of Congress, without President Ronald Reagan's signature. In a very Democratic-heavy state like California, laws of this nature are much stricter and harder for companies to challenge.
However, under the federal version of the law, there are noticeable exceptions that can be found which may benefit Telltale in their case. The most notable is what's known as the "unforeseeable business circumstances" clause. For a company to use this as a defense, they must prove that the layoffs were caused by factors that were not reasonably foreseeable (reasonable being a key term here which is frequently used in law, but is often very subjective in nature). With the recent revelation that the planned investments with AMC, Lionsgate, and Smilegate did not come to fruition as was expected, this could potentially be used as a legal defense by the company. As the layoffs came as a result of these deals not being made, it ultimately prompted Telltale to start immediately laying off staff to save money. However, disputes may be raised as to whether this could be seen as "reasonably foreseeable" and can be argued as reckless behavior by Telltale's management (as I said, they put all of their eggs in one basket, which was not a very smart move, so they may have some culpability that puts this out of the realm of not being reasonable). In my opinion, if a contract between the parties was reached and one of the investing parties suddenly pulled out of the agreement and withdrew their financial investment, Telltale would probably have a much stronger case here. But since that didn't happen and Telltale sort of jumped the gun in assuming the deals were set in stone, this could work against them.
However, let's say their defense works, that still does not put Telltale out of danger, because the lawsuit, while filed in federal court, also cites California's version of the law. As mentioned, California's laws regarding this matter are much more strict and far more favorable to employees and workers. One such difference between the federal version and California's version: there is no "unforeseeable business circumstances" clause under California law. Meaning that, even in situations where there is an unforeseeable cause that prompted mass layoffs, the company may still be held culpable for their actions and be forced to pay their employees for the full 60 days. So in this regard, Telltale is pretty much screwed. Richard Hoeg, an attorney, even said: "The fact that California did not bring over the pertinent exemption would seem to put [Telltale] in a precarious compliance position with the state.”
TL;DR: Telltale is probably fucked legally, even with the revelation of investment deals going south because of California's stricter laws regarding mass layoffs.
Gotta say this waiting is pretty damn excruciating, it's like waking up every day is a gamble in regards to good news about finishing the game. I hope they have an official answer soon and negotiations are successful with those partners. Really hope they do right by the fans and the series here.
ikr
It all makes sense. I'll stop being angry now. I take that back upper-mangemetn, it's not really your fault.
The people at AMC are just all about that money.
For them it doesn't matter if a Season (Show or Game) is good. What matters is viewers / sales.
Hey, no problem!
Will all this still count even if Telltale goes bankrupt?
Hmm, not exactly sure if this would completely absolve them, and the reason why I say that is because Telltale hasn't officially filed for bankruptcy yet. I imagine if they filed for bankruptcy immediately and fired everyone, it might be out of Telltale's hands, but filing it now might be seen as the company trying to get out of paying it's employees completely.
At this point, if Telltale were to file for bankruptcy, it would most likely be Chapter 7 bankruptcy, the complete liquidation of all of Telltale's assets. However, they wouldn't be able to do that until Minecraft is fully finished, as this would require that all of the business' operations be ceased. Certain creditors in the business would have to be paid first, depending on the level of risk they took in investing in the company. Less risk means they get paid first, while more risk moves them down the ladder. Secured creditors are the ones that usually have the least risk, so those would be first to get paid, while employee's are considered unsecured creditors. The company is still required to pay them for the hours worked if they close in the middle of a pay period, but after that is dependent on how much proceeds are left after the secured creditors have been fully paid off. However, it is highly unlikely that they would be fully compensated in a bankruptcy scenario.
I'm glad we have a financial lawyer on hand in this forum.
AMC are massive dickheads I was not surprised that they did such a move....they are money diggers and were such ages ago fuck em.
Oh I'm not, I may be saying stuff that is entirely wrong. This is just stuff I'm getting from Google searches.
I'm glad I stopped watching the show.
The wait will be long! That Telltale tells us once and for all if it's cancelled and that's enough!!
Since AMC&Lionsgate have both dropped out of talks and with the employee lawsuit against Telltale, that means TWD is cancelled permantely.
Its really unfortunate since this season has had some of the best content ever made by Telltale.
Just hold on a little while longer...
hold on for what? TFS isn't on sale anymore, it's over.
There wasn’t an official statement. The forums are still up. The older telltale games are still up.
TTG are in talks with other companies still, AMC and Loinsgate dropped out like a day before the layoffs.
Some of the stuff TT do don't make a whole lick of sense, surely it would be best to keep it available as a one off episode so at least they got some money coming in?
TFS was took back from sales so people would not buy it. They're just not sure atm if they will be able to finish the game so they don't want to increase a number of people who will ask for refund if they officially announce the cancellation. Besides, people somehow keep forgeting that TFS, as of now, was withdrawn from sales TEMPORARILY.
I think they want to avoid selling what stands a good chance of being an incomplete game. Not everyone who might but it is going to be aware of the situation. It would be even worse for Telltale if it looked like they were deliberately selling an unfinished product.
Imagine waiting for a month or two and then getting told that both episodes are cancelled.
GAAAH be optimistic.
You think the final season episodes will still come out? Should do considering other companies want to finish it, right?
If Telltale can hand it over to another company, definitely. This lawsuit will take time to come to fruition, so it's still a possibility that we will see the conclusion, in some form, of TFS.
Good, then I hope the employees win. If it does affect us however, then I wish that they tried to sue later on. Hopefully we still get our episodes though.
Telltale does have a defense to this though, the act that the employees are saying was violated has some loop holes. The act says if a company goes out of business they need to give 60 days but if there was really no way in telling a shut down would happen, then the company is in the clear. In this case it seems Telltale wasnt expecting all its investors to just jump ship on the same day, so Telltale does have an argument. But its a bunch of legal back and forth Im sure theres endless counters to every argument.