Harvey's voice actor did an incredible job in this episode. I want to protect Harvey so badly now. I don't care that he turns on us next episode, I know he's not really like that. I truly hope we have the chance to help him before it's too late.
The ending twist was...odd. At first I thought that it must be that Vicki was drugged to do this, but now I think it probably just is her. It would explain why the Children of Arkham leader's character model is so slender and there were hints earlier when I think about it.
I wonder if Oz knew that Vicki was going to drug Bruce and expected that attack. Part of me hopes that he didn't, because that could be a chance to maybe turn him around later on. If he realizes that he really is just a pawn. I hope we have the chance to change his trajectory at least a little. Or at least set the record straight. It bugs me that he seems to really believe Bruce is corrupt.
On that note, I'm really waiting for my opportunity to condemn what Thomas did. The "I'm not my father" choice in the press conference was good, but I want to expand on it.
All in all this was an amazing episode. I don't think I've ever been this hype for the next Telltale episode. This game is rapidly becoming one of my favorites from Telltale.
Seeing Bruce walk around in his underwear was the highlight of the episode, man clearly doesn't miss squat day. Although the plot twist at the end was a close second undoubtedly.
Best episode yet. Everything Selina related was my favorite part. Batman is currently at #4 on my favorite Telltale games behind TWD 2 (#3), Wolf (#2), and TWD 1 (#1).
I wonder if deciding to keep a platonic relationship in this episode will hinder a CatXBat relationship in future episodes? I just couldn't do that to Harvey. But because I know for sure that they're not together now, on the count of Harvey wanting to flay me alive even though nothing happened, I wonder will Bruce be stuck in the friend zone because of my decision in this episode.
Seeing Bruce walk around in his underwear was the highlight of the episode, man clearly doesn't miss squat day. Although the plot twist at the end was a close second undoubtedly.
Well, I remained on a platonic relationship with Selina on this ep. It's kinda hypocritical, batmans all against crime, but yet when a female criminal flirts with him, he suddenly is all lovey dovey with her. I wanna arrest catwoman.
Also, Harvey becomes TwoFace anyway? I saved him, so I'm pretty disappointed about how that choice turned out.
That ending was pretty good though, but I saw the vicki vale twist coming miles away, considering how much the leader person talked about the truth and all that.
Also, Harvey becomes TwoFace anyway? I saved him, so I'm pretty disappointed about how that choice turned out.
Not necessarily. If anything, the episode's pretty much implying that Two-face was always there; when you save him, he mentions how his therapist told him the drug would cause 'issues' to resurface. Ergo, the choice in episode 2 basically determines how much control Harvey still has over himself.
The choice wasn't so much preventing Two-face as it was suppressing him. He loses it in Selina's apartment either way, sure, but if you ask me, it makes sense in that situation. The episode implies that stress is the main trigger for Two-face; when Harvey feels threatened or overwhelmed, or when he's angry, Two-face comes out. Given that he just found out/believes he's being cheated on-- with his best friend, nonetheless-- I think it speaks for itself why he went ballistic.
Almost every other Harvey scene besides the one in Selina's apartment is different based on the episode 2 choice.
Well, I remained on a platonic relationship with Selina on this ep. It's kinda hypocritical, batmans all against crime, but yet when a femal… moree criminal flirts with him, he suddenly is all lovey dovey with her. I wanna arrest catwoman.
Also, Harvey becomes TwoFace anyway? I saved him, so I'm pretty disappointed about how that choice turned out.
That ending was pretty good though, but I saw the vicki vale twist coming miles away, considering how much the leader person talked about the truth and all that.
Yeah, their best episode so far? I agree. I did feel like it was a bit short, but maybe it's just because of the way I played it. I will say this is the first time I've ever quit out the game to redo a decision for TellTale during my first playthrough. That scene when Harvey comes knocking after sleeping with Selina? MAN, I was so mad. I cursed that cat out so bad lol. I really loved how they made Harvey more sympathetic without beating it over your head. I wish they had THIS Harvey in the previous episodes, so it would have made it harder to choose between him and Selina. I don't mean Harvey showing his mental issues, I'm referring to how he spoke with Bruce. In short, Harvey didn't seem like an idiot. I can't wait for the season to be over so I can replay it and see the other outcomes. I handled the situation with Regina and Oswald very passively because that's how I play Bruce to be. Just a rich punk that wants no trouble, most of the time, when it comes to certain people. So I bit my tongue except for when Oswald offered to tell me about the murder of my parents - though I did say pretty please lol. Anyway, I did the speech exactly how they wrote it. Finally, that goddamn ending. I never liked Vale, NEVER, any variation of her always annoyed me. So when she appeared again, I was annoyed then PISSED when she revealed herself. It's one of those things NO ONE saw coming, and I hope that was always the plan and not just put in for shock. Overall, it was a good episode. I hope TTG keeps it up and makes the next one even better.
i really liked it, tho these ep's are so short (also i got into the debug mod in a fight with my 360 controller and lagged realy hard in the batcave) but i liked it
I really enjoy how well they did Harvey in this game. He is a very sympathetic guy who have his flaws. You truly feel like Bruce and Harvey are friends, which makes how their friendship spiraling down all the more heartbreaking.
Next, I didn't like being forced into a corner about being with Selina. Harvey showed up, I exited the room (because I figured if I hid, I'd still get caught and it'd be even worse.) I had no options to really explain myself, and when the fight was over [glad you can miss the Finishing move this time around, btw.] I wanted to leave to set things straight, but no. Harvey said "I'm leaving!".
I agree with this, even though I chose to save Selina in EP.2. I didn't have Bruce sleep with her, knowing Harvey and her were still very much in a relationship. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of a possible relationship between Bruce and Selina. But I'm not the kind of person who would sleep with a friend's girlfriend, knowing she is still very much in a relationship with him; no matter how complicated it is. Harvey obviously had true feelings for Selina, even if she didn't for him.That being said, I didn't like that Bruce could not defend himself in that situation. He was accused of sleeping with her by default and couldn't explain that nothing happened.
Also I was wondering: did you offer Selina to stay in the mansion or let her leave town? Just curious.
Well, after just finishing the episode, I've gotta get all my thoughts and opinions out here before they die down or I forget. Ready? GO!
… more
* Really good episode with extremely difficult choices the whole way through (almost all of them had me stumped, staring at the screen).
* LOVE the direction Harvey is going even if he isn't scarred. He knows his personality is out of whack, and can't control himself. Now That is a cool Two-Face iteration.
* You can really start seeing the impact your choices are having here, (not that I had a problem with earlier series, it's about the story, not so much the choices) but here, there are A LOT of diversity in how you can handle the different situations. Who to go after? How to comfort Harvey? What to do with Penguin? Should you let Vicki record your conversation? Give in to Selina's seductive powers? Defy the (extremely-stupid-and-corrupt-though-I-can-kind-of-see-why-because-this-is-Gotham-City) Boar… [view original content]
Thank god they took their time to get this explained! it was one of my major "Wtf" 's from episode two. Hill ordering a hit because he had a change of heart? Yeah, sure! But seriously, I cannot appreciate this clarification enough. Thank you Telltale.
How was that explained? What did I miss? I didn't ask Oz in the end btw.
I loved this episode so much. These series are getting better and better. There's a lot to talk about.
Vicky Vale as Lady Arkham.
Ok, … moreso the first thing I have to say about this is... I CALLED IT xD! Plenty of her actions indicated that she was acting against Bruce:
* Most definitely being the one who recorded Bruce interacting with Carmine during the party with the endorsers. (And this is worse if you told her to keep it off the record.) Note that the camera focuses on her face looking interested in Bruce's response to Carmine.
* Being at the GCPD after Carmine died before any other reporter.
* Her using the data to frame Falcone also makes sense (since it's implied she was a victim of the undoings of Wayne, Hill and Falcone).
* Being The Gotham Gazette the journal that constantly appears trashing the Wayne name. (Especially after she said she would try to keep our name off the Gazette).
* Claiming the unexistense of hard proo… [view original content]
I told her to leave town. Figured if she stayed at Bruce's, Harvey would show up later, and seeing them living together would just make him snap. I think it's better if Catwoman stays away for now. (Though I think she'll stay in Gotham after hearing of Bruce's "outburst")
Next, I didn't like being forced into a corner about being with Selina. Harvey showed up, I exited the room (because I figured if I hid, I'd… more still get caught and it'd be even worse.) I had no options to really explain myself, and when the fight was over [glad you can miss the Finishing move this time around, btw.] I wanted to leave to set things straight, but no. Harvey said "I'm leaving!".
I agree with this, even though I chose to save Selina in EP.2. I didn't have Bruce sleep with her, knowing Harvey and her were still very much in a relationship. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of a possible relationship between Bruce and Selina. But I'm not the kind of person who would sleep with a friend's girlfriend, knowing she is still very much in a relationship with him; no matter how complicated it is. Harvey obviously had true feelings for Selina, even if she didn't for him.That being said, I didn't like that Bruce could not defend hims… [view original content]
But not in a bad way. I just...there's so MUCH to discuss
Namely, that I'll never see a bag of bagels and cream cheese the same way again. I really wanted Bruce to ask Alfred how to work a toaster.
I admit, I did not at all suspect Vicki, even though I kept her at arms length throughout my game. I guess because she was a reporter. But wow. Nicely done twist.
I was also not expecting to feel as bad as I did for Harvey. Admittedly, I wasn't a great friend in that I didn't rescue him first, and I didn't wait around to let Selina's cat let it out of the bag, so to speak. But after that scene, I kinda wished I'd saved him in Episode 2, as much as I carrot-three BatCat.
BATCAT. SO SWEET AND SEXY. I know I've said it before, but it ain't like Harvey isn't invited in my game. Even with the Other Guy dripping blood everywhere.
Haven't even gotten to Cobblepot's BS. My brain is a kid in a candy store
Sex scene sucked. Selina wore a bra under her suit. But when she's in bed with Bruce she's not naked. She has a tank top on. I suppose Bruce failed and Selina said: ok, I understand, you're wounded, I'll put something on, it's chilly here.
Sex scene sucked. Selina wore a bra under her suit. But when she's in bed with Bruce she's not naked. She has a tank top on. I suppose Bruce failed and Selina said: ok, I understand, you're wounded, I'll put something on, it's chilly here.
Sex scene sucked. Selina wore a bra under her suit. But when she's in bed with Bruce she's not naked. She has a tank top on. I suppose Bruce failed and Selina said: ok, I understand, you're wounded, I'll put something on, it's chilly here.
Whew. My overall feeling about events by the end:
But not in a bad way. I just...there's so MUCH to discuss
Namely, that I'll ne… morever see a bag of bagels and cream cheese the same way again. I really wanted Bruce to ask Alfred how to work a toaster.
I admit, I did not at all suspect Vicki, even though I kept her at arms length throughout my game. I guess because she was a reporter. But wow. Nicely done twist.
I was also not expecting to feel as bad as I did for Harvey. Admittedly, I wasn't a great friend in that I didn't rescue him first, and I didn't wait around to let Selina's cat let it out of the bag, so to speak. But after that scene, I kinda wished I'd saved him in Episode 2, as much as I carrot-three BatCat.
BATCAT. SO SWEET AND SEXY. I know I've said it before, but it ain't like Harvey isn't invited in my game. Even with the Other Guy dripping blood everywhere.
Haven't even gotten to Cobblepot's BS. My brain is a kid in a candy store
I remember reading that he had an inferiority complex before...and in one issue the Joker beat him in from of his wife...so I buy into this portrayal oh Harvey.
I had been doing everything I could to help Vicki. That was always the minority option - most people didn't give her the evidence on Falcone, nor did they sell out Montoya. Those numbers will likely get worse now that people know the truth and replay the game. The only thing most people did was give her a quote - it was listed at 90% - but I can guarantee you that number is going to plummet.
Looking back, every time she tries to get your help, she frames it in a way that makes Bruce seem self-serving. Give me a quote, and I'll help you clear your family's name. Tell me who shot Falcone and I'll keep your name out of the press. Even when you give her the evidence, the "nice" dialogue option talks about helping her because you need an ally in the press. It makes me wonder if, through trying to help her, I actually made her dislike Bruce more. It may have just served to make her see Bruce as somebody who is willing to sell people out and throw them under the bus to save his own skin.
On another note, Regina is clearly in the Court of Owls. I believe she truly cared about Thomas Wayne, and while I have no doubt that she wanted the CEO position for herself, I fully believed her at the press conference where she talks about trying to get Bruce some of his status back after things die down. Families need to flock together and all that. Shame getting drugged is likely going to ruin any chance of her helping you out.
Did anybody else get a dialogue option that said you sold out Montoya to Vicki in episode 2 even when you didn't? I really hope it's just a dialogue bug and doesn't affect the game going forward.
On that note, what do you all think will be the deal with Montoya? It seems like we have the chance to help/hurt her with our choices. Do you think it's going to be a matter of whether or not you can save her down the line?
I'm on Xbox One. I did sell her out, but the game seemed to get confused. When Alfred asked whether or not she would help Bruce out, the bottom dialogue option gave me the choice to say she was mad at me. When I picked it, Bruce claimed that he stonewalled her at the GCPD and didn't give her Montoya's name.
I was really upset by that. Nearly filed another support ticket. But I reloaded the game first, and this time, I picked the right dialogue option which had Bruce agreeing with Alfred, saying he needed to get the information. The game then had Bruce mention that he gave Montoya's name to Vicki and that she may be willing to help me out here.
Not sure which one the game considers correct. When Episode 2 launched, the Xbox One version was incapable of remembering you gave the evidence to Vicki. She seems to bring about a lot of glitches.
Did anybody else get a dialogue option that said you sold out Montoya to Vicki in episode 2 even when you didn't? I really hope it's just a … moredialogue bug and doesn't affect the game going forward.
On that note, what do you all think will be the deal with Montoya? It seems like we have the chance to help/hurt her with our choices. Do you think it's going to be a matter of whether or not you can save her down the line?
Hmm, looks like the game crossed wires in that dialogue option. The fact that another dialogue option got it right makes me hopeful that it's just a glitch in that particular conversation. When you reloaded the game, did Vicki mention you giving her the name in the conversation with her?
I'm on Xbox One. I did sell her out, but the game seemed to get confused. When Alfred asked whether or not she would help Bruce out, the b… moreottom dialogue option gave me the choice to say she was mad at me. When I picked it, Bruce claimed that he stonewalled her at the GCPD and didn't give her Montoya's name.
I was really upset by that. Nearly filed another support ticket. But I reloaded the game first, and this time, I picked the right dialogue option which had Bruce agreeing with Alfred, saying he needed to get the information. The game then had Bruce mention that he gave Montoya's name to Vicki and that she may be willing to help me out here.
Not sure which one the game considers correct. When Episode 2 launched, the Xbox One version was incapable of remembering you gave the evidence to Vicki. She seems to bring about a lot of glitches.
Comments
Harvey's voice actor did an incredible job in this episode. I want to protect Harvey so badly now. I don't care that he turns on us next episode, I know he's not really like that. I truly hope we have the chance to help him before it's too late.
The ending twist was...odd. At first I thought that it must be that Vicki was drugged to do this, but now I think it probably just is her. It would explain why the Children of Arkham leader's character model is so slender and there were hints earlier when I think about it.
I wonder if Oz knew that Vicki was going to drug Bruce and expected that attack. Part of me hopes that he didn't, because that could be a chance to maybe turn him around later on. If he realizes that he really is just a pawn. I hope we have the chance to change his trajectory at least a little. Or at least set the record straight. It bugs me that he seems to really believe Bruce is corrupt.
On that note, I'm really waiting for my opportunity to condemn what Thomas did. The "I'm not my father" choice in the press conference was good, but I want to expand on it.
All in all this was an amazing episode. I don't think I've ever been this hype for the next Telltale episode. This game is rapidly becoming one of my favorites from Telltale.
Seeing Bruce walk around in his underwear was the highlight of the episode, man clearly doesn't miss squat day. Although the plot twist at the end was a close second undoubtedly.
A small loan of a million Batarangs.
[removed]
Best episode yet. Everything Selina related was my favorite part. Batman is currently at #4 on my favorite Telltale games behind TWD 2 (#3), Wolf (#2), and TWD 1 (#1).
That's the only thing that takes away from the game is the choppy frames. I assume it's the new engine. Hopefully it gets resolved by TWD S3.
I wonder if deciding to keep a platonic relationship in this episode will hinder a CatXBat relationship in future episodes? I just couldn't do that to Harvey. But because I know for sure that they're not together now, on the count of Harvey wanting to flay me alive even though nothing happened, I wonder will Bruce be stuck in the friend zone because of my decision in this episode.
Hello everyone
Thanks! I absolutely love working with Emily, so I hope so too
Hello and thanks for making such an awesome episode.
"Hey Alfred, we're getting a cat!"
I thought since they were already doing it, it would have been rude to refuse.
(ignores all other options, goes straight for it)
That ass was fine though
Well, I remained on a platonic relationship with Selina on this ep. It's kinda hypocritical, batmans all against crime, but yet when a female criminal flirts with him, he suddenly is all lovey dovey with her. I wanna arrest catwoman.
Also, Harvey becomes TwoFace anyway? I saved him, so I'm pretty disappointed about how that choice turned out.
That ending was pretty good though, but I saw the vicki vale twist coming miles away, considering how much the leader person talked about the truth and all that.
Not necessarily. If anything, the episode's pretty much implying that Two-face was always there; when you save him, he mentions how his therapist told him the drug would cause 'issues' to resurface. Ergo, the choice in episode 2 basically determines how much control Harvey still has over himself.
The choice wasn't so much preventing Two-face as it was suppressing him. He loses it in Selina's apartment either way, sure, but if you ask me, it makes sense in that situation. The episode implies that stress is the main trigger for Two-face; when Harvey feels threatened or overwhelmed, or when he's angry, Two-face comes out. Given that he just found out/believes he's being cheated on-- with his best friend, nonetheless-- I think it speaks for itself why he went ballistic.
Almost every other Harvey scene besides the one in Selina's apartment is different based on the episode 2 choice.
Yeah, their best episode so far? I agree. I did feel like it was a bit short, but maybe it's just because of the way I played it. I will say this is the first time I've ever quit out the game to redo a decision for TellTale during my first playthrough. That scene when Harvey comes knocking after sleeping with Selina? MAN, I was so mad. I cursed that cat out so bad lol. I really loved how they made Harvey more sympathetic without beating it over your head. I wish they had THIS Harvey in the previous episodes, so it would have made it harder to choose between him and Selina. I don't mean Harvey showing his mental issues, I'm referring to how he spoke with Bruce. In short, Harvey didn't seem like an idiot. I can't wait for the season to be over so I can replay it and see the other outcomes. I handled the situation with Regina and Oswald very passively because that's how I play Bruce to be. Just a rich punk that wants no trouble, most of the time, when it comes to certain people. So I bit my tongue except for when Oswald offered to tell me about the murder of my parents - though I did say pretty please lol. Anyway, I did the speech exactly how they wrote it. Finally, that goddamn ending. I never liked Vale, NEVER, any variation of her always annoyed me. So when she appeared again, I was annoyed then PISSED when she revealed herself. It's one of those things NO ONE saw coming, and I hope that was always the plan and not just put in for shock. Overall, it was a good episode. I hope TTG keeps it up and makes the next one even better.
i really liked it, tho these ep's are so short (also i got into the debug mod in a fight with my 360 controller and lagged realy hard in the batcave) but i liked it
I really enjoy how well they did Harvey in this game. He is a very sympathetic guy who have his flaws. You truly feel like Bruce and Harvey are friends, which makes how their friendship spiraling down all the more heartbreaking.
I agree with this, even though I chose to save Selina in EP.2. I didn't have Bruce sleep with her, knowing Harvey and her were still very much in a relationship. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of a possible relationship between Bruce and Selina. But I'm not the kind of person who would sleep with a friend's girlfriend, knowing she is still very much in a relationship with him; no matter how complicated it is. Harvey obviously had true feelings for Selina, even if she didn't for him.That being said, I didn't like that Bruce could not defend himself in that situation. He was accused of sleeping with her by default and couldn't explain that nothing happened.
Also I was wondering: did you offer Selina to stay in the mansion or let her leave town? Just curious.
Vicki vale as the leader of children of arkham with the drugs that can make you go fucking berserk reminds me of scarecrow a bit?
Thank god they took their time to get this explained! it was one of my major "Wtf" 's from episode two. Hill ordering a hit because he had a change of heart? Yeah, sure! But seriously, I cannot appreciate this clarification enough. Thank you Telltale.
How was that explained? What did I miss? I didn't ask Oz in the end btw.
Telltale could certainly teach David Cage a thing or two about sex scenes.
I was gonna say this but I didn't wanna go overboard thank you for saying it.
I told her to leave town. Figured if she stayed at Bruce's, Harvey would show up later, and seeing them living together would just make him snap. I think it's better if Catwoman stays away for now. (Though I think she'll stay in Gotham after hearing of Bruce's "outburst")
Whew. My overall feeling about events by the end:
But not in a bad way. I just...there's so MUCH to discuss
Namely, that I'll never see a bag of bagels and cream cheese the same way again. I really wanted Bruce to ask Alfred how to work a toaster.
I admit, I did not at all suspect Vicki, even though I kept her at arms length throughout my game. I guess because she was a reporter. But wow. Nicely done twist.
I was also not expecting to feel as bad as I did for Harvey. Admittedly, I wasn't a great friend in that I didn't rescue him first, and I didn't wait around to let Selina's cat let it out of the bag, so to speak. But after that scene, I kinda wished I'd saved him in Episode 2, as much as I carrot-three BatCat.
BATCAT. SO SWEET AND SEXY. I know I've said it before, but it ain't like Harvey isn't invited in my game. Even with the Other Guy dripping blood everywhere.
Haven't even gotten to Cobblepot's BS. My brain is a kid in a candy store
Sex scene sucked. Selina wore a bra under her suit. But when she's in bed with Bruce she's not naked. She has a tank top on. I suppose Bruce failed and Selina said: ok, I understand, you're wounded, I'll put something on, it's chilly here.
Or maybe
and I know this is going to sound crazy, but hear me out
maybe they put clothes on afterwards
Also maybe she took a shower afterwards to wash you know some stuff..
Or maybe they both took a shower before heading back to bed. They had plenty of time in the night
Oh my god, I'm glad I'm not the only one! I'd OT3 the heck out of that.
Thank you!! Internet high five
Best episode yet.
Nice work Batman staff!
[removed]
I remember reading that he had an inferiority complex before...and in one issue the Joker beat him in from of his wife...so I buy into this portrayal oh Harvey.
I had been doing everything I could to help Vicki. That was always the minority option - most people didn't give her the evidence on Falcone, nor did they sell out Montoya. Those numbers will likely get worse now that people know the truth and replay the game. The only thing most people did was give her a quote - it was listed at 90% - but I can guarantee you that number is going to plummet.
Looking back, every time she tries to get your help, she frames it in a way that makes Bruce seem self-serving. Give me a quote, and I'll help you clear your family's name. Tell me who shot Falcone and I'll keep your name out of the press. Even when you give her the evidence, the "nice" dialogue option talks about helping her because you need an ally in the press. It makes me wonder if, through trying to help her, I actually made her dislike Bruce more. It may have just served to make her see Bruce as somebody who is willing to sell people out and throw them under the bus to save his own skin.
On another note, Regina is clearly in the Court of Owls. I believe she truly cared about Thomas Wayne, and while I have no doubt that she wanted the CEO position for herself, I fully believed her at the press conference where she talks about trying to get Bruce some of his status back after things die down. Families need to flock together and all that. Shame getting drugged is likely going to ruin any chance of her helping you out.
Did anybody else get a dialogue option that said you sold out Montoya to Vicki in episode 2 even when you didn't? I really hope it's just a dialogue bug and doesn't affect the game going forward.
On that note, what do you all think will be the deal with Montoya? It seems like we have the chance to help/hurt her with our choices. Do you think it's going to be a matter of whether or not you can save her down the line?
I'm on Xbox One. I did sell her out, but the game seemed to get confused. When Alfred asked whether or not she would help Bruce out, the bottom dialogue option gave me the choice to say she was mad at me. When I picked it, Bruce claimed that he stonewalled her at the GCPD and didn't give her Montoya's name.
I was really upset by that. Nearly filed another support ticket. But I reloaded the game first, and this time, I picked the right dialogue option which had Bruce agreeing with Alfred, saying he needed to get the information. The game then had Bruce mention that he gave Montoya's name to Vicki and that she may be willing to help me out here.
Not sure which one the game considers correct. When Episode 2 launched, the Xbox One version was incapable of remembering you gave the evidence to Vicki. She seems to bring about a lot of glitches.
Hmm, looks like the game crossed wires in that dialogue option. The fact that another dialogue option got it right makes me hopeful that it's just a glitch in that particular conversation. When you reloaded the game, did Vicki mention you giving her the name in the conversation with her?