If it's wrong your arguments would speak for themselves. Caroline isn't obligated to care for your sensibilities since she doesn't work at Telltale anymore. She can speak her mind just like any of us fans and still love Clem and even care for the fans despite what she tweeted out in distress. This is no where near the black and white situation you're making it out to be, you kinda acknowledged this so you should know she's still wrapping her mind around it same as you, and when you're stressed out like that it's hard to consider how others would feel from your words. I'm a fan and I want to see TFS finish strong, and here I am defending her right to voice her opinion. Is that not the empathy you're demanding from her? What does she owe the people who attacked her co-workers for suing out of not receiving their severance and their health care running out at the start of the month? Those employees are on the same ride as you, so it's better to set an example and show the empathy you want from them.
EDIT: And when I say care, I mean the twisted sort of care where you're hurt and betrayed but you're still emotionally invested so it becomes an inverse of care for a time, if that makes sense
Wrong. There are tons of different, more appropriate ways how to express what she tweeted so that no one would feel odd after reading that. … moreI understand their situation, most of us here on forums do, but they seem not to understand our side of the story. Granted, it’s their baby, but we are Clem’s peers who grew up with her. Plus, allegedly, the partner conpany is trying to hire former staff so whoever wants to has chance to do it. We have to stop blaming Telltale for this, nobodz wanted this, just there was this series of very unfortunate events that caused it...
She’s completely correct and I feel like the backlash towards her is really undeserved. To imply that she didn’t care about the fans all along because of one tweet is to ignore all the work she did to make Telltale more communicative with fans through blog posts, Q&As, giveaways, and fan art recognition.
It's why i really hope Telltale pulls through and convinces the new company to hire as many former TWD Telltale staff as possible. Otherwise, I don't think i could ever be happy with the remaining episodes.
As for the rest of the Telltale staff who weren't working on TWD, it really sucks, and I hope they get the severance they deserve one way or another but i don't think it would be right to disallow TWD to be finished at the cost of many potential former employees finding work from it just because other developers were working on different games. There's only so much you can do and in my opinion, the deal telltale are seeking right now according to the rumours is the best possible one that can be made out of an incredibly shitty situation.
Does the whole "another group of people finishing it = not same game" argument really work though? Hasn't it always been Telltales model to change lead writer between episodes and writing teams between each installation? Just curious.
Does the whole "another group of people finishing it = not same game" argument really work though? Hasn't it always been Telltales model to change lead writer between episodes and writing teams between each installation? Just curious.
Someone here actually has a sense of how business works in the real world.
Let's be realistic here: if you're in such a financially dire situation that you have to lay off practically all of your work force (referring to the first 90% they laid off in late September), it's absurd to expect that you'll be able to pay for a severance package for all of those employees. The employees are not owed a severance package, unless they explicitly signed their work contract with Telltale in which the company promised one in case they were laid off. I have not seen any evidence that suggests that any of these employees were legally obligated to a severance package in their work contracts. Employers will typically give employees a severance package if they are financially able to and they genuinely appreciated their employee's loyalty and quality of work at their business. The key thing to note here though is that they are not legally guaranteed to one unless that was explicitly listed in the work contract. To be more concrete, suppose that the average yearly salary was roughly $70,000 at Telltale, which is about $6,000 a month. Most severance packages are about 3 months; So, roughly speaking each employee would get in total $18,000 severance pay. Now, multiply this by 250, and you get $4.5 million of severance pay -- that's an insane and unrealistic expectation for a failing company. I don't even know if any of their games total sales eclipsed that number.
Finally, there's a point no one here has seemed to grasp: Telltale's fall, in a sense, is actually good for these employees, and the gaming industry. Yes, the employees are out of work (though many other companies are interested in recruiting them), but it means that they will actually have their talents being put to a better use in the economy. Telltale's production structure was clearly unsustainable; they made too many poor investments that did not receive returns that exceeded their costs. Too many employees, too many projects, etc. In other words, the consumers of their products did not value Telltale's production structure enough to sustain it. Thus, the natural outcome is for the production structure to suffer a loss. All of the factors of production that composed Telltale's business are being put to better use. That's the beauty and power of the market.
Well, this is not how the business works. Money comes first. It sucks I know but it’s reality. Unless Telltale is legally forced to pay them… more, they won’t get their severances. What they are obligated to do is to fulfill the season pass. Its not like Telltale is playing a role of good samaritan when they are trying to get a deal with another company to finish.
I think it's just important to remember that staff is going through the same mess as fans as well as losing their jobs and a project they invested a lot of development into. On top of that they had to worry that it wouldn't be them that finished it if found a new team to complete it. Even if everything turns out alright they still had to watch their studio fall apart all in one day with no severance and their health care going under at the start of October. That's a lot have to suddenly take in even if some of it will turn around eventually.
Does the whole "another group of people finishing it = not same game" argument really work though? Hasn't it always been Telltales model to change lead writer between episodes and writing teams between each installation? Just curious.
Rad elaboration!
I am surprised that even people like Cory Barlog(God of War director) criticized Telltale on their twitter for not paying severances. I would expect him to know nature of business after being in industry for decades. Still, I am sad for developers, but we need to look at things realistically.
Someone here actually has a sense of how business works in the real world.
Let's be realistic here: if you're in such a financially dire … moresituation that you have to lay off practically all of your work force (referring to the first 90% they laid off in late September), it's absurd to expect that you'll be able to pay for a severance package for all of those employees. The employees are not owed a severance package, unless they explicitly signed their work contract with Telltale in which the company promised one in case they were laid off. I have not seen any evidence that suggests that any of these employees were legally obligated to a severance package in their work contracts. Employers will typically give employees a severance package if they are financially able to and they genuinely appreciated their employee's loyalty and quality of work at their business. The key thing to note here though is that they are not legally guaranteed to one… [view original content]
Damn, I feel Caroline in my heart. She felt betrayed and has every right to be mad about Telltale's actions. She was easily the best Telltale employee we could communicate with in the forum, better than Job Stauffer but now she will not join the hype train for TFS with us anymore if the game still has a chance.
@mostlypoptarts if you're still here, I still miss you and I hope you find a better place for a job.
I applaud you for this comment, a much needed one in these times to explain how complicated the situation is and how, despite how upset we are over Telltale closing, this can actually be a great thing. It’s sort of a form of creative destruction with what happened. Yes, in the short term, these employees will be hurt, but now, their talents will be more effectively transmitted throughout the economy. Ultimately, the market has spoken, and when a company like Telltale becomes so myopic and stagnant, this is what will happen to them. As much as one hates to say it, they deserved this after years of being set in their way of doing things and not adapting.
Someone here actually has a sense of how business works in the real world.
Let's be realistic here: if you're in such a financially dire … moresituation that you have to lay off practically all of your work force (referring to the first 90% they laid off in late September), it's absurd to expect that you'll be able to pay for a severance package for all of those employees. The employees are not owed a severance package, unless they explicitly signed their work contract with Telltale in which the company promised one in case they were laid off. I have not seen any evidence that suggests that any of these employees were legally obligated to a severance package in their work contracts. Employers will typically give employees a severance package if they are financially able to and they genuinely appreciated their employee's loyalty and quality of work at their business. The key thing to note here though is that they are not legally guaranteed to one… [view original content]
To be fair, there is more to the game than just the writing. The animations (including combat scenes), cinematography, camera direction, and music all matter just as much towards the intended meaning and impact of a scene as the script itself.
Does the whole "another group of people finishing it = not same game" argument really work though? Hasn't it always been Telltales model to change lead writer between episodes and writing teams between each installation? Just curious.
Telltale got screwed over because Bruner was a greedy fuck and secured way too many licenses and then sued the company when he was forced to step down. Gender has nothing to do with it.
I'm not sure if no news is good news or the negotiations are taking longer than telltale thought they would I'm guessing who ever gets the IP would be tied to the original script as part off the t and c
Hope they manage to complete the game. Leaving their most iconic character like this is a terrible shame, I would be pissed off for years probably.
I can even wait for months for the last 2 episodes, it doesn't matter at all, but I really want to see the ending.
Let's hope for some news during this upcoming week.
wow dabigRG got banned, wtf did he do? he always was skirting around
Anyway, I hope they'll release episode 1 and 2 in some way, even if the rest of the season never gets made. I want to be able to play SOME of it.
I would like and hope to think that Telltale will have something to say next week. As of next week, we have around 6 weeks until the penned release of EP3 which is looking unlikely.
Excactly. She probably regrets saying that. She could've said that emo-reponse to the tweet where the Skeleton Crew got laid off. That makes some sense. But no, TWD may be finished and ''Let it die! The nightmare never ends!'' It sounds immature and I'm sure she didn't mean for it to come off that way so I'm fine with that.
Note: 'Let it die' is not referencing TWD, it's just the series of bad things that have been happening lately. But the melancholy phrase just doesn't fit in this context.
I tweeted at her and said employees and fans should be compensated and she said "if you read my original tweet, you'll note I dont disagree with you."
So just a poor choice of words I guess. I'm not sure what she means by "let it die" then.
I would like and hope to think that Telltale will have something to say next week. As of next week, we have around 6 weeks until the penned release of EP3 which is looking unlikely.
Good news.
I'm replaying the previous seasons a lot these days, I'm addicted to this series, now I just need to know that the last season will be finished and I'll be so happy.
Comments
Let's just not even focus on the tweet. Good news will likely be coming soon and we don't need to give attention or energy to any negativity.
If it's wrong your arguments would speak for themselves. Caroline isn't obligated to care for your sensibilities since she doesn't work at Telltale anymore. She can speak her mind just like any of us fans and still love Clem and even care for the fans despite what she tweeted out in distress. This is no where near the black and white situation you're making it out to be, you kinda acknowledged this so you should know she's still wrapping her mind around it same as you, and when you're stressed out like that it's hard to consider how others would feel from your words. I'm a fan and I want to see TFS finish strong, and here I am defending her right to voice her opinion. Is that not the empathy you're demanding from her? What does she owe the people who attacked her co-workers for suing out of not receiving their severance and their health care running out at the start of the month? Those employees are on the same ride as you, so it's better to set an example and show the empathy you want from them.
EDIT: And when I say care, I mean the twisted sort of care where you're hurt and betrayed but you're still emotionally invested so it becomes an inverse of care for a time, if that makes sense
Just to clarify.
She's right.
She’s completely correct and I feel like the backlash towards her is really undeserved. To imply that she didn’t care about the fans all along because of one tweet is to ignore all the work she did to make Telltale more communicative with fans through blog posts, Q&As, giveaways, and fan art recognition.
I believe that was Emily Grace Buck and the surgery cost $10,000, which is definitely accurate for vet fees in the Bay Area
It's why i really hope Telltale pulls through and convinces the new company to hire as many former TWD Telltale staff as possible. Otherwise, I don't think i could ever be happy with the remaining episodes.
As for the rest of the Telltale staff who weren't working on TWD, it really sucks, and I hope they get the severance they deserve one way or another but i don't think it would be right to disallow TWD to be finished at the cost of many potential former employees finding work from it just because other developers were working on different games. There's only so much you can do and in my opinion, the deal telltale are seeking right now according to the rumours is the best possible one that can be made out of an incredibly shitty situation.
Does the whole "another group of people finishing it = not same game" argument really work though? Hasn't it always been Telltales model to change lead writer between episodes and writing teams between each installation? Just curious.
All the writing is down anyway, so it’s going to be exactly the same, maybe with a few noticeable changes to the animations
Someone here actually has a sense of how business works in the real world.
Let's be realistic here: if you're in such a financially dire situation that you have to lay off practically all of your work force (referring to the first 90% they laid off in late September), it's absurd to expect that you'll be able to pay for a severance package for all of those employees. The employees are not owed a severance package, unless they explicitly signed their work contract with Telltale in which the company promised one in case they were laid off. I have not seen any evidence that suggests that any of these employees were legally obligated to a severance package in their work contracts. Employers will typically give employees a severance package if they are financially able to and they genuinely appreciated their employee's loyalty and quality of work at their business. The key thing to note here though is that they are not legally guaranteed to one unless that was explicitly listed in the work contract. To be more concrete, suppose that the average yearly salary was roughly $70,000 at Telltale, which is about $6,000 a month. Most severance packages are about 3 months; So, roughly speaking each employee would get in total $18,000 severance pay. Now, multiply this by 250, and you get $4.5 million of severance pay -- that's an insane and unrealistic expectation for a failing company. I don't even know if any of their games total sales eclipsed that number.
Finally, there's a point no one here has seemed to grasp: Telltale's fall, in a sense, is actually good for these employees, and the gaming industry. Yes, the employees are out of work (though many other companies are interested in recruiting them), but it means that they will actually have their talents being put to a better use in the economy. Telltale's production structure was clearly unsustainable; they made too many poor investments that did not receive returns that exceeded their costs. Too many employees, too many projects, etc. In other words, the consumers of their products did not value Telltale's production structure enough to sustain it. Thus, the natural outcome is for the production structure to suffer a loss. All of the factors of production that composed Telltale's business are being put to better use. That's the beauty and power of the market.
I think it's just important to remember that staff is going through the same mess as fans as well as losing their jobs and a project they invested a lot of development into. On top of that they had to worry that it wouldn't be them that finished it if found a new team to complete it. Even if everything turns out alright they still had to watch their studio fall apart all in one day with no severance and their health care going under at the start of October. That's a lot have to suddenly take in even if some of it will turn around eventually.
I... I just want a finale...
In before Clementeen gets stabbed in the final episode and has what might as well be a giant erection for the next scene.
Rad elaboration!
I am surprised that even people like Cory Barlog(God of War director) criticized Telltale on their twitter for not paying severances. I would expect him to know nature of business after being in industry for decades. Still, I am sad for developers, but we need to look at things realistically.
What in the actual fuck are you talking about
That, and TWAU S2
A joke about how getting a different modeling and/or animation team can have weird results.
Damn, I feel Caroline in my heart. She felt betrayed and has every right to be mad about Telltale's actions. She was easily the best Telltale employee we could communicate with in the forum, better than Job Stauffer but now she will not join the hype train for TFS with us anymore if the game still has a chance.
@mostlypoptarts if you're still here, I still miss you and I hope you find a better place for a job.
I applaud you for this comment, a much needed one in these times to explain how complicated the situation is and how, despite how upset we are over Telltale closing, this can actually be a great thing. It’s sort of a form of creative destruction with what happened. Yes, in the short term, these employees will be hurt, but now, their talents will be more effectively transmitted throughout the economy. Ultimately, the market has spoken, and when a company like Telltale becomes so myopic and stagnant, this is what will happen to them. As much as one hates to say it, they deserved this after years of being set in their way of doing things and not adapting.
tfw the forums dead ass became the wild west now that rules barely apply anymore lmao
To be fair, there is more to the game than just the writing. The animations (including combat scenes), cinematography, camera direction, and music all matter just as much towards the intended meaning and impact of a scene as the script itself.
um excuse me what
based on their gender???
that has absolutely no correlation as to why telltale shut down.
Telltale got screwed over because Bruner was a greedy fuck and secured way too many licenses and then sued the company when he was forced to step down. Gender has nothing to do with it.
wow dabigRG got banned, wtf did he do? he always was skirting around
Anyway, I hope they'll release episode 1 and 2 in some way, even if the rest of the season never gets made. I want to be able to play SOME of it.
I'm not sure if no news is good news or the negotiations are taking longer than telltale thought they would I'm guessing who ever gets the IP would be tied to the original script as part off the t and c
Hope they manage to complete the game. Leaving their most iconic character like this is a terrible shame, I would be pissed off for years probably.
I can even wait for months for the last 2 episodes, it doesn't matter at all, but I really want to see the ending.
Let's hope for some news during this upcoming week.
I think that was Emily Grace Buck. Good news is the doggo had a successful surgery and is currently recovering
They ban the most loyal members on the forum because the truth hurts
I'm not sure how making questionable comments about Clem's... figure constitutes as the 'truth,' but okay
There's literally almost no activity in these forums now that so many loyal members are banned.
its the wild west now...
The forum is dead o_o dang
Quite fitting since the website most likely will be sooner or later.
I would like and hope to think that Telltale will have something to say next week. As of next week, we have around 6 weeks until the penned release of EP3 which is looking unlikely.
Excactly. She probably regrets saying that. She could've said that emo-reponse to the tweet where the Skeleton Crew got laid off. That makes some sense. But no, TWD may be finished and ''Let it die! The nightmare never ends!'' It sounds immature and I'm sure she didn't mean for it to come off that way so I'm fine with that.
Note: 'Let it die' is not referencing TWD, it's just the series of bad things that have been happening lately. But the melancholy phrase just doesn't fit in this context.
I'm a long term member of this forum not to be banned
HOPE.
When was this published?
Good news.
I'm replaying the previous seasons a lot these days, I'm addicted to this series, now I just need to know that the last season will be finished and I'll be so happy.
Pretty sure Thursday.