making the Monkey head a giant robot was definitively the worst part of all.
I agree with that. The Herman Toothrot=captain Marley business at least can be explained away as an insane old hermit hallucinnating after getting hit on the head several times.
Goodness, I loaded up EMI to actually get around to playing it and within a few minutes of gameplay, got my first blue screen of death in ages.
Maybe this is a sign.
That's exactly what happened to me, (and I also took it as a sign) but now I've reinstalled it using the installer Chyron8472 suggested, and the game seems to be behaving itself for now.
user interface. controls. they SUCK!!! they suck so much, it's the only mi game i forgot what the story was AT ALL!!! i tried a few times to play it again, but i lose interest before leaving the first island.
pls, lucasarts, re-do that mess after mi2 and curse.
I agree with that. The Herman Toothrot=captain Marley business at least can be explained away as an insane old hermit hallucinnating after getting hit on the head several times.
Oh, I can fix that.
Wait...wait...I got it!
The real power of the Ultimate Insult was some sort of radiation that made everyone start hallucinating from the time that Guybrush used the gubernatorial seal. The Monkey Head transforming, the giant robot, the ultimate Monkey Kombat, they were all mass hallucinations shared by everyone who observed them.
I actually really enjoyed Monkey Island for its' atmosphere and its' story. I understand why people don't like it and respect their opinion. With that being said, I think it's wrong for Mike to hear for almost a decade how bad the game was when in all technicalities it wasn't-did well and got good reviews. Some people have suggested that they make Escape a "what if" game, which I think is just a punch and a kick in the face for Mike.
The guy worked incredibly, incredibly hard on that game and it did well. People have a right to complain, but to keep on doing it again and again even after Mike has delivered a masterpiece such as Tales to the series is sort of wrong to me. I'm glad the guy knows that there were still some great parts to that game. People have a right to their opinion, but saying that that it should not be taken as an actual entry in the series is a little much.
I actually really enjoyed Monkey Island for its' atmosphere and its' story. I understand why people don't like it and respect their opinion. With that being said, I think it's wrong for Mike to hear for almost a decade how bad the game was when in all technicalities it wasn't-did well and got good reviews. Some people have suggested that they make Escape a "what if" game, which I think is just a punch and a kick in the face for Mike.
The guy worked incredibly, incredibly hard on that game and it did well. People have a right to complain, but to keep on doing it again and again even after Mike has delivered a masterpiece such as Tales to the series is sort of wrong to me. I'm glad the guy knows that there were still some great parts to that game. People have a right to their opinion, but saying that that it should not be taken as an actual entry in the series is a little much.
The thing with Escape is that it's not necessarily a bad game, it's that it's the weakest link in an otherwise outstanding series. Yes, it does have its weak points. Yes, Monkey Kombat was pretty lame (though honestly, it's not that bad). But were the game standing on its own, it wouldn't get the reputation it does.
But the game isn't on its own.
Secret, LeChuck's Revenge, Curse, and Tales are all phenomenal games. They've earned a place in history as some of the best adventure games ever. When you compare Escape to them, it becomes the Louis Stevens of the series, if you will; the (formerly) youngest child who isn't as smart or athletic as its siblings and doesn't have any particularly exemplary qualities of its own. It's not a bad game, it's just part of a series where the expectations are higher. And for that, it gets picked apart to no end.
Plus there's the whole thing where it trashes the already established plot. There's no excuse for that.
I actually really enjoyed Monkey Island for its' atmosphere and its' story. I understand why people don't like it and respect their opinion. With that being said, I think it's wrong for Mike to hear for almost a decade how bad the game was when in all technicalities it wasn't-did well and got good reviews. Some people have suggested that they make Escape a "what if" game, which I think is just a punch and a kick in the face for Mike.
The guy worked incredibly, incredibly hard on that game and it did well. People have a right to complain, but to keep on doing it again and again even after Mike has delivered a masterpiece such as Tales to the series is sort of wrong to me. I'm glad the guy knows that there were still some great parts to that game. People have a right to their opinion, but saying that that it should not be taken as an actual entry in the series is a little much.
The thing with Escape is that it's not necessarily a bad game, it's that it's the weakest link in an otherwise outstanding series. Yes, it does have its weak points. Yes, Monkey Kombat was pretty lame (though honestly, it's not that bad). But were the game standing on its own, it wouldn't get the reputation it does.
But the game isn't on its own.
Secret, LeChuck's Revenge, Curse, and Tales are all phenomenal games. They've earned a place in history as some of the best adventure games ever. When you compare Escape to them, it becomes the Louis Stevens of the series, if you will; the (formerly) youngest child who isn't as smart or athletic as its siblings and doesn't have any particularly exemplary qualities of its own. It's not a bad game, it's just part of a series where the expectations are higher. And for that, it gets picked apart to no end.
Plus there's the whole thing where it trashes the already established plot. There's no excuse for that.
I agree with Guru. And, asking gamers not to complain about EMI is like asking Star Wars fans not to complain about the first two prequel trilogy movies. Yes, they're okay, but they just don't feel right in places.
I agree with Guru. And, asking gamers not to complain about EMI is like asking Star Wars fans not to complain about the first two prequel trilogy movies. Yes, they're okay, but they just don't feel right in places.
I agree with you, I'm just saying that some people go too far with their complaints. There's a difference between constructive criticism and just being harsh and unfair.
Controls were fine (as long as you're open to new logic), inventory was easy to figure out (given that you had access to a manual), and monkey kombat is actually one of the things I like best about the game.
What I hated about it, which brings the entire game down to a 4/10 rating for me, is:
-They made Guybrush into a total idiot
-Carla too
-I can't put my finger on why, but the entire Jambalaya island is extremely boring.
-The Herman plothole (it would be good as a retcon if they'd avoided the hole).
-The Herman plothole (it would be good as a retcon if they'd avoided the hole).
There's no avoiding a black hole like that. The Herman Toothrot plot hole could be called the Monkey Island Singularity. I tried to explain my way out of it once, and...damn.
Yes, I did just link that thing again. As crackpot theories go, it's a very good one, and I'm quite proud of it.
i guess i didn't really care too much about the story and just casually played it. I enjoyed it considering the fact that adventure games had died and it was like the only adventure game out.
so, there's a mix, most people think it's not "as good" as the others, a few like the game and nobody hates the game. interesting.
To be honest, i felt tales of MI lost the story the third and fourth games had. Again, because i didn't care too much about the game, i enjoyed it. but i'll tell you the worst part of the game. In the first episode, you can select several speaking options but they never were what guybrush would say. He would say something completely different and i hated that, so i am going to say, that out of the entire Monkey Island series, i hate episode 1 of tales, not escape.
I also, enjoy spinner cay, why don't people like that as much as the others? the trial one i think had the highest rating, but i nver really played that game, i kind of just watched and just played the end.
well i liked it, was funny, had some interesting and difficult puzzles and it was different from all the other monkey island(why not try a new villain?) ozzies intentions were easy to see, he wanted total domination of the caribbean and wanted to remove all the pirates.
Graphics were abit off but not the worst at that time.
ofc its what u like and do not like that decides if u like this game or not
In the first episode, you can select several speaking options but they never were what guybrush would say. He would say something completely different and i hated that, so i am going to say, that out of the entire Monkey Island series, i hate episode 1 of tales, not escape.
That's been a running gag throughout the series, and while I'm glad that Telltale used it, they made the mistake in the first episode of using it too much. Also, when they did it, all of Guybrush's choices were similar to each other, and what he actually said was a close approximation of all the choices, when it should've been the exact opposite. When used properly, though...
Voodoo Lady: They're adorable children. Would you like to see some pictures?
Option 1: NO!
Option 2: No, please, no.
Option 3: For the love of all that is good and holy, NO.
Option 4: I can't think of anything I would hate more.
Guybrush: Perhaps later.
King André: You do trust us, don't you?
Option 1: About as far as I can throw you, you low-life crook.
Option 2: Trust you? No chance, you filthy liar.
Option 3: I trust that you both are the lowest scum of society.
Option 4: You don't know the meaning of trust, you thief.
Guybrush: Of course I trust you!
Escape isn't that bad. It wouldn't get slammed half as often if it hadn't been made in 3D in an era where no beloved adventure game series should dare be different; the bad reputation's never left it.
Is it a great game? No. There's too many jumps in puzzle logic, it's overwritten, there's probably some things that don't work as well as they should. It's less about being a pirate and more about being a goof. But does it suck? No.
One last thing: the controls are not horrible. The only awkward thing in both it and Grim Fandango is that both Guybrush and Manny slowwwwly turn around while their legs go up and down, which makes them look like they're part of a marching band.
But yeah, EMI gets down for horrible art, horrible UI, pretty annoying puzzles (and Monkey Kombat) and generally being not all that funny.
It's like the Indiana Jones IV of Monkey Islands. They tried too hard and relied on fancy graphics/3D and totally miserably failed in the end, making everyone hate it and not want it be part of the series.
But yeah, EMI gets down for horrible art, horrible UI, pretty annoying puzzles (and Monkey Kombat) and generally being not all that funny.
It's like the Indiana Jones IV of Monkey Islands. They tried too hard and relied on fancy graphics/3D and totally miserably failed in the end, making everyone hate it and not want it be part of the series.
you know, everytime someone says horrible UI, i lol. Its really ironic, seeing as how UI can also stand for Ultimate Insult, rather than user interface.
But yeah, EMI gets down for horrible art, horrible UI, pretty annoying puzzles (and Monkey Kombat) and generally being not all that funny.
It's like the Indiana Jones IV of Monkey Islands. They tried too hard and relied on fancy graphics/3D and totally miserably failed in the end, making everyone hate it and not want it be part of the series.
Do you mean the REAL Indiana Jones IV (Fate of Atlantis) or the fake wannabe Indy that had some weird shit like aliens, communists and crystal skulls in it?
I actually enjoyed the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls
Plus there's the whole thing where it trashes the already established plot. There's no excuse for that.
This, basically. Aside from the quality of the graphics (which can almost be excused as being from a time when 3D graphics were still being worked out) and the interface (I don't really have an explanation for this one that satisfies me; I just didn't like the interface), the problem I had with the game was that it just didn't feel right.
It took elements from previous games (Herman, Murray, for example) but brought them back in ways that either ignored previous, albeit loose, canon (in Herman's case) or for no real reason other than fanservice (Murray). It brought something new to the series, but at the cost of creating a sort of snare in the timeline, particularly regarding H.T.
I will concede that I remember enjoying the Mystes o' Tyme, though. Fun atmosphere of weirdness.
I thought there were some really cool scenes in it. Storywise, I'm not so sure, but there were some really fun parts. The huge ants (which was insanely gross-worthy... I hate ants) and the fight in the middle of them, the motorcycle chase (in the beginning), the extreme rafting and so forth. The commies weren't much of an enemy though, they were kinda tame compared to the nazis.
BUT Tarzan, some of the humour (Indy jr. getting hit constantly in his private parts, which kind of reminded me of the scene they left out from Raiders - thankfully) were off, the refrigerator scene was just dumb and unnecessary. But instead of getting angry I'm just laughing at the decision to keep those scenes in.
Anyway, with a better editor not afraid to remove the really stupid parts, it would make for a rather good Indy movie. Overall, it's a already decent, thanks to Ford's Indy character (I don't think anyone could do Indy quite like him, unless he's a really good imitator).
The huge ants (which was insanely gross-worthy... I hate ants) and the fight in the middle of them, the motorcycle chase (in the beginning), the extreme rafting and so forth. The commies weren't much of an enemy though, they were kinda tame compared to the nazis.
The CGI ants where cringe-worthy (where are our living snakes/insects/rats?) as was the extreme rafting scene.
I have to admit I enjoyed the motorcycle scene though. Then it didn't look yet like the movie would be so terrible.
The reason I don't like EMI, quite simply: It's not funny when you make fun of something which doesn't take itself seriously from the beginning, often making fun of itself. Just makes you feel like the person who made the joke missed the entire idea of the original game and how the humor worked in it.
I wonder how Lucasarts got it so right with CMI and then failed with EMI, regardless of whether it was a good game or not, it is nowhere up to the standard of CMI (in my opinion at least)
Where as I think Telltale have really listened to what people want in ToMI
My fav has always been Curse. Not only because it was another brilliant adventure, but also because it kinda introduced us to what Guybrush, Elaine and LeChuck should look like and sound like if they were reality-cartoons, not just some sprites in-game. Although I also liked both LCR and SMI, it's really Curse that got me hooked for the whole series in the first place.
My thought is that when you set the plank high enough, you should always be sure that if you don't jump over it, you'll at least skim it. Meaning that when LA released CMI, fans were waiting for at least the same kind of game (if not better). And at the time LA was already bending toward console business, Grim Fandango having received a lot less praise than was expected. So this was the result of a regular, so-so quest called Escape from Monkey Island.
The reason people rage about it is mainly because the game, though well-made and thought through, looked like a piece of unfinished business hitting the shelves. It was 3D (well, not all, but back then all things Maya-made were called "3D"), which the gamers didn't appreciate, its controls were terrible and it had this inconsistency with the main plot that was really annoying for hardcore fans who know what they're talking about. So I guess this is where all the rage comes from.
My guess is that had the game not been released at that changing moment, maybe later, or maybe never released at all (and canceled along with the bunch of other projects spurned by LA, like Full Throttle 2, for example), it would've set a better ground for Tales and we could've been able to appreciate things shown in EMI that we didn't like back then (like Melee Island, that nobody wants to see anymore because it was unforgiveably bad in EMI).
But it happened. And it's 1 year short of becoming a classic already.
I wonder how Lucasarts got it so right with CMI and then failed with EMI, regardless of whether it was a good game or not, it is nowhere up to the standard of CMI (in my opinion at least)
Pretty sure it's because CMI was made when the LA Adventure department wasn't so abandoned and deserted yet. Remember CMI was made pre-The Phantom Manace, which got the LA SW-rage going even more than before.
I thought it was an all right game until I realized how glitchy it was. I faced many glitches that made me sick of the game, first one occurd in the mysts o time, I followed the chart WORD FOR WORD and got nothing for a while. Then a glitch that made me lose my paintbrush followed by a glitch that made where it was invisivble, so I coulden't see, thought I lost it, and posted a thread here asking for help. Then finally, I faced a glitch that really pushed me over the edge. A glitch that made Guybrush not move or do anything at all. I couldent use inventory, move, talk(I froze next to Otis), all I could do is pause and save. I tried to unplug and plug in the controller, turn on and off the playstation, EVERYTHING! I even deleted my file and started over, and NOTHING, still glitched. Ughhh.
I thought it was an all right game until I realized how glitchy it was. I faced many glitches that made me sick of the game, first one occurd in the mysts o time, I followed the chart WORD FOR WORD and got nothing for a while. Then a glitch that made me lose my paintbrush followed by a glitch that made where it was invisivble, so I coulden't see, thought I lost it, and posted a thread here asking for help. Then finally, I faced a glitch that really pushed me over the edge. A glitch that made Guybrush not move or do anything at all. I couldent use inventory, move, talk(I froze next to Otis), all I could do is pause and save. I tried to unplug and plug in the controller, turn on and off the playstation, EVERYTHING! I even deleted my file and started over, and NOTHING, still glitched. Ughhh.
lol
This sounds like you just got a glitchy version of the game, that's all. Thou there were some glitches in EMI (like the one where you get stuck if you didn't hit Herman on the head with objects in the right order), I doubt there could be as many glitches as that. Actually, it even sounds like your PC was half the prob there.
You said earlier in the topic that the graphics of the first three games suck compared to Escape? Are you kidding me? Why? Becaue Escape is 3D? The 2D graphics of the original three are what ADD to the charm and beauty of the games.
And Tales wasn't trying to continue the story of the fourth game. Why would Telltale continue a story everyone hates (as in the story in Escape)?
I never stumbled across any glitches when I played through it on the PS2 for my friend. He gave up on the game in the end, adventure gaming wasn't for him it seems. I played throught it while he watched. Not saying there weren't any glitches though, but not to that degree.
There appears to be a lot of Negativity towards Escape of Monkey Island. The first game i played in the series was curse of MI, and i thought it was cool. escape, i thought was brilliant, monkey kombat was a fresh idea and it was generally a great idea. i remember recommending the game to all my friends, that's how much i liked it. Why do YOU not like the game?
Also, alot of people like the second game (revenge i think it's called) and it's in competition with curse of monkey island. What makes it soo good, that they're in competition, i haven't played the second one, afterall, i'm having trouble finishing the 1st one.
Personally, I think the reason why so many people like the second game better is because:
1) The original graphics for MI2 were a lot better than the original graphics for SMI. ...I originally played SMI as the EGA version, but didn't play MI2 until I got the Monkey Island Madness CD, which has VGA graphics and CD quality audio for SMI, but only MIDI music for MI2, so I wasn't impressed there.
2) MI2 is longer and has a darker story. (I didn't care about those, because I thought the end was lame)
3) More interaction with various characters giving the people more character development/realism, and Largo is a good second banana to LeChuck.
i enjoyed the game because it was funny. the ultimate insult and everything. i guess from what you guys are saying, is that i missed the 1st 2 games in the series which meant i had less expectations of the outcome, which is understandable.
If you have expectations of a game, you'll find bad things about it.
If you have no expectations of a game, you'll enjoy the game with no critisms at all.
I guess i am the latter and many of you are the former.:)
It's true, EMI isn't terrible per se, but it is part of a series and it does things to recognizable fixtures from the overall story that:
1) ruin nostalgic memories of the known history of a character (ie. Toothrot can't really be H.T. Marley);
2) ruin possible future encounters with well known game fixtures (ie. The REAL Monkey Head from SMI was destroyed when the robot was unearthed in EMI);
and 3) revisit popular characters that have no purpose but fan service (ie. Murray outside Planet Threepwood.)
...Also, the style of writing is different from the other games:
1) Elaine is not as strong of character (her character is a supplement to Guybrush's rather than a compliment to him if that make any sense... basically her personality in EMI relates with his based on their similarities rather than their differences);
2) The other games are set in a pirate world with modern objects used for comedic effect, while in EMI the modern world we relate to is taking over Guybrush's pirate one and making his feel less real;
3) In the other games, the humor is also different or less obvious. While EMI is funny in it's own way, it's not funny in the same manner as the others. I would compare SMI/MI2/CMI/TMI's humor vs. EMI's humor to Star Wars' Ep. 4,5 and 6's humorous dialogue banter between characters vs. Ep. 1's slapstick comedy. It might be good on it's own, but it's not on it's own so it doesn't fit just right.
you mention lechuck as a secondary villain, which i find tales of MI to be, (the french dude seems primary until the end). does this mean you think tales isn't too good?:)
Not so. Just because we don't know that LeChuck is the true primary antagonist until the end of the fourth chapter, it doesn't mean that he's not. It just means that he's hiding his true intent until the time is right. The "Climax" of Tales' overall story occurs in Chapter 5 when
Zombie Guybrush is fighting LeChuck aboard his ship
. DeSinge can't be the primary antagonist of the overall story if he's
dead and gone even before the main "Crisis" element of the story, which is LeChuck revealing his intent and killing Guybrush
The previous games had worse graphics than this, even if they weren't up to scratch with modern games.
Again, the controls aren't not bad, per se. They're bad comparatively. Having played many an adventure game by using the mouse, most people were thrown off by the completely different control scheme (which, imo, seems like it was designed for a console and then ported to PC, rather than vice versa.) This being said, having use of the mouse means that you can interact with nearly any object in room just by clicking on it. In EMI, yo must first be close to it, then turn to look in it's direction, and finally page up/down to select the proper object in question. Using a mouse is much faster, easier and more precise.
As far as the graphics are concerned, the issue is that EMI's graphics haven't aged well. Part of the issue here is that different graphic styles, such as 2D graphics with sprites, 2D animation, and 3D graphics are normally set to standards by which they are compared to other graphics within their own style, rather than to each other. One would say that comparing SMI to EMI is "comparing apples to oranges."
This is to say that the 2D artwork and sprites for SMI and MI2 are masterfully done, especially compared to other sprite-based games.
To see what I mean, look at the original King's Quest I vs SMI.
(everyone, don't think I'm bashing KQ1, I'm just saying SMI and MI2's graphics are way better.)
CMI's graphics, while using animation as it's graphics style, are therefore (imo) compared to the quality of other similar animation from the same style. I wouldn't say that I compare CMI to being way better than bad stuff (since I don't know of comparable bad animation of the same style.) Rather, I find myself comparing CMI to other great animation of shows I watched in the late 80's as a kid since it seems so similar (which is good.)
EMI, being in the realm of 3D animation (at least the characters are), is therefore comparable directly to TMI. Yes, EMI is a much older game, but irregardless, therein lies the issue. The graphics of EMI are rather poor when it comes to 3D, whether you justify it as old or not.
...Now, having said all of this, many people are willing to overlook one or two bad gameplay elements (ie. story, graphics, interface, etc.) of a game for the sake of other elements that are good, but none of the good gameplay elements of EMI are good enough to make up for the serious flaws of the other bad elements. Especially not when compared to the other MI games, which I think is completely fair.
@Hee Ho Ho
Tales wasn't trying to continue the story of the fourth game. Why would Telltale continue a story everyone hates (as in the story in Escape)?
Again, the controls aren't not bad, per se. They're bad comparatively. Having played many an adventure game by using the mouse, most people were thrown off by the completely different control scheme (which, imo, seems like it was designed for a console and then ported to PC, rather than vice versa.) This being said, having use of the mouse means that you can interact with nearly any object in room just by clicking on it. In EMI, yo must first be close to it, then turn to look in it's direction, and finally page up/down to select the proper object in question. Using a mouse is much faster, easier and more precise.
There were two games with the GRIME system. Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island. Both times I was wondering why they changed from scumm to this. Sometimes it took a couple minutes get the inventory item (especially if you had like 10 items) you wanted and then get over to the spot you wanted and be able to use it. It just seemed very frustrating. I still haven't beaten Grim Fandango partially because of this. The other reason is with the 3d graphics, sometimes you have to be right by some thing to know that it leads to a new. In Curse you could just put your cursor on it and it'd say "path to jungle" or "exit" or would display nothing and you'd know it was a dead end. I was very glad Telltale
changed it back for Tales and Sam & Max so you at least had mouse support.
There were two games with the GRIME system. Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island. Both times I was wondering why they changed from scumm to this. Sometimes it took a couple minutes get the inventory item (especially if you had like 10 items) you wanted and then get over to the spot you wanted and be able to use it. It just seemed very frustrating. I still haven't beaten Grim Fandango partially because of this. The other reason is with the 3d graphics, sometimes you have to be right by some thing to know that it leads to a new. In Curse you could just put your cursor on it and it'd say "path to jungle" or "exit" or would display nothing and you'd know it was a dead end. I was very glad Telltale
changed it back for Tales and Sam & Max so you at least had mouse support.
Keyboard controls were disgusting, I agree with you. But to me it seems that the upgraded GrimE version for EMI was actually even worse than the one Grim Fandango was built on. Because first of all, in Grim there was no annoying text appearing at the bottom of the screen (yes, fans asked for the text line to be back, but NOT like this!). Second, there was a switch for character-relative/camera-relative controls in Grim, while EMI only adopted character-relative, thus very difficult to control the character because you didn't know where exactly the up and the down were. Not mentioning he'd go up when you press left etc. And finally, Grim's interface was easier to deal with as when you hit inventory, they didn't show you a circle of items (that can grow up to three sizes your screen depending on what you picked up) rotating like a coat rack. It was just previous-next pattern, which I found quite easier to navigate in.
Other than that, yes, GrimE wasn't the best game engine LA ever came up with. Compared to Scumm, it might've still passed the test, but after they implemented Lua (which The Dig, Full Throttle and CMI were made on), that just didn't cut it.
This is to say that the 2D artwork and sprites for SMI and MI2 are masterfully done, especially compared to other sprite-based games.
To see what I mean, look at the original King's Quest I vs SMI.
(everyone, don't think I'm bashing KQ1, I'm just saying SMI and MI2's graphics are way better.)
You can't compare KQ1 and SMI. KQ1 was made in 1984 and was the first adventure game EVER CREATED to have animated graphics in it where you control the character on screen. SMI was created in 1991 AFTER KQ1 raised the bar 7 years earlier for adventures by giving them animated graphics and characters. You can't compare two games because of their graphics when they have a 7 year gap between them. Of course SMI's looks better, but KQ1's was absolutely revolutionary for its time.
Anyway, as for the points about Escape sucking so bad, here's my thoughts. It's kind of like the MOE of the Monkey Island series. MOE was the last and "worst" of the King's Quest series and here's why: it didn't feel like King's Quest. It was a fine game for its time and was actually enjoyable to a point I think, but NOT as a King's Quest game. Escape probably falls in the same category. It's an ok game and a decent adventure but it is NOT a Monkey Island game. I haven't beaten the game yet, but I've tried playing it with an open mind with my wife and I'm still on Melee Island....bored. Nothing makes me want to progress in it in the least. Nothing feels like Monkey Island except for Dominic Armato's voice.
Anyway, as for the points about Escape sucking so bad, here's my thoughts. It's kind of like the MOE of the Monkey Island series. MOE was the last and "worst" of the King's Quest series and here's why: it didn't feel like King's Quest. It was a fine game for its time and was actually enjoyable to a point I think, but NOT as a King's Quest game.
I never played MOE but isn't it supposed to more of an action game than an adventure game? That was a big turn off right there. Sorta like Indiana Jones how they had Last Crusade, Fate of Atlantis, then I think in 99 they came out with the Infernal Machine which turns the series from from adventure games into a Tomb Raider clone. I know the Indy series was more than one genre but they had two really good adventure games and I was looking forward to a third.
Comments
I agree with that. The Herman Toothrot=captain Marley business at least can be explained away as an insane old hermit hallucinnating after getting hit on the head several times.
That's exactly what happened to me, (and I also took it as a sign) but now I've reinstalled it using the installer Chyron8472 suggested, and the game seems to be behaving itself for now.
user interface. controls. they SUCK!!! they suck so much, it's the only mi game i forgot what the story was AT ALL!!! i tried a few times to play it again, but i lose interest before leaving the first island.
pls, lucasarts, re-do that mess after mi2 and curse.
Oh, I can fix that.
Wait...wait...I got it!
The real power of the Ultimate Insult was some sort of radiation that made everyone start hallucinating from the time that Guybrush used the gubernatorial seal. The Monkey Head transforming, the giant robot, the ultimate Monkey Kombat, they were all mass hallucinations shared by everyone who observed them.
The guy worked incredibly, incredibly hard on that game and it did well. People have a right to complain, but to keep on doing it again and again even after Mike has delivered a masterpiece such as Tales to the series is sort of wrong to me. I'm glad the guy knows that there were still some great parts to that game. People have a right to their opinion, but saying that that it should not be taken as an actual entry in the series is a little much.
The thing with Escape is that it's not necessarily a bad game, it's that it's the weakest link in an otherwise outstanding series. Yes, it does have its weak points. Yes, Monkey Kombat was pretty lame (though honestly, it's not that bad). But were the game standing on its own, it wouldn't get the reputation it does.
But the game isn't on its own.
Secret, LeChuck's Revenge, Curse, and Tales are all phenomenal games. They've earned a place in history as some of the best adventure games ever. When you compare Escape to them, it becomes the Louis Stevens of the series, if you will; the (formerly) youngest child who isn't as smart or athletic as its siblings and doesn't have any particularly exemplary qualities of its own. It's not a bad game, it's just part of a series where the expectations are higher. And for that, it gets picked apart to no end.
Plus there's the whole thing where it trashes the already established plot. There's no excuse for that.
I agree with Guru. And, asking gamers not to complain about EMI is like asking Star Wars fans not to complain about the first two prequel trilogy movies. Yes, they're okay, but they just don't feel right in places.
I agree with you, I'm just saying that some people go too far with their complaints. There's a difference between constructive criticism and just being harsh and unfair.
What I hated about it, which brings the entire game down to a 4/10 rating for me, is:
-They made Guybrush into a total idiot
-Carla too
-I can't put my finger on why, but the entire Jambalaya island is extremely boring.
-The Herman plothole (it would be good as a retcon if they'd avoided the hole).
There's no avoiding a black hole like that. The Herman Toothrot plot hole could be called the Monkey Island Singularity. I tried to explain my way out of it once, and...damn.
Yes, I did just link that thing again. As crackpot theories go, it's a very good one, and I'm quite proud of it.
so, there's a mix, most people think it's not "as good" as the others, a few like the game and nobody hates the game. interesting.
To be honest, i felt tales of MI lost the story the third and fourth games had. Again, because i didn't care too much about the game, i enjoyed it. but i'll tell you the worst part of the game. In the first episode, you can select several speaking options but they never were what guybrush would say. He would say something completely different and i hated that, so i am going to say, that out of the entire Monkey Island series, i hate episode 1 of tales, not escape.
I also, enjoy spinner cay, why don't people like that as much as the others? the trial one i think had the highest rating, but i nver really played that game, i kind of just watched and just played the end.
Graphics were abit off but not the worst at that time.
ofc its what u like and do not like that decides if u like this game or not
That's been a running gag throughout the series, and while I'm glad that Telltale used it, they made the mistake in the first episode of using it too much. Also, when they did it, all of Guybrush's choices were similar to each other, and what he actually said was a close approximation of all the choices, when it should've been the exact opposite. When used properly, though...
Voodoo Lady: They're adorable children. Would you like to see some pictures?
Option 1: NO!
Option 2: No, please, no.
Option 3: For the love of all that is good and holy, NO.
Option 4: I can't think of anything I would hate more.
Guybrush: Perhaps later.
King André: You do trust us, don't you?
Option 1: About as far as I can throw you, you low-life crook.
Option 2: Trust you? No chance, you filthy liar.
Option 3: I trust that you both are the lowest scum of society.
Option 4: You don't know the meaning of trust, you thief.
Guybrush: Of course I trust you!
Is it a great game? No. There's too many jumps in puzzle logic, it's overwritten, there's probably some things that don't work as well as they should. It's less about being a pirate and more about being a goof. But does it suck? No.
One last thing: the controls are not horrible. The only awkward thing in both it and Grim Fandango is that both Guybrush and Manny slowwwwly turn around while their legs go up and down, which makes them look like they're part of a marching band.
But yeah, EMI gets down for horrible art, horrible UI, pretty annoying puzzles (and Monkey Kombat) and generally being not all that funny.
It's like the Indiana Jones IV of Monkey Islands. They tried too hard and relied on fancy graphics/3D and totally miserably failed in the end, making everyone hate it and not want it be part of the series.
you know, everytime someone says horrible UI, i lol. Its really ironic, seeing as how UI can also stand for Ultimate Insult, rather than user interface.
Do you mean the REAL Indiana Jones IV (Fate of Atlantis) or the fake wannabe Indy that had some weird shit like aliens, communists and crystal skulls in it?
This, basically. Aside from the quality of the graphics (which can almost be excused as being from a time when 3D graphics were still being worked out) and the interface (I don't really have an explanation for this one that satisfies me; I just didn't like the interface), the problem I had with the game was that it just didn't feel right.
It took elements from previous games (Herman, Murray, for example) but brought them back in ways that either ignored previous, albeit loose, canon (in Herman's case) or for no real reason other than fanservice (Murray). It brought something new to the series, but at the cost of creating a sort of snare in the timeline, particularly regarding H.T.
I will concede that I remember enjoying the Mystes o' Tyme, though. Fun atmosphere of weirdness.
:guybrush:
BUT Tarzan, some of the humour (Indy jr. getting hit constantly in his private parts, which kind of reminded me of the scene they left out from Raiders - thankfully) were off, the refrigerator scene was just dumb and unnecessary. But instead of getting angry I'm just laughing at the decision to keep those scenes in.
Anyway, with a better editor not afraid to remove the really stupid parts, it would make for a rather good Indy movie. Overall, it's a already decent, thanks to Ford's Indy character (I don't think anyone could do Indy quite like him, unless he's a really good imitator).
I have to admit I enjoyed the motorcycle scene though. Then it didn't look yet like the movie would be so terrible.
Where as I think Telltale have really listened to what people want in ToMI
My thought is that when you set the plank high enough, you should always be sure that if you don't jump over it, you'll at least skim it. Meaning that when LA released CMI, fans were waiting for at least the same kind of game (if not better). And at the time LA was already bending toward console business, Grim Fandango having received a lot less praise than was expected. So this was the result of a regular, so-so quest called Escape from Monkey Island.
The reason people rage about it is mainly because the game, though well-made and thought through, looked like a piece of unfinished business hitting the shelves. It was 3D (well, not all, but back then all things Maya-made were called "3D"), which the gamers didn't appreciate, its controls were terrible and it had this inconsistency with the main plot that was really annoying for hardcore fans who know what they're talking about. So I guess this is where all the rage comes from.
My guess is that had the game not been released at that changing moment, maybe later, or maybe never released at all (and canceled along with the bunch of other projects spurned by LA, like Full Throttle 2, for example), it would've set a better ground for Tales and we could've been able to appreciate things shown in EMI that we didn't like back then (like Melee Island, that nobody wants to see anymore because it was unforgiveably bad in EMI).
But it happened. And it's 1 year short of becoming a classic already.
This sounds like you just got a glitchy version of the game, that's all. Thou there were some glitches in EMI (like the one where you get stuck if you didn't hit Herman on the head with objects in the right order), I doubt there could be as many glitches as that. Actually, it even sounds like your PC was half the prob there.
And it's THAT glitchy?
You said earlier in the topic that the graphics of the first three games suck compared to Escape? Are you kidding me? Why? Becaue Escape is 3D? The 2D graphics of the original three are what ADD to the charm and beauty of the games.
And Tales wasn't trying to continue the story of the fourth game. Why would Telltale continue a story everyone hates (as in the story in Escape)?
I never stumbled across any glitches when I played through it on the PS2 for my friend. He gave up on the game in the end, adventure gaming wasn't for him it seems. I played throught it while he watched. Not saying there weren't any glitches though, but not to that degree.
Personally, I think the reason why so many people like the second game better is because:
1) The original graphics for MI2 were a lot better than the original graphics for SMI. ...I originally played SMI as the EGA version, but didn't play MI2 until I got the Monkey Island Madness CD, which has VGA graphics and CD quality audio for SMI, but only MIDI music for MI2, so I wasn't impressed there.
2) MI2 is longer and has a darker story. (I didn't care about those, because I thought the end was lame)
3) More interaction with various characters giving the people more character development/realism, and Largo is a good second banana to LeChuck.
It's true, EMI isn't terrible per se, but it is part of a series and it does things to recognizable fixtures from the overall story that:
1) ruin nostalgic memories of the known history of a character (ie. Toothrot can't really be H.T. Marley);
2) ruin possible future encounters with well known game fixtures (ie. The REAL Monkey Head from SMI was destroyed when the robot was unearthed in EMI);
and 3) revisit popular characters that have no purpose but fan service (ie. Murray outside Planet Threepwood.)
...Also, the style of writing is different from the other games:
1) Elaine is not as strong of character (her character is a supplement to Guybrush's rather than a compliment to him if that make any sense... basically her personality in EMI relates with his based on their similarities rather than their differences);
2) The other games are set in a pirate world with modern objects used for comedic effect, while in EMI the modern world we relate to is taking over Guybrush's pirate one and making his feel less real;
3) In the other games, the humor is also different or less obvious. While EMI is funny in it's own way, it's not funny in the same manner as the others. I would compare SMI/MI2/CMI/TMI's humor vs. EMI's humor to Star Wars' Ep. 4,5 and 6's humorous dialogue banter between characters vs. Ep. 1's slapstick comedy. It might be good on it's own, but it's not on it's own so it doesn't fit just right.
Not so. Just because we don't know that LeChuck is the true primary antagonist until the end of the fourth chapter, it doesn't mean that he's not. It just means that he's hiding his true intent until the time is right. The "Climax" of Tales' overall story occurs in Chapter 5 when
Again, the controls aren't not bad, per se. They're bad comparatively. Having played many an adventure game by using the mouse, most people were thrown off by the completely different control scheme (which, imo, seems like it was designed for a console and then ported to PC, rather than vice versa.) This being said, having use of the mouse means that you can interact with nearly any object in room just by clicking on it. In EMI, yo must first be close to it, then turn to look in it's direction, and finally page up/down to select the proper object in question. Using a mouse is much faster, easier and more precise.
As far as the graphics are concerned, the issue is that EMI's graphics haven't aged well. Part of the issue here is that different graphic styles, such as 2D graphics with sprites, 2D animation, and 3D graphics are normally set to standards by which they are compared to other graphics within their own style, rather than to each other. One would say that comparing SMI to EMI is "comparing apples to oranges."
This is to say that the 2D artwork and sprites for SMI and MI2 are masterfully done, especially compared to other sprite-based games.
To see what I mean, look at the original King's Quest I vs SMI.
(everyone, don't think I'm bashing KQ1, I'm just saying SMI and MI2's graphics are way better.)
CMI's graphics, while using animation as it's graphics style, are therefore (imo) compared to the quality of other similar animation from the same style. I wouldn't say that I compare CMI to being way better than bad stuff (since I don't know of comparable bad animation of the same style.) Rather, I find myself comparing CMI to other great animation of shows I watched in the late 80's as a kid since it seems so similar (which is good.)
EMI, being in the realm of 3D animation (at least the characters are), is therefore comparable directly to TMI. Yes, EMI is a much older game, but irregardless, therein lies the issue. The graphics of EMI are rather poor when it comes to 3D, whether you justify it as old or not.
...Now, having said all of this, many people are willing to overlook one or two bad gameplay elements (ie. story, graphics, interface, etc.) of a game for the sake of other elements that are good, but none of the good gameplay elements of EMI are good enough to make up for the serious flaws of the other bad elements. Especially not when compared to the other MI games, which I think is completely fair.
indeed.
There were two games with the GRIME system. Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island. Both times I was wondering why they changed from scumm to this. Sometimes it took a couple minutes get the inventory item (especially if you had like 10 items) you wanted and then get over to the spot you wanted and be able to use it. It just seemed very frustrating. I still haven't beaten Grim Fandango partially because of this. The other reason is with the 3d graphics, sometimes you have to be right by some thing to know that it leads to a new. In Curse you could just put your cursor on it and it'd say "path to jungle" or "exit" or would display nothing and you'd know it was a dead end. I was very glad Telltale
changed it back for Tales and Sam & Max so you at least had mouse support.
Keyboard controls were disgusting, I agree with you. But to me it seems that the upgraded GrimE version for EMI was actually even worse than the one Grim Fandango was built on. Because first of all, in Grim there was no annoying text appearing at the bottom of the screen (yes, fans asked for the text line to be back, but NOT like this!). Second, there was a switch for character-relative/camera-relative controls in Grim, while EMI only adopted character-relative, thus very difficult to control the character because you didn't know where exactly the up and the down were. Not mentioning he'd go up when you press left etc. And finally, Grim's interface was easier to deal with as when you hit inventory, they didn't show you a circle of items (that can grow up to three sizes your screen depending on what you picked up) rotating like a coat rack. It was just previous-next pattern, which I found quite easier to navigate in.
Other than that, yes, GrimE wasn't the best game engine LA ever came up with. Compared to Scumm, it might've still passed the test, but after they implemented Lua (which The Dig, Full Throttle and CMI were made on), that just didn't cut it.
You can't compare KQ1 and SMI. KQ1 was made in 1984 and was the first adventure game EVER CREATED to have animated graphics in it where you control the character on screen. SMI was created in 1991 AFTER KQ1 raised the bar 7 years earlier for adventures by giving them animated graphics and characters. You can't compare two games because of their graphics when they have a 7 year gap between them. Of course SMI's looks better, but KQ1's was absolutely revolutionary for its time.
Anyway, as for the points about Escape sucking so bad, here's my thoughts. It's kind of like the MOE of the Monkey Island series. MOE was the last and "worst" of the King's Quest series and here's why: it didn't feel like King's Quest. It was a fine game for its time and was actually enjoyable to a point I think, but NOT as a King's Quest game. Escape probably falls in the same category. It's an ok game and a decent adventure but it is NOT a Monkey Island game. I haven't beaten the game yet, but I've tried playing it with an open mind with my wife and I'm still on Melee Island....bored. Nothing makes me want to progress in it in the least. Nothing feels like Monkey Island except for Dominic Armato's voice.
I never played MOE but isn't it supposed to more of an action game than an adventure game? That was a big turn off right there. Sorta like Indiana Jones how they had Last Crusade, Fate of Atlantis, then I think in 99 they came out with the Infernal Machine which turns the series from from adventure games into a Tomb Raider clone. I know the Indy series was more than one genre but they had two really good adventure games and I was looking forward to a third.