I've only heard about the hint line joke a couple of times, but I always forget to go see it when I'm on Dinky, or how to even get to it.
As I recall, you need to deliberately go the wrong direction at some point on Dinky. After several screens, you'll wind up at the Call Box screen and be able to call Chester of the Lucasfilm Games Hint Line.
It's not necessarily deliberate. If you just wandered around the jungle, you'd find it easily enough. It's when you already know to
follow directions from the parrot
that you miss it.
Good point, but by this time, wouldn't most of us on the forum already know the proper method? Thus, we have to deliberately choose to wander. It's one of those cases where NOT knowing in advance lets you find the cool stuff.
Boys, that's ok, Guybrush and LeChuck are'nt so smart even in Mi2 or in TOMI, that are my favourite chapters of the Monkey Island saga.
But we are in the Monkey Island World, in which there are maybe TWO smart characters at all (Voodoo Lady and Elaine). The others are funny.
But for everything there's a limit that must not be exceeded.
In TALES, LeChuck is not a genius, but many player did'nt understand, when he was human, if it was really good or bad (ok, many of you maybe understood it, but that's not the point, the point is that the HUMAN LECHUCK WAS INCREDIBLY WELL-WRITTEN).
Then, he kills Guybrush with a sword, then zapps his ghost with Root Beer and hardly ill-treats his zombie corpse. He's still a good villain.
In ESCAPE he is CHARLES L. CHARLES and I think that EVERYONE understood who really was (poor and simple writing), then, to have something, he forms an alliance with an old man (and this was absolutely nonsense. He has voodoo powers and skeleton slaves, he does'nt need an alliance with an old man to have the ultimate insult).
Then, we see that in this alliance OZZIE CONTROLS LECHUCK. LeChuck, at a certain point, is going to kill Guybrush, but OZZIE STOPS HIM, and LeChuck says "ok". SORRY, BUT THIS IS NOT LECHUCK. The true LeChuck would have killed every man that only DARED to give him orders.
Guybrush too, is allways a parody of a pirate hero, but, as we see in Tales, he's funny but still strong and brave. If somebody mocks him, he has allways his revenge, like against Bugeye, or De Singe. And if Elaine says to him something that he does'nt like, he does'nt allways obey.
In Escape instead, he is the Elaine slave. She orders and he obeys. And then, everybody mocks him and he seems almost to like it.
Sorry, but i think that in a Monkey Island game the characterization is important. Expecially the one of the main character and the main villain. Tales of Monkey Island is a great game also because the characterization of LeChuck and Guybrush was, in my opinion, absolutely GREAT. Not too stupid and not too serious. And this is a balance that has to be respected. And was respected in Mi1, Mi2, Mi3, and Tales. Stop.
Bad graphics, bad art direction. Over-reliance on in-jokes and visiting old locations / characters. All-around unfunny. Tired and boring gameplay and puzzles, culminating in the genuinely terrible Monkey Kombat.
1.Ozzie Mandrill. OK, I don't like how LeChuck was subservient to him, and I don't like his flat motivation, but c'mon: he was the perfect foil for LeChuck as a main villain. LeChuck is all about pillaging and chaos: he only schemes so much before he just starts hacking and slashing his way towards his goal. Ozzie represents a fresh new threat: backed by the royal navy (Casaba), Mandrill's threat is more slow, gradual: it's a plan of cultural assimilation and eradication. If LeChuck is a sword to the gut, Mandrill is a poison. Have the alliance between him and LeChuck be much more uneasy, play up Admiral Casaba as his right-hand man a bit more, and we're in business.
Also, while the insult games got out of hand, I do think the twist of Mandrill using Australian insults no one could counter was a nice bit of genius. In fact, I'd have carried it further: how great would it be if the final battle with Mandrill had you ducking in and out of a library, learning even more foreign insults to attack Ozzie with?
2.Admiral Casaba. I'm flabbergasted it took so long for the series to introduce an actual naval figure. His monomaniacal attitude is a great plus, and he definitely should've had a bigger role in the game.
3. The Ultimate Insult. While I think the "insult games" should've ended with sword fighting (maybe arm-wrestling), I thought the Ultimate Insult was a great idea for an artifact of doom.
4. Allegro Rasputin. Quite possibly the best idea for a LeChuck henchman since Largo LaGrande. This guys isn't following LeChuck because he's afraid, or because he thinks LeChuck's his ticket to the big time:RASPUTIN BLINKIN' WORSHIPS HIM AS A GOD. This guy should be LeChuck's most devoted henchman and his most vocal supporter, ready to permanently silence any heretic who dares declare blasphemies against his God.
5. Guybrush's "creepy" answers. I thought they were just nods to Leisure Suit Larry. Frankly, I thought they were hilarious, especially saying "Hey, baby, that outfit's making me hungry," to an old, obese tourist.
Things that needed tweaking:
1. The tourists. Big problem I had with them was that they were too modern: you can keep the vocal characterization and body shapes, but the wardrobe bugged me. They should look closer to either bored European fops or outlandish and exceedingly tacky faux-pirates.
2. Once you hit Monkey Island itself, the energy is just sucked out of the game. It gets boring. I get the feeling this is how other people feel about the Big Whoop Carnival in CMI (though that never bothered me).
Things I hated:
1. Jojo Jr. That voice...ugh.
2.Elaine. Her voice, her relationship with Guybrush...it's all been said a dozen times already.
3. The giant monkey robot. Not so much the robot itself...but the fact that it's branded "the REAL secret of Monkey Island" felt too much like the game trying to ingratiate itself into the series (like LeChuck being subservient to Mandrill).
4. Monkey Combat. Really, what else can be said about Monkey Combat?
1.Ozzie Mandrill. OK, I don't like how LeChuck was subservient to him, and I don't like his flat motivation, but c'mon: he was the perfect foil for LeChuck as a main villain. LeChuck is all about pillaging and chaos: he only schemes so much before he just starts hacking and slashing his way towards his goal. Ozzie represents a fresh new threat: backed by the royal navy (Casaba), Mandrill's threat is more slow, gradual: it's a plan of cultural assimilation and eradication. If LeChuck is a sword to the gut, Mandrill is a poison. Have the alliance between him and LeChuck be much more uneasy, play up Admiral Casaba as his right-hand man a bit more, and we're in business.
Also, while the insult games got out of hand, I do think the twist of Mandrill using Australian insults no one could counter was a nice bit of genius. In fact, I'd have carried it further: how great would it be if the final battle with Mandrill had you ducking in and out of a library, learning even more foreign insults to attack Ozzie with?
2.Admiral Casaba. I'm flabbergasted it took so long for the series to introduce an actual naval figure. His monomaniacal attitude is a great plus, and he definitely should've had a bigger role in the game.
3. The Ultimate Insult. While I think the "insult games" should've ended with sword fighting (maybe arm-wrestling), I thought the Ultimate Insult was a great idea for an artifact of doom.
4. Allegro Rasputin. Quite possibly the best idea for a LeChuck henchman since Largo LaGrande. This guys isn't following LeChuck because he's afraid, or because he thinks LeChuck's his ticket to the big time:RASPUTIN BLINKIN' WORSHIPS HIM AS A GOD. This guy should be LeChuck's most devoted henchman and his most vocal supporter, ready to permanently silence any heretic who dares declare blasphemies against his God.
5. Guybrush's "creepy" answers. I thought they were just nods to Leisure Suit Larry. Frankly, I thought they were hilarious, especially saying "Hey, baby, that outfit's making me hungry," to an old, obese tourist.
Things that needed tweaking:
1. The tourists. Big problem I had with them was that they were too modern: you can keep the vocal characterization and body shapes, but the wardrobe bugged me. They should look closer to either bored European fops or outlandish and exceedingly tacky faux-pirates.
2. Once you hit Monkey Island itself, the energy is just sucked out of the game. It gets boring. I get the feeling this is how other people feel about the Big Whoop Carnival in CMI (though that never bothered me).
Things I hated:
1. Jojo Jr. That voice...ugh.
2.Elaine. Her voice, her relationship with Guybrush...it's all been said a dozen times already.
3. The giant monkey robot. Not so much the robot itself...but the fact that it's branded "the REAL secret of Monkey Island" felt too much like the game trying to ingratiate itself into the series (like LeChuck being subservient to Mandrill).
4. Monkey Combat. Really, what else can be said about Monkey Combat?
Interesting. I tend to agree with you on almost every point. However, I was quite fond of Jojo Jr's voice. Btw, what was your opinion on the whole Herman/Ht Marley business?
I didn't grow up with the games, so it didn't hit as close to home for me, but I could see how it would bug people. Someone on Mixnmojo outlined how the Toothrot/Marley revelation could fit within established Monkey Island continuity, and that made me feel better about it. If anything bugged me about it, it's the whole "trying too hard to fit into the series" business the game falls into sometimes.
Really, though, it was a plot device that gave them the freedom to have adventures that didn't necessarily deal with Elaine's governorship, and I think it works OK in that regard. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Marley family reunion in ToMI S2.
Not trying to be cheeky or rile anyone up but I honestly liked Escape more than Revenge. I would rate my favorites in this order:
Curse>Secret(SE included)>Tales>Escape>Revenge
Probably since Revenge was the only game in the series I didn't play when it was released, played in in 98 after Curse and I guess it just didn't suck me in, maybe due to how dated it was at the time. Plus, didn't really care for the story, finding the map pieces was just dull. Also some puzzles really bothered me, such as: looking up every single book in the library, using the monkey as a wrench, using the dog to find the map piece.
In defense of Escape, while the character models looked bad, I thought the backgrounds looked beautiful. The puzzles were a mixed bag too but the best ones were great, like the mysts of time. I thought, until it reached Monkey Island, the story was great. Liked the idea of a new villain that tried to take over the Caribbean. Unfortunately, it destroyed the piratey atmosphere of the previous games. I also hated the Monkey robot, which made no sense at all and was way too ridiculous even for the world of Monkey Island. Monkey Kombat was dull, but not a game breaker for me, just a boring variation on insult fighting. I did like the Herman Toothrot revelation, I just wish they tied up all the loose ends but it theoretically works in my mind so I think it was clever.
One of the worsts parts of the game, for me, was the controls. Mouse would be the best choice, but not... Lucas tryed ARROWS.
The game is not bad. I enjoyed it a lot back in the day, although there's a few parts I disliked. The main thing I disliked was the change of the general ambience... the 'bussiness' thing (I'm talking about the island sold as business on the story of the game) corrupted the whole pirate atmosphere. EMI looked more like a theme park than like a pirate story/adventure, and the final result, to me, looked a little empty.
Also are some nice parts. And I remembe ho wmuch I loved to see old places, as Melee Island in 3D.
Yeah, part 4 is meh, i still haven´t finished it. But i really dug the art style of Monkey Island 3, i´d love Lucas to do another full game in this style! Le Chuck´s Revenge with it´s pixel art is still the best Monkey Island for me, probably because it was the first one i got my hands on.
After doing SMI:SE and screwing up the music direction, not finishing the background art and having the actors put the wrong inflection in certain dialogue, I'd rather someone who knows what they're doing, like Telltale, to do it. However, Telltale has restricted themselves to using the Telltale tool for all their games, so a 2D style game like CMI is not an option for them.
I would just like to say, regarding the graphics in EMI, i dunno maybe its cos i was playing the PS2 version, where the controls are more suited to a joypad, and it has a higher polygon count, AND i was playing it on a small TV, I thought the graphics we're great. Much better than what I saw yesterday when playing the Demo of Ep. 1 of Tales, I mean really, i was on the highest settings, and the graphics, particularly for LeChuck we're appalling! and his voice actor?!!:eek: Awful, made me literally want to turn of the sound. I've got Tales on order, and i'm hoping the rest of the game can redeem itself, but from what i've seen in the Demo, EMI is much better than Tales, also the controls in tales pissed me off too, oh well i'll get used to them. But i hope the rest of the game is better than the tales demo. so far its actually the worst of the MI games i've played so far (in my opinion, from best to worst, MI2, Curse, Escape, Secret, Tales). I mean really, the graphics (particularly for the environment, and the glows on lechuck's body) were awful. Blurred textures and everything. Ick. Anyway, Rant over. In my opinion Escape wasn't that bad. I'd played Grim before, so i'd got used to the controls. Plot seemed fine, and i think when they said "the REAL secret of monkey island", they were taking the piss, it looked like that to me. Music as ever top notch, as well as the voice acting (is it me or do I not like Elaine being british?, bearing in mind im british myself, also her persona in EMI suited her perfectly, she's allways been a Bitch when she needs to be, whereas Guybrush being a wet blanket MOST of the time suits him.) OK some of the puzzles we're a bit long winded, but then you have to mix things up. Anyway, I always thought in Curse, Elaine's father was called HT Marley, (HT = Herman Toothrot) I can see it making sense.
I would just like to say, regarding the graphics in EMI, i dunno maybe its cos i was playing the PS2 version, where the controls are more suited to a joypad, and it has a higher polygon count, AND i was playing it on a small TV, I thought the graphics we're great. Much better than what I saw yesterday when playing the Demo of Ep. 1 of Tales, I mean really, i was on the highest settings, and the graphics, particularly for LeChuck we're appalling!
The thing is, Escape's uses pre-rendered 2D backgrounds with 3D character models, but Tales is completely rendered in 3D. I thought Tales' character models were infinitely better than Escape's.
and his voice actor?!!:eek: Awful, made me literally want to turn of the sound.
Don't dis Adam, 'cause he sometimes checks the forums and I think he did a good job. But if this is such a big thing, don't worry because on the DVD version he's replaced by Earl Boen, who voiced LeChuck for the previous games.
I've got Tales on order, and i'm hoping the rest of the game can redeem itself, but from what i've seen in the Demo, EMI is much better than Tales, also the controls in tales pissed me off too, oh well i'll get used to them. But i hope the rest of the game is better than the tales demo.
It does get better. Also, if you didn't know, you can use WASD instead of the click and drag method.
I currently hate Escape from Monkey Island because it just decided that all of my save files are corrupt, and I desperately need two of those save files for the Monkey Island race tomorrow.
Sure, it was the game that actually sucked me into MI series, it deserves credit at least for that. I mean, it's not a BAD game. Contradicting to other MIs? Undoubdetly. But so is CoMI, btw.
Yes, it has issues, and has not aged very well due to being blocky 3D... but it's enjoyable. Plus, I love Guybrush in the red coat. And his face on the cover looks awesome, too bad the 3D-limitations in EMI couldn't represent it.
And the Monkey Island section of the game is... not really great, yeah. But so is every other Monkey Island section of the other games.
As a game, Escape is a great adventure game, IMO. Most of the whining comes from the Monkey Island fans, and I can't blame them for that - there are reasons a MI fan can't like certain things in EMI, which may leave a bad taste. But, to be honest, I think that some people just go over the top. But, that's all strictly my opinion.
I think Escape as pretty decent. I found it funnier then the first two games, and whilst it had some dud puzzles (that darn filing system! To this day, i still have to use a walkthrough for that code!), it had a great atmosphere. I liked the tourism thing. I even though Monkey Kombat wasn't that bad (at least only a little worse than doing Insult sword fighting repeatedly in multiple runs). Even the character models weren't that bad. I would say they were better looking than the ones in the first two games. You have to hold the models up by the standard of the time. 3D models weren't that much better (for most games) than in escape at the time.
Plus, if it wasn't for Escape, i still wouldn't be able to read analogue clocks.
I wouldn't have done, if my mum hadn't gotten fed up of me asking what the time said on the screen that she bought me an analogue watch, and forced me to stop playing untill i learnt how to read it. Why couldn't Pirates have Digital watches?!
I do like it, but easily my least fav MI because of bad controls, not amazing graphics, the whole Lucre Island segment, Monkey Kombat and the Ozzie story. On the other hand, the chapter on the Monkey Island is fantastic (except MK) and I never had an issue with Jambalaya either, just the parrot puzzle is annoying.
While the rest of the series don't have issues with controls, their graphics are good in comparison to their era and I don't dislike complete islands or chapter either, so in my book it's obvious MI should be the "least loved" among fans.
EMI was my introduction to Monkey Island, and playing through it the first time around I found the controls infuriating and Monkey Kombat to be one of the most frustrating gaming experiences of my entire life. However, I found the characters charming and most of the jokes to be funny, which made me a fan.
I went back and played the rest of the series on ScummVM trying to find out the "first biggest monkey head" Guybrush ever saw. Imagine my disappointment... I was also taken aback by Guybrush's not being a complete fool earlier in the series, as I thought he was in Escape.
So I am a fan of Escape as I am a fan of Monkey Island, but it is bottom of the totem pole for me. If it were to be re-released with the controls and character models from Tales, and do something (anything) to improve Money Kombat, it would be up to par with the rest of the series (which changes positions on my "list" depending on what I am playing that day)
Let me say that I love EVERY Monkey Island game to DEATH. I personally think that Escape had some of the most hilarious moments in it... It's one of the few games that made me nearly spit out my drink in laughter.
I was introduced to the series with CMI--I was attracted to it because of the gorgeous animation and cinematics (which I think still holds up today). Glad to see all the other games are just as great!
I do agree though, Escape isn't "high" on my list of Monkey Favorites--but that means very little. It's still an amazing game.
(P.S. I hated Escapes controls, but I can live with them).
Let's be fair, as much as I love the game, it was Curse of Monkey Island that made LeChuck into a bumbling idiot.
I'm afraid Revenge did that. Answering Guybrush's stupid questions, "enjoying" picking up coins from the ground. Knowing his voodoo doll doesn't work, yet he keeps using it on Guybrush. Leaving Guybrush and Wally alone without a guard.
I'm afraid Revenge did that. Answering Guybrush's stupid questions, "enjoying" picking up coins from the ground. Knowing his voodoo doll doesn't work, yet he keeps using it on Guybrush. Leaving Guybrush and Wally alone without a guard.
Secret also made LeChuck look stupid letting Elaine go poweder her noise stuttering like a idiot when Guybrush foced Elaine to come out hiding while the monkeys bride is still there.
That's why ToMI LeChuck is so awesome
But LeChuck is nowhere as near as goofy in SoMI or LMI as he is in CMI and EMI.
That is so right. The CMI LeChuck was a mere shadow of the MI2 LeChuck and hit rock bottom in EMI, where he basically worked for another villain in order to achieve his goals instead of just cleverly / brutally achieving them himself.
That is so right. The CMI LeChuck was a mere shadow of the MI2 LeChuck and hit rock bottom in EMI, where he basically worked for another villain in order to achieve his goals instead of just cleverly / brutally achieving them himself.
Yeah. EMI plot would've been so much better just by removing LeChuck from the game entirely, IMO. I mean, Ozzy is a great villain, I liked Ozzy.
And that's why I'm totally against LeChuck in Season 2. Granted, there's some scheming concerning him (judging by the Ep5 post-credits scene) and he may yet return... but please, not in Season 2. After being at his best in Tales of Monkey Island, LeChuck needs to rest, or he will slide down just like he did in CMI and EMI - it's better not to overuse him.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and while talking about EMI, let's not forget the most awesome line in the whole Monkey Island series. And what I mean is...
"It's... pink..."
Yeah. EMI plot would've been so much better just by removing LeChuck from the game entirely, IMO. I mean, Ozzy is a great villain, I liked Ozzy.
And that's why I'm totally against LeChuck in Season 2. Granted, there's some scheming concerning him (judging by the Ep5 post-credits scene) and he may yet return... but please, not in Season 2. After being at his best in Tales of Monkey Island, LeChuck needs to rest, or he will slide down just like he did in CMI and EMI - it's better not to overuse him.
There are some people saying "Monkey Island is about Guybrush fighting LeChuck and vice versa. Period." (I actually read that pretty much literally somewhere in this forum. They have a point. Ron Gilbert decided LeChuck to come back in MI2, taking revenge on Guybrush. Larry Ahern and Jonathan Ackley somewhat ignored the Guybrush-and-LeChuck-are-really-fantasizing-brothers-part and let LeChuck come back once more, basically in order to win Elaine back. CMI was the part that finally welded Guybrush AND Elaine AND LeChuck into the main plot of Monkey Island and everyone would have had a hard time leaving any of those characters out of a sequel.
EMI wildly experimented with all possible sorts of presences of LeChuck (human, ghost, zombie, demon, statue) which is one more reason for me to dislike it because it's seriously going over the edge here.
Then came Tales, with a refreshing new plot, some subplots, pretty much independent from the storyline of its predecessors.
As we came to see, even those most talented writers didn't dare to leave LeChuck out of the plot. But they finally justified his countless resurrections - although the sense of them is not entirely clear yet. That is: Another resurrection in the next game would be tiring for sure, but at least "we have been warned that it is possible/probable and that there's a "greater meaning" for this which still has to be clarified.
If you ask me, I'd give LeChuck a pause of one game, then let him surprisingly come back at the end of the same. I honestly cannot think of Monkey Island as a series to be continued 100 % LeChuck-free. He's just too strong a character.
That is so right. The CMI LeChuck was a mere shadow of the MI2 LeChuck and hit rock bottom in EMI, where he basically worked for another villain in order to achieve his goals instead of just cleverly / brutally achieving them himself.
What wasn't clever about using his own power and wit to deceive an entire town, become major, rise in politics? He works with Largo in Monkey Island 2, oh no...that games sucks now that we think about it...
Mermaid
You know this trend in movies we have when the first part is pretty much stand-alone and the second-and-third part are closely connected to each other?
In SoMI he was a pretty standard villain. A nice villain nontheless. Pursuing his own agenda, seeing Guybrush as a mere little obstacle, and utterly failing to achieve his goal. Guybrush saved the day, got the girl, that sort of stuff. You know, SoMI being an adventurous story and all that.
In MI2 the stakes are higher. LeChuck is bent on revenge, Guybrush-Elaine relationships aren't working out too well, and all that brother thing, you know. Now. What the third part should have done? Conclusion of the characters' arcs.
Yes, it should have developed the conflict between Guybrush and Elaine, with their relationships being in a high danger(maybe adding another woman to set the stakes even higher), and the Guybrush-LeChuck conflict, with LeChuck being his brother and all, and Guybrush not knowing if he can be trusted, if he's a friend or foe, ultimately coming to a dramatic climax which would then end with Guybrush proposing to Elaine, LeChuck being destroyed but not before he got his revenge which we never really saw in MI2, only got a hint.
CMI utterly failed to do any of this. It just put it all in a few-minutes cutscene which isn't a very satisfying conclusion of MI2 events. Yay! Way to go! But wait! My paragraph reminds me of something... Oh, that's right! ToMI!
At first I didn't really understood this, but, the reason I like ToMI so much, is that it actually does the plot that MI3 should have done in the first place. Because it really concludes the arc that started in MI2... the only problem being it had to bear the fact that CMI and EMI happened. Maybe it has something to do with both Dave and Ron putting their hands on this, I don't know. But, really, some changes there and there, and ToMI would have become a wonderful MI3. Which would then, naturally, require a pause for LeChuck's character but could have hints of him coming back at one point or another, I don't have anything against that.
If the strong villain is used too often, he tends to stop being a strong villain. And LeChuck was used way too often to keep being a strong villain all the time.
What wasn't clever about using his own power and wit to deceive an entire town, become major, rise in politics? He works with Largo in Monkey Island 2, oh no...that games sucks now that we think about it...
I would like to point out that Largo worked FOR LeChuck in MI2, never did LeChuck work for Largo.
Comments
As I recall, you need to deliberately go the wrong direction at some point on Dinky. After several screens, you'll wind up at the Call Box screen and be able to call Chester of the Lucasfilm Games Hint Line.
Good point, but by this time, wouldn't most of us on the forum already know the proper method? Thus, we have to deliberately choose to wander. It's one of those cases where NOT knowing in advance lets you find the cool stuff.
But we are in the Monkey Island World, in which there are maybe TWO smart characters at all (Voodoo Lady and Elaine). The others are funny.
But for everything there's a limit that must not be exceeded.
In TALES, LeChuck is not a genius, but many player did'nt understand, when he was human, if it was really good or bad (ok, many of you maybe understood it, but that's not the point, the point is that the HUMAN LECHUCK WAS INCREDIBLY WELL-WRITTEN).
Then, he kills Guybrush with a sword, then zapps his ghost with Root Beer and hardly ill-treats his zombie corpse. He's still a good villain.
In ESCAPE he is CHARLES L. CHARLES and I think that EVERYONE understood who really was (poor and simple writing), then, to have something, he forms an alliance with an old man (and this was absolutely nonsense. He has voodoo powers and skeleton slaves, he does'nt need an alliance with an old man to have the ultimate insult).
Then, we see that in this alliance OZZIE CONTROLS LECHUCK. LeChuck, at a certain point, is going to kill Guybrush, but OZZIE STOPS HIM, and LeChuck says "ok". SORRY, BUT THIS IS NOT LECHUCK. The true LeChuck would have killed every man that only DARED to give him orders.
Guybrush too, is allways a parody of a pirate hero, but, as we see in Tales, he's funny but still strong and brave. If somebody mocks him, he has allways his revenge, like against Bugeye, or De Singe. And if Elaine says to him something that he does'nt like, he does'nt allways obey.
In Escape instead, he is the Elaine slave. She orders and he obeys. And then, everybody mocks him and he seems almost to like it.
Sorry, but i think that in a Monkey Island game the characterization is important. Expecially the one of the main character and the main villain. Tales of Monkey Island is a great game also because the characterization of LeChuck and Guybrush was, in my opinion, absolutely GREAT. Not too stupid and not too serious. And this is a balance that has to be respected. And was respected in Mi1, Mi2, Mi3, and Tales. Stop.
crappy controls
Monkey Combat
too little pirate atmosphere and some lame humor
Anyway, things I liked about EMI:
1.Ozzie Mandrill. OK, I don't like how LeChuck was subservient to him, and I don't like his flat motivation, but c'mon: he was the perfect foil for LeChuck as a main villain. LeChuck is all about pillaging and chaos: he only schemes so much before he just starts hacking and slashing his way towards his goal. Ozzie represents a fresh new threat: backed by the royal navy (Casaba), Mandrill's threat is more slow, gradual: it's a plan of cultural assimilation and eradication. If LeChuck is a sword to the gut, Mandrill is a poison. Have the alliance between him and LeChuck be much more uneasy, play up Admiral Casaba as his right-hand man a bit more, and we're in business.
Also, while the insult games got out of hand, I do think the twist of Mandrill using Australian insults no one could counter was a nice bit of genius. In fact, I'd have carried it further: how great would it be if the final battle with Mandrill had you ducking in and out of a library, learning even more foreign insults to attack Ozzie with?
2.Admiral Casaba. I'm flabbergasted it took so long for the series to introduce an actual naval figure. His monomaniacal attitude is a great plus, and he definitely should've had a bigger role in the game.
3. The Ultimate Insult. While I think the "insult games" should've ended with sword fighting (maybe arm-wrestling), I thought the Ultimate Insult was a great idea for an artifact of doom.
4. Allegro Rasputin. Quite possibly the best idea for a LeChuck henchman since Largo LaGrande. This guys isn't following LeChuck because he's afraid, or because he thinks LeChuck's his ticket to the big time:RASPUTIN BLINKIN' WORSHIPS HIM AS A GOD. This guy should be LeChuck's most devoted henchman and his most vocal supporter, ready to permanently silence any heretic who dares declare blasphemies against his God.
5. Guybrush's "creepy" answers. I thought they were just nods to Leisure Suit Larry. Frankly, I thought they were hilarious, especially saying "Hey, baby, that outfit's making me hungry," to an old, obese tourist.
Things that needed tweaking:
1. The tourists. Big problem I had with them was that they were too modern: you can keep the vocal characterization and body shapes, but the wardrobe bugged me. They should look closer to either bored European fops or outlandish and exceedingly tacky faux-pirates.
2. Once you hit Monkey Island itself, the energy is just sucked out of the game. It gets boring. I get the feeling this is how other people feel about the Big Whoop Carnival in CMI (though that never bothered me).
Things I hated:
1. Jojo Jr. That voice...ugh.
2.Elaine. Her voice, her relationship with Guybrush...it's all been said a dozen times already.
3. The giant monkey robot. Not so much the robot itself...but the fact that it's branded "the REAL secret of Monkey Island" felt too much like the game trying to ingratiate itself into the series (like LeChuck being subservient to Mandrill).
4. Monkey Combat. Really, what else can be said about Monkey Combat?
Interesting. I tend to agree with you on almost every point. However, I was quite fond of Jojo Jr's voice. Btw, what was your opinion on the whole Herman/Ht Marley business?
Really, though, it was a plot device that gave them the freedom to have adventures that didn't necessarily deal with Elaine's governorship, and I think it works OK in that regard. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Marley family reunion in ToMI S2.
Curse>Secret(SE included)>Tales>Escape>Revenge
Probably since Revenge was the only game in the series I didn't play when it was released, played in in 98 after Curse and I guess it just didn't suck me in, maybe due to how dated it was at the time. Plus, didn't really care for the story, finding the map pieces was just dull. Also some puzzles really bothered me, such as: looking up every single book in the library, using the monkey as a wrench, using the dog to find the map piece.
In defense of Escape, while the character models looked bad, I thought the backgrounds looked beautiful. The puzzles were a mixed bag too but the best ones were great, like the mysts of time. I thought, until it reached Monkey Island, the story was great. Liked the idea of a new villain that tried to take over the Caribbean. Unfortunately, it destroyed the piratey atmosphere of the previous games. I also hated the Monkey robot, which made no sense at all and was way too ridiculous even for the world of Monkey Island. Monkey Kombat was dull, but not a game breaker for me, just a boring variation on insult fighting. I did like the Herman Toothrot revelation, I just wish they tied up all the loose ends but it theoretically works in my mind so I think it was clever.
hehe, yeah. Might want to put your post in spoiler tags there, psychotron, for Dashing's sake.
The game is not bad. I enjoyed it a lot back in the day, although there's a few parts I disliked. The main thing I disliked was the change of the general ambience... the 'bussiness' thing (I'm talking about the island sold as business on the story of the game) corrupted the whole pirate atmosphere. EMI looked more like a theme park than like a pirate story/adventure, and the final result, to me, looked a little empty.
Also are some nice parts. And I remembe ho wmuch I loved to see old places, as Melee Island in 3D.
The thing is, Escape's uses pre-rendered 2D backgrounds with 3D character models, but Tales is completely rendered in 3D. I thought Tales' character models were infinitely better than Escape's.
Don't dis Adam, 'cause he sometimes checks the forums and I think he did a good job. But if this is such a big thing, don't worry because on the DVD version he's replaced by Earl Boen, who voiced LeChuck for the previous games.
It does get better. Also, if you didn't know, you can use WASD instead of the click and drag method.
Also, welcome to the forums, bergqvistjl!
With the updated installer, I can install it but not play it (XP-64).
I can're really remember it, so it can't have been as good as the others.
Sure, it was the game that actually sucked me into MI series, it deserves credit at least for that. I mean, it's not a BAD game. Contradicting to other MIs? Undoubdetly. But so is CoMI, btw.
Yes, it has issues, and has not aged very well due to being blocky 3D... but it's enjoyable. Plus, I love Guybrush in the red coat. And his face on the cover looks awesome, too bad the 3D-limitations in EMI couldn't represent it.
And the Monkey Island section of the game is... not really great, yeah. But so is every other Monkey Island section of the other games.
As a game, Escape is a great adventure game, IMO. Most of the whining comes from the Monkey Island fans, and I can't blame them for that - there are reasons a MI fan can't like certain things in EMI, which may leave a bad taste. But, to be honest, I think that some people just go over the top. But, that's all strictly my opinion.
Plus, if it wasn't for Escape, i still wouldn't be able to read analogue clocks.
I still cant lol
The time was 2:33
While the rest of the series don't have issues with controls, their graphics are good in comparison to their era and I don't dislike complete islands or chapter either, so in my book it's obvious MI should be the "least loved" among fans.
I went back and played the rest of the series on ScummVM trying to find out the "first biggest monkey head" Guybrush ever saw. Imagine my disappointment... I was also taken aback by Guybrush's not being a complete fool earlier in the series, as I thought he was in Escape.
So I am a fan of Escape as I am a fan of Monkey Island, but it is bottom of the totem pole for me. If it were to be re-released with the controls and character models from Tales, and do something (anything) to improve Money Kombat, it would be up to par with the rest of the series (which changes positions on my "list" depending on what I am playing that day)
I was introduced to the series with CMI--I was attracted to it because of the gorgeous animation and cinematics (which I think still holds up today). Glad to see all the other games are just as great!
I do agree though, Escape isn't "high" on my list of Monkey Favorites--but that means very little. It's still an amazing game.
(P.S. I hated Escapes controls, but I can live with them).
I'm afraid Revenge did that. Answering Guybrush's stupid questions, "enjoying" picking up coins from the ground. Knowing his voodoo doll doesn't work, yet he keeps using it on Guybrush. Leaving Guybrush and Wally alone without a guard.
Secret also made LeChuck look stupid letting Elaine go poweder her noise stuttering like a idiot when Guybrush foced Elaine to come out hiding while the monkeys bride is still there.
But LeChuck is nowhere as near as goofy in SoMI or LMI as he is in CMI and EMI.
That is so right. The CMI LeChuck was a mere shadow of the MI2 LeChuck and hit rock bottom in EMI, where he basically worked for another villain in order to achieve his goals instead of just cleverly / brutally achieving them himself.
Yeah. EMI plot would've been so much better just by removing LeChuck from the game entirely, IMO. I mean, Ozzy is a great villain, I liked Ozzy.
And that's why I'm totally against LeChuck in Season 2. Granted, there's some scheming concerning him (judging by the Ep5 post-credits scene) and he may yet return... but please, not in Season 2. After being at his best in Tales of Monkey Island, LeChuck needs to rest, or he will slide down just like he did in CMI and EMI - it's better not to overuse him.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and while talking about EMI, let's not forget the most awesome line in the whole Monkey Island series. And what I mean is...
"It's... pink..."
There are some people saying "Monkey Island is about Guybrush fighting LeChuck and vice versa. Period." (I actually read that pretty much literally somewhere in this forum. They have a point. Ron Gilbert decided LeChuck to come back in MI2, taking revenge on Guybrush. Larry Ahern and Jonathan Ackley somewhat ignored the Guybrush-and-LeChuck-are-really-fantasizing-brothers-part and let LeChuck come back once more, basically in order to win Elaine back. CMI was the part that finally welded Guybrush AND Elaine AND LeChuck into the main plot of Monkey Island and everyone would have had a hard time leaving any of those characters out of a sequel.
EMI wildly experimented with all possible sorts of presences of LeChuck (human, ghost, zombie, demon, statue) which is one more reason for me to dislike it because it's seriously going over the edge here.
Then came Tales, with a refreshing new plot, some subplots, pretty much independent from the storyline of its predecessors.
As we came to see, even those most talented writers didn't dare to leave LeChuck out of the plot. But they finally justified his countless resurrections - although the sense of them is not entirely clear yet. That is: Another resurrection in the next game would be tiring for sure, but at least "we have been warned that it is possible/probable and that there's a "greater meaning" for this which still has to be clarified.
If you ask me, I'd give LeChuck a pause of one game, then let him surprisingly come back at the end of the same. I honestly cannot think of Monkey Island as a series to be continued 100 % LeChuck-free. He's just too strong a character.
What wasn't clever about using his own power and wit to deceive an entire town, become major, rise in politics? He works with Largo in Monkey Island 2, oh no...that games sucks now that we think about it...
You know this trend in movies we have when the first part is pretty much stand-alone and the second-and-third part are closely connected to each other?
In SoMI he was a pretty standard villain. A nice villain nontheless. Pursuing his own agenda, seeing Guybrush as a mere little obstacle, and utterly failing to achieve his goal. Guybrush saved the day, got the girl, that sort of stuff. You know, SoMI being an adventurous story and all that.
In MI2 the stakes are higher. LeChuck is bent on revenge, Guybrush-Elaine relationships aren't working out too well, and all that brother thing, you know. Now. What the third part should have done? Conclusion of the characters' arcs.
Yes, it should have developed the conflict between Guybrush and Elaine, with their relationships being in a high danger(maybe adding another woman to set the stakes even higher), and the Guybrush-LeChuck conflict, with LeChuck being his brother and all, and Guybrush not knowing if he can be trusted, if he's a friend or foe, ultimately coming to a dramatic climax which would then end with Guybrush proposing to Elaine, LeChuck being destroyed but not before he got his revenge which we never really saw in MI2, only got a hint.
CMI utterly failed to do any of this. It just put it all in a few-minutes cutscene which isn't a very satisfying conclusion of MI2 events. Yay! Way to go! But wait! My paragraph reminds me of something... Oh, that's right! ToMI!
At first I didn't really understood this, but, the reason I like ToMI so much, is that it actually does the plot that MI3 should have done in the first place. Because it really concludes the arc that started in MI2... the only problem being it had to bear the fact that CMI and EMI happened. Maybe it has something to do with both Dave and Ron putting their hands on this, I don't know. But, really, some changes there and there, and ToMI would have become a wonderful MI3. Which would then, naturally, require a pause for LeChuck's character but could have hints of him coming back at one point or another, I don't have anything against that.
If the strong villain is used too often, he tends to stop being a strong villain. And LeChuck was used way too often to keep being a strong villain all the time.
I would like to point out that Largo worked FOR LeChuck in MI2, never did LeChuck work for Largo.