Nobody likes Escape from Monkey Island...why?
Hello,
There appears to be a lot of Negativity towards Escape of Monkey Island. The first game i played in the series was curse of MI, and i thought it was cool. escape, i thought was brilliant, monkey kombat was a fresh idea and it was generally a great idea. i remember recommending the game to all my friends, that's how much i liked it. Why do YOU not like the game?
Also, alot of people like the second game (revenge i think it's called) and it's in competition with curse of monkey island. What makes it soo good, that they're in competition, i haven't played the second one, afterall, i'm having trouble finishing the 1st one.
This link shows the competition between the two games http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14717
There appears to be a lot of Negativity towards Escape of Monkey Island. The first game i played in the series was curse of MI, and i thought it was cool. escape, i thought was brilliant, monkey kombat was a fresh idea and it was generally a great idea. i remember recommending the game to all my friends, that's how much i liked it. Why do YOU not like the game?
Also, alot of people like the second game (revenge i think it's called) and it's in competition with curse of monkey island. What makes it soo good, that they're in competition, i haven't played the second one, afterall, i'm having trouble finishing the 1st one.
This link shows the competition between the two games http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14717
Sign in to comment in this discussion.
Comments
People like the second game because it's probably the best thing LucasArts ever released.
But it just sucked overall.
It's not a bad game per se, but:
-Controls are BAD
-Some puzzles were... ugh
-It had a couple of bad bugs in it
-Monkey Combat (This actually counts as 3 reasons on its own right)
-LeChuck as a "#2 villain". A core part of MI is LeChuck as the main villain (at least at the end)
Personal issues (may apply to you)
-LA changed Elaine's voice actress
-The inventory system is not obvious and it's cumbersome to interact
-Some areas and puzzles are troublesome (time-based puzzles probably not a good idea)
-Herman Toothrot retcon.
-Ozzie Mandrill. I didn't buy his motivation, but he is an alright villain (but not for main)
-Graphics were alright for that time, but nothing spectacular (just look at Hilary Threepwood-Clinton)
-It's the least modern computer/OS compatible of the games.
Still writing was good (mostly), voice acting was also good (whether you like some particular actor/change or not), the overall story was more than average.
I'd give it a 5 or 6 out of 10. Of course compared to Curse or Revenge is a very large fall.
Also, to really enjoy Monkey Island 2, I think headphones and playing it on the PSP is perfect. The graphics don't look so pixelated (on large LCD monitors it can be a little messy) and generally looks like it originally did on a CRT from that time. The headphones will help you get into the atmosphere and mood and really enjoy the rather spectacular soundtrack. Possibly the best soundtrack ever in an adventure game. Yeah, CMI was good too, but nothing can top MI2.
EMI, I don't really hate it. It's got some good parts, and some bad parts. The worst part was the Monkey Kombat. It didn't really make sense, to be honest. It's supposedly meant as insult kung fu, but missed the point entirely by having the clever insults of the other variants completely removed, and instead have the meaningless gibberish. I understood the idea behind it (apparently, the words were so primitive that the insult hurt you regardless of wether you understood it or not).
It also has the worst story of the Monkey Island games. And they did some rather devestating changes to the series, that I don't think was for the better. Ruining the great Monkey Head and Herman Toothrot specifically comes to mind. In short, the Monkey Island universe became a lot sillier than it already was in the first three games, and completely overdid the subtle elements of those. Jambalaya Island was really pushing it over the line in particular.
Good things about it? Graphics are nice, puzzles are mostly okay, voice acting is as good as ever and the whole game just felt polished. Unfortunately, regardless of the polish it really doesn't capture me as much as the other games (including Tales). Easily the worst of the bunch. It's a decent adventure game, but the other Monkey Island's holds such a high standard that it's a failure in comparison.
Things I like:
Knuttin Atoll. It had a great atmosphere going on.
Elaine and Demon LeChuck had very good models.
Stan's theme from this game was by far it's best version.
Carla, Otis, and Meathook.
The cutscenes with Ozzie and LeChuck are surprisingly good.
The first church of LeChuck... Orthodox.
The music.
The running gag where you can say something flirtatious to every female character in the game, and Guybrush will say it in a really creepy voice.
Things I dislike:
The controls.
Guybrush gets bashed by everyone (Happens in every game to some extent, but usually it's not this bad or universal, and the people who are the worst get punished for it (Carla, Otis, Meathook, Rottingham, Largo, etc.). It's especially annoying when Elaine does it.
Guybrush seems genuinly stupid instead of just inept and absent-minded.
Murray (and, to lesser extent, Stan) in the game for no reason at all.
Guybrush ends up on Monkey Island for completly no reason at all.
Herman Toothrot is NOT granpa Marley.
The giant monkey head turning into a robot.
Monkey Kombat.
The ending. Illogical "epic" Monkey Kombat between egoless LeChuck posessing a statue and the giant monkey head, followed by a ridiculously short and useless cutscene.
The awful backgrounds.
Some very illogical puzzles.
Apart from Elaine and Demon LeChuck, all characters (especially Guybrush) had awful models.
Elaine and Stan's voiceactors were not as good as their Curse voiceactors. Neither were very bad though.
IMO the game could have been pretty good if the story hadn't gone to Monkey Island for no reason at all and instead continued on the fairly decent path of the first two chapters. I doubt that would have raised it above place #5 on my ranking of the MI games, but it would have made the gap between Escape and the other 4 games a lot smaller.
@jmm
you mention lechuck as a secondary villain, which i find tales of MI to be, (the french dude seems primary until the end). does this mean you think tales isn't too good?:)
Pros:
Dominic Armato as Guybrush
Carla is in it
Convinced me that having Guybrush and Elaine being married would actually work
MURRAY. (even with a criminally small role)
Also, at the time I actually preferred Elaine's voice actress in this game, I hadn't been taken by her inexplicable Englishness in Curse. However, Tales has now sold me on Alexandra Boyd so that's no longer a pro.
Cons:
I hate the PC controls. Hate, hate HATE.
Monkey Kombat.
Escape's version of the secret of Monkey Island. JUST NO.
What they did with Herman Toothrot. ALSO NO. Furthermore, since Escape goes with the 'accidentally maroon your crew on Monkey Island' path from Secret, that would mean that Guybrush had gotten back to Melee on Herman Toothrot's boat... so how the hell did Herman end up marooned again? (I forget if that plot hole is addressed in the game)
I would actually like to play through Escape again, but my PC seems to be allergic to it and keeps crashing when I run it. I might try it on my laptop, has anyone had any luck running it on Windows 7?
see, i never met toothrot before so when i met him the the 4th game i just loved bashing him up with different objects trying to regain his memory
-Horrible interface + controls
-Forcing traditions where they're not needed. IE. the dumb arm wrestling game + Carla and Otis return even though their characterization was incredibly weak, were out of character in general, and seemed as if they had no reason to be there other than "look guys, old characters."
-General bad characterization and out of character behavior. I'm not even going to start on Elaine. Guybrush was way too dumb and is apparently some sort of womanizer now? What was up with Jojo, the apparently generic animal sidekick?
-I'll let the awful graphics slide even if they are still pretty bad for its time. But the graphics are no excuse for the shoddy character design.
-Cringe-worthy attempts at humor. (We got stuck with a girly boat! HAHA HILARIOUS.)
-The writing, especially in the dialogue, just seemed bad. Didn't get very far to make a proper judgment but I've been told it doesn't get any better anyway.
Good parts? Voice acting, music, the puzzles seemed "okay" so far, (though hard to recognize them as such with that sort of terrible interface and also they seemed sort of rushed) and maybe the level designs with their camera angles and colors, etc. That's pretty much all I can think of.
If you have expectations of a game, you'll find bad things about it.
If you have no expectations of a game, you'll enjoy the game with no critisms at all.
I guess i am the latter and many of you are the former.:)
why don't you just print off a free walkthrough.
@jen kollic
if you have one of the more expensive windows 7 i.e. ultimate, then you will have something called xp mode, and considering the game works on xp, it should work through xp mode.
I played it when I was new to the series and was rushing through the four games to catch up with Tales. (which I only played the very very beginning of and stopped before Guybrush got on to Flotsam Island anyway) Didn't know anything about it and had no expectations at all, still found it awful. So that philosophy isn't entirely accurate.
The only reason why I didn't continue playing was because I told my friends "guys, this game is kind of dumb for some reason." And they're all "oh hey if you're playing Escape just skip it, nobody cares about Escape."
That's weird, it's XP that I've got on my desktop PC and that's the one which keeps crashing when I try to run it...
Pros:
-The voice acting was pretty good. I didn't like Elaine's recasting. She did a good job, but I like consistency in voice actors. Same with Stan. They weren't bad but I'd prefer to have the originals back.
-Soundtrack
-It's Monkey Island?
Cons:
-GRAPHICS! I'm sorry, but the graphics just look kind of lifeless and odd. I know it's an old game, but I feel like Curse (which came out years earlier) had a much better art style. The atmosphere wasn't there in the visuals.
-Story: It just felt weak. I can't really remember any new characters they introduced except for Ozzie Mandrill. The others were just kind of forgettable. Not to mention the plot holes it created and the DESTRUCTION OF THE TRADEMARK MONKEY HEAD!
-Characterization: Elaine especially. She was a considerable B-word in a lot of this game. Most of the ammo for the Guybrush/Morgan supporters probably came from this game.
-It just wasn't as fun to play as the other ones. Monkey Kombat, some of the puzzles...
-It also wasn't as funny.
That said, I do think that LeChuck's Revenge is kind of overrated too. It's soundtrack and story beat Secret hands down (though it is marred by that ending) but I just don't think it's very funny, which is an important quality for a MI game. I don't really consider it as perfect as most of the people here...
the theory works, i had NO expectations. like you said, your friend said it was "rubbish". now if i told you sam and max was rubbish, you wouldn't play that with enthusiasm either. you played every monkey island game because something told you these games are good, so you expected them to be good, you had a standard. i didn't i was like "a new game?!? thanks, i'd love to play it" - no expectations.
-Monkey Kombat
-The illogical puzzles on Lucre Island (pogo the monkey dials and mystes of time)
-Herman Toothrot does not equal captain marley.
-Robot Monkey that somehow in monkey island 1 was the entrance to hell (or whatever that was to Lechuck's ship). It can't be both. Even with the garbage that hell closed up by mi4. How do skeleton bones turn into a robot?
-Let's allow a guy who's defeat you twice, escaped your traps numerous times, to go be deserted on an island instead of doing the smart thing and kill him to ensure he doesn't come back and cause trouble. That just seemed like poor writing to me.
what are your system specs?
I actually consider that less Escape's fault and more MI2's fault. That plot hole was opened when Herman showed up on Dinky Island in LeChuck's Revenge, and when Curse retconned Dinky Island into being an atoll off the coast of Monkey Island with a series of tunnels beneath, it prevented Escape from having a plot hole with Herman being on the wrong island. Now the only problem is, how the hell did he get marooned again in MI2? Well, the only problem concerning him being marooned again, anyway. Plenty of other problems with him...
I actually thought Otis was in character, especially when he was locked up on Lucre. "I'm a victim of society!" and all that. But yeah, they didn't seem to spend much effort on...well, any of the characters, new or old. The old characters weren't handled very well (I'm looking at you, Stan), and none of the new characters were interesting or memorable, to the extent that I totally forgot about Ignatius Cheese after playing the game the first time.
Also, I can't believe nobody's said anything about Stan's awful Escape voice actor. He's gone from a lovable smooth-talking swindler to a nasally, high-pitched...thing. Of all the old characters, Stan's overall treatment was the worst of all.
Also, buggy puzzles. Specifically the Mysts-o-Tyme marshe and the Vista Point boulder puzzle. I always have a problem with Guybrush not wanting to get off the raft when he gets through the marshe, and the boulder puzzle doesn't work well at all on PCs that are too much more powerful than what was out in 2000. I shouldn't need a stopwatch and a sheet of paper to solve the damn thing.
Lastly, I've got a slightly different sort of Monkey Kombat. Yes, I grant it was an interesting idea. Yes, I feel that it was greatly mishandled. Yes, it does get tedious and boring very quickly. But what irks me the most about it is that it's the hardest of the insult games to force a desired response in. Every time I play Escape, I try to go through the thought process of "okay, I want him to go from this to this, so I need to go to this to try to tempt him to go that way, and hope he doesn't go to the other one", if that makes any sense. Basically, filling in the final squares on the chart is a major pain in the ass because there's no good logical way to force the monkeys to show you the right combination.
You are kind of making assumptions about the way I play games here.
No, the theory doesn't work for all occasions, sure I can be biased based on my friends, but my friends didn't tell me anything about this game. Only when I played it and decided myself that I didn't like it did they tell me I should skip it if I want. Also, I don't get a bias very easily, my only expectations of games is that they should be fun and work properly.
I can think of many examples where the theory doesn't work. My friends told me Sam & Max: Hit the Road was bad on the gameplay front but I still liked it when I played it for myself, there was a lot of hype between friends with The Sims: 3 but I hated it. It's different taste, not a bias.
Ahh, but (SPOILERS)
In Escape, it's just sudden at the end, LeChuck follows Ozzie's every order right up to the end when he finds out the Ultimate Insult doesn't work, and, in a sense, LeChuck just goes "Well fuck you, that was pointless, I'm out!".
In Tales however, it's all to do with Plot, even though we have three/four different characters controlling the scenes and playing the part for themselves (Elaine, Voodoo Lady, etc), LeChuck's part was just brilliant in the way he had to trick everyone to believe he's a new man, and right at the end of Chapter 4, when he just strolls in, KILLS Guybrush and becomes Earl Boen, erm, Demon LeChuck again and he reveals that he used Guybrush to get La Esponge Grande so that he could collect all the Voodoo energy back, which is also revealed in Chapter 5 that he planned to use it once the path way to the cross roads had been opened, etc.
Basically, plot wise, it fit, it was detailed and LeChuck had a reason to do what he was doing, compared to Escape where he was following Ozzie because Ozzie apparently saved him from being trapped under ice, and LeChuck turning at the end just because he couldn't be bothered anymore.
However, overall, I think the game is considered sub par mainly because of the Monkey Kombat. While it is tedious like learning the insults, there is really no pay off. It's not particularly funny, and it ends up pissing you off more than anything.
On the positive side, I felt that the story was decent. There was nothing that particularly bothered me about retconning Herman or anything. It seems like the retcon makes the story all tie together a bit in the end.
The graphics were quite nice for the time, and the voice acting was pretty great.
And, the consumer society thing was pretty genius. I thought that was a pretty fresh way to change up the environments.
However, does anyone think some of the puzzles are not logical? Certain things bothered me-primarily Lucre Island I believe.
Really? There was nothing that bothered you about it? The captain's journal on the Sea Monkey didn't strike you as conflicting? Or that by setting the boat race 20 years in the past, LeChuck's backstory concerning Elaine and Minnie Goodsoup would make Elaine much older than she is? Or that by making Ozzie the one who sent him into the whirlpool, it retcons LeChuck's ultimatum to allow Marley to live if he gave him Elaine's hand in marriage? And you feel that all of that helped to tie it together in the end?
The Herman Toothrot/Captain Marley retcon opened up the biggest plot hole in the entire series. A plot singularity, if you will, around which the entire plot collapses unless you go to some extreme lengths to create a very contrived explanation.
I have Windows 7 and it runs great for me in Windows 7. What you need is the updated installer for it:
http://quick.mixnmojo.com/escape-from-monkey-island-setup
Use that. I personally confirm that gets it to work properly.
At first I hated the controls, but after a while they grew on me. Still hated that you had to walk everywhere to find hotspots. And even in the end I always automatically put my hand on the mouse when I started up the game.
Character models are bad, though. I like the backgrounds at all, but the characters really suffer from the 3D. They're okay in the cutscenes, but all blocky and angular during regular gameplay.
LeChuck was deceiving us all. He was the real threat, but was just biding his time until the opportune moment. De Singe was dangerous, but was a wimp in the end. In fact, LeChuck and De Singe didn't even acknowledge each other's existence until the end of Chapter 4.
Ozzie Mandrill, however, not only obtained complete control over LeChuck, making LeChuck little more than a tool, but Ozzie was also attacking piracy itself in a way that was impossible to fight against. Indeed, the effects could possibly last far beyond Ozzie's defeat, which makes Ozzie more dangerous than LeChuck who prefers to slaughter everyone. EMI doesn't fit because LeChuck had never before played second fiddle to anyone else.
Primarily, what this all means is: PLAY MI1 and 2. Get a walkthrough or use a Universal Hint System guide. You'll see.
And EMI's interface really does suck. you can't ever user the mouse, not even in the Options Menu. Adventure games have been using mostly point-and-click interfaces for a long time now. Heck, Maniac Mansion was point-and-click and it was released in 1987.
But admitted...MI2 was the best! And it would be GREAT to se CMI and EMI in 2D...now that would be fun!
There are only 2 games I ever started and then gave up on. I think I got through about 10 levels of Zack & Wiki before deciding it wasn't for me, which is a lot further.
This thread is the first I've heard of a PS2 version... Maybe I could look into that... Maybe not... I don't know.
... CMI IS in 2D. xD Did you mean TMI?
The graphics and character models do freak me out a little, though. They're just so expressionless and maybe slightly creepy. A big, big difference from the previous three games.
Also oh god the control system. It takes far too long to walk anywhere and my fingers hurt. It also does take some time to get used to the keys, as opposed to the simple point and click interface of the other games.
Then again, it really isn't the worst game I've ever played, it's quite far from that. Considering how wonderful the previous three games were though, it's easy to understand why people dislike this game.
NOW that is one cocky answer. Come on, the guy is asking WHY and your arguments are: "its bad" and "thats the best". Give him a break.
I think EMI deserves it justifiable place in the series. Sure, the game has its weaknesses in the plot and some puzzles are a bit illogical, but the game is enjoyable most of the time and it definitely manages to collar that, oh so important Monkey Island atmosphere.
Also, I do not appreciate taking the story in ToMI to any manatee intestines/shithole action. The Merfolk people were disgusting as well and I dont see the point in involving them at all.
( Im ok wiht talking skeletons here and there, as theyre important concerning the voodoo theme around, and even with a flash of a three-headed monkey every now and then, but thats about as far as I`d go to that direction.)
Those kinds of parts of ToMI as mentioned before are as big a no-no in my books concerning the overall plot of the series, as the Herman Toothrot = H.T. Marley stuff or the fight in the end of EMI.
When it come to the puzzle designing i think ToMI had some nice puzzles but that they were all too easy. EMI had its illogical puzzles, but atleast the overall difficulty level was also harder, so I wouldnt complain too much in the puzzles section either.
All in all, EMI wasn't a bad game, it just totally messed up parts of the story of Monkey Island, weaved in some irreversible incidents that destroyed a great deal of the saga's originality (making the Monkey head (which also looked incredibly cheap) a giant robot was definitively the worst part of all.).
Maybe this is a sign.