"Nobody likes Escape from Monkey Island"
I actually think we all do. If MI1 and 2 and CMI didn't exist, then the people here complaining about EMI would likely be bigging it up as a cult classic.
Some things good about it
1 - It is funny! I haven't seen anyone complain about that yet, because it is just damned funny.
2 - The puzzles are damned good. I have seen a couple of complaints about them, but I don't really understand that. Mists of Time and the boulder rolling one both added something notably inventive and successfully formed to a genre with a tendency to veer towards "combine, combine, combine, complete".
Just looking at those two things, it makes you wonder why it gets complained about. I mean, being funny and having good puzzles are the two very things that made the other games so appreciated.
I think the main problem is that it isn't really a monkey island game.
Whenever it strays from being strictly monkey island, you get good gameplay.
Whenever it tries to be monkey island, you get something that is very awkward -
All of guybrush's old crew?
Appearing on monkey island with no real reason?
Horrible story about Herman?
Murray?
The head directors of the game - Sean Clark and Michael Stemmle - are very good aventure game designers, but they just aren't Monkey Island stock. If they had made this game with different characters, and scrapped all the required quota of monkeyislandness, then the game would have been a mighty success. It's good, but it's not MI.
Hey, I like EMI too. So the 3D aged badly, I can live with that. The controls are a little nasty, but once you get used to them they are ok. And sure, 50% of the game are references to previous games and the another 50% are focused on modern american culture, tourism and politics, but the game isn't really bad. It's actually funny, the backgrounds are pretty cool, the characters are interesting and we still have Boen and Armato doing some pretty good voice acting.
If I had to rate it compared to other MI games, I'd say it gets a solid 6.5/10. But the MI bar is kind of high.
But EMI does that, that's what I was trying to say.
Except it doesn't. That's what I was trying to say.
...
Or at least it didn't. I'll replay it to make sure, but I do know I had severe difficulty with that aspect of the controls and was SO GLAD when I noticed in TMI chapter 2 that Telltale had fixed that mistake.
Actually, you can do just about everything with just the num-pad. Control Guybrush, enter inventory, switch between commands, pick up and put away. I think the only command that might not be there is combine items (which would be the Use command - U). It's something that could be learnt by yourself within a couple of minutes in the first scene.
Yeah, except that I have no numpad on my laptop. Big deal that does for me.
Customising the controls I'll have to look into. I didn't know you could do that, but then again I was eleven when I first played it.
It's a strange thing. I think people don't like it, really, because Ron Gilbert wasn't involved. Gamers are sometimes petty.
The game has a metacritic rating of 86. AdventureGamers.com gave it 4 out of 5 stars. The problem is that when you're attached to a series and it makes what seems to be several drastic changes, what you end up with is a bunch of grumpy fans.
You had a traditionally 2D game suddenly thrust into 3D at a time when 3D wasn't as prolific as it is now (Pre-GTA3 by about a year gasp!) You had no Ron Gilbert (which no matter what anyone says certainly didn't put anyone at ease). And then you had Monkey Combat--which was not great.
The rest of the game was. In fact, it was good enough that TellTale games saw fit to bring the co-director Mike Stemmle into the fold and he was one of the designers and script writers for Tales of Monkey Island (in 3D without Ron Gilbert).
The difference is probably time away, more communication, Ron being brought in etc.
But seriously, as much as I love having a rabid fan base for the games that I love (because it means there will be more of them) you need only look at the thread about the new MI2SE to see how complaints are formed. There's an entire thread devoted to the back and forth about how bad the box art is for the new remake.
So, when you hear that an amazingly reviewed adventure game sucks--consider that fans love to deify games--and then remove their god status when their god doesn't do what they want it to.
There's a great David Mamet quote about that--but I'm too lazy to type it up.
Escape is a great adventure title, it's funny, Monkey Kombat sucks a lot. It predicted what Tales would eventually look and feel like honestly and Tales was pretty amazing--and done by some of the same people (the team that did Sam and Max Hit the Road actually).
Put more simply, it's about expectations and entitlement. It's the same reaction people have to EVERY Final Fantasy game. Believe it or not there was HUGE early backlash about Final Fantasy VII going to 3D polygonal looks and abandoning the old style. Here we are 13 years later and half the world seems to think it's the best FF title in the series. Final Fantasy XIII is being reviewed as a great game but everyone feels the need to go, "how dare you call the game Final Fantasy when it's a part of your intellectual property and a part of your artistic vision--only do what we've come to expect!"
Just dig the game if you dig it and if someone tells you a game sucks ask for their copy and save yourself some cash.
The problem with your explanation is CMI is Ron Gilbertless too, and most people think it's supreme.
Except that the Gilbert example, while featured early, wasn't my real point at all.
It's not like this is high school debate where someone has to flow every argument or something. There were other points.
Also, as mentioned, Gilbert came in and talked with the guys about the new game--since they're all friends it's hard to believe that he didn't offer some generous input.
Anyway, it's true that he wasn't there for Curse, but it's also true that a lot of people put Curse behind LCR in terms of quality. I should have acknowledged this (or at least acknowledged that someone would professor me about it instead of considering my other points).
The other points though had nothing to do with Gilbert and I think they still stand.
Aye, which can also be viewed on these very forums by people not wishing to abandon "point-and-click" in favor of WASD/Click&Drag/Gamepad.
Personally I can't care less wheter Gilbert was on board, and I got bored of the game before Monkey Kombat (it was just the drop that made me quit upon playing it). So that would boil down to just the shoddy 3D, right? Well, I am pretty sure I would be able to covercome that, yet I didn't. So more would be at play.
Which in my opinion is horrible control, not really funny dialogue and awkward and total illogical puzzles.
Except that the Gilbert example, while featured early, wasn't my real point at all.
It's not like this is high school debate where someone has to flow every argument or something. There were other points.
Also, as mentioned, Gilbert came in and talked with the guys about the new game--since they're all friends it's hard to believe that he didn't offer some generous input.
Anyway, it's true that he wasn't there for Curse, but it's also true that a lot of people put Curse behind LCR in terms of quality. I should have acknowledged this (or at least acknowledged that someone would professor me about it instead of considering my other points).
The other points though had nothing to do with Gilbert and I think they still stand.
Ahh but the makers of Curse previously worked with Tim Schafer on Full Throttle just a year before production, so, ever so slightly, a chain is there.
Please don't start an "Escape of Monkey Island rehabilitation campaign". It's the worst Monkey Island game, and so it will be forever. It's written too bad. I'll never forgive them for trasforming Guybrush and LeChuck into two idiots!!! Tales showed how to do a 3D Monkey Island, but consistent and with good characters
If you weren't there, imagine the scene: Grim Fandango and Curse of Monkey Island (two of the best games Lucas Arts have made) in '97/'98 have been released, you've been waiting for the next great adventure game. Then you play Escape from Monkey Island in the year 2000 (in the future!) after waiting the 2 years. You're bound to not remember in a good light, even if you believe its not that bad because the other two are so much better than it.
Please don't start an "Escape of Monkey Island rehabilitation campaign". It's the worst Monkey Island game, and so it will be forever. It's written too bad. I'll never forgive them for trasforming Guybrush and LeChuck into two idiots!!! Tales showed how to do a 3D Monkey Island, but consistent and with good characters
Let's be fair, as much as I love the game, it was Curse of Monkey Island that made LeChuck into a bumbling idiot.
Let's be fair, as much as I love the game, it was Curse of Monkey Island that made LeChuck into a bumbling idiot.
But at least he was the main Bad Guy constantly getting his guys to track down Guybrush before dragging him and Elaine back to Monkey Island.
You know, just little things like that which make it better rather than being a side kick for 95% deciding the person he's serving is an idiot and throwing himself into a giant statue, ..only to fall under control of Ozzie again and follow his orders.
But at least he was the main Bad Guy constantly getting his guys to track down Guybrush before dragging him and Elaine back to Monkey Island.
You know, just little things like that which make it better rather than being a side kick for 95% deciding the person he's serving is an idiot and throwing himself into a giant statue, ..only to fall under control of Ozzie again and follow his orders.
He was only serving Ozzie because Ozzie had something that would benefit him, i.e. the ultimate insult being used on Elaine, and barely the second that that plan failed, he immediately turned against him, he wasn't under Ozzie's control at all.And the fact that he'd had that statue built to possess, implies he'd alway had a back-up plan in case working with Ozzie failed (or he may have intended to turn on him, anyway, judging by how fast he did before). He just got unlucky because he obviously was too big-headed to think the insult would work on someone like him.
I think honestly that's a lot smarter than the CMI version where he just let Guybrush walk around and destroy his park without any restraint whatsoever. At least in EMI his stupid move put Guybrush far away.
Obviously, fair enough if you want him to be the main villain, but in my opinion, I prefer him to have more intelligence or cunning about him.
I think honestly that's a lot smarter than the CMI version where he just let Guybrush walk around and destroy his park without any restraint whatsoever. At least in EMI his stupid move put Guybrush far away.
This is where that damn missing cutscene would help again! By that point, LeChuck had already dragged Elaine to the roller coaster and was about to put her on it, that's when Guybrush arrives and a fight breaks out where Elaine quickly kicks LeChuck into one of the cart around the same time a Skeleton throws Guybrush into a cart about to send him to his doom, but of course Elaine switches the controls so the track loops.
We really do need to see that at some point. Anyway, yeah, the only flaw in LeChucks plan at that point was that he didn't know Guybrush knew a cure for the spell, to be fair if Guybrush didn't know the cure, he'd still be a dwarf, stuck outside and LeChuck would of sent Elaine through Big Whoop and in time, sent Guybrush to his death.
I think honestly that's a lot smarter than the CMI version where he just let Guybrush walk around and destroy his park without any restraint whatsoever. At least in EMI his stupid move put Guybrush far away.
How about the LCR version where he just leaves him alone in a torture device, ready to blow up his fortress?
And most people say he's totally evil and not foolish at that point...
How about the LCR version where he just leaves him alone in a torture device, ready to blow up his fortress?
And most people say he's totally evil and not foolish at that point...
what could possble go wrong having tourter room next to dynamite room?
Yeah and LeChuck's not an idiot in Monkey Island 1 when he lets Elaine escape his ship and then Guybrush asks how she says "Oh that's easy. LeChuck's a bozo". It's not real smart to rely on a bunch of guys you had to kill in order to have serve on your crew(Another thing Elaine says in the church). I doubt they'd be really happy to help.
How about the LCR version where he just leaves him alone in a torture device, ready to blow up his fortress?
And most people say he's totally evil and not foolish at that point...
Yeah, I'm not going to argue that's not stupid, but I was just arguing about CMI vs EMI LeChuck. He may not have always been amazingly bright, but he was a much different character in the first two games vs CMI/EMI and even in Tales. He's never really had a consistent personality.
We really do need to see that at some point. Anyway, yeah, the only flaw in LeChucks plan at that point was that he didn't know Guybrush knew a cure for the spell, to be fair if Guybrush didn't know the cure, he'd still be a dwarf, stuck outside and LeChuck would of sent Elaine through Big Whoop and in time, sent Guybrush to his death.
He wouldn't have, because Elaine had already gotten away at that point (she went to 'powder her nose' and never came back), she only stuck around to make sure Guybrush didn't get hurt. He didn't even need to try and save her, she could literally just walk away from LeChuck when she wants to.
The first act of the game is easily the best, imo, so don't get your hopes up.
Don't worry Highway, there's loads more of great stuff to come. I won't say what stuff in particular though, it's just that there is a lot of moments, characters, and locations that I really love in each act.
Looking over the "What would you ask Ron Gilbert" thread, I realized the real reason no one likes EMI...
...no stump joke.
Obviously, all the dislike for Guybrush's Special Edition hair is just a blind for the lack of the stump joke in that version. The only question is what offsets the lack of the stump joke in Tales.
Comments
It went into a killer walrus, according to Tales.
ohh yh monkey island 5 the tusks of lechuck
The other maps are good too, if a little emptier. Melee's is just right.
I also have a special thing for Plunder Island. So pretty.
I actually think we all do. If MI1 and 2 and CMI didn't exist, then the people here complaining about EMI would likely be bigging it up as a cult classic.
Some things good about it
1 - It is funny! I haven't seen anyone complain about that yet, because it is just damned funny.
2 - The puzzles are damned good. I have seen a couple of complaints about them, but I don't really understand that. Mists of Time and the boulder rolling one both added something notably inventive and successfully formed to a genre with a tendency to veer towards "combine, combine, combine, complete".
Just looking at those two things, it makes you wonder why it gets complained about. I mean, being funny and having good puzzles are the two very things that made the other games so appreciated.
I think the main problem is that it isn't really a monkey island game.
Whenever it strays from being strictly monkey island, you get good gameplay.
Whenever it tries to be monkey island, you get something that is very awkward -
All of guybrush's old crew?
Appearing on monkey island with no real reason?
Horrible story about Herman?
Murray?
The head directors of the game - Sean Clark and Michael Stemmle - are very good aventure game designers, but they just aren't Monkey Island stock. If they had made this game with different characters, and scrapped all the required quota of monkeyislandness, then the game would have been a mighty success. It's good, but it's not MI.
If I had to rate it compared to other MI games, I'd say it gets a solid 6.5/10. But the MI bar is kind of high.
Except it doesn't. That's what I was trying to say.
...
Or at least it didn't. I'll replay it to make sure, but I do know I had severe difficulty with that aspect of the controls and was SO GLAD when I noticed in TMI chapter 2 that Telltale had fixed that mistake.
Yeah, except that I have no numpad on my laptop. Big deal that does for me.
Customising the controls I'll have to look into. I didn't know you could do that, but then again I was eleven when I first played it.
The game has a metacritic rating of 86. AdventureGamers.com gave it 4 out of 5 stars. The problem is that when you're attached to a series and it makes what seems to be several drastic changes, what you end up with is a bunch of grumpy fans.
You had a traditionally 2D game suddenly thrust into 3D at a time when 3D wasn't as prolific as it is now (Pre-GTA3 by about a year gasp!) You had no Ron Gilbert (which no matter what anyone says certainly didn't put anyone at ease). And then you had Monkey Combat--which was not great.
The rest of the game was. In fact, it was good enough that TellTale games saw fit to bring the co-director Mike Stemmle into the fold and he was one of the designers and script writers for Tales of Monkey Island (in 3D without Ron Gilbert).
The difference is probably time away, more communication, Ron being brought in etc.
But seriously, as much as I love having a rabid fan base for the games that I love (because it means there will be more of them) you need only look at the thread about the new MI2SE to see how complaints are formed. There's an entire thread devoted to the back and forth about how bad the box art is for the new remake.
So, when you hear that an amazingly reviewed adventure game sucks--consider that fans love to deify games--and then remove their god status when their god doesn't do what they want it to.
There's a great David Mamet quote about that--but I'm too lazy to type it up.
Escape is a great adventure title, it's funny, Monkey Kombat sucks a lot. It predicted what Tales would eventually look and feel like honestly and Tales was pretty amazing--and done by some of the same people (the team that did Sam and Max Hit the Road actually).
Put more simply, it's about expectations and entitlement. It's the same reaction people have to EVERY Final Fantasy game. Believe it or not there was HUGE early backlash about Final Fantasy VII going to 3D polygonal looks and abandoning the old style. Here we are 13 years later and half the world seems to think it's the best FF title in the series. Final Fantasy XIII is being reviewed as a great game but everyone feels the need to go, "how dare you call the game Final Fantasy when it's a part of your intellectual property and a part of your artistic vision--only do what we've come to expect!"
Just dig the game if you dig it and if someone tells you a game sucks ask for their copy and save yourself some cash.
Except that the Gilbert example, while featured early, wasn't my real point at all.
It's not like this is high school debate where someone has to flow every argument or something. There were other points.
Also, as mentioned, Gilbert came in and talked with the guys about the new game--since they're all friends it's hard to believe that he didn't offer some generous input.
Anyway, it's true that he wasn't there for Curse, but it's also true that a lot of people put Curse behind LCR in terms of quality. I should have acknowledged this (or at least acknowledged that someone would professor me about it instead of considering my other points).
The other points though had nothing to do with Gilbert and I think they still stand.
Personally I can't care less wheter Gilbert was on board, and I got bored of the game before Monkey Kombat (it was just the drop that made me quit upon playing it). So that would boil down to just the shoddy 3D, right? Well, I am pretty sure I would be able to covercome that, yet I didn't. So more would be at play.
Which in my opinion is horrible control, not really funny dialogue and awkward and total illogical puzzles.
Ahh but the makers of Curse previously worked with Tim Schafer on Full Throttle just a year before production, so, ever so slightly, a chain is there.
Let's be fair, as much as I love the game, it was Curse of Monkey Island that made LeChuck into a bumbling idiot.
But at least he was the main Bad Guy constantly getting his guys to track down Guybrush before dragging him and Elaine back to Monkey Island.
You know, just little things like that which make it better rather than being a side kick for 95% deciding the person he's serving is an idiot and throwing himself into a giant statue, ..only to fall under control of Ozzie again and follow his orders.
He was only serving Ozzie because Ozzie had something that would benefit him, i.e. the ultimate insult being used on Elaine, and barely the second that that plan failed, he immediately turned against him, he wasn't under Ozzie's control at all.And the fact that he'd had that statue built to possess, implies he'd alway had a back-up plan in case working with Ozzie failed (or he may have intended to turn on him, anyway, judging by how fast he did before). He just got unlucky because he obviously was too big-headed to think the insult would work on someone like him.
I think honestly that's a lot smarter than the CMI version where he just let Guybrush walk around and destroy his park without any restraint whatsoever. At least in EMI his stupid move put Guybrush far away.
Obviously, fair enough if you want him to be the main villain, but in my opinion, I prefer him to have more intelligence or cunning about him.
This is where that damn missing cutscene would help again!
We really do need to see that at some point. Anyway, yeah, the only flaw in LeChucks plan at that point was that he didn't know Guybrush knew a cure for the spell, to be fair if Guybrush didn't know the cure, he'd still be a dwarf, stuck outside and LeChuck would of sent Elaine through Big Whoop and in time, sent Guybrush to his death.
And most people say he's totally evil and not foolish at that point...
what could possble go wrong having tourter room next to dynamite room?
Yeah, I'm not going to argue that's not stupid, but I was just arguing about CMI vs EMI LeChuck. He may not have always been amazingly bright, but he was a much different character in the first two games vs CMI/EMI and even in Tales. He's never really had a consistent personality.
He wouldn't have, because Elaine had already gotten away at that point (she went to 'powder her nose' and never came back), she only stuck around to make sure Guybrush didn't get hurt. He didn't even need to try and save her, she could literally just walk away from LeChuck when she wants to.
That said, I would probably be okay with the game had it been called "Robot Monkey Fun Time 9000" and had nothing to do with MI.
The first act of the game is easily the best, imo, so don't get your hopes up.
but what's this about not having played the first 3 games? You ought to play them in order. I love Secret... ahh, those were the salad days.
Don't worry Highway, there's loads more of great stuff to come. I won't say what stuff in particular though, it's just that there is a lot of moments, characters, and locations that I really love in each act.
...no stump joke.
Obviously, all the dislike for Guybrush's Special Edition hair is just a blind for the lack of the stump joke in that version. The only question is what offsets the lack of the stump joke in Tales.
Hint Line Joke in Dinky Island, it referenced it.
/ashamed