Clem: "Please Kenny let her talk" Kenny: "I'm through talking"
Normally you'd be right but it was obvious the very second he came back in assuming the baby was dead that nothing but Jane's death would satisfy him. I begged him to give Jane a chance to explain herself and he would have none of it. Neither side was right in the moment but Kenny was out for blood the second he thought the baby was dead. "YOU KILLED HIM?" "NO KENNY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT" "BULLSHIT" his rage took over and that is the simple truth.
You can package it as he wasn't trying to kill her until she used the knife or that putting the knife away meant she was just goading him into continuing the fight but that just shows how much you're blind to how Kenny really is.
Whatever it takes to make Kenny the good guy. No matter how things really happened.
I know this has been said to you several times, but a physical fight is not the equivalent of wanting/planning to kill someone. If that were… more the case, then every time 2 people got into an altercation, then they'd be on trial for attempted murder or manslaughter, or some other charge of that nature. It doesn't become a fight to the death until Jane pursues Kenny after slashing his stomach, until she says that "she wants to put this crusty fuck out of his misery". That is when it has escalated, and Kenny realizes that she plans to kill him, so he responds in kind and kills her before she gets the chance to. It is goading him, because it was her intention to have Kenny be shown in the worst light possible, If Kenny didn't attack her like she wanted him to, and she didn't get to play the part of killing Kenny to protect Clem, and subsequently getting to keep Clem, then her ridiculous plan would all be for naught.
Normally you'd be right but it was obvious the very second he came back in assuming the baby was dead that nothing but Jane's death would satisfy him.
There is no reason to assume that though. I mean.. besides him being furious there was nothing to show us he was intent on murdering her.
I begged him to give Jane a chance to explain herself and he would have none of it
Of course hes going to act that way. This by no means stopped Jane from explaining herself. After he calls B.S. on the ridiculously contrived "accident" excuse, Jane threatens him instead of using that time to rationalize with him, or come off as sincere and apologetic. She had an agenda to push.
"YOU KILLED HIM?" "NO KENNY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT" "BULLSHIT" his rage took over and that is the simple truth.
Of course his rage took over. Can you blame him? Any parent/guardian/protector could get that way if they figured someone had murdered their child. This isn't something that is just special to Kenny. It was honestly a natural reaction.
You can package it as he wasn't trying to kill her until she used the knife or that putting the knife away meant she was just goading him into continuing the fight but that just shows how much you're blind to how Kenny really is
There is no reason to believe that he was trying to kill her before she brought lethal force into the fight. None at all. Just because he was physical with her doesn't mean he was trying to kill her. Its just a silly thing to try and equate to, especially when there is no evidence pointing to otherwise. Did you think he was trying to murder Lee on the train back in season one? Because he was being more violent there than he was being with Jane.
Jane goading him into a fight by putting the knife away is kind of the only thing that makes sense.. as Tinni explained. What else would she be trying to do there? Giving up on her plan? Everything would have crashed down on her head at that point. She wanted to fight Kenny. She was banking on it. Her whole plan centered around it. Kenny clearly wasn't going to do anything while she had the knife out, so she put it away.
Not sure why you're calling anyone blind when you're not actually doing much of anything to refute her opinion
Clem: "Please Kenny let her talk" Kenny: "I'm through talking"
Normally you'd be right but it was obvious the very second he came back i… moren assuming the baby was dead that nothing but Jane's death would satisfy him. I begged him to give Jane a chance to explain herself and he would have none of it. Neither side was right in the moment but Kenny was out for blood the second he thought the baby was dead. "YOU KILLED HIM?" "NO KENNY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT" "BULLSHIT" his rage took over and that is the simple truth.
You can package it as he wasn't trying to kill her until she used the knife or that putting the knife away meant she was just goading him into continuing the fight but that just shows how much you're blind to how Kenny really is.
Whatever it takes to make Kenny the good guy. No matter how things really happened.
Yeah... The only thing I see as wrong with her plan is that she didn't just shoot that dumb hick's brains out when she had the chance. Don't tell me that everyone in the group had it wrong and Kenny is some kind of stand up hero. Arvo was a child and disabled, but he had no problems beating him half to death. Everyone in the group knew it. Kenny was a psycho. He needed to be put down, like a rabid dog. He was dead inside. Even if jane did abandon AJ, which I knew she didn't, why does that make it fair game for Kenny to kill her?
It doesn't, and that was her point. Kenny kills human beings for his own personal satisfaction. To satisfy his own sense of justice, without asking any questions, without thinking it through.
Lee would never have allowed Kenny to hurt jane, or Arvo.
Oh yeah, Kenny was SUCH A MONSTER in the endings where you get with him to Wellington...
TIL doing something good completely erases … morethe bad they did.
Is everything that happens in a vaccum? If I shoot someone in the head in cold blood can that be erased if I donate to charity?
A competent defence lawyer would use the arguments other posters have made and there is a good chance Kenny would have gotten off. Especially when it was found out that she manipulated the situation and she was the one that pulled out the knife. A fistfight and a knife fight are two different things. Which is why they have separate categories of 'assault' and 'assault with a deadly weapon'.
And in the real world the judge would totally accept "she manipulated him into killing her"... No wait you don't blame someone for their dea… moreth like that. She made a mistake but she didn't deserve to die. When someone with anger issues kill someone you don't blame the person they killed. Believe it or not but no sane person would accept that. Just because she fought back doesn't mean she wasn't the victim here.
I would have killed Ben if his abandoning of Clem in episode 1.4 to the walkers had gotten her killed. That's essentially what Jane confessed to doing. "I got scared, it was an accident, I didn't mean to leave AJ/Clem behind to be eaten by walkers."
You are just saying that cause you liked Jane better then the baby.
And? Kenny couldnt do this alone either. Clem and AJ was everything he had. What Jane did was stupid, but it's still not excuse for killing a person. I dont gave anyone the right to kill someone just because u are mad at her
You choose to walk away from him when you get to Wellington. If he was unwilling to let you go then he would have said that Clem and him were leaving after they said there was no room.
There is also no evidence that he is unwilling to let you walk away, he may not GIVE you any supplies if you walk away, but he'll always give you that option. He'd probably say something like "if those fuckers want to take off then that's fine with me but I fixed that god damned truck so they aren't getting it."
Thing about Kenny is that while it may be his way or the highway, if you choose to go the high way, he's not going to stop you from taking it.
You can? My bad. I didn't personally play every ending, I was under the impression that Kenny alive meant going to Wellington (that the game… more didn't give you the option of disagreeing with him, only shooting him). Kinda sucks that you can't do so until either him or Jane are dead.
He could actually.
It's called temporary insanity.
A competent defence lawyer would use the arguments other posters have made and ther… moree is a good chance Kenny would have gotten off. Especially when it was found out that she manipulated the situation and she was the one that pulled out the knife. A fistfight and a knife fight are two different things. Which is why they have separate categories of 'assault' and 'assault with a deadly weapon'.
We're just going to have to go our separate ways here. You cant accept
One last little bit
Of course his rage took over. Can you blame him? Any parent/guardian/protector could get that way if they figured someone had murdered their child. This isn't something that is just special to Kenny. It was honestly a natural reaction.
Any parent/guardian/protector who goes off the handle on assumptions should be stripped of that legal guardianship. How is that so hard to understand? Kenny assumes Jane murdered the child. He refuses to even hear Jane out. She had every chance? Bullshit! I've watched the fight several times! SHE HAD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHANCE NONE!!!
I'm not assuming anything! Kenny proves it himself with his own actions!
Normally you'd be right but it was obvious the very second he came back in assuming the baby was dead that nothing but Jane's death would sa… moretisfy him.
There is no reason to assume that though. I mean.. besides him being furious there was nothing to show us he was intent on murdering her.
I begged him to give Jane a chance to explain herself and he would have none of it
Of course hes going to act that way. This by no means stopped Jane from explaining herself. After he calls B.S. on the ridiculously contrived "accident" excuse, Jane threatens him instead of using that time to rationalize with him, or come off as sincere and apologetic. She had an agenda to push.
"YOU KILLED HIM?" "NO KENNY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT" "BULLSHIT" his rage took over and that is the simple truth.
Of course his rage took over. Can you blame him? Any parent/guardian/protector could get that way if they figured someone had murdered their c… [view original content]
Kenny is convinced she got rid of the baby, and that's exactly what such a person would say, so it's not a shocker he doesn't believe that.
… more
Now "The baby is ALIVE, Kenny, I left him in the car, safe and sound !"
Would have triggered an entirely different reaction and you know it. Kenny could find this sudden turn of events dubious, but he'd still want to check, if there was any chance the baby was still alive he'd want to know and hold him in his arms again. He would have rushed to the car immediately.
I would have killed Ben if his abandoning of Clem in episode 1.4 to the walkers had gotten her killed. That's essentially what Jane confesse… mored to doing. "I got scared, it was an accident, I didn't mean to leave AJ/Clem behind to be eaten by walkers."
You are just saying that cause you liked Jane better then the baby.
Yes, he does apologize, confirming that he didn't mean any of the hurtful things he said.
The problem is that when I tell him, that he scared me - he promised that he wouldn't be like that again. That'd he'd control himself. After which he goes completely bonkers again. It's easy to say "I'm sorry, I'll do better", when you then don't actually do better.
As far as Team Bike goes, I really only blame them for their willingness to abandon Clem/Jane.
They had just met Kenny - and he turned out to be a bossy self-centred bully with no redeeming qualities as far as group dynamics and likeability goes. His idea of being a group is "I did something, so now I decide what happens to it", except he would be furious if that applied in general. That would mean that all the supplies they found belong to Jane - since she found them. Their guns probably belong to Clem and Bonnie. Hell the baby potentially belongs to Clem since she saved it from zombie-Rebecca.
That's not how being in a group works - and Kenny should know better. Hell he's been subjected to "leaders" like that before - Lilly in part and Carver in full.
The rage that Kenny feels because of Arvo is understandable.
His rage might be understandable. And had it shown itself in a distrust and dislike it would be perfectly fine. But it showed itself in needless physical violence - his hatred for Arvo overshadowed everything else he might feel about anyone else - specifically this shows after the group enters the house, and Clem is freezing.
Kenny sees Clem is cold and hurt, and since he has no way of alleviating her hurt, he takes his powerlessness out on Arvo. When Clem then, potentially, says: "I'm freezing. Can we just get a fire started?", Kenny looks at her, all sympathetic like, but then instead of actually helping her (aka getting a fire started, getting her warmed up), he wails on Arvo. He's like Batman beating on the Joker in the interrogation scene, impotent and powerless.
It's not really about helping Clem - it's about getting things to line up with how he pictures them. Shit happens, Kenny rages.
he has an acute awareness of all his mistakes
It's easy to be aware of your failings when things have quieted down - the problem is that he never actually remembers these things and tries to do anything about them. Instead he just apologizes (again) after his failings have fucked something up.
The above mentioned things are a quite clear example of Kenny's lack of insight. He doesn't actually remember that he promised Clem to be less fucking scary, instead he starts beating up Arvo - as if that'd help Clem get warm (it might have if it was Clem doing the beating - but nobody really wants that)
He was in the midst of losing his lover again, Clem is the last person her has that is closest to him. Everyone knows we lash out the most a… moret our loved ones, but rarely do we mean it. Yes, he does apologize, confirming that he didn't mean any of the hurtful things he said. That doesn't mean it's ok that he said them in the first place, but it makes it less reprehensible, especially given the fact that he was grieving like any other human would and is angry about losing someone right in front of his eyes yet again.
If members of a group truly care about one another, they don't up and leave each other just because one of the members is acting out of line/pissing them off. They discuss options, they try to compromise and understand each others' points of view, because the want to keep the group together. They sure as hell don't steal all their supplies and the only vehicle, and then leave with the person who shot an eleven year old girl eithe… [view original content]
Yeah... The only thing I see as wrong with her plan is that she didn't just shoot that dumb hick's brains out when she had the chance. Don… more't tell me that everyone in the group had it wrong and Kenny is some kind of stand up hero. Arvo was a child and disabled, but he had no problems beating him half to death. Everyone in the group knew it. Kenny was a psycho. He needed to be put down, like a rabid dog. He was dead inside. Even if jane did abandon AJ, which I knew she didn't, why does that make it fair game for Kenny to kill her?
It doesn't, and that was her point. Kenny kills human beings for his own personal satisfaction. To satisfy his own sense of justice, without asking any questions, without thinking it through.
Lee would never have allowed Kenny to hurt jane, or Arvo.
We won't ever find out. It's not a reality, but a hypothesis. It's not grounded by anything observable.
If Jane hid AJ before getting kil… moreled by Kenny, and AJ was never found by Clem afterwards, then what does that make Jane, given the context of her plan?
I would've loved an ending where you just take off in the car, leaving Kenny to die. So anti-climactic and sooo what I had been pining for the entire season
Wonder what Kenny would to Clem if she'd "accidentally" lost AJ? would've he killed her too? Anyway both Jane and Kenny were wrong and selfish in the end.
Kenny is convinced she got rid of the baby
Yet he has no evidence for this conviction, and he doesn't try to figure out facts or ask… more for a better explanation.
He just - wrongly! - assumes that Jane would murder an infant, and then attacks her.
Slight flaw in your argument: Jane will let you go if you don't want to be with her. You can leave her after the fight (if you shoot Kenny).… more She never demands that you stay by her side. She just wants you away from Kenny. Not to keep you to herself, but to keep you safe from him.
But the whole point of hiding the baby was to convince (an already convince) Clementine that Kenny was a power-keg waiting to explode.
After she had dodged his first attack, she gave him a chance to end to fight - and stated that she wouldn't back down. Right after she had put the knife down and lifted her hand from it, Kenny attacked.
At that point there was no going back. It didn't matter that the baby was alive - even if Kenny had believed her, it would be backing down - something you cannot do with bullies!
And all Jane has to do to stop Kenny from assuming that is to tell him the baby is alive.
Best evidence that you didn't kill someone is t… morehat this someone is still alive, duh.
(Oh and she wouldn't even have to find excuses if she didn't purposely hide the baby in the first place, don't you think ?)
At that point there was no going back. It didn't matter that the baby was alive - even if Kenny had believed her, it would be backing down - something you cannot do with bullies!
I'm pretending a baby you love more than your own life is dead to infuriate you on purpose, I can already see things are going too far and it's obvious this is turning into a fight to the death since I slashed you with my knife, but I can't make things right and tell the truth before one of us will kill the other in front of a young girl because it would be "backing down" from you.
No comment ever qualified as "hurr durr" more than your reply.
(Okay, a lot of comments actually, but your twisted logic comes high on the list)
But the whole point of hiding the baby was to convince (an already convince) Clementine that Kenny was a power-keg waiting to explode.
Af… moreter she had dodged his first attack, she gave him a chance to end to fight - and stated that she wouldn't back down. Right after she had put the knife down and lifted her hand from it, Kenny attacked.
At that point there was no going back. It didn't matter that the baby was alive - even if Kenny had believed her, it would be backing down - something you cannot do with bullies!
Why does Jane have to be the one to stop everything? She gave Kenny the chance to back down, he did not take it.
First off, he wasn't going to believe her anyway.
But given that he would have, Jane is still right in not backing down. Because if she backs down, Clem gets to see that Kenny's way - the 'beat up/kill now, ask questions if it crosses your mind, pretend to be sorry about it without changing your behaviour later' way - is a great way to live. She refuses to back down because she perceives it as her only chance of saving Clem from Kenny.
You can call twisted logic all you want, but Kenny had just as much blame - and he never opened up for the fight to stop. He ran away after being cut, but that wasn't to stop the fight, that was merely to regroup.
At that point there was no going back. It didn't matter that the baby was alive - even if Kenny had believed her, it would be backing down -… more something you cannot do with bullies!
I'm pretending a baby you love more than your own life is dead to infuriate you on purpose, I can already see things are going too far and it's obvious this is turning into a fight to the death since I slashed you with my knife, but I can't make things right and tell the truth before one of us will kill the other in front of a young girl because it would be "backing down" from you.
No comment ever qualified as "hurr durr" more than your reply.
(Okay, a lot of comments actually, but your twisted logic comes high on the list)
Even if Clem is a bitch after chopping off Sarita's hand, then putting an axe into Sarita's skull without saying a word, then Clem gives him shit in the tent, Kenny will still be nice to Clementine in episode 5, and still apologize to her despite all this. So no, he wouldn't try to kill her.
Also you clearly haven't seen Kenny's ending if you think he's selfish.
Wonder what Kenny would to Clem if she'd "accidentally" lost AJ? would've he killed her too? Anyway both Jane and Kenny were wrong and selfish in the end.
and if you leave kenny he knows clementine and A J are saver without him and lets them go. I"M not a kenny fan i hate him but when i saw that i knew jane was uses clementine and kenny truely cares for clementine so my opinion of kenny has gone up a bit
But she's not doing it for the benefit of Clem. She's doing it for the benefit of herself. Kenny has Clem and AJ's best interest in minds an… mored offers to leave Clem and AJ at wellington for their safety. Jane wouldn't do that because she wants/needs to be with Clem to survive mentally.
I think finding out a baby is dead due to a person who has spoken about the baby being a liability, and is already known for leaving people behind to save themselves is cause enough for momentarily forgetting his promise in the heat of the moment. If you have ever been a parent, you would see that his anger/distrust of Jane is justified.
It's not about "finders keepers", it's the fact that Kenny was the only one working on the truck outside, nobody offers to help or assist him in anyway, because they don't believe he can fix it. But the moment he proves them wrong they all of a sudden act as though they played a big part in fixing the truck, and therefore deserve to have input on the truck's destination. In my opinion, if you want to have a say in that, you should at least pull your weight. Bonnie just sat there smoking her cigarette, Mike was obsessing over Arvo, and Jane was watching AJ(though that's a good excuse for her not helping, but he didn't think he could fix it in the first place).
I'm not going to defend Kenny for beating on Arvo, as much as I hate Arvo, him beating him up wasn't helping anything. All I will say is that it definitely looked like Arvo was going to take advantage of the walkers following them by running ahead. You can say he was scared, but after everything he's done, it's not hard to believe that he'd deceive them like that.
The way Kenny operates is in order to make up for his mistakes he does what he can to keep AJ and Clem safe, what surmises a failure for him is not being able to keep his loved ones safe. Kenny does need to work on his anger, but I don't think he considers those outbursts as monumental of mistakes as he does as not being able to save Katjaa, Duck, Sarita, or at one point AJ. He carries all that guilt and anger with him, because he sees it as a sort of penance.
Yes, he does apologize, confirming that he didn't mean any of the hurtful things he said.
The problem is that when I tell him, that … morehe scared me - he promised that he wouldn't be like that again. That'd he'd control himself. After which he goes completely bonkers again. It's easy to say "I'm sorry, I'll do better", when you then don't actually do better.
As far as Team Bike goes, I really only blame them for their willingness to abandon Clem/Jane.
They had just met Kenny - and he turned out to be a bossy self-centred bully with no redeeming qualities as far as group dynamics and likeability goes. His idea of being a group is "I did something, so now I decide what happens to it", except he would be furious if that applied in general. That would mean that all the supplies they found belong to Jane - since she found them. Their guns probably belong to Clem and Bonnie. Hell the baby potentially belongs to Clem since she saved it fro… [view original content]
The problem isn't really whether or not Kenny is justified in his anger - it's how he handles it. He handles is rashly, poorly, and scarily. I can understand why he's angry and even why he is suspicious (he - like many others - don't see that Jane is growing as a person). But going from that, to him being justified in attacking Jane (whether with murderous intent or not) is quite a leap - especially when Kenny has been made aware of this problem of his time and time again.
Also I feel I need to mention in relation to this:
It's not about "finders keepers", it's the fact that Kenny was the only one working on the truck outside, nobody offers to help or assist him in anyway,
That Clem assisted, but when she speaks out against Kenny's plan, he becomes even angrier - and later yells at her for embarrassing him.
I think finding out a baby is dead due to a person who has spoken about the baby being a liability, and is already known for leaving people… more behind to save themselves is cause enough for momentarily forgetting his promise in the heat of the moment. If you have ever been a parent, you would see that his anger/distrust of Jane is justified.
It's not about "finders keepers", it's the fact that Kenny was the only one working on the truck outside, nobody offers to help or assist him in anyway, because they don't believe he can fix it. But the moment he proves them wrong they all of a sudden act as though they played a big part in fixing the truck, and therefore deserve to have input on the truck's destination. In my opinion, if you want to have a say in that, you should at least pull your weight. Bonnie just sat there smoking her cigarette, Mike was obsessing over Arvo, and Jane was watching AJ(though that's a good excuse for her not helping, … [view original content]
Why does Jane have to be the one to stop everything?
Uhm, because she started the whole situation? Jane is willing to get Kenny killed, this is obvious when she asks Clem to leave Kenny behind after he got out of the car. And when she hides AJ and pretends that he is dead, she knows that this will enrage Kenny. She can't possibly assume that Kenny would simply leave Clementine with her, knowing that Kenny would believe that she got AJ killed. It's her plan, it's her setup and that makes it her fault.
Why does Jane have to be the one to stop everything? She gave Kenny the chance to back down, he did not take it.
First off, he wasn't goi… moreng to believe her anyway.
But given that he would have, Jane is still right in not backing down. Because if she backs down, Clem gets to see that Kenny's way - the 'beat up/kill now, ask questions if it crosses your mind, pretend to be sorry about it without changing your behaviour later' way - is a great way to live. She refuses to back down because she perceives it as her only chance of saving Clem from Kenny.
You can call twisted logic all you want, but Kenny had just as much blame - and he never opened up for the fight to stop. He ran away after being cut, but that wasn't to stop the fight, that was merely to regroup.
If I'm not mistaken Jane says something "not happening" if you tell her to back off. Kenny saying "he's through talking", means just that, he's done hearing bullshit, not "I'm going to kill you". And that's exactly what Jane was doing, she was bullshitting him. The minute she walks into the rest stop, Kenny asks her if she's ok before asking where AJ was, she purposely adopts this stricken/forlorn look and trails off "he.." Kenny asks for clarification("what are you saying?) Jane purposely stays quiet so Kenny will draw to the conclusion that AJ is dead, but Jane's facade falters momentarily when she makes eye contact with Clem. As soon as Kenny runs out to look for AJ, Jane immediately rights herself from her fake huddled/defeated stance, and all signs of the sadness she displayed earlier are gone. She was faking it the whole time, if you don't see how manipulative that is then it can be said that you're blind to how Jane really is. She then specifically tells Clem to stay out of it, that she's going to see what Kenny really is. Her plan was to provoke Kenny to attack her, and then get rid of him. It is blatantly clear that because she was the one who brought her knife out, slashed his stomach, attempted to slash his face and body before he grabbed her arm, and gouged out his bad eye with her fingers, she intended to kill him. Kenny didn't start saying "I'm going to fucking kill you", until after Jane followed him outside and said "I'm going to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery". Kenny may have started the physical fight, but Jane started the fight to the death.
Clem: "Please Kenny let her talk" Kenny: "I'm through talking"
Normally you'd be right but it was obvious the very second he came back i… moren assuming the baby was dead that nothing but Jane's death would satisfy him. I begged him to give Jane a chance to explain herself and he would have none of it. Neither side was right in the moment but Kenny was out for blood the second he thought the baby was dead. "YOU KILLED HIM?" "NO KENNY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT" "BULLSHIT" his rage took over and that is the simple truth.
You can package it as he wasn't trying to kill her until she used the knife or that putting the knife away meant she was just goading him into continuing the fight but that just shows how much you're blind to how Kenny really is.
Whatever it takes to make Kenny the good guy. No matter how things really happened.
Yes she did, when Kenny asks her "what are you saying?", she could have explained herself, but instead she stays quiet. That silence gave off the vibe that she was hiding something, and she was, just not what Kenny initially thought. Her true intentions aren't revealed until AJ cries out from the car he was left in alone. She also had the chance to clarify when Kenny retreated outside, but instead she gives him a death threat and tries to stab and slash at him once more.
Constantly saying "[you're] done", that you can't take anyone's posts that don't agree with you seriously, that said posters are blind, being rude, or that those that oppose your position "can't accept it" doesn't prove your point, nor does it give your side of the argument any validation or substantial support.
I'm done
We're just going to have to go our separate ways here. You cant accept
One last little bit
Of course his rage took ove… morer. Can you blame him? Any parent/guardian/protector could get that way if they figured someone had murdered their child. This isn't something that is just special to Kenny. It was honestly a natural reaction.
Any parent/guardian/protector who goes off the handle on assumptions should be stripped of that legal guardianship. How is that so hard to understand? Kenny assumes Jane murdered the child. He refuses to even hear Jane out. She had every chance? Bullshit! I've watched the fight several times! SHE HAD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHANCE NONE!!!
I'm not assuming anything! Kenny proves it himself with his own actions!
Yes she did, when Kenny asks her "what are you saying?", she could have explained herself, but instead she stays quiet. That silence gave of… moref the vibe that she was hiding something, and she was, just not what Kenny initially thought. Her true intentions aren't revealed until AJ cries out from the car he was left in alone. She also had the chance to clarify when Kenny retreated outside, but instead she gives him a death threat and tries to stab and slash at him once more.
Constantly saying "[you're] done", that you can't take anyone's posts that don't agree with you seriously, that said posters are blind, being rude, or that those that oppose your position "can't accept it" doesn't prove your point, nor does it give your side of the argument any validation or substantial support.
How all of this isn't completely obvious to everyone is beyond me. Hell lets go back to the start of the episode after the firefight. Kenny pulls his fucking gun on Mike and Bonnie for trying to stop him from beating Arvo up. The signs were all there from the word go. Must be hard being Kenny. Constantly getting away with murder because his fans love him so much.
"I think you forgot that he attacked her first." Definitely not.
Kenny: How could you kill a FUCKING CHILD?!
Jane: I didin't k… moreill him! It was an ACCIDENT, Kenny.
Kenny: BULLSHIT!
Jane: I won't back down from you, Kenny.
Kenny: SHUT UP!
Jane: I'm warning you.
Clementine: Kenny let her talk!
Kenny: I'm done talkin', Clem.
Jane: Clem! stay back.
..And after that she put her knife back in its holster, and Kenny pushes her against the glass door. so, Yeah! He definitely attacked her first.
All Kenny dialogs make it clear that he wasn't interested in talking anymore. he had already decided the fact that Jane left AJ to die. and so he would kill her.
She was trying to paint Kenny in a bad light for Clem.
Nope. she was trying to show to Clem that Kenny was already a bad painting. and not only Jane warned that. all the people in the group at some point expressed concerns with the explosive behav… [view original content]
Comments
Clem: "Please Kenny let her talk" Kenny: "I'm through talking"
Normally you'd be right but it was obvious the very second he came back in assuming the baby was dead that nothing but Jane's death would satisfy him. I begged him to give Jane a chance to explain herself and he would have none of it. Neither side was right in the moment but Kenny was out for blood the second he thought the baby was dead. "YOU KILLED HIM?" "NO KENNY IT WAS AN ACCIDENT" "BULLSHIT" his rage took over and that is the simple truth.
You can package it as he wasn't trying to kill her until she used the knife or that putting the knife away meant she was just goading him into continuing the fight but that just shows how much you're blind to how Kenny really is.
Whatever it takes to make Kenny the good guy. No matter how things really happened.
There is no reason to assume that though. I mean.. besides him being furious there was nothing to show us he was intent on murdering her.
Of course hes going to act that way. This by no means stopped Jane from explaining herself. After he calls B.S. on the ridiculously contrived "accident" excuse, Jane threatens him instead of using that time to rationalize with him, or come off as sincere and apologetic. She had an agenda to push.
Of course his rage took over. Can you blame him? Any parent/guardian/protector could get that way if they figured someone had murdered their child. This isn't something that is just special to Kenny. It was honestly a natural reaction.
There is no reason to believe that he was trying to kill her before she brought lethal force into the fight. None at all. Just because he was physical with her doesn't mean he was trying to kill her. Its just a silly thing to try and equate to, especially when there is no evidence pointing to otherwise. Did you think he was trying to murder Lee on the train back in season one? Because he was being more violent there than he was being with Jane.
Jane goading him into a fight by putting the knife away is kind of the only thing that makes sense.. as Tinni explained. What else would she be trying to do there? Giving up on her plan? Everything would have crashed down on her head at that point. She wanted to fight Kenny. She was banking on it. Her whole plan centered around it. Kenny clearly wasn't going to do anything while she had the knife out, so she put it away.
Not sure why you're calling anyone blind when you're not actually doing much of anything to refute her opinion
Yeah... The only thing I see as wrong with her plan is that she didn't just shoot that dumb hick's brains out when she had the chance. Don't tell me that everyone in the group had it wrong and Kenny is some kind of stand up hero. Arvo was a child and disabled, but he had no problems beating him half to death. Everyone in the group knew it. Kenny was a psycho. He needed to be put down, like a rabid dog. He was dead inside. Even if jane did abandon AJ, which I knew she didn't, why does that make it fair game for Kenny to kill her?
It doesn't, and that was her point. Kenny kills human beings for his own personal satisfaction. To satisfy his own sense of justice, without asking any questions, without thinking it through.
Lee would never have allowed Kenny to hurt jane, or Arvo.
By that reasoning, nothing Lee ever did in game 1 was of any value because he killed his wife for cheating on him.
If I'm going for a reason to kill someone, I think I would go after the alleged baby killer, not the adulteress.
Seriously though, there was no murder here. It was a fight, they were BOTH trying to kill each other. Kenny won. The end.
He could actually.
It's called temporary insanity.
A competent defence lawyer would use the arguments other posters have made and there is a good chance Kenny would have gotten off. Especially when it was found out that she manipulated the situation and she was the one that pulled out the knife. A fistfight and a knife fight are two different things. Which is why they have separate categories of 'assault' and 'assault with a deadly weapon'.
I would have killed Ben if his abandoning of Clem in episode 1.4 to the walkers had gotten her killed. That's essentially what Jane confessed to doing. "I got scared, it was an accident, I didn't mean to leave AJ/Clem behind to be eaten by walkers."
You are just saying that cause you liked Jane better then the baby.
You choose to walk away from him when you get to Wellington. If he was unwilling to let you go then he would have said that Clem and him were leaving after they said there was no room.
There is also no evidence that he is unwilling to let you walk away, he may not GIVE you any supplies if you walk away, but he'll always give you that option. He'd probably say something like "if those fuckers want to take off then that's fine with me but I fixed that god damned truck so they aren't getting it."
Thing about Kenny is that while it may be his way or the highway, if you choose to go the high way, he's not going to stop you from taking it.
Funny. He's been "temporarily insane" since the start of season 1.
I'm done
We're just going to have to go our separate ways here. You cant accept
One last little bit
Any parent/guardian/protector who goes off the handle on assumptions should be stripped of that legal guardianship. How is that so hard to understand? Kenny assumes Jane murdered the child. He refuses to even hear Jane out. She had every chance? Bullshit! I've watched the fight several times! SHE HAD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHANCE NONE!!!
I'm not assuming anything! Kenny proves it himself with his own actions!
Which means you know that judges DO accept that kind of argument. Glad we agree.
Yet he has no evidence for this conviction, and he doesn't try to figure out facts or ask for a better explanation.
He just - wrongly! - assumes that Jane would murder an infant, and then attacks her.
Except there's a difference between abandoning someone, and accidentally losing them.
The problem is that when I tell him, that he scared me - he promised that he wouldn't be like that again. That'd he'd control himself. After which he goes completely bonkers again. It's easy to say "I'm sorry, I'll do better", when you then don't actually do better.
As far as Team Bike goes, I really only blame them for their willingness to abandon Clem/Jane.
They had just met Kenny - and he turned out to be a bossy self-centred bully with no redeeming qualities as far as group dynamics and likeability goes. His idea of being a group is "I did something, so now I decide what happens to it", except he would be furious if that applied in general. That would mean that all the supplies they found belong to Jane - since she found them. Their guns probably belong to Clem and Bonnie. Hell the baby potentially belongs to Clem since she saved it from zombie-Rebecca.
That's not how being in a group works - and Kenny should know better. Hell he's been subjected to "leaders" like that before - Lilly in part and Carver in full.
His rage might be understandable. And had it shown itself in a distrust and dislike it would be perfectly fine. But it showed itself in needless physical violence - his hatred for Arvo overshadowed everything else he might feel about anyone else - specifically this shows after the group enters the house, and Clem is freezing.
Kenny sees Clem is cold and hurt, and since he has no way of alleviating her hurt, he takes his powerlessness out on Arvo. When Clem then, potentially, says: "I'm freezing. Can we just get a fire started?", Kenny looks at her, all sympathetic like, but then instead of actually helping her (aka getting a fire started, getting her warmed up), he wails on Arvo. He's like Batman beating on the Joker in the interrogation scene, impotent and powerless.
It's not really about helping Clem - it's about getting things to line up with how he pictures them. Shit happens, Kenny rages.
It's easy to be aware of your failings when things have quieted down - the problem is that he never actually remembers these things and tries to do anything about them. Instead he just apologizes (again) after his failings have fucked something up.
The above mentioned things are a quite clear example of Kenny's lack of insight. He doesn't actually remember that he promised Clem to be less fucking scary, instead he starts beating up Arvo - as if that'd help Clem get warm (it might have if it was Clem doing the beating - but nobody really wants that)
You Kenny fans are as much blinded as Kenny is.
That's pretty much it yeah. And Clem becoming a better person for it as well
I admire you're guts. Around here saying bad things about Kenny is like suicide.
Because its Kenny and if you go against Kenny you're automatically the villain.
A stupid bastard, and that's what she really is.
That man would (and somewhat did) die for that baby, stfu.
Now someone who has no counter-argument would say exactly just that
It was a cheap trick to get both characters killed no doubt about, I mean really, that was the best they could come up with?
I mean would he care about taking Clem to Wellington. Oh and nice "stfu" you idiot.
.
I would've loved an ending where you just take off in the car, leaving Kenny to die. So anti-climactic and sooo what I had been pining for the entire season
Wonder what Kenny would to Clem if she'd "accidentally" lost AJ? would've he killed her too? Anyway both Jane and Kenny were wrong and selfish in the end.
And all Jane has to do to stop Kenny from assuming that is to tell him the baby is alive.
Best evidence that you didn't kill someone is that this someone is still alive, duh.
(Oh and she wouldn't even have to find excuses if she didn't purposely hide the baby in the first place, don't you think ?)
Oh, thank her so much indeed for being so generous not to stop us from leaving her at gunpoint !!!
But the whole point of hiding the baby was to convince (an already convince) Clementine that Kenny was a power-keg waiting to explode.
After she had dodged his first attack, she gave him a chance to end to fight - and stated that she wouldn't back down. Right after she had put the knife down and lifted her hand from it, Kenny attacked.
At that point there was no going back. It didn't matter that the baby was alive - even if Kenny had believed her, it would be backing down - something you cannot do with bullies!
I'm pretending a baby you love more than your own life is dead to infuriate you on purpose, I can already see things are going too far and it's obvious this is turning into a fight to the death since I slashed you with my knife, but I can't make things right and tell the truth before one of us will kill the other in front of a young girl because it would be "backing down" from you.
No comment ever qualified as "hurr durr" more than your reply.
(Okay, a lot of comments actually, but your twisted logic comes high on the list)
Why does Jane have to be the one to stop everything? She gave Kenny the chance to back down, he did not take it.
First off, he wasn't going to believe her anyway.
But given that he would have, Jane is still right in not backing down. Because if she backs down, Clem gets to see that Kenny's way - the 'beat up/kill now, ask questions if it crosses your mind, pretend to be sorry about it without changing your behaviour later' way - is a great way to live. She refuses to back down because she perceives it as her only chance of saving Clem from Kenny.
You can call twisted logic all you want, but Kenny had just as much blame - and he never opened up for the fight to stop. He ran away after being cut, but that wasn't to stop the fight, that was merely to regroup.
Even if Clem is a bitch after chopping off Sarita's hand, then putting an axe into Sarita's skull without saying a word, then Clem gives him shit in the tent, Kenny will still be nice to Clementine in episode 5, and still apologize to her despite all this. So no, he wouldn't try to kill her.
Also you clearly haven't seen Kenny's ending if you think he's selfish.
Stahp
You suck.
JK.
and if you leave kenny he knows clementine and A J are saver without him and lets them go. I"M not a kenny fan i hate him but when i saw that i knew jane was uses clementine and kenny truely cares for clementine so my opinion of kenny has gone up a bit
I think finding out a baby is dead due to a person who has spoken about the baby being a liability, and is already known for leaving people behind to save themselves is cause enough for momentarily forgetting his promise in the heat of the moment. If you have ever been a parent, you would see that his anger/distrust of Jane is justified.
It's not about "finders keepers", it's the fact that Kenny was the only one working on the truck outside, nobody offers to help or assist him in anyway, because they don't believe he can fix it. But the moment he proves them wrong they all of a sudden act as though they played a big part in fixing the truck, and therefore deserve to have input on the truck's destination. In my opinion, if you want to have a say in that, you should at least pull your weight. Bonnie just sat there smoking her cigarette, Mike was obsessing over Arvo, and Jane was watching AJ(though that's a good excuse for her not helping, but he didn't think he could fix it in the first place).
I'm not going to defend Kenny for beating on Arvo, as much as I hate Arvo, him beating him up wasn't helping anything. All I will say is that it definitely looked like Arvo was going to take advantage of the walkers following them by running ahead. You can say he was scared, but after everything he's done, it's not hard to believe that he'd deceive them like that.
The way Kenny operates is in order to make up for his mistakes he does what he can to keep AJ and Clem safe, what surmises a failure for him is not being able to keep his loved ones safe. Kenny does need to work on his anger, but I don't think he considers those outbursts as monumental of mistakes as he does as not being able to save Katjaa, Duck, Sarita, or at one point AJ. He carries all that guilt and anger with him, because he sees it as a sort of penance.
The problem isn't really whether or not Kenny is justified in his anger - it's how he handles it. He handles is rashly, poorly, and scarily. I can understand why he's angry and even why he is suspicious (he - like many others - don't see that Jane is growing as a person). But going from that, to him being justified in attacking Jane (whether with murderous intent or not) is quite a leap - especially when Kenny has been made aware of this problem of his time and time again.
Also I feel I need to mention in relation to this:
That Clem assisted, but when she speaks out against Kenny's plan, he becomes even angrier - and later yells at her for embarrassing him.
Uhm, because she started the whole situation? Jane is willing to get Kenny killed, this is obvious when she asks Clem to leave Kenny behind after he got out of the car. And when she hides AJ and pretends that he is dead, she knows that this will enrage Kenny. She can't possibly assume that Kenny would simply leave Clementine with her, knowing that Kenny would believe that she got AJ killed. It's her plan, it's her setup and that makes it her fault.
If I'm not mistaken Jane says something "not happening" if you tell her to back off. Kenny saying "he's through talking", means just that, he's done hearing bullshit, not "I'm going to kill you". And that's exactly what Jane was doing, she was bullshitting him. The minute she walks into the rest stop, Kenny asks her if she's ok before asking where AJ was, she purposely adopts this stricken/forlorn look and trails off "he.." Kenny asks for clarification("what are you saying?) Jane purposely stays quiet so Kenny will draw to the conclusion that AJ is dead, but Jane's facade falters momentarily when she makes eye contact with Clem. As soon as Kenny runs out to look for AJ, Jane immediately rights herself from her fake huddled/defeated stance, and all signs of the sadness she displayed earlier are gone. She was faking it the whole time, if you don't see how manipulative that is then it can be said that you're blind to how Jane really is. She then specifically tells Clem to stay out of it, that she's going to see what Kenny really is. Her plan was to provoke Kenny to attack her, and then get rid of him. It is blatantly clear that because she was the one who brought her knife out, slashed his stomach, attempted to slash his face and body before he grabbed her arm, and gouged out his bad eye with her fingers, she intended to kill him. Kenny didn't start saying "I'm going to fucking kill you", until after Jane followed him outside and said "I'm going to put this crusty piece of shit out of his misery". Kenny may have started the physical fight, but Jane started the fight to the death.
Yes she did, when Kenny asks her "what are you saying?", she could have explained herself, but instead she stays quiet. That silence gave off the vibe that she was hiding something, and she was, just not what Kenny initially thought. Her true intentions aren't revealed until AJ cries out from the car he was left in alone. She also had the chance to clarify when Kenny retreated outside, but instead she gives him a death threat and tries to stab and slash at him once more.
Constantly saying "[you're] done", that you can't take anyone's posts that don't agree with you seriously, that said posters are blind, being rude, or that those that oppose your position "can't accept it" doesn't prove your point, nor does it give your side of the argument any validation or substantial support.
No... You're not goading me back into this. I said my bit.
How all of this isn't completely obvious to everyone is beyond me. Hell lets go back to the start of the episode after the firefight. Kenny pulls his fucking gun on Mike and Bonnie for trying to stop him from beating Arvo up. The signs were all there from the word go. Must be hard being Kenny. Constantly getting away with murder because his fans love him so much.