I really do laugh at the Kenny haters that like every anti Kenny post on here. You sure have a great little gang here. Keep clicking that like button folks
and what are the goods? xD well i know she skilled with survival but i cant find any positives. i mean the one time she looked trusting and kind to someone like that guy with the ak she shot him in the nuts and let him get eaten xD and with luke she fucked him and ran off xD
Of course there are! There are negatives about everyone! She manipulates people, she doesn't trust herself let alone anyone else, she's over… morely protective, she decides very quickly who she does and doesn't like, she lacks self confidence, to name some.
yeah i guess we are in a 2 side situation once you pick a character to kill off you can only find the goods of the character you let live and the bads of the other character. to be honest i wanted to kill both characters for hurting clemmy cloo but kenny was in since season 1 so i didnt want a character like that killed off so early but i didnt want him going around having a tantrum all the time xD which is why i liked the ending where i can kill off jane and have kenny go away and be someone elses problem but he can also have that one bag of supplies to survive. whilst clem and AJ can go be safe behind the solid walls of wellington.
I think you make some good counterpoints too, and I see either opinion on the whole Jane or Kenny situation. I see how someone could choose Kenny over Jane, but I can't. I respect your opinion about Kenny.
yeah sure but kenny is basically more major considering he has been in the game since season 1 episode 1. so we've been able to feel attached to the character. i couldnt feel attached to jane she was waaaay too cold.
If there was one thing that I think they did good in Season 2, it was helping the player develop opinions on both Jane and Kenny and have them make the choice between who lives and who dies on who they liked more. I felt that any thread I went on about this decision, it seemed like it was a 50/50 split between the fans. If they did that writing more often in Season 2, I would have enjoyed it a lot more.
yeah i guess we are in a 2 side situation once you pick a character to kill off you can only find the goods of the character you let live an… mored the bads of the other character. to be honest i wanted to kill both characters for hurting clemmy cloo but kenny was in since season 1 so i didnt want a character like that killed off so early but i didnt want him going around having a tantrum all the time xD which is why i liked the ending where i can kill off jane and have kenny go away and be someone elses problem but he can also have that one bag of supplies to survive. whilst clem and AJ can go be safe behind the solid walls of wellington.
I didn't hate Kenny but I thought he needed to go. He was too stubborn, impulsive, and volatile. He was the kind of character who would fumble around in the dark while he had a perfectly good flashlight in his hand and he would only turn it on after walking face first into a wall. There was no "think before you act" in him. I saw him as a liability from the moment he let his bravado risk the lives of the hostages at the ski lodge.
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offense if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with the tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority.
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
Even after taking a vote, Kenny thinks he knows better than the rest of them, saying, "I don't give two shits about what you people think." (In my case, Kenny doesn't give two shits about what Clementine thinks here either.) "I got this truck workin', so I say where we go, and we're headin' fuckin' north."
And he ends the conversation by slamming the car door and cursing, like an immature toddler:
Yeah, really great leadership skills.
Kenny is like an Uncle who's mad at the world but has a heart of gold for his people, and when they need it the most he comes through.
The problem though is if you're not "his people" then you're basically part of that "world" that he's mad at, meaning you're basically fucked. Jane, Mike, Bonnie, Arvo? They all disagreed with Kenny in significant situations and they were obviously not "his people." And given how many times I've disagreed with him, I know I'm not one of "his people" either, so I know that Kenny would fuck me over, even if I wanted his help. Kenny's proven this in season 1, when he basically refused to help me look for Clem unless I agreed with him on nearly every decision, and he's proven it throughout season 2, when he didn't listen to anything I had to say, to the point that he beats up a defenseless kid to near-death and he nearly kills a woman unless I shoot him. That's how far he goes--he literally won't listen to you unless you fricking shoot him. How exactly is that a mark of a good leader? Good God, he even says it himself:
"Tell you what, we can turn around just as soon as you pry this wheel from my cold, dead fingers." If you disagree with him, if you don't want to go the way he wants you to go, you have to kill him. And that's LITERALLY what the end of the season boiled down to.
People follow leaders because they have seemingly definite answers, as though it Goes from God to the Leader to You and me. They can't appear wishy-washy, can't reveal their thinking...If they blurt every thought or plan out as they're thinking, then others realize he doesn't know what to do any more than the rest of us...he's just weighing the options like the rest of us.
What on earth are you talking about? How on earth is Kenny a good leader? He's a terrible leader, as he has terrible ideas that would get everyone killed, unless someone interferes. In the beginning of "In Harm's Way," when they're in the back of Carver's truck, he wants to fight a bunch of people armed with guns with his bare hands, when he has two children he's supposed to be protecting! If Kenny had succeeded, Carver would've probably beat Kenny to death (or Carver would've just gunned Kenny down, more likely) right there and then in that truck. Then near the end of "In Harm's Way," he dilly-dallies around Howe's, unnecessarily beating Carver's face in when he could've just shot Carver in the head; otherwise Kenny was just taking away from their valuable escape time. (How exactly was Kenny helping things when he was wasting time bashing Carver's face in? Shouldn't he be more concerned getting the two kids in his group to safety?) Also in "In Harm's Way," his "plan" to get through the herd is to "improvise." And as Mike rightly points out:
"Then that's not a plan. You don't plan to improvise." Rebecca continues, echoing exactly how I feel: "I figured out what your problem is: you don't think this stuff through."
And he wasn't just "weighing the options" like you claim. In the back of that truck, he really was going to try to punch an armed Carver, and the only thing that stopped him from getting himself killed (and probably getting the others injured as well) was when he got knocked out by the truck.
His emotional reactive personality is put through the ringer, and Jane was a promiscuous goth chick with manipulative tendencies. She admitted to only looking out for number 1...which makes any other people she encounters disposable pawns in her game. She can use people and if they die, kill each other, are eaten by Zombies, separated and trapped somewhere...she doesn't have empathy, just apathy. After everything Kenny went through and lost, her careless self-serving conniving bitchiness appeared to Kenny as a threat to the well-being and safety of the group.
Hahaha, well oh boyyyy.
Jane's not perfect, and I certainly don't agree with everything she's done in the game. Her attitude towards Sarah in the beginning and the hiding-baby plan for example, I wasn't a fan of. However although Jane's mentality may have been to stay apart from the group and to look out for herself at first, she clearly changes her mind on things, and she's clearly trying to change her mentality as well. E.g. if she's trying so hard to break the group apart like you claim, then why does this happen:
When Mike and Kenny are fighting off screen about Arvo, Jane goes over and talks the two of them down, dispelling the argument. Jane's the one keeping the peace in this situation, not Kenny.
If Jane really cares so little about others, why does Jane herself choose to go save Sarah at the observation deck if you don't say anything, and let the timer run out?
Why does she choose to let Arvo keep his medicine if you let the timer run out as well? She could've easily just kept it.
Why does she let the family in at Howe's, if you let the timer run out? She could've just as easily told them to leave.
Whether you agree with what Jane does in these three scenarios or not, the fact that she opts for the option to help others shows that she really is changing.
Imagine-------if she came and gone, Would the group have split/crumbled? Would they have lost their allegiance to each other because she made them paranoid by questioning another group members' behavior? Or would the group have stayed together without that festering impish trollop?
Where exactly are you getting all of this from? The S2 group was never "strong" even before Jane joined it--Kenny and Luke were always going at each other's necks over the smallest things; Bonnie and Mike were always waiting around for Kenny/Luke to make a plan and tell them what to do; the Cabin Group never seemed to trust Kenny in general. Rebecca was already pregnant, and still would've needed medical attention/a safe place to have her baby, whether Jane was there or not. What does any of this have to do with Jane? She happens to point out that Kenny is going through some shit and they have to be careful around him--which is what everyone says, even without Jane's input.
E.g. Before Jane ever says one word about Kenny in the game, Bonnie and Mike say:
Kenny alienates himself in the group with his brash and violent behavior; the others just point it out. If Jane had never come back but Kenny had continued to beat Arvo as he did, then yes, Mike and Bonnie and Arvo still would have left Kenny behind.
P.S. You tell any American over 40 that a baby is missing, and they're going to freak/be on high alert.
Well duh, but if you tell most people that a baby is missing, the first thing that'll come out of their mouths is, "What happened to the baby? Where were you last with them?" And then they'd actually ask for an explanation from Jane, and listen. Kenny didn't even give Jane a chance to talk.
I liked Kenny, as a Southerner myself..I guess he just reminded me of a relative. When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with th… moree tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority. Kenny is like an Uncle who's mad at the world but has a heart of gold for his people, and when they need it the most he comes through. His Heart was in the right place but leadership(getting others to listen and commit to the gameplan) doesn't work so well when you wear your Heart on your Sleeve(thoughts/feelings/emotions openly visible for all to see). People follow leaders because they have seemingly definite answers, as though it Goes from God to the Leader to You and me. They can't appear wishy-washy, can't reveal their thinking...If they blurt every thought or plan out as they're thinking, then others realize he doesn't know what to do any more than the rest of us...he's just weighin… [view original content]
He's played a larger part but we mustn't forget that it was thanks to Jane that everyone found a way to escape Howe's and it was thanks to Jane that they had shelter from the cold and Walkers and it was thanks to Jane that Kenny lived at the beginning of Episode 5, he may have been around for longer but whether he's a more major character at this point is subjective. I personally felt attached to Jane cause I understand being an introvert, what I like about her the most is how she can develop as a character thanks to Clementine. I felt attached to Kenny too and I've forgiven some of the things he's done but it's hard to continue to feel attached to a character who makes you feel angry every few seconds after a genuine apology because he ends up doing something rude to someone else
yeah sure but kenny is basically more major considering he has been in the game since season 1 episode 1. so we've been able to feel attached to the character. i couldnt feel attached to jane she was waaaay too cold.
You have an issue with people liking posts they agree with or do you think people are just trying to acquire likes? This forum is not filled with rival gangs, just people with different opinions, and I only like posts I have some agreement with. Isnt that what the like button is for?
I really do laugh at the Kenny haters that like every anti Kenny post on here. You sure have a great little gang here. Keep clicking that like button folks
In my opinion a lot of the hate has to do with Kenny's morals and the haters feel anger at how Kenny behaved. I have a feeling his critics are either thinking about these controversial moments in their head, or replaying the game, which makes their hate get stronger and stronger over time. A lot of people kinda accept that Kenny wasn't always a morally good character but was still one of the most entertaining characters in the game. If anyone can't see that then they can't really enjoy and get the full experience of either season 1 or 2.
Hating morally grey characters and characters like Kenny has been a major problem amongst modern day Americans imo. I've seen it happen in other shows too. Often leads to crazy opinions like characters like Luke and Omid being better characters than Kenny. Lmao.
That's how it is now, but it wasn't like that before. There was a point when the people that liked Kenny on here definitely outnumbered the people that didn't.
Maybe this feels like more of a safe place to express that opinion. I sure as heck avoid YouTube comments and other places where you get shouted down for not going with the popular choice. There are not too many forums as well regulated as this one is.
My point is, it's filled with the haters, hardly any pro Kenny on here anymore. A lot on Youtube and places like that though. Honestly somet… moreimes i wish any Kenny topics would get banned because we all always end up arguing. Who'd have thought Telltale could create such split down the middle type character?
I agree that people, because of this rivalry, dont give Jane enough credit. She did a lot to help the group in spite of her tendency to not want to get too close, which is a perfectly valid way to feel. She is the exact opposite of Kenny, but that doesnt make her worse.
He's played a larger part but we mustn't forget that it was thanks to Jane that everyone found a way to escape Howe's and it was thanks to J… moreane that they had shelter from the cold and Walkers and it was thanks to Jane that Kenny lived at the beginning of Episode 5, he may have been around for longer but whether he's a more major character at this point is subjective. I personally felt attached to Jane cause I understand being an introvert, what I like about her the most is how she can develop as a character thanks to Clementine. I felt attached to Kenny too and I've forgiven some of the things he's done but it's hard to continue to feel attached to a character who makes you feel angry every few seconds after a genuine apology because he ends up doing something rude to someone else
I know what you mean. It was so heated in the first few months I figured it would have died out already. People just can't accept that people disagree with them.
I identified with Jane, other people identified with Kenny - both are fine - we all have our reasons. Let it go, people...
"People follow leaders because they have seemingly definite answers, as though it Goes from God to the Leader to You and me. They can't appear wishy-washy, can't reveal their thinking...If they blurt every thought or plan out as they're thinking, then others realize he doesn't know what to do any more than the rest of us...he's just weighing the options like the rest of us."
I think Kenny had some good leadership skills, but the strain of being a leader was to much for him.
And though he often had good intentions, he let his temper get the best of him.
And let's not forget that he went through some heartwrenching losses in both games, so that certainly didn't help things.
The reason why people looked up to Lee, is because Lee was able to keep a cool head when things were hot.
That is an ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL quality for a good leader.
If you can't keep a cool head when things are tough, then it doesn't matter how good your skills are as a leader, as your anger will not only cloud your judgement, but it will also make you seem wild, reckless, and therefore untrustworthy.
Kenny and My Lee were good friends.
As a matter of fact even though my Kenny didn't agree with everything Kenny said, when Clementine went missing, Kenny jumped at the chance to go find her, even though he knew nothing of my My Lee being bitten, as I had Lee hide the bite.
And given My Lee's calm approach to things, he was a good influence on Kenny, and with his help, I think Kenny would've recovered and been in much better shape than he was in S2, provided My Lee had survived.
With that said, I think, and I've said this many times, that killing Lee off was a huge mistake.
He was a GREAT PC character, more so than Clementine.
And I would've much rather played him than Clementine.
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offen… morese if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with the tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority.
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
… [view original content]
Listen, EVERYONE has their own opinions and you making all these screenshots trying to prove that those opposed to you are wrong and we are not. You aren't wrong either because....here it comes....it's an "opinion" and there is no right or wrong. Clem doesn't have to agree about going down south like in your screenshot, she can agree with Kenny. You damn well know that, didn't choose to screenshot the other choices? It doesn't matter anyway because in the end it's the same outcome whatever vhoice is said and you know that.
Sorry but nothing you say will change the opinion of others because you point out things that you think are true, it is how you see things and not a fact. I know Kenny comes across as irrational when he is worried as proven in the truck on the way to Howes and yes he doesn't always think things through. If the user Kenny4President2016 wants to think he's a good leader then let him/her but even I wouldn't want him as a leader but do i hate him? No i do not. I still trust him more than any of the other characters we came across and that is the one most important thing if i were in an apocalyptic world.
When Kenny alienates himself in Ep4 and you talk about his violent behaviour. The man just lost another "Katjaa", of course he was going to be angry, it really is no wonder though. I wouldn't be calm about it but i didn't like how he spoke to Clem and blamed her for it, however, i knew he didn't mean it and Clem can even say this to him in Ep 5.
Kenny's intentions are good, and his heart is in the right place but sometimes he does not think rationally and i admit that and the only person he trusts is Clementine which is why he is always nice towards her apart from when Sarita died in which his grief made him say horrible things but apologised for later. He calmly discusses with Clem after he acts like an "immature todler" as you stated, and you can see that what he is saying is what he believes is in the best interest for AJ even if you don't think it is, but he does care and he just feels the rest of the group doesn't when they don't agree with him and that's the issue how i see it.
You pointed out that if you stay silent that Jane would do all those good deeds anyway. Maybe so but what if you look at it like this, she decided to do the good things in front of Clem because of guilt or to show Clem she's a good person. What if she was alone? Im pretty sure on her own she would rob Arvo, definitely abandon Sarah and I don't think she would let the family in because she's a loner at heart. Good points about Jane are that she kept the peace between Mike, Kenny and Arvo, she saved Kenny's life, I appreciated that she saved Clem from the ice, got the fire going to keep her warm and also taught her how to take down walkers easier. Probably a few other things. That's my opinion on Jane. I don't hate her like some people here think but I dislike a hell of a lot of things about her the same way you hate/dislike Kenny.
Anyway theres my reply. I wish everyone would stop the arguments about Kenny vs Jane, people hating on Kenny, people hating on Jane. I dread to think if there will ever be another bunch of characters so split in opinion
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offen… morese if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with the tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority.
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
… [view original content]
I'd also like to say sialark that anything ive ever said in reply to you is not intended to offend you so apologies if i have. I don't hate you or anything. Let's just agree to disagree
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offen… morese if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with the tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority.
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
… [view original content]
Goods? Skilled survivor, cares about people, approaches things with a sensible mindset, very defensive of those she cares about, stands up when she sees injustice, saved Clementine's life, saved Kenny's life, helped the group escape from Carver, and is far more nuanced than most characters in the game with her complex issues regarding survival and her sister.
and what are the goods? xD well i know she skilled with survival but i cant find any positives. i mean the one time she looked trusting and … morekind to someone like that guy with the ak she shot him in the nuts and let him get eaten xD and with luke she fucked him and ran off xD
Flog61
Jane said "i spy an asshole" which would naturally cause a reaction and that was before Kenny said no one liked her/abandons peopl… moree etc. Also before Kenny says the "hurtful" thing to Jane, in response to whatever Clem said, he said "I couldn't see the damn road", Jane then responds "i bet you're having a lot of trouble seeing these days", another thing that didn't make the situation better. I know what Kenny was saying didn't help but she was just as bad
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offen… morese if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with the tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority.
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
… [view original content]
Clementine doesn't do anything to him in season 1, and he can refuse to help save her, a child, if he doesn't like Lee. That's not really having her back is it?
And as CunningFox said, being a good friend isn't about supporting people only when you get support in return, it's about loyalty that transcends disagreement.
Loyalty is only loyalty if it survives in the face of disagreement.
I'll admit that Kenny could act pretty childish if you disagree with him.
But if you have his back when it matters, he has your back, and we has your back he is loyal to a fault, which is what a true friend does.
Thank you!
You said basically what I did, and elaborated on it.
And the reason this issue is resurfacing is because there is NOTHING left to talk about, regarding the game. And besides, how much time can you honestly devote to a videogame?
Listen, EVERYONE has their own opinions and you making all these screenshots trying to prove that those opposed to you are wrong and we are … morenot. You aren't wrong either because....here it comes....it's an "opinion" and there is no right or wrong. Clem doesn't have to agree about going down south like in your screenshot, she can agree with Kenny. You damn well know that, didn't choose to screenshot the other choices? It doesn't matter anyway because in the end it's the same outcome whatever vhoice is said and you know that.
Sorry but nothing you say will change the opinion of others because you point out things that you think are true, it is how you see things and not a fact. I know Kenny comes across as irrational when he is worried as proven in the truck on the way to Howes and yes he doesn't always think things through. If the user Kenny4President2016 wants to think he's a good leader then let him/her but even I wouldn't want him as a le… [view original content]
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offen… morese if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with the tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority.
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
… [view original content]
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offen… morese if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
When a decisive/direct Man from the South speaks with the tone of confidence about what the right and wrong things to do are, he would appear to be a figure of authority.
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
… [view original content]
Flog61
Jane said "i spy an asshole" which would naturally cause a reaction and that was before Kenny said no one liked her/abandons peopl… moree etc. Also before Kenny says the "hurtful" thing to Jane, in response to whatever Clem said, he said "I couldn't see the damn road", Jane then responds "i bet you're having a lot of trouble seeing these days", another thing that didn't make the situation better. I know what Kenny was saying didn't help but she was just as bad
So you list Kenny's good deeds but then choose to only list Jane's bad deeds, think your comment is fairly biased wouldn't you agree? Don't … moreyou remember when Jane rushes to pull Clem out of the ice, helps Rebecca and Clem get out of the herd, saves Kenny's ass at the start of episode 5 and possibly the whole group along with that kill.
I think people should try to stop making it die down. If people want to keep on arguing about Kenny and Jane, theyre going to. As long as it doesnt get out of hand, I feel like its mostly harmless.
I know what you mean. It was so heated in the first few months I figured it would have died out already. People just can't accept that peopl… moree disagree with them.
I identified with Jane, other people identified with Kenny - both are fine - we all have our reasons. Let it go, people...
In my opinion a lot of the hate has to do with Kenny's morals and the haters feel anger at how Kenny behaved. I have a feeling his critics a… morere either thinking about these controversial moments in their head, or replaying the game, which makes their hate get stronger and stronger over time. A lot of people kinda accept that Kenny wasn't always a morally good character but was still one of the most entertaining characters in the game. If anyone can't see that then they can't really enjoy and get the full experience of either season 1 or 2.
Hating morally grey characters and characters like Kenny has been a major problem amongst modern day Americans imo. I've seen it happen in other shows too. Often leads to crazy opinions like characters like Luke and Omid being better characters than Kenny. Lmao.
Read the previous posts that glorify Kenny and demonize Jane.... people can glorify and demonize which ever characters they choose, I agree it's unfair but people can have opinions and other people can disagree with those opinions.
hardly any pro Kenny on here anymore
People who don't like Kenny got used to being downvoted and even threatened for like two years,… more I'm sure you can manage being in the minority (without downvotes and without life threats as far as I can see) in the time until season 3.
That is why i like posting on here despite sometimes feeling like im ganged up on by those with different opinions to me. I find most of the regular users such as yourself as decent people who don't destroy you saying you are wrong just for an opinion different to theirs
Maybe this feels like more of a safe place to express that opinion. I sure as heck avoid YouTube comments and other places where you get sho… moreuted down for not going with the popular choice. There are not too many forums as well regulated as this one is.
Comments
If you insist.
yeah but that was the only safezone that i could think of xD howbout kenny fo hilltop colony leader 2016 xD
and what are the goods? xD well i know she skilled with survival but i cant find any positives. i mean the one time she looked trusting and kind to someone like that guy with the ak she shot him in the nuts and let him get eaten xD and with luke she fucked him and ran off xD
yeah i guess we are in a 2 side situation once you pick a character to kill off you can only find the goods of the character you let live and the bads of the other character. to be honest i wanted to kill both characters for hurting clemmy cloo but kenny was in since season 1 so i didnt want a character like that killed off so early but i didnt want him going around having a tantrum all the time xD which is why i liked the ending where i can kill off jane and have kenny go away and be someone elses problem but he can also have that one bag of supplies to survive. whilst clem and AJ can go be safe behind the solid walls of wellington.
yeah sure but kenny is basically more major considering he has been in the game since season 1 episode 1. so we've been able to feel attached to the character. i couldnt feel attached to jane she was waaaay too cold.
If there was one thing that I think they did good in Season 2, it was helping the player develop opinions on both Jane and Kenny and have them make the choice between who lives and who dies on who they liked more. I felt that any thread I went on about this decision, it seemed like it was a 50/50 split between the fans. If they did that writing more often in Season 2, I would have enjoyed it a lot more.
I didn't hate Kenny but I thought he needed to go. He was too stubborn, impulsive, and volatile. He was the kind of character who would fumble around in the dark while he had a perfectly good flashlight in his hand and he would only turn it on after walking face first into a wall. There was no "think before you act" in him. I saw him as a liability from the moment he let his bravado risk the lives of the hostages at the ski lodge.
I hope this doesn't get into a big ol' discussion, because I have things to do, and I really can't stand the look of that red text (no offense if you don't know how to turn it off or whatever.) But anyway, I'm here to pick apart your imo frankly bad argument. ^_^
The problem with Kenny though is he believes that whatever he says is the right thing to do; to him whatever he wants is automatically always the "best" and "right" thing, and anyone disagreeing with him is absolutely wrong all the time. Frankly he doesn't consider anyone else's perspective when it would really count, and thus he looks like a childish moron (and he is.) E.g. when he is arguing to look for Wellington, if you side with Jane on going to Howe's, this is what happens:
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Even after taking a vote, Kenny thinks he knows better than the rest of them, saying, "I don't give two shits about what you people think." (In my case, Kenny doesn't give two shits about what Clementine thinks here either.) "I got this truck workin', so I say where we go, and we're headin' fuckin' north."
And he ends the conversation by slamming the car door and cursing, like an immature toddler:
Yeah, really great leadership skills.
The problem though is if you're not "his people" then you're basically part of that "world" that he's mad at, meaning you're basically fucked. Jane, Mike, Bonnie, Arvo? They all disagreed with Kenny in significant situations and they were obviously not "his people." And given how many times I've disagreed with him, I know I'm not one of "his people" either, so I know that Kenny would fuck me over, even if I wanted his help. Kenny's proven this in season 1, when he basically refused to help me look for Clem unless I agreed with him on nearly every decision, and he's proven it throughout season 2, when he didn't listen to anything I had to say, to the point that he beats up a defenseless kid to near-death and he nearly kills a woman unless I shoot him. That's how far he goes--he literally won't listen to you unless you fricking shoot him. How exactly is that a mark of a good leader? Good God, he even says it himself:
"Tell you what, we can turn around just as soon as you pry this wheel from my cold, dead fingers." If you disagree with him, if you don't want to go the way he wants you to go, you have to kill him. And that's LITERALLY what the end of the season boiled down to.
What on earth are you talking about? How on earth is Kenny a good leader? He's a terrible leader, as he has terrible ideas that would get everyone killed, unless someone interferes. In the beginning of "In Harm's Way," when they're in the back of Carver's truck, he wants to fight a bunch of people armed with guns with his bare hands, when he has two children he's supposed to be protecting! If Kenny had succeeded, Carver would've probably beat Kenny to death (or Carver would've just gunned Kenny down, more likely) right there and then in that truck. Then near the end of "In Harm's Way," he dilly-dallies around Howe's, unnecessarily beating Carver's face in when he could've just shot Carver in the head; otherwise Kenny was just taking away from their valuable escape time. (How exactly was Kenny helping things when he was wasting time bashing Carver's face in? Shouldn't he be more concerned getting the two kids in his group to safety?) Also in "In Harm's Way," his "plan" to get through the herd is to "improvise." And as Mike rightly points out:
"Then that's not a plan. You don't plan to improvise." Rebecca continues, echoing exactly how I feel: "I figured out what your problem is: you don't think this stuff through."
And he wasn't just "weighing the options" like you claim. In the back of that truck, he really was going to try to punch an armed Carver, and the only thing that stopped him from getting himself killed (and probably getting the others injured as well) was when he got knocked out by the truck.
Hahaha, well oh boyyyy.
Jane's not perfect, and I certainly don't agree with everything she's done in the game. Her attitude towards Sarah in the beginning and the hiding-baby plan for example, I wasn't a fan of. However although Jane's mentality may have been to stay apart from the group and to look out for herself at first, she clearly changes her mind on things, and she's clearly trying to change her mentality as well. E.g. if she's trying so hard to break the group apart like you claim, then why does this happen:
When Mike and Kenny are fighting off screen about Arvo, Jane goes over and talks the two of them down, dispelling the argument. Jane's the one keeping the peace in this situation, not Kenny.
If Jane really cares so little about others, why does Jane herself choose to go save Sarah at the observation deck if you don't say anything, and let the timer run out?
Why does she choose to let Arvo keep his medicine if you let the timer run out as well? She could've easily just kept it.
Why does she let the family in at Howe's, if you let the timer run out? She could've just as easily told them to leave.
Whether you agree with what Jane does in these three scenarios or not, the fact that she opts for the option to help others shows that she really is changing.
Where exactly are you getting all of this from? The S2 group was never "strong" even before Jane joined it--Kenny and Luke were always going at each other's necks over the smallest things; Bonnie and Mike were always waiting around for Kenny/Luke to make a plan and tell them what to do; the Cabin Group never seemed to trust Kenny in general. Rebecca was already pregnant, and still would've needed medical attention/a safe place to have her baby, whether Jane was there or not. What does any of this have to do with Jane? She happens to point out that Kenny is going through some shit and they have to be careful around him--which is what everyone says, even without Jane's input.
E.g. Before Jane ever says one word about Kenny in the game, Bonnie and Mike say:
Kenny alienates himself in the group with his brash and violent behavior; the others just point it out. If Jane had never come back but Kenny had continued to beat Arvo as he did, then yes, Mike and Bonnie and Arvo still would have left Kenny behind.
Well duh, but if you tell most people that a baby is missing, the first thing that'll come out of their mouths is, "What happened to the baby? Where were you last with them?" And then they'd actually ask for an explanation from Jane, and listen. Kenny didn't even give Jane a chance to talk.
He's played a larger part but we mustn't forget that it was thanks to Jane that everyone found a way to escape Howe's and it was thanks to Jane that they had shelter from the cold and Walkers and it was thanks to Jane that Kenny lived at the beginning of Episode 5, he may have been around for longer but whether he's a more major character at this point is subjective. I personally felt attached to Jane cause I understand being an introvert, what I like about her the most is how she can develop as a character thanks to Clementine. I felt attached to Kenny too and I've forgiven some of the things he's done but it's hard to continue to feel attached to a character who makes you feel angry every few seconds after a genuine apology because he ends up doing something rude to someone else![:\](https://community.telltale.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
You have an issue with people liking posts they agree with or do you think people are just trying to acquire likes? This forum is not filled with rival gangs, just people with different opinions, and I only like posts I have some agreement with. Isnt that what the like button is for?
In my opinion a lot of the hate has to do with Kenny's morals and the haters feel anger at how Kenny behaved. I have a feeling his critics are either thinking about these controversial moments in their head, or replaying the game, which makes their hate get stronger and stronger over time. A lot of people kinda accept that Kenny wasn't always a morally good character but was still one of the most entertaining characters in the game. If anyone can't see that then they can't really enjoy and get the full experience of either season 1 or 2.
Hating morally grey characters and characters like Kenny has been a major problem amongst modern day Americans imo. I've seen it happen in other shows too. Often leads to crazy opinions like characters like Luke and Omid being better characters than Kenny. Lmao.
Maybe this feels like more of a safe place to express that opinion. I sure as heck avoid YouTube comments and other places where you get shouted down for not going with the popular choice. There are not too many forums as well regulated as this one is.
I agree that people, because of this rivalry, dont give Jane enough credit. She did a lot to help the group in spite of her tendency to not want to get too close, which is a perfectly valid way to feel. She is the exact opposite of Kenny, but that doesnt make her worse.
I cant believe this is still being debated
I know what you mean. It was so heated in the first few months I figured it would have died out already. People just can't accept that people disagree with them.
I identified with Jane, other people identified with Kenny - both are fine - we all have our reasons. Let it go, people...
"People follow leaders because they have seemingly definite answers, as though it Goes from God to the Leader to You and me. They can't appear wishy-washy, can't reveal their thinking...If they blurt every thought or plan out as they're thinking, then others realize he doesn't know what to do any more than the rest of us...he's just weighing the options like the rest of us."
I think Kenny had some good leadership skills, but the strain of being a leader was to much for him.
And though he often had good intentions, he let his temper get the best of him.
And let's not forget that he went through some heartwrenching losses in both games, so that certainly didn't help things.
The reason why people looked up to Lee, is because Lee was able to keep a cool head when things were hot.
That is an ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL quality for a good leader.
If you can't keep a cool head when things are tough, then it doesn't matter how good your skills are as a leader, as your anger will not only cloud your judgement, but it will also make you seem wild, reckless, and therefore untrustworthy.
Kenny and My Lee were good friends.
As a matter of fact even though my Kenny didn't agree with everything Kenny said, when Clementine went missing, Kenny jumped at the chance to go find her, even though he knew nothing of my My Lee being bitten, as I had Lee hide the bite.
And given My Lee's calm approach to things, he was a good influence on Kenny, and with his help, I think Kenny would've recovered and been in much better shape than he was in S2, provided My Lee had survived.
With that said, I think, and I've said this many times, that killing Lee off was a huge mistake.
He was a GREAT PC character, more so than Clementine.
And I would've much rather played him than Clementine.
Listen, EVERYONE has their own opinions and you making all these screenshots trying to prove that those opposed to you are wrong and we are not. You aren't wrong either because....here it comes....it's an "opinion" and there is no right or wrong. Clem doesn't have to agree about going down south like in your screenshot, she can agree with Kenny. You damn well know that, didn't choose to screenshot the other choices? It doesn't matter anyway because in the end it's the same outcome whatever vhoice is said and you know that.
Sorry but nothing you say will change the opinion of others because you point out things that you think are true, it is how you see things and not a fact. I know Kenny comes across as irrational when he is worried as proven in the truck on the way to Howes and yes he doesn't always think things through. If the user Kenny4President2016 wants to think he's a good leader then let him/her but even I wouldn't want him as a leader but do i hate him? No i do not. I still trust him more than any of the other characters we came across and that is the one most important thing if i were in an apocalyptic world.
When Kenny alienates himself in Ep4 and you talk about his violent behaviour. The man just lost another "Katjaa", of course he was going to be angry, it really is no wonder though. I wouldn't be calm about it but i didn't like how he spoke to Clem and blamed her for it, however, i knew he didn't mean it and Clem can even say this to him in Ep 5.
Kenny's intentions are good, and his heart is in the right place but sometimes he does not think rationally and i admit that and the only person he trusts is Clementine which is why he is always nice towards her apart from when Sarita died in which his grief made him say horrible things but apologised for later. He calmly discusses with Clem after he acts like an "immature todler" as you stated, and you can see that what he is saying is what he believes is in the best interest for AJ even if you don't think it is, but he does care and he just feels the rest of the group doesn't when they don't agree with him and that's the issue how i see it.
You pointed out that if you stay silent that Jane would do all those good deeds anyway. Maybe so but what if you look at it like this, she decided to do the good things in front of Clem because of guilt or to show Clem she's a good person. What if she was alone? Im pretty sure on her own she would rob Arvo, definitely abandon Sarah and I don't think she would let the family in because she's a loner at heart. Good points about Jane are that she kept the peace between Mike, Kenny and Arvo, she saved Kenny's life, I appreciated that she saved Clem from the ice, got the fire going to keep her warm and also taught her how to take down walkers easier. Probably a few other things. That's my opinion on Jane. I don't hate her like some people here think but I dislike a hell of a lot of things about her the same way you hate/dislike Kenny.
Anyway theres my reply. I wish everyone would stop the arguments about Kenny vs Jane, people hating on Kenny, people hating on Jane. I dread to think if there will ever be another bunch of characters so split in opinion
I'd also like to say sialark that anything ive ever said in reply to you is not intended to offend you so apologies if i have. I don't hate you or anything. Let's just agree to disagree
Goods? Skilled survivor, cares about people, approaches things with a sensible mindset, very defensive of those she cares about, stands up when she sees injustice, saved Clementine's life, saved Kenny's life, helped the group escape from Carver, and is far more nuanced than most characters in the game with her complex issues regarding survival and her sister.
saying someone's being a dickhead isn't exactly equivalent to saying no-one loves her.
Wonderful post.
Clementine doesn't do anything to him in season 1, and he can refuse to help save her, a child, if he doesn't like Lee. That's not really having her back is it?
And as CunningFox said, being a good friend isn't about supporting people only when you get support in return, it's about loyalty that transcends disagreement.
Loyalty is only loyalty if it survives in the face of disagreement.
Thank you!
You said basically what I did, and elaborated on it.
And the reason this issue is resurfacing is because there is NOTHING left to talk about, regarding the game. And besides, how much time can you honestly devote to a videogame?
Good read. Much like InfiniteDawn's posts, I enjoy reading your debates and reasoning on Kenny and his negative qualities.
Whether you hate Kenny or love him, can't we all agree that Bonnie sucks?
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I like the screenshots. They help me remember things I forgot. In this case, I think they were put to good use.
They were both being very childish. i think we can all agree on that.
Some of those arent good deeds so much as just bad things that happened to him.
I think people should try to stop making it die down. If people want to keep on arguing about Kenny and Jane, theyre going to. As long as it doesnt get out of hand, I feel like its mostly harmless.
Must we bring Bonnie into this?
I don't think either Bonnie, Mike, or Arvo sucks.
Hell, I even wanted to go with them just to get away from Kenny and Jane, mostly Kenny.
I did too. Why wasnt that an option.
I wanted to leave Kenny in season one when we were on the train.
Yep.
Lol.
But you don't when it comes to Jane's negative qualities right? Lol
wdfan thats exactly how it is with the negativity towards him in my opinion.
Well said prink
Flog61
Oh i can manage don't you worry. 3 years on these forums ive seen and dealt with plenty of hate towards my opinions. It's fine.
KCohere
That is why i like posting on here despite sometimes feeling like im ganged up on by those with different opinions to me. I find most of the regular users such as yourself as decent people who don't destroy you saying you are wrong just for an opinion different to theirs