Their own fucking doctor was using the meds TO GET HIGH, and he gets to stay and that is ok?
Keep in mind that not only did Dr. Lingard personally attempt to treat AJ for an undefined period of time and mentions having a "curse" that helps him determine when a patient isn't gonna make it, but he's also the group's only doctor and a co-leader. Clementine on the otherhand is just some bratty teenager who broke their rules and turned her back on them when she got caught; one is inherently more important than the other, not to mention easier to deal with.
These people did not seem to care about AJ at all. Anyone who would deny meds to a dying infant based on the clearly wrong assumption that it is wasted anyway and anyone who would throw a KID out into the wild without any protection to be at the mercy of walkers, is not someone who cares about anything. These people are selfish bastards.
Ava and Dr. Lingard both seem to genuinely care about Clementine and AJ, even simply expressing their disapproval instead of reporting her and vouching for David to go easy on her when he makes his decision; the fact that Clementine is not at all alarmed when they see her and even smiles when David mentions that AJ is currently living under Dr. Lingard's authority says a lot. Also, while it was definitely way harsh, I don't David actually meant that and was just letting his temper get the best of him like old times.
she had good reason but it was still wrong?
How does that make sense?
Oh and she was stealing TO HELP SAVE A LIFE. Their own fucking d… moreoctor was using the meds TO GET HIGH, and he gets to stay and that is ok?
These people did not seem to care about AJ at all. Anyone who would deny meds to a dying infant based on the clearly wrong assumption that it is wasted anyway and anyone who would throw a KID out into the wild without any protection to be at the mercy of walkers, is not someone who cares about anything. These people are selfish bastards.
That said, I was surprised David didnt hit her or beat her up, like Carver did. She came at him pretty strongly, but he never crossed the line, which I think is a nice bit of character trait that's been established about him.
Yeah, though I thought that was the implication of Ava's line right afterwards. But apparently, he simply marched her away and told her to take a hike.
I dont understand why those assholes insisted on taking AJ away from her. It's like they threw her out and clearly thought AJ was a waste of… more skin, so what was it to them? I think Clem did the right to spit David in the face. I would have done the same. They talk about wasting meds on an infant when their own fucking doctor is lying around high using their resources recreationally. Fuck that.
That said, I was surprised David didnt hit her or beat her up, like Carver did. She came at him pretty strongly, but he never crossed the line, which I think is a nice bit of character trait that's been established about him. He is not brutal, cruel and unreasonable (and hence not some lame comic book villain) and I like that. I like it when the "bad" guys also have redeeming qualities, which then makes just dismissing them as the baddies harder. I didnt think I would say this but I actually do like David.
she had good reason but it was still wrong?
How does that make sense?
Oh and she was stealing TO HELP SAVE A LIFE. Their own fucking d… moreoctor was using the meds TO GET HIGH, and he gets to stay and that is ok?
These people did not seem to care about AJ at all. Anyone who would deny meds to a dying infant based on the clearly wrong assumption that it is wasted anyway and anyone who would throw a KID out into the wild without any protection to be at the mercy of walkers, is not someone who cares about anything. These people are selfish bastards.
They didn't threw an infant to the wolves and the medication was a waste.
But I agree with you kicking a teen girl out of the camp was an asshole decision of David.
She could have been punished different way for hee bad behaviour like we do with our kids when they are bad.
I guess David didn't kick Lingard because doctors are rare and too valuable.
lied to Clementine about Carver. She knew Carver was a monstruous person.
Not necessarily. All she really did was point out that Carver usually had his reasons for his more extreme actions and state that he wasn't always that psychotic, something Luke and Rebecca also allude to. It's just that we're not given much more information or context supporting that general train of thought both in the past and in the present.
Becca can determinantly tell Bonnie she should know about people telling lies..
Really now? I never heard that before.
Left the 400 days group to die in a herd of zombies, the group she belonged to before she joined Carver's.
That's not really lying so much as getting caught in alarm and going along with a pyrhic(and unavoidable) situation. Besides, the herd was already headed in that direction any way and there had been multiple breaches throughout the episode.
Finally left Clem to die and stole all of the supplies, before she was acting as a friend wich was a big lie.
Determinate disillusionment and lying is not the same thing. Hell, if you tried to save Luke, she shows signs of reservations even before Clementine is shot and insisted on staying in regret instead of leaving with Mike. She only left in that instance because of Kenny, the reason Mike even came up with that plan in the first plan.
And she's pretty upfront with not caring for her anymore if you didn't, so no real lies there.
Yes she always lied since 400 days. Started with the love triangle with Dee and Leland behind Dee's back, lied to Leland determinantly, lied… more to dying Dee determinantly.
Lied in season 2 to Walter, lied to Clementine about Carver. She knew Carver was a monstruous person.
Becca can determinantly tell Bonnie she should know about people telling lies..
Left the 400 days group to die in a herd of zombies, the group she belonged to before she joined Carver's.
Finally left Clem to die and stole all of the supplies, before she was acting as a friend wich was a big lie.
This all makes Bonnie an opportunistic selfish liar.
lied to Clementine about Carver. She knew Carver was a monstruous person.
Not necessarily. All she really did was point out that Car… morever usually had his reasons for his more extreme actions and state that he wasn't always that psychotic, something Luke and Rebecca also allude to. It's just that we're not given much more information or context supporting that general train of thought both in the past and in the present.
Becca can determinantly tell Bonnie she should know about people telling lies..
Really now? I never heard that before.
Left the 400 days group to die in a herd of zombies, the group she belonged to before she joined Carver's.
That's not really lying so much as getting caught in alarm and going along with a pyrhic(and unavoidable) situation. Besides, the herd was already headed in that direction any way and there had been multiple breaches throughout the episode.
Finally left Clem to die … [view original content]
Though it is worth noting that even if Becca and Russell didn't exactly do much to endear themselves to her(not mention that she's the only one guaranteed to be there besides Tavia), we technically don't know if she did or not since there was quite some time before Kenny and determinately Clementine woke up and she was apparently just getting things in order with Luke and Mike right before they did, so she actually might have for all we know.
That's not really lying so much as getting caught in alarm and going along with a pyrhic.
She still didn't make any attempts to warn them. That not may not be lying, but means that Bonnie is fake as f&*&.
I don't think she deserved to get kicked. I was thinking that brand on Clem's arm was for nothing and meant nothing while playing it out. Since it was David kicking her out, I can believe he would get mad, but he didn't seem to hesitate to kick a little girl out around the age that his little girl would be and just kicking a little girl out in general. I suppose he won't give any special privileges, but he could just make her work on making up for the lost medicine. There are other solutions than that rediculous scenerio we got. The whole thing felt wrong from a story standpoint and I guess the writers just needed some excuse for Clem to hate the NF and vice cersa.
True, but how can you trust a thief that stole the last piece of medicine behind the group's back to serve their own selfishness? Sure they could've made her do something else instead of just kicking her out, but how do they know she won't do it again? If someone's willing to do something the first time then they're damn willing to do it again. That's why there's a saying "once a cheater, always a cheater." Different situation, same concept.
I don't think she deserved to get kicked. I was thinking that brand on Clem's arm was for nothing and meant nothing while playing it out. Si… morence it was David kicking her out, I can believe he would get mad, but he didn't seem to hesitate to kick a little girl out around the age that his little girl would be and just kicking a little girl out in general. I suppose he won't give any special privileges, but he could just make her work on making up for the lost medicine. There are other solutions than that rediculous scenerio we got. The whole thing felt wrong from a story standpoint and I guess the writers just needed some excuse for Clem to hate the NF and vice cersa.
The flashback falls flat for me because of how little we know about Clementine and AJ's presence in Richmond, and how much The New Frontier tolerated them before they had decided to kick Clementine out due to her shenanigans while keeping AJ with them for his own safety.
The scene just skips right to to the part where TNF makes their decision to banish Clementine and steal AJ because she decided to steal their medicine for a baby's sake, while ignoring that one of their own is clearly abusing drugs to get high right besides her for no-one's benefit but his own.
From what the flashback explained to me is that the people of TNF are either ridiculously petty, biased, or hypocritical, to the point where they just comes across as villains purely for the sake of Clementine having an antagonist in her story arc, as TNF basically stole a baby from her just because they could.
I'd be more content if the scene had made it so that Clementine was presented in a more negative light by having her take advantage of everyone's trust in her once too many times, which would make the people of TNF's overall behaviour towards her easier to understand.
I don't think she deserved to get kicked. I was thinking that brand on Clem's arm was for nothing and meant nothing while playing it out. Si… morence it was David kicking her out, I can believe he would get mad, but he didn't seem to hesitate to kick a little girl out around the age that his little girl would be and just kicking a little girl out in general. I suppose he won't give any special privileges, but he could just make her work on making up for the lost medicine. There are other solutions than that rediculous scenerio we got. The whole thing felt wrong from a story standpoint and I guess the writers just needed some excuse for Clem to hate the NF and vice cersa.
A 13 years old girl is trying to help a 2 years old boy because he's dying, and people don't want to help her because he's condeemed. It's a baby, but whatever, we don't have empathy because he's dying anyways. Also, the 13 years old kid is a thief for trying to help. Can't empathize with her, we aren't people, we are robots. We have no feelings.
WAIT, let's keep the boy, don't wanna waste medicine but it's okay to waste food with him, because food isn't more scarce than medicine... Obviously, people in this zombie world are being killed by those horrendous diseases. Did you all knew that 90% of the deaths in TWD are caused from those terrible and horrendous diseases?. Let's kick the 13 years old kid, she's so capable anyways, such a survivor, plot, hurr durr. Clem needs to get separated from AJ to meet Javier, so... let's do it.
Considering nobody cared about Joan raids on communities ( excellent writing ), it's not that surprising.
Also, telltale, your writers are such amazing people, real life envy this incredible writing that is ANF.
What kind of an illness did AJ have that they said he was gonna die for sure? That was some seriously messed up rationale. The kid wasnt in a coma, he wasnt bleeding out - he was sitting there living, breathing, crying and they were just gonna let it die? This whole scene was fucked up and I think just badly thought through.
They didn't threw an infant to the wolves and the medication was a waste.
But I agree with you kicking a teen girl out of the camp was an a… moresshole decision of David.
She could have been punished different way for hee bad behaviour like we do with our kids when they are bad.
I guess David didn't kick Lingard because doctors are rare and too valuable.
Oh yes the humanity, they didnt shoot Clem in the face, that definitely makes them really good people who genuinely care about Clementine. Good grief, you all would fit in quite nicely in the New Frontier community. WTF. What they did was cruel. First of all, what kind of a disease did AJ have that warranted just withholding treatment? The kid was not in a coma, it wasnt missing limbs, wasnt bitten, wasnt bleeding, wasnt morally wounded, what could possibly justify them doing this to him? The doctor was just lying there tripping on shit and drooling and i am supposed to think he genuinely cared about Clem or AJ?
And Clem is not a brattty teenager, she was trying to save AJ's LIFE. She wasnt stealing candy, she took meds to help the kid, hardly the act of a bratty anything.
Sure thye needed a doctor, but then get on their high horses and give that "we are doing the moral thing" speech, reprimanding her for being the lowest of the low and a moral failing for having taken meds to help save a life. Ava even says "oh you deserve all you get". Why? Why does Clem deserve dying at the hands of walkers and wandering the world alone for having taken meds to treat a kid when the doctor takes meds to get high? One thing to look the other way casue you need a doctor, but quite something else to double down and defend your position as morally high when you are letting a drug addict get away from taking valuable resources to feed his high.
Their own fucking doctor was using the meds TO GET HIGH, and he gets to stay and that is ok?
Keep in mind that not only did Dr. Ling… moreard personally attempt to treat AJ for an undefined period of time and mentions having a "curse" that helps him determine when a patient isn't gonna make it, but he's also the group's only doctor and a co-leader. Clementine on the otherhand is just some bratty teenager who broke their rules and turned her back on them when she got caught; one is inherently more important than the other, not to mention easier to deal with.
These people did not seem to care about AJ at all. Anyone who would deny meds to a dying infant based on the clearly wrong assumption that it is wasted anyway and anyone who would throw a KID out into the wild without any protection to be at the mercy of walkers, is not someone who cares about anything. These people are selfish bastards.
Ava and Dr. Lingard both seem to gen… [view original content]
Good grief, you all would fit in quite nicely in the New Frontier community. WTF.
Gotta "love" that black-n-white viewpoint, yo.
First of all, what kind of a disease did AJ have that warranted just withholding treatment? The kid was not in a coma, it wasnt missing limbs, wasnt bitten, wasnt bleeding, wasnt morally wounded, what could possibly justify them doing this to him?
I'm a little curious about that myself; if I had to guess, it was probably something like pneumonia, given that he was born and spent much of his infantry(is that the term?) in the winter of North Carolina, Tennessee, and/or every state between there and Ohio.
And Clem is not a brattty teenager, she was trying to save AJ's LIFE. She wasnt stealing candy, she took meds to help the kid, hardly the act of a bratty anything.
I meant her dialogue towards David before he decides he's kicking her out, but I forgot that that's determinant--My bad.
Ava even says "oh you deserve all you get".
Uh, you do know she only says that if you spit in David's face after she asked him to at least give Clementine a chance to say goodbye to AJ, right?
Why does Clem deserve dying at the hands of walkers and wandering the world alone for having taken meds to treat a kid when the doctor takes meds to get high?
That's also the reason Lingard and Ava goes along with David's decision: Clementine and AJ are unlikely to make it on their own if they're together, so keeping AJ with them until the sickness finally overcomes him(which it [apparently] thankfully didn't) while Clementine takes care of herself was the better choice to letting them leave together.
One thing to look the other way casue you need a doctor, but quite something else to double down and defend your position as morally high when you are letting a drug addict get away from taking valuable resources to feed his high.
Eh, I got nothin but what I already stated. I know he technically could've using something other than the medicine, but that's honestly the least likely(and funny) scenario. At the very least, David's tone suggested that he had talked about that before and he likely forced him to break the habit by present day time.Though it's also possible that AJ only got better because Lingard took advantage of the fact that he's a baby and snuck him very small doses of medicine, but that remains to be seen.
Oh yes the humanity, they didnt shoot Clem in the face, that definitely makes them really good people who genuinely care about Clementine. G… moreood grief, you all would fit in quite nicely in the New Frontier community. WTF. What they did was cruel. First of all, what kind of a disease did AJ have that warranted just withholding treatment? The kid was not in a coma, it wasnt missing limbs, wasnt bitten, wasnt bleeding, wasnt morally wounded, what could possibly justify them doing this to him? The doctor was just lying there tripping on shit and drooling and i am supposed to think he genuinely cared about Clem or AJ?
And Clem is not a brattty teenager, she was trying to save AJ's LIFE. She wasnt stealing candy, she took meds to help the kid, hardly the act of a bratty anything.
Sure thye needed a doctor, but then get on their high horses and give that "we are doing the moral thing" speech, reprimanding her for being the lowest of the low and… [view original content]
Finally she was a backstabbing opportunistic person who was able to destroy peoples lives, just to get herself more benefits..
She was the last person you could ever trust.
She ruined Dee's and Leland's lives, she betrayed Walter and the 400 days group, she betrayed poor Clementine.
She kept talking shit about Jane out of jealousy, because Luke liked Jane.
What we see even a fucked up Jane was much better than Bonnie.
A dying Dee to Bonnie:"You fucking junkie, you killed me".
Eh, I suppose.
Though it is worth noting that even if Becca and Russell didn't exactly do much to endear themselves to her(not mention th… moreat she's the only one guaranteed to be there besides Tavia), we technically don't know if she did or not since there was quite some time before Kenny and determinately Clementine woke up and she was apparently just getting things in order with Luke and Mike right before they did, so she actually might have for all we know.
Well history learns people always changed into assholes you can't trust in wars.
So what about the zombie apocalypse?
Peoples were able to betray/sell off Jewish kids to the Nazi's in Word War 2 just for 30 dollars. We all know those kids ended up in gas chambers.
So what is shocking about kicking out a 13-year old thief who put other lives in danger in a zombie apocalypse?
I am sure in real life much worse stuff would have happened.
A 13 years old girl is trying to help a 2 years old boy because he's dying, and people don't want to help her because he's condeemed. It's a… more baby, but whatever, we don't have empathy because he's dying anyways. Also, the 13 years old kid is a thief for trying to help. Can't empathize with her, we aren't people, we are robots. We have no feelings.
WAIT, let's keep the boy, don't wanna waste medicine but it's okay to waste food with him, because food isn't more scarce than medicine... Obviously, people in this zombie world are being killed by those horrendous diseases. Did you all knew that 90% of the deaths in TWD are caused from those terrible and horrendous diseases?. Let's kick the 13 years old kid, she's so capable anyways, such a survivor, plot, hurr durr. Clem needs to get separated from AJ to meet Javier, so... let's do it.
Considering nobody cared about Joan raids on communities ( excellent writing ), it's not that surprising.
A… [view original content]
She ruined Dee's and Leland's lives, she betrayed Walter and the 400 days group, she betrayed poor Clementine.
To be fair, the first one was more Dee's fault. If she hadn't infiltrated Gil's Pitstop and try to kill Bonnie out of [determinantly] pointless jealously, Bonnie wouldn't have gotten shot and she wouldn't have taken a pole to the head.
The rest is up to the individual ruling, but are valid nonetheless.
She kept talking shit about Jane out of jealousy, because Luke liked Jane.
She wasn't the only one you know, nor was she wrong for being hesitant to trust her. And was it even really implied that Luke actually liked Jane at that point, let alone given off in a way that Bonnie would've noticed in the short amount of time the three were together at that point?
Personally, that type of out of universe mindset is something I reeeally don't like, but unfortunately, it keeps rearing it's ugly head any time romance is even remotely possible. Actually, Bonnie more or less avoiding that in No Going Back is one of the reasons why she's okay in my book, even if some of the fanbase have to insist on it being a thing.
What we see even a fucked up Jane was much better than Bonnie.
Vehemently disagree, but whatever--both are different degrees of sketchy, even if Jane is way above Bonnie's level in it.
Whatever she was.. liar or not..
Finally she was a backstabbing opportunistic person who was able to destroy peoples lives, just to get h… moreerself more benefits..
She was the last person you could ever trust.
She ruined Dee's and Leland's lives, she betrayed Walter and the 400 days group, she betrayed poor Clementine.
She kept talking shit about Jane out of jealousy, because Luke liked Jane.
What we see even a fucked up Jane was much better than Bonnie.
A dying Dee to Bonnie:"You fucking junkie, you killed me".
She ruined Dee's and Leland's lives, she betrayed Walter and the 400 days group, she betrayed poor Clementine.
To be fair, the first… more one was more Dee's fault. If she hadn't infiltrated Gil's Pitstop and try to kill Bonnie out of [determinantly] pointless jealously, Bonnie wouldn't have gotten shot and she wouldn't have taken a pole to the head.
The rest is up to the individual ruling, but are valid nonetheless.
She kept talking shit about Jane out of jealousy, because Luke liked Jane.
She wasn't the only one you know, nor was she wrong for being hesitant to trust her. And was it even really implied that Luke actually liked Jane at that point, let alone given off in a way that Bonnie would've noticed in the short amount of time the three were together at that point?
Personally, that type of out of universe mindset is something I reeeally don't like, but unfortunately, it keeps rearing it's ugly head any time romance i… [view original content]
It was obvious to me Dee wanted to get rid of Bonnie because she had an affair with her husband.
Was that ever really confirmed? Because many determinant lines and the storyboards someone posted a while ago implied it was more that one/both took a liking to the/each other and that they were at most considering doing something rather than there being an actual affair going on.
Bonnie just a fake backstabber, acting like the sweet lady.
Wow, some people really took Bonnie's defecting hard, eh? Honestly, she always seemed like someone who was genuinely kindhearted and whatnot, but she constantly made poor life decisions and got mixed up in bad situations.
It was obvious to me Dee wanted to get rid of Bonnie because she had an affair with her husband. And she helped that junkie before.
And Jane was somehow a real person..
Bonnie just a fake backstabber, acting like the sweet lady.
Well they have AJ. If she's so desperate to save him, Clem would be willing to stay and help any way she can. I imagine it was something like this already.
True, but how can you trust a thief that stole the last piece of medicine behind the group's back to serve their own selfishness? Sure they … morecould've made her do something else instead of just kicking her out, but how do they know she won't do it again? If someone's willing to do something the first time then they're damn willing to do it again. That's why there's a saying "once a cheater, always a cheater." Different situation, same concept.
Seeing as he apparently survived, it seems like Clementine was right to keep giving him the medicine. The group should have probably let Clementine stay and punished her in another way rather than throwing her out altogether.
I think it was a weak way to make the player think that AJ was dead when really -- wait for it...HE'S ALIVE! Who could've ever guessed such a predictable plot twist?
David was an asshole to protect a High Lingard but at the same time screaming to Clem she is a thief and kicking her out. This is very hypocrite.
I believe Clem deserved punishment, but not this harsh way to get kicked out.
Well playing the devils advocate....Lingard does have a set of skills that are hard to do without. Clem may be a great scavenger...but they have many of them....but I still think David was too aggressive in his punishment.
David was an asshole to protect a High Lingard but at the same time screaming to Clem she is a thief and kicking her out. This is very hypocrite.
I believe Clem deserved punishment, but not this harsh way to get kicked out.
Clementine deserved it in both occasions. The New Frontier helped AJ as much as they can thinking logically and smartly. Giving AJ too much vancomycin would have overdosed him and killed him. Clementine did a dick move by stealing drugs even when she knew that the New Frontier do not tolerate thieves. AJ was kept as David knew that AJ would die under Clem's command.
I will end you! He overreacted...and did not consider what he would have done if it had been one of his kids. Sure she should have been punished...but not like that you heartless monster....not like that.
Comments
she is a KID
no they let their own doctor take their meds to get high while throwing a kid and infant to the wolves. This is the kind people these are.
Keep in mind that not only did Dr. Lingard personally attempt to treat AJ for an undefined period of time and mentions having a "curse" that helps him determine when a patient isn't gonna make it, but he's also the group's only doctor and a co-leader. Clementine on the otherhand is just some bratty teenager who broke their rules and turned her back on them when she got caught; one is inherently more important than the other, not to mention easier to deal with.
Ava and Dr. Lingard both seem to genuinely care about Clementine and AJ, even simply expressing their disapproval instead of reporting her and vouching for David to go easy on her when he makes his decision; the fact that Clementine is not at all alarmed when they see her and even smiles when David mentions that AJ is currently living under Dr. Lingard's authority says a lot. Also, while it was definitely way harsh, I don't David actually meant that and was just letting his temper get the best of him like old times.
Yeah, though I thought that was the implication of Ava's line right afterwards. But apparently, he simply marched her away and told her to take a hike.
I mean that doing it to save AJ is an understandable reason but the action itself was wrong.
They didn't threw an infant to the wolves and the medication was a waste.
But I agree with you kicking a teen girl out of the camp was an asshole decision of David.
She could have been punished different way for hee bad behaviour like we do with our kids when they are bad.
I guess David didn't kick Lingard because doctors are rare and too valuable.
Not necessarily. All she really did was point out that Carver usually had his reasons for his more extreme actions and state that he wasn't always that psychotic, something Luke and Rebecca also allude to. It's just that we're not given much more information or context supporting that general train of thought both in the past and in the present.
Really now? I never heard that before.
That's not really lying so much as getting caught in alarm and going along with a pyrhic(and unavoidable) situation. Besides, the herd was already headed in that direction any way and there had been multiple breaches throughout the episode.
Determinate disillusionment and lying is not the same thing. Hell, if you tried to save Luke, she shows signs of reservations even before Clementine is shot and insisted on staying in regret instead of leaving with Mike. She only left in that instance because of Kenny, the reason Mike even came up with that plan in the first plan.
And she's pretty upfront with not caring for her anymore if you didn't, so no real lies there.
She still didn't make any attempts to warn them. That not may not be lying, but means that Bonnie is fake as f&*&.
Eh, I suppose.
Though it is worth noting that even if Becca and Russell didn't exactly do much to endear themselves to her(not mention that she's the only one guaranteed to be there besides Tavia), we technically don't know if she did or not since there was quite some time before Kenny and determinately Clementine woke up and she was apparently just getting things in order with Luke and Mike right before they did, so she actually might have for all we know.
I don't think she deserved to get kicked. I was thinking that brand on Clem's arm was for nothing and meant nothing while playing it out. Since it was David kicking her out, I can believe he would get mad, but he didn't seem to hesitate to kick a little girl out around the age that his little girl would be and just kicking a little girl out in general. I suppose he won't give any special privileges, but he could just make her work on making up for the lost medicine. There are other solutions than that rediculous scenerio we got. The whole thing felt wrong from a story standpoint and I guess the writers just needed some excuse for Clem to hate the NF and vice cersa.
True, but how can you trust a thief that stole the last piece of medicine behind the group's back to serve their own selfishness? Sure they could've made her do something else instead of just kicking her out, but how do they know she won't do it again? If someone's willing to do something the first time then they're damn willing to do it again. That's why there's a saying "once a cheater, always a cheater." Different situation, same concept.
The flashback falls flat for me because of how little we know about Clementine and AJ's presence in Richmond, and how much The New Frontier tolerated them before they had decided to kick Clementine out due to her shenanigans while keeping AJ with them for his own safety.
The scene just skips right to to the part where TNF makes their decision to banish Clementine and steal AJ because she decided to steal their medicine for a baby's sake, while ignoring that one of their own is clearly abusing drugs to get high right besides her for no-one's benefit but his own.
From what the flashback explained to me is that the people of TNF are either ridiculously petty, biased, or hypocritical, to the point where they just comes across as villains purely for the sake of Clementine having an antagonist in her story arc, as TNF basically stole a baby from her just because they could.
I'd be more content if the scene had made it so that Clementine was presented in a more negative light by having her take advantage of everyone's trust in her once too many times, which would make the people of TNF's overall behaviour towards her easier to understand.
Clementine is a relatively small 13 year old, while Mariana is ten.
A 13 years old girl is trying to help a 2 years old boy because he's dying, and people don't want to help her because he's condeemed. It's a baby, but whatever, we don't have empathy because he's dying anyways. Also, the 13 years old kid is a thief for trying to help. Can't empathize with her, we aren't people, we are robots. We have no feelings.
WAIT, let's keep the boy, don't wanna waste medicine but it's okay to waste food with him, because food isn't more scarce than medicine... Obviously, people in this zombie world are being killed by those horrendous diseases. Did you all knew that 90% of the deaths in TWD are caused from those terrible and horrendous diseases?. Let's kick the 13 years old kid, she's so capable anyways, such a survivor, plot, hurr durr. Clem needs to get separated from AJ to meet Javier, so... let's do it.
Considering nobody cared about Joan raids on communities ( excellent writing ), it's not that surprising.
Also, telltale, your writers are such amazing people, real life envy this incredible writing that is ANF.
got really inspired while writing this, wow
What kind of an illness did AJ have that they said he was gonna die for sure? That was some seriously messed up rationale. The kid wasnt in a coma, he wasnt bleeding out - he was sitting there living, breathing, crying and they were just gonna let it die? This whole scene was fucked up and I think just badly thought through.
Oh yes the humanity, they didnt shoot Clem in the face, that definitely makes them really good people who genuinely care about Clementine. Good grief, you all would fit in quite nicely in the New Frontier community. WTF. What they did was cruel. First of all, what kind of a disease did AJ have that warranted just withholding treatment? The kid was not in a coma, it wasnt missing limbs, wasnt bitten, wasnt bleeding, wasnt morally wounded, what could possibly justify them doing this to him? The doctor was just lying there tripping on shit and drooling and i am supposed to think he genuinely cared about Clem or AJ?
And Clem is not a brattty teenager, she was trying to save AJ's LIFE. She wasnt stealing candy, she took meds to help the kid, hardly the act of a bratty anything.
Sure thye needed a doctor, but then get on their high horses and give that "we are doing the moral thing" speech, reprimanding her for being the lowest of the low and a moral failing for having taken meds to help save a life. Ava even says "oh you deserve all you get". Why? Why does Clem deserve dying at the hands of walkers and wandering the world alone for having taken meds to treat a kid when the doctor takes meds to get high? One thing to look the other way casue you need a doctor, but quite something else to double down and defend your position as morally high when you are letting a drug addict get away from taking valuable resources to feed his high.
Very possible. I was that short too when I was 13. I still am lol.
Well now more like Av's height.
Gotta "love" that black-n-white viewpoint, yo.
I'm a little curious about that myself; if I had to guess, it was probably something like pneumonia, given that he was born and spent much of his infantry(is that the term?) in the winter of North Carolina, Tennessee, and/or every state between there and Ohio.
I meant her dialogue towards David before he decides he's kicking her out, but I forgot that that's determinant--My bad.
Uh, you do know she only says that if you spit in David's face after she asked him to at least give Clementine a chance to say goodbye to AJ, right?
That's also the reason Lingard and Ava goes along with David's decision: Clementine and AJ are unlikely to make it on their own if they're together, so keeping AJ with them until the sickness finally overcomes him(which it [apparently] thankfully didn't) while Clementine takes care of herself was the better choice to letting them leave together.
Eh, I got nothin but what I already stated. I know he technically could've using something other than the medicine, but that's honestly the least likely(and funny) scenario. At the very least, David's tone suggested that he had talked about that before and he likely forced him to break the habit by present day time.Though it's also possible that AJ only got better because Lingard took advantage of the fact that he's a baby and snuck him very small doses of medicine, but that remains to be seen.
Who is 19, btw.
Whatever she was.. liar or not..
Finally she was a backstabbing opportunistic person who was able to destroy peoples lives, just to get herself more benefits..
She was the last person you could ever trust.
She ruined Dee's and Leland's lives, she betrayed Walter and the 400 days group, she betrayed poor Clementine.
She kept talking shit about Jane out of jealousy, because Luke liked Jane.
What we see even a fucked up Jane was much better than Bonnie.
A dying Dee to Bonnie:"You fucking junkie, you killed me".
I guess Clem will be short like Ava as an adult.
Well history learns people always changed into assholes you can't trust in wars.
So what about the zombie apocalypse?
Peoples were able to betray/sell off Jewish kids to the Nazi's in Word War 2 just for 30 dollars. We all know those kids ended up in gas chambers.
So what is shocking about kicking out a 13-year old thief who put other lives in danger in a zombie apocalypse?
I am sure in real life much worse stuff would have happened.
To be fair, the first one was more Dee's fault. If she hadn't infiltrated Gil's Pitstop and try to kill Bonnie out of [determinantly] pointless jealously, Bonnie wouldn't have gotten shot and she wouldn't have taken a pole to the head.
The rest is up to the individual ruling, but are valid nonetheless.
She wasn't the only one you know, nor was she wrong for being hesitant to trust her. And was it even really implied that Luke actually liked Jane at that point, let alone given off in a way that Bonnie would've noticed in the short amount of time the three were together at that point?
Personally, that type of out of universe mindset is something I reeeally don't like, but unfortunately, it keeps rearing it's ugly head any time romance is even remotely possible. Actually, Bonnie more or less avoiding that in No Going Back is one of the reasons why she's okay in my book, even if some of the fanbase have to insist on it being a thing.
Vehemently disagree, but whatever--both are different degrees of sketchy, even if Jane is way above Bonnie's level in it.
Probably so, especially since Ava seems like she's meant to be David's answer to Clementine.
It was obvious to me Dee wanted to get rid of Bonnie because she had an affair with her husband. And she helped that junkie before.
And Jane was somehow a real person..
Bonnie just a fake backstabber, acting like the sweet lady.
Was that ever really confirmed? Because many determinant lines and the storyboards someone posted a while ago implied it was more that one/both took a liking to the/each other and that they were at most considering doing something rather than there being an actual affair going on.
Wow, some people really took Bonnie's defecting hard, eh? Honestly, she always seemed like someone who was genuinely kindhearted and whatnot, but she constantly made poor life decisions and got mixed up in bad situations.
Well they have AJ. If she's so desperate to save him, Clem would be willing to stay and help any way she can. I imagine it was something like this already.
I wouldn't say she deserved to be kicked out, but I probably would have placed her in higher scrutiny if anything, had I been in New Frontier's shoes.
David was probably lying.
But there's a choice to not inject him
I think David over reacted. Also it was a dick move taking AJ away from her.
There has to be conflict somewhere.
"Quick! Make the characters act stupid to progress the story! It doesn't matter if it doesn't make any sense!"
I think it was a weak way to make the player think that AJ was dead when really -- wait for it...HE'S ALIVE! Who could've ever guessed such a predictable plot twist?
David was an asshole to protect a High Lingard but at the same time screaming to Clem she is a thief and kicking her out. This is very hypocrite.
I believe Clem deserved punishment, but not this harsh way to get kicked out.
Nope. He just wanted to protect AJ.
It was an asshole move, but this is the way David was thinking.
Well playing the devils advocate....Lingard does have a set of skills that are hard to do without. Clem may be a great scavenger...but they have many of them....but I still think David was too aggressive in his punishment.
Clementine deserved it in both occasions. The New Frontier helped AJ as much as they can thinking logically and smartly. Giving AJ too much vancomycin would have overdosed him and killed him. Clementine did a dick move by stealing drugs even when she knew that the New Frontier do not tolerate thieves. AJ was kept as David knew that AJ would die under Clem's command.
Then why was he ranting about how he was a lost cause and that they should've left him out in the woods?
It is like you read my gripes about why s2 was such a failure in the end.
I will end you! He overreacted...and did not consider what he would have done if it had been one of his kids. Sure she should have been punished...but not like that you heartless monster....not like that.