Jane being "disturbed"
Kenny calls her this and I've seen her described as this by Kennyphiles. I don't understand it though. I would describe Jane as somewhat cold, perhaps manipulative, but "disturbed?" It was an incredibly dumb idea for her to put AJ in a car, but, in her own words, "it was the only way I can make you (Clem) see" (that Kenny was dangerous). She tried to drive away without him, but that didn't work. If Mike and Bonnie told Jane about their plan, she may have agreed. But Clem was shot and she went with Kenny as a deal with the devil to stay with Clem. This wasn't just about going to Howe's but the problem that she couldn't communicate reasonably with Kenny. Jane always seem lucid to me. Other than the AJ incident, which I felt was an "extreme, no-other-choice" move, she's not even close to being disturbed.
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I think a big issue people tend to have with Jane has to do with her (seemingly) either indifferent, annoyed or heavily irritated attitude towards many of the other characters in the game, almost looking like it's as if she doesn't care about others' well-being (Clem being an exception, of course). It might seem that she just doesn't give a shit about anyone other than herself, and by not digging deeper into her character, she can seem pretty merciless and cold-hearted. The whole Sarah and AJ situations come to mind. I can see why some people might see her as disturbed, even though I (much like yourself, from the sound of it) don't believe she is it that whatsoever.
It's not that she doesn't care - far from it. She often chooses to distance herself from people since she's had a shitty run with groups and individuals before, and doesn't want to get too attached to anyone in order to keep herself from getting torn apart again. Her sister's death was probably one of the big factors towards her changed personality, but you can definitely see a different side to Jane - a more caring, kind yet realistic side - whenever Clem's around. She saw potential in the kid, much like Kenny did as well, but the way she went about it gave me the impression that she never really was a very social type to begin with.
Some people just aren't going to like certain characters at the end of the day, though. Same goes for people in real life. People calling Jane "disturbed" should know that there are likely just as many folks out there calling Kenny the same thing.
Oh yeah, I saw this this morning and considered saying something, but forgot.
To sum it up real quick for old times sake, some of us have been pretty bold in declaring her to be a borderline sociopath. Primarily because she's pretty much a alarmingly realistic portrayal of a lot of the key traits if you actually think about it.
I also got to a period where, before ANF made it somewhat undeniable, I kinda noticed that along with the sociopathic tendencies came some undertonal inference that Jane is ultimately crazy(or disturbed, if you will) herself--just a brand that happened long enough ago with enough developed "stabilizing" points that she can pass for a high-functioning brand.
Jane is disturbed. You don’t put a baby in a freezing cold car where there is a good chance walkers could get in (the window was open a crack) all to prove a point. She chose to mess with an unstable man’s emotions, she chose to upset him when it was totally unecessary and a fight wouldn’t have happened otherwise. She knew how he would react and chose not to reveal the truth knowing she may die in the process. What if the baby didn’t cry? Kenny and Clem would have walked off thinking he was dead and then the baby would have starved/froze to death all because Jane felt it was more important to prove her point. The whole thing was disturbing and i feel very sorry for people who can’t see that and I would say the same thing if the roles were reversed trust me.
Jane should know Kenny would never physically hurt Clem. He hurts people who are a threat to him and a threat to those he loves. She just couldn’t stand being round him so she wanted him out of the way and the fact Clem didn’t want to leave her friend probably further upset Jane and fueled her plan, yet Kenny would have seemingly put up with her before she did what she did.
Anyway i’ll stop there, i’ve been over this time and time again. The big thing with this whole scenario for me is “trust” and after that i could not trust Jane again. At least Kenny has never lied about anything to anyone.
This.
Don't search further,this is your answer @Torridd.
Excellent reply.
Dan, what do you do if you're in Jane's shoes? Jane gambled (and won) that AJ would be heard no matter what happened. How do you deal with Kenny?
Ohhh i don’t know? Maybe not use the baby as provactive tool for one?
What would i do in Jane’s shoes? I would ask Clem what she wanted to do or thought was the best course of action instead of forcing the situation onto her so that she would then have no choice. If Clem decided to stay with Kenny, i would be upset that she wouldn’t leave with me but i would respect her decision and I would either leave back to Howe’s myself or just accept whatever plan goes ahead. That is what i would do if i was Jane. I would always put the kids first, and Jane didn’t do that when she deceived Clem because she didn’t get her way and that was what that scene was all about. If you decide to abandon Jane after Kenny dies, she BEGS Clem not to leave her because she doesn’t want to be alone. If you abandoned Kenny instead, he doesn’t beg, he respects her decision and says she made the right call. The only time Kenny ever begged for something was for Edith to let the kids stay in Wellington so they could be safe
It's not just that she's had a bad run with groups or doesn't wanna get attached to them. Sarah is seen by Jane as someone who isn't made for this world. A liability that is going to drag them down and maybe even get them killed. AJ even more so. These are perfectly normal feelings to have. Having a baby in a zombie apocalypse is insanity in my opinion. I think AJ was the main reason she left the first time around.
I wouldn't describe Jane as 'disturbed', but more in the lines of 'destructively impulsive and severely lacking in common sense'.
For all the hazing that Sarah had in Amid The Ruins, about her being a liability to have around due to her anxiety and for being shell-shocked over witnessing her father's horrible death, Jane herself had done far more damage and endangerment to the group due to her own ill-thought out plans and reckless behaviour.
Jane's own actions eventually culminates in either herself being killed by Kenny in Season 2 after deliberately provoking an unstable man into a fight, or herself succumbing to depression and impulsively commits suicide over an unplanned pregnancy in ANF.
Her mental state and behaviour never really felt 'disturbed' to me, but I definitely do think that the real issue with Jane's as a whole is that she's not as smart as she believes herself to be.
I guess the end-question would be if you think Kenny is dangerous like Jane does. If you think a child is in danger, would you just leave her? If you just think Jane wants her way, I guess we would have to agree to disagree. But if, like I think, Jane was put between a rock and a hard place, then she didn't have many choices. Remember she already spoke to Clem in the truck after Kenny left and tried to drive off without him. Despite Clem's maturity, she's still a kid. Maybe Jane felt that Clem couldn't protect herself from Kenny and she had to intercede.
"Jane herself had done far more damage and endangerment to the group due to her own ill-thought out plans and reckless behaviour."
There's no basis for this.
Here's a list of Jane's actions that I believe to be detrimental to the group:
I try not to make comments in which I have no basis, and I believe I have provided evidence that supports my belief that Jane was a danger to the group due to her actions.
Point 1 - This is not her fault 2 - Perhaps, but I get the feeling Arvo was coming back regardless 3 - Sarah was lost and remember Luke agreed with this 4 - again, she had no choice. There was no other way of getting Kenny away from Clem.
Uh, if she was the one who made that offer in the first place(which she did), then yes. Yes it is.
Considering the first thing Natasha asks when she comes out is if Clementine was one of the people who robbed him(with the other two laughing at his confirmation), I sorta doubt that.
And yet Jane insisted on arguing with Clementine, being wasting time and nothing about it herself. The fact that it's implied that Jane would've straight up left Clementine as well in the moment doesn't help.
I think you determinately got that backwards. But Richie's point still stands--Jane could've been more civil. She's supposed to be the smart, practical one, right?
Kenny had one goal, to get the kids to safety. Everything he did regardless of how bad, mean, violent etc that he was around them, everything he did was for them so its just stupid writing or something that would make Jane think Kenny is a danger to them when its plainly obvious he would never hurt them. I already explained that Kenny only hurts those that are a threat to himself or a threat to those he loves. Jane was probably jealous of his and Clem’s friendship, it wouldn’t surprise me at all that this was part the reason Jane did what she did
yeah forcing sending clem to steal that radio was so safe
Wasn't she picked due to a weight issue or something?
We're not talking about why she went, we're talking about if it was stupid. And it was. The whole plan was very, very stupid.
Alright, Rebecca.
The plan was reckless but it worked. Who knows what would could have happened if they didn't escape from Carver when they did. With Kenny rattling the cage (I admire him for trying to escape but his methods were stupid and were inadvertently making things worse harder on everyone), Luke getting caught, and Carver quickly coming to realize that Clementine wasn't the typical scared little girl things would have only gotten worse and security would have undoubtedly tightened. They had to make use of there plan while they still had a certain degree of surprise on their side before security tightened.
Point 1....you are an idiot...how is it her fault? Last time I checked it took two to tango...for normal sex....maybe not you but..normal ;P
Point 2...Even if you do not rob him but keep the gun...which to be fair was only right seeing as he drew on Clem and did not get a bullet sandwich for doing that...I will call your point...WRONG!
Point 3...Even if you do not have a disagreement with Jane in this part...it takes the exact same amount of time...so once again...you are WRONG!!
Point 4 Bad Writing should never be blamed on the character...so your point is WRONG!!!
Jane is not disturbed...hell in several instances she was the one voice of reason. You want disturbed you look at Kenny...Mister loves to shoot people even without knowing the situation...Mister hey lets charge that door and over power someone and grab their gun and then shoot the next someone we see...because that is the hallmarks of a plan devised by someone playing with a full deck.
Being in an apocalypse for several years causes people to become disturbed, it affects their way of thinking and their ability to empathise with others.
Jane is not disturbed, nor is Kenny, they're both broken in their own ways and their unfortunate circumstances have lead them to make erratic decisions.
Jane has killed but never shown content for it, in fact, she's shown remorse for the deaths of those she feels were undeserving, Kenny and Vitali. She intentionally distances herself from people because she's an introvert, she's awkward and often tries to choose the more logical path for survival but easily submits to her emotions and morals, at the end of the day she's saved Clementine, Rebecca, AJ, Kenny, Luke, Sarah and debateably others despite her survival of the fittest ideology. She constantly puts herself in harm's way for peopke she doesn't know because she has retained allot of her humanity even if she may not know it herself. She's a complex character whom I personally relate to when it comes to her way of thinking and indecisiveness and just like people have forgiven Kenny for the terrible things he's done, I've forgiven Jane for her actions.
Don’t be an idiot. It was Luke’s plan for her to get the radio to him and he is the one who fucked everything up otherwise they might have had a smoother way to escape. And it was everyone’s plan in “forcing” Clem to get the radio, as @DabigRG said, it was due to her size and weight being able to use the hoist to get onto the roof.
And whilst on the subject, later when asking/giving her the radio to take to Luke was also a safer plan. She was a lot less likely to be suspected than a grown adult carrying it and as Kenny said she knew exactly where to meet Luke, the others didn’t, she can slip through places unnoticed and hide easier than them if something went wrong. Kenny, unlike the others was at least doing something instead of sitting back and accepting their miserable fates.
So for the sake of all this just because you’re a typical Kenny hater, stop hating for the sake of hating unless there is a justified reason to moan about him which i personally don’t think there is a need to on this occasion.
That’s exactly what i said pretty much. Very true
That’s not disturbed, that’s someone who isn’t thinking straight during a very precarious situation and most likely a very scary situation being held prisoner. Look up what an actual disturbed person is before hating on Kenny because it’s...Kenny
This whole post be like
.
Oh look--a stick 'a dynamite! I'll just leave it here, next to this popping furnace. What could pawsibly go wrong?
...You know what, I honestly don't know what I should say right now.
That's more on the gameplay automation than anything else, tbh. It's not the only scene that suffers from that--not even in that particular episode.
The idea still checks out though--it's a matter of principle or at least Jane's equivalent.
If bad writing causes a character to do something detrimentally dickish, then sure I can. How staunch I am about it is ultimately up to the context.
If by a full deck, you mean being a dumbass, then yeah Go Fish.
Exactly. This is what made the scenario at the end interesting. Kenny and Jane were both very wrong in different ways. The season 2 finale had no right answer.
Jane was a sociopathic manipulator. The fact that she set up that fight with Kenny just to get rid of him and convince Clem that he's a bad guy should be enough for anyone to not like her. How anyone could like Jane is beyond me. Clementine, Kenny and Jane could've lived in peace as a group if Jane didn't make it her mission to kill Kenny.
Jane was always a troublemaker in my eyes, telling me to leave my friends behind, steal from strangers that can cause a war, having a boom boom time with Luke instead of letting him do his job and (If you chose her) leaves Clementine and AJ behind because of stupid pregnancy caused by her stupidity.
Amen
If you've seen my other posts, you'd see I have a very low opinion of Luke as well
it did? because I seem to recall sarah, carlos, nick and sarita dying and causing a mental breakdown in kenny.
yeah, great plan. really worked wonders.
I don't why, that line stuck with me. Rebecca seemed like the only smart person there at that time.
Until A New Frontier came out and broke that rule.
Well which is worse? Losing a few people by carrying out the original plan but you ultimately escape and live or staying held prisoner with all your friends for the rest of your life?
Would Carver have kept them prisoner if they just started cooperating, though? A lot of survivors in the apocalypse would kill to get a place at Howe's. And even if having Carver as a leader was that unbearable couldn't they just have devised a plan to kill him rather than bringing the whole place down, escaping and having half the group die in the process?
Not criticizing solely Kenny btw, Jane, Bonnie and others also side with that insane plan lol. If I recall correctly only Luke was against it.
~50 years later~
inb4 someone complains that Kenny fans are batman
Yeah it really was a shame how they handled that.
Depends how long he made me and my friends slaves i guess but considering how he so simply killed Reggie for doing something wrong I think i’d fear for my life. I’d probably want to take my chances on the road. I don’t know, it’s a tough decision to be honest.
I wouldn’t call the plan insane really. Had the group managed to sneak out, kill a walker and get the guts over them without somehow alerting the guards without drawing sound, they would have all lived and walked through the herd.
Fixed