The DeLorean explanation (merged threads)

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  • edited January 2011
    I admit that I have been warming up to the temporal clone explanation given in the game. It's inventive; it changes nothing overt about the story told in the trilogy; it allows those who hold sentimental attachment to a specific DeLorean (ie. they love the old one) to transfer such feelings to this one since it technically is the old one; and it gives us fans something additional to talk and argue about in keeping with how we argue about the science or contradictions of the films.

    Sure, I would have also accepted a new DeLorean if that's what Doc said had happened (which is what I originally thought would happen since it was the only idea that made sense to me at the time,) but this temporal clone idea works, and it's definitely growing on me.


    Also, I wasn't sure how it would work to create two objects of matter from one original one without having to expend enormous amounts of energy to do so, though the Star Trek-esque quantum duplicate theory someone previously mentioned also works, I guess... actually, as I write this I wonder just how much energy was transferred to the DeLorean from the lightning strike (since none was visibly transferred all the way to the ground,) versus how much is required to duplicate the DeLorean.


    Further I really do wonder a lot about the existence of a duplicate Doc. I imagine if there is one, that he would have laid low and tried not to corrupt the timeline, only to have his DeLorean stolen by the Doc we do know about and become stranded in the future forever (or unless the game story visits him later.)
  • edited January 2011
    OMA wrote: »
    I have a little question about the time travelling train, though it's not directly related with the game...

    In 1885 Doc didn't have access to the parts necessary to repair his DeLorean, so how did he manage to build a brand new time travelling train? If he can't get the few materials to repair the DeLorean in 1885, then he is even less likely to have all the parts required to build a new time machine, even if the train was made from scraps of the wrecked train
    There seems to be some agreement that Doc used the walkie-talkie and Hoverboard left behind to make the parts necessary for the train to travel through time.
  • edited January 2011
    markeres wrote: »
    There seems to be some agreement that Doc used the walkie-talkie and Hoverboard left behind to make the parts necessary for the train to travel through time.

    The circuitry in those would be fairly helpful in creating at least rudimentary time circuits. And then he went further ahead to get everything else he needs.
  • OMAOMA
    edited January 2011
    markeres wrote: »
    There seems to be some agreement that Doc used the walkie-talkie and Hoverboard left behind to make the parts necessary for the train to travel through time.

    Really? When was that agreement reached? :D

    So just some chips from a walkie talkie and the hoverboard were enough to construct a new time machine? That doesn't sound very plausible. Even within the movie's fantasy.
    The circuitry in those would be fairly helpful in creating at least rudimentary time circuits. And then he went further ahead to get everything else he needs.

    Where did he get everything else?
  • edited January 2011
    A lot of the tech on that train was either steam or magnet powered.
  • edited January 2011
    OMA wrote: »
    Really? When was that agreement reached? :D
    The Time Train Walkie-Talkie Circuitry Accords of 2010. What, you missed it?

    Also, these posts:

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=412751&postcount=15
    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=413080&postcount=171
    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=413082&postcount=172
    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=413087&postcount=173
    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=413169&postcount=174
    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=415433&postcount=122
    OMA wrote: »
    So just some chips from a walkie talkie and the hoverboard were enough to construct a new time machine? That doesn't sound very plausible. Even within the movie's fantasy.
    As those posts above point out, there's really no other explanation.
  • OMAOMA
    edited January 2011
    markeres wrote: »
    The Time Train Walkie-Talkie Circuitry Accords of 2010. What, you missed it?
    Oh, how could I miss that? :D
    markeres wrote: »
    Also, these posts:
    Thanks for pointing me to those posts. I started reading that thread but didn't get to those pages.
    markeres wrote: »
    As those posts above point out, there's really no other explanation.

    I think it's a weak explanation but you're right, there is no better explanation, because they didn't explain it at all in the movie. Talk about a cop out ;)

    So if they didn't explain that plot hole in a "canon" movie, we shouldn't be so harsh on Telltale's DeLorean duplication story. At least they tried to give an explanation...
  • edited January 2011
    OMA wrote: »
    I think it's a weak explanation but you're right, there is no better explanation, because they didn't explain it at all in the movie. Talk about a cop out ;)

    So if they didn't explain that plot hole in a "canon" movie, we shouldn't be so harsh on Telltale's DeLorean duplication story. At least they tried to give an explanation...

    Yeah, all that was said about the train was, "Marty! It runs on steam!" I however am able to look at it and see why it works...mainly cause I love steampunk, and that's what the train was. :p
  • edited January 2011
    Yeah, all that was said about the train was, "Marty! It runs on steam!" I however am able to look at it and see why it works...mainly cause I love steampunk, and that's what the train was. :p

    Oh, funny thing. In one of the Russian voice over translations (there were several, each for a different TV channel), which was incidentally the first one I heard all those years ago (i.e. my first time seeing the trilogy), Doc says what would be translated in English as 'Marty, it's now a train!' Since then that line always gave me a 'WTF?!' impression until I've heard the original.
  • edited January 2011
    Farlander wrote: »
    Oh, funny thing. In one of the Russian voice over translations (there were several, each for a different TV channel), which was incidentally the first one I heard all those years ago (i.e. my first time seeing the trilogy), Doc says what would be translated in English as 'Marty, it's now a train!' Since then that line always gave me a 'WTF?!' impression until I've heard the original.

    Wow...that's almost as bad as that terrible subtitling for Revenge of the Sith. :p
  • edited January 2011
    Bonito wrote: »
    Well, Doc could have taken the Delorean from a previous time, cloned it manually (and quickly) in some future year when mechanical cloning technology is readily available, so that he didn't have to go to the effort of building a new DeLorean Time Machine from scratch, and then just returned the original Delorean back to where he got it with minimal risk.

    Honestly, any plausible explanation like this would be better than the crummy lighting bolt duplication one that we got!

    THIS. I was reading through the thread hoping someone would think of this explanation, and I'm glad someone did.

    To further refine this idea, it doesn't even have to involve stealing the DeLorean. All Doc has to do is take the time train to some future era when a practical Vonn Neumann universal constructor has been invented. Then, he can bring the universal constructor back to a point in time when the first DeLorean still existed and was unattended -- for instance, when it was hidden behind the Lyon Estates billboard in 1955 during Back to the Future II. He can then mechanically copy the first DeLorean without stealing it, sending it somewhere else in time, or even moving it one inch.

    This solves the problem without the need for magic flux capacitor overloads that violate the law of conservation of mass, and it completely avoids any risk of temporal paradox.
  • edited January 2011
    There was a Back To The Future cartoon that was post BTTF III, had Jules, Verne and had a DeLorean. Does anyone remember what the explanation was for *that* DeLorean?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future:_The_Animated_Series
  • edited January 2011
    It was a new DeLorean. Doc said so.
  • edited January 2011
    What always got me is that the DeLorean was struck by lightning HOVERING. That shit ain't goin' 88 MPH... So I shouldn't be seeing serious shit.

    If you follow that logic, Marty coulda sat on the finish line in the first movie and called it quits....

    Never sat well with me back in the 80s
  • edited January 2011
    HelloMcFly wrote: »
    What always got me is that the DeLorean was struck by lightning HOVERING. That shit ain't goin' 88 MPH... So I shouldn't be seeing serious shit.

    The DeLorean spun on its axis at 88 MPH because of the lightning strike, hence the backwards "99" fire trails. Bob Gale said it in the DVD's FAQ.
  • edited January 2011
    Carlos85G wrote: »
    The DeLorean spun on its axis at 88 MPH because of the lightning strike, hence the backwards "99" fire trails. Bob Gale said it in the DVD's FAQ.

    It being a movie plot point thats well and good but there's no way lightning physically moves an object that weight 88mph from a standstill, or planes would drop like flies when hit, and they're hit all the time. I took the trails as just the movement of the tires through the air when it jumped timelines, but whateva!
  • edited January 2011
    I figured that the fact that the lightning wasn't channeled through insulated cables(which would sap a lot of the voltage) was what did it. THat much energy might have made it to where the flux capacitor spontaneously activated. Maybe. *shrugs* It's called movie logic. It doesn't always work the way one would expect.
  • edited January 2011
    I think the electrical overload to the flying circuit, that made it burn out, was what gave the car its spin.


    Or maybe the speed is only necessary to amkes ure you don#t end up with time duplicates.
    (And there is normally a safety mechanism build in to prevent the time circuits to activate before you reach safe time travel speed)
  • edited January 2011
    Farlander wrote: »
    .. an explanation they've created for an optional dialouge (because that line IS optional) ...

    So THAT'S why I never got the explanation. I've been reading the forums trying to figure out the explanation of the DeLorean returning, and come to find out I guess I didn't select that dialog. Is it when Marty first talks to Doc at the Jail? This will at least give me more of an excuse to run through the game again, well, like I need an excuse anyway :p
  • edited January 2011
    ^ The fact that it's so easy missable is probably because it will be explored in future episodes.
  • edited January 2011
    Origami wrote: »
    ^ The fact that it's so easy missable is probably because it will be explored in future episodes.
    You would think that if they were going to explore it in future episodes, they would have made it easier to find. If they bring up the explanation in future episodes, those players who didn't select the original dialogue won't know what the characters are talking about.
  • edited January 2011
    ^
    Maybe not. Maybe it gets re-explained. Marty can be like 'So Doc, tell me again exactly how did the DeLorean return?!' And then Doc can tell the complete story.
  • edited January 2011
    Luckily one of my saves was right before you talk to Doc for the first time. I now know why I missed it.. because I went on to the soup kitchen after he told me too instead of going back to the window to talk to him. I also discovered the up/down arrows to where you can scroll down to more options when talking with someone.. I never noticed those before! Wow I've missed a lot!
  • edited January 2011
    Krohn wrote: »
    ...
    Or maybe the speed is only necessary to amkes ure you don#t end up with time duplicates.
    (And there is normally a safety mechanism build in to prevent the time circuits to activate before you reach safe time travel speed)

    actually THAT would be a good point to the whole Duplicorean-theme.
    In the whole trilogy it is never mentioned WHY the delorean has to speed up to exactly 88mph. It's just a BTTF-esque particularity.
    Even wolfram-alpha knows that ;)

    But IMO it would fit to the BTTF universe, its logic and humour, that for temporal displacement, an actual speed of 88mph is absolute necessary for avoiding a possible paradoxon in the whole space-time-continuum whereas the four dimensional coordinates are getting mirrored. 88 is a number which can be mirrored without changing its value. While every other number from 1 to 9 is totally different.

    That happened to the flying Delorean at the end of BTTF II: It more or less just hovered in the air when it got struck by the lightning, got a power-overload and timetravelled to the coordinates which glitched at DESTINATION TIME: JAN 01 1885 0:00.
    But as there were 88mph missing, the 4D coordinates got mirrored and didn't send the Delorean only 70 years into the past but also 70 years into the future!

    I doubt that the mirrored version of Doc in 2025 did know that when he landed there (as Doc in 1885 didn't realize that).
    2025Doc tried to return to 1955 to get Marty back to the future but eventually he didn't manage it and maybe got killed in 2025 or put into asylum. That is when Griff shows up and is trying to steal the Delorean, when suddenly the postBTTFIII-Doc appeared with the time-travel train, after he found out that this whole mirror-story took place!
  • edited January 2011
    tope1983 wrote: »
    actually THAT would be a good point to the whole Duplicorean-theme.
    In the whole trilogy it is never mentioned WHY the delorean has to speed up to exactly 88mph. It's just a BTTF-esque particularity.
    Even wolfram-alpha knows that ;)

    But IMO it would fit to the BTTF universe, its logic and humour, that for temporal displacement, an actual speed of 88mph is absolute necessary for avoiding a possible paradoxon in the whole space-time-continuum whereas the four dimensional coordinates are getting mirrored. 88 is a number which can be mirrored without changing its value. While every other number from 1 to 9 is totally different.

    That happened to the flying Delorean at the end of BTTF II: It more or less just hovered in the air when it got struck by the lightning, got a power-overload and timetravelled to the coordinates which glitched at DESTINATION TIME: JAN 01 1885 0:00.
    But as there were 88mph missing, the 4D coordinates got mirrored and didn't send the Delorean only 70 years into the past but also 70 years into the future!

    I doubt that the mirrored version of Doc in 2025 did know that when he landed there (as Doc in 1885 didn't realize that).
    2025Doc tried to return to 1955 to get Marty back to the future but eventually he didn't manage it and maybe got killed in 2025 or put into asylum. That is when Griff shows up and is trying to steal the Delorean, when suddenly the postBTTFIII-Doc appeared with the time-travel train, after he found out that this whole mirror-story took place!

    That....that... that actually makes a lot of sense!
  • edited January 2011
    Maybe someone already said it (too long of a thread to read all the way through) but assuming that the car didn't duplicate in 1955 (who says it really didn't?) there are a number of differences in the lightning strikes so I don't see why it is a plot hole if it didn't happen in both lightning strikes.

    1. Future tech vs. none.
    2. Lightning charge difference, after all it was only stated the time circuits burned out in one. The fact the lightning was channeled and met with resistance in 1955 vs. only going through the air would make a difference on the quality and power of the charge.
    3. (my favorite) When the DeLorean was flying it did not appear as it was going 88MPH right at the moment of it getting stroked. Instead it spun in the air providing the momentum via a centripetal action to achieve the requirement provided by going 88MPH which is not how it was designed. This could cause the flux to disperse on an unattended axis in relationship to the momentum causing the car to be duplicated and thrown through time in two directions. Great Scott!
  • edited January 2011
    ^
    You're missing the biggest difference.

    The rod 'harnessed and channeled' the lightning into the flux capacitor.
    In BttF2 the whole DeLorean gets hit by lightning
  • edited January 2011
    I was indifferent; felt like it was just tossed in to appease players antsy about the details...which probably didn't work. After how stuff like the wedding ring was wrapped up in Monkey Island, I wouldn't be surprised if TTG gives a bigger--if not visual and plot-critical--description later on in the series.

    The explanation could've been much worse; it's not like Doc could just go out a buy another luxury car like that.
  • edited January 2011
    I recall having a very strong "WTF?" moment when I heard the DeLorean return in the game. I suppose the inclusion of the DeLorean was considered a necessity for the gameplay if the story was to cover new ground, since the time-travelling train might've proven unwieldy. I don't mind the explanation Doc gives to Marty, although it does seem odd that Doc wasn't duplicated as well. If he was, he certainly would've been able to repair the DeLorean in 2025, and return to 1955 to pick up Marty.

    Edit: Upon further review of my post, it seems this possibility has been discussed and dissected ad nauseum! Here I thought I was adding something interesting.
  • edited January 2011
    I recall having a very strong "WTF?" moment when I heard the DeLorean return in the game. I suppose the inclusion of the DeLorean was considered a necessity for the gameplay if the story was to cover new ground, since the time-travelling train might've proven unwieldy. I don't mind the explanation Doc gives to Marty, although it does seem odd that Doc wasn't duplicated as well. If he was, he certainly would've been able to repair the DeLorean in 2025, and return to 1955 to pick up Marty.

    Edit: Upon further review of my post, it seems this possibility has been discussed and dissected ad nauseum! Here I thought I was adding something interesting.

    No worries! Everything's been discussed ad nauseum. lol
  • edited January 2011
    Of course we have to bear in mind:

    The Delorean is not only the iconic car of the BTTF trilogy but also the most distinctive feature of the movies.
    So any sort of sequel (movie or game) obiously HAS to include it. Also most of the fans would have been very annoyed if the Delorean hasn't appeared in BTTF:TG.
    It is simply a must as well as for marketing reasons.

    Very often marketing solutions do not provide creative or franchise-logical answers. Primary it HAS to happen and only secondary there's an intelligent reason WHY it happens. You can see that throughout various sequels of movies or books or games.

    But I hope as clever Telltale Games are at storytelling they are too at explaining the return of the Delorean. Not just by one optional answer in the dialogue system.
  • edited January 2011
    Let’s take what we know about Doc. Browns Time Travel.
    1. The Flux capacitor Makes time travel possible
    2. In order to engage the Flux capacitor the DeLorean must be traveling at 88 mph
    3. The Flux capacitor needs 1.21 gigawatts of electricity to work
    4. The travel though time is controlled from the time circuits display
    5. The DeLoreans stainless steel body improves the flux dispersal generated by the flux capacitor, and this in turn allows the vehicle smooth passage through the space time continuum
    6. After time traveling, the DeLorean is extremely cold, and frost forms from atmospheric moisture all over the car's body
    7. The amount of power needed to time travel doesn’t change whether you are going one minute or 70 years in time. I can guess this because we see Doc. Refuelling the DeLorean before, almost, every time displacement.

    Now how can there be a DeLorean Clone? The answer lies in points above and what we learned in movie 2 about the DeLorean. In the second movie we see that the time circuit display has a glitch which causes the “travel to” time reading to jump around randomly. We also know that before the DeLorean was struck by lightning Doc. had it ready to go back to 1985 and he had tuned on the time circuits.

    In order for the DeLorean to be cloned a lot of things would have to happen at once, which they did. The time circuits were on and the Mr. Fusion had a full charge, next the time display would have to glitch and enter TWO different dates at the same time and at that exact moment a lightning strike to the Mr. Fusion which we saw happen. What you would then get would be a gigawatt over load, the DeLorean would have the power to make TWO trips at the same time, and all that would be missing is an acceleration to 88mph. Now we have no way of knowing how heavy the DeLorean was after Doc. Brown made it a time machine but we do know the flight controls burned out so the car would have fallen right after the lightning strike, it might have hit a velocity of 88mph falling. Thus the DeLorean travels in time to 2 points at once, with enough power to make it safely to both points in time and space.

    I know, I know, a car falling like that would not be, at least, drivable falling at that speed but it is the only way that the DeLorean would have been able to time travel and not break there own BTTF rules, so let just say that flying cars have a drop prevention system that saves the car after a malfunction in the flight controls letting it land safely.

    Now the only Question would be, where is the Second Doc. Brown? If both cars made it to both points then both passengers must have also made it there, But I hope TellTale fills us in on this later.
  • edited January 2011
    Ok i dont Buy Doc's explanation...at all.

    I would hope this 2 options:

    1. Has something to do with the beggining of the story with the mall and einstein and that not a duplicate from the lightning, if that was the explanation maybe the dream sequence would have been more about the ending of the second movie...but it seems or should be, in a movie as an in a good game, the screenplay of the game is very well planned, so that dream must be a hint about something important happening in the first trip with einstein.

    2. Doc Brown remember mrs, Strickland and had a crush on her, so he tells marty to do all that to be able to meet her, to see if she's the one for him, because it doesnt make any sence that doc sends marty to talk to young doc, knowing about time continuum...its stupid. Its like this is what happened in the first movie when you meet your fathers, now go and meet me. I think theres second motives about doc being in 1931 and putting marty to meet his young selve... i would hope that.

    the game is perfect, but i dont know why telltale and bob gale would give such a bad explanation about things... its not so difficult to imagine a better explanation of all...i just hope that this will get told in next episode...and that is not so "back to the future the series" kids stuff that its gonna be like "well theres a lightining that duplicated deloreans, and martys gonna talk with young doc and change his life, because he didnt think that would happen...
  • edited January 2011
    Read the post above you, he shows you how the explanation makes sense. Your explanation relies, above everything, on Doc Brown being a LIAR. Doc has NEVER lied to Marty at any point in the movies. He may have hid things from Marty for his own good, such as the consequences of Marty losing his judgment when someone calls him chicken, but he never lied.
  • edited January 2011
    Highditto wrote: »
    Now we have no way of knowing how heavy the DeLorean was after Doc. Brown made it a time machine but we do know the flight controls burned out so the car would have fallen right after the lightning strike, it might have hit a velocity of 88mph falling. Thus the DeLorean travels in time to 2 points at once, with enough power to make it safely to both points in time and space.

    I know, I know, a car falling like that would not be, at least, drivable falling at that speed but it is the only way that the DeLorean would have been able to time travel and not break there own BTTF rules, so let just say that flying cars have a drop prevention system that saves the car after a malfunction in the flight controls letting it land safely.
    The only problem with that explanation is that the car falls after it travels through time. The 88 MPH has to occur before time displacement.
  • edited January 2011
    The car spins and the flux capacitor hits 88mph due to the speed of the rotation. That is official. That is why there are spiral fire trails.
  • edited January 2011
    Personally I think the short answer is pretty good. Though I do hope we hear a "Doc rambling" in big words about it in more detail in a later episode on about how exactly it happened (why 75 years into the future, why he wasn't duplicated, how he fixed it, ect) ending with Marty saying something of the lines of "ummm, in english?" :D
  • edited January 2011
    it has neither been mentioned that the delorean started to spin when it got struck by the lightning nor that the rotation speed equaled the acceleration speed of 88mph.
    Believe me, it's the mirror-story I mentioned above ;)
    By the way: it also was never mentioned that ONLY the Delorean's 4D-coordinates got mirrored! As time-traveling works in BTTF everything inside the car is also taken to the destination time, so has Doc! I mean how useless would be a time-machine if you stay WHEN you are and only the machine disappears? There HAS to be a duplicate Doc in 2025, whatever happened to him that he wasn't able to repair the time circuits and get Marty back from 1955.
  • edited January 2011
    IDK, duplicating inanimate objects is/seems/more logically easier than duplicating organic life. /shrug Either way I can't wait for the future episodes. :D
  • edited January 2011
    tope1983 wrote: »
    it has neither been mentioned that the delorean started to spin when it got struck by the lightning nor that the rotation speed equaled the acceleration speed of 88mph.

    Yes it has been mentioned. By Bob Gale.
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