I don't remember where we've discussed this, as to 'why the DeLorean has ice?' stuff, but, you know, I've watched Back to the Future 2 recently, and DeLorean DOES have ice there after time travelling. Granted, not as much as it did in the first movie (budget issue ), but still.
Welcome everybody since it is my first post on this forum. I am sorry in advance if the similar thread or post appeared already.
There is one thing which is bothering and is quite illogical for me . Is it confirmed somehow this rumour about duplicating delorean during lightning struck?
Because if this was true the Marty would also be duplicated. Isn’t that right?
I have theory that delorean we saw in episode 1 was in fact this used by Doc, known before events from BTTF 2 and 3, after marty traveled back from 1955 and gave it back after Lybian shootout.
As a proof you can notice there is still a clock on time display board, which was used in the clocktower scene. I think Doc during his time traveling had installed only Mr fusion and retrieving device. And also there aren’t any allusions from Doc to what has happened in BTTF 2 and 3. f.e. saying nothing about his wife and kids.
Welcome everybody since it is my first post on this forum. I am sorry in advance if the similar thread or post appeared already.
There is one thing which is bothering and is quite illogical for me . Is it confirmed somehow this rumour about duplicating delorean during lightning struck?
Because if this was true the Marty would also be duplicated. Isn’t that right?
I have theory that delorean we saw in episode 1 was in fact this used by Doc, known before events from BTTF 2 and 3, after marty traveled back from 1955 and gave it back after Lybian shootout.
As a proof you can notice there is still a clock on time display board, which was used in the clocktower scene. I think Doc during his time traveling had installed only Mr fusion and retrieving device. And also there aren’t any allusions from Doc to what has happened in BTTF 2 and 3. f.e. saying nothing about his wife and kids.
Not Marty, but Doc would be duplicated. Doc was talking about the time lightning struck on DeLorean the second time, when it was flying in 1955, and Doc was inside.
You haven't read enough of the dialogue with Doc in his Jail cell. He mentions something along the lines of "Having trouble raising my own teenagers" after Marty asks him about Clara and the kids.
Why would Marty be duplicated if he was standing below the DeLorean and was NOT struck by lightning at all,.. if he was he'd be dead. Not duplicated.
The DeLorean in the game is a post BTTF 2, Pre BTTF 3 Delorean,..
The idea makes sense to me, and is the only reasonably logical one.
When the DeLorean was struck by lightning at the end of BTTF2,.. It caused a huge overload in the Flux capacitor, that messed up the space time continum and created 2 instances of the DeLorean.
1 went 70 years into the past... 1885
another went 70 years into the future... 2025
the one in the game is the latter. There could be 2 Doc Browns?.. Who knows, this is only episode 1... However I think becasue it was such a bizarre incident the molecular structure of 2025 Doc probably got destroyed so we're only left with a single Doc who went back to 1885, got shot, didnt get shot, married Clara, made a time train, found out about DoubleDeLorean, rescued it... went to 1931. Got arrested. New storyline.
I remember seeing the DeLorean being destroyed by a train in 1985, immediately following Doc's train travel.
But a year later, Marty arrives at the sale to find that the DeLorean is back!
So, what do you think happened to get the DeLorean back?
I think that Doc traveled back and retrieved the time machine using his Time Train.
What do you think happened?
You must of not played the game yet because Doc clearly answers this in it. You put up the Spoiler tag so I will tell you: At the end of Part 2 when the DeLorean is hit by lightning and Doc is sent to 1885, the accident created a copy of the vehicle that was deposited on the other side to 2025. The whole thing with the time circuits acting up and getting hit by a bolt of lightning unawares made two DeLoreans and sending one 70 years to the past, the other 70 years in the future. Too bad Doc wasn't in the future copy because then he could easily fix the DeLorean and have it back there just seconds later instead of just sending a note.
You must of not played the game yet because Doc clearly answers this in it. You put up the Spoiler tag so I will tell you: At the end of Part 2 when the DeLorean is hit by lightning and Doc is sent to 1885, the accident created a copy of the vehicle that was deposited on the other side to 2025. The whole thing with the time circuits acting up and getting hit by a bolt of lightning unawares made two DeLoreans and sending one 70 years to the past, the other 70 years in the future. Too bad Doc wasn't in the future copy because then he could easily fix the DeLorean and have it back there just seconds later instead of just sending a note.
Huh, I guess I didn't ask him about that, or I skipped that dialogue or something.
Thanks.
He refers to it as a temporal duplicate... Identical to the one that was struck by lightning. The lightning blast probably shorted out the flying circuits as well. Doc says that he reclaimed it from Griff Tannen before he could damage the space-time continuum and it is identical save for the bells and whistles he has added, one of which is a emergency retrieval system, which sends the delorean back to a fixed point in time where it can be collected by Marty so he can return to save Doc should he get into trouble... Hence the tape recorder with the message and the surprise Doc exhibits when he discovers Marty in the 1930s.
It feels like a cop-out, but at least it's more creatively written than simply saying "he built another one..." or "the ending to Part III has been retconned to not have it been destroyed."
I agree, I though the explanation was a fairly decent one, especially considering all the debate that went on here prior to the episode's release. It was a little 'too' convenient though, and I kind of wish that they covered the Delorean's recovery in 2025 in a little detail (who knows, maybe a future episode will be about this? Or even a prequel?)
I like how Doc worded it: It is the exact same Delorean.
He refers to it as a temporal duplicate... Identical to the one that was struck by lightning. The lightning blast probably shorted out the flying circuits as well. Doc says that he reclaimed it from Griff Tannen before he could damage the space-time continuum and it is identical save for the bells and whistles he has added, one of which is a emergency retrieval system, which sends the delorean back to a fixed point in time where it can be collected by Marty so he can return to save Doc should he get into trouble... Hence the tape recorder with the message and the surprise Doc exhibits when he discovers Marty in the 1930s.
It feels like a cop-out, but at least it's more creatively written than simply saying "he built another one..." or "the ending to Part III has been retconned to not have it been destroyed."
I disagree. The explanation made me laugh because it was so ridiculous. Frankly I would argue that building another DeLorean is COMPLETELY defensible given that the Train tends to...stand out quite a bit no matter where you take it, whereas you can at least hide the DeLorean due to it being smaller. A more practical method of time traveling when you don't need to take a large number of people, so to speak.
Whereas Doc's explanation not only sounds ridiculous, doesn't match up with anything we've seen in BTTF, but also begs the question of whether Doc was duplicated as well.
No, most likely his explanation is a cover up. Of what, we don't know yet.
The DeLorean, theorically, creates an Einstein-Rosen bridge in which each atom of the car and its occupants is transported to another location in the Space-Time Continuum. The explanation given in the Game defies the Law of Conservation of Mass: Matter and Energy (First Law of Thermodynamics) can't be created or destroyed, only transformed.
It's like a mouse going through a pipe with the shape of an "I" from one end to another, you'll get one mouse. Now, let's say the path has a "Y" shape and the mouse goes in. You won't expect a mouse coming out of each side of the pipe.
It's not like the StarGate, where it stores the traveller into its buffer and rebuilds it in the destination Gate; but, basically, a tunnel in which the car goes through to get to its destination.
That's why I find so hard to believe this explanation
The DeLorean, theorically, creates an Einstein-Rosen bridge in which each atom of the car and its occupants is transported to another location in the Space-Time Continuum. The explanation given in the Game defies the Law of Conservation of Mass: Matter and Energy (First Law of Thermodynamics) can't be created or destroyed, only transformed.
BTTF has always been Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction. It has its own crazy internal logic, but it's a logic that doesn't rely on the actual laws of science. When you try to apply things like the Einstein-Rosen bridge or the First Law of Thermodynamics to the BTTF universe, it doesn't really work, and is frankly irrelevant.
And I still don't see why that specifically should make the explanation ridiculous. Is it new information added to canon? Yes. But it doesn't contradict previously established canon in any way, shape or form, so what's the problem?
BTTF has always been Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction. It has its own crazy internal logic, but it's a logic that doesn't rely on the actual laws of science.
It's always been Fantasy, but when you incluide a scientist whose role models are Einstein, Copernicus, Edison and Newton, and a subject that plays with the use of scientific theories, you'd expect the story to follow their theories and principles in a way to make it believable. "Hot Tub Time Machine" or the "Austin Powers" sequels do not rely on this and that's why you can make all the wacky plot twist you want, because Science isn't involved or they flat-out tell you to just "enjoy the ride".
I mean, seeing BTTF, I never had to stretch my suspension of disbelief THIS much, because it never defied elementary school knowledge. They might as well make gravity 100 m/s² or inexistent as their universe is not the same as ours.
I just hope that they justify it in the next episodes.
I've said this before, and I'll say it yet again: We do NOT understand the complete ins-and-outs of BTTF-style time travel! Even Doc, the man who discovered it, doesn't fully understand it!
I've said this before, and I'll say it yet again: We do NOT understand the complete ins-and-outs of BTTF-style time travel! Even Doc, the man who discovered it, doesn't fully understand it!
And that's why I'm waiting for a detailed explanation. Every point in the Trilogy can be explained either by alternate timelines (from one view) or the same line rewriting itself (another view), or the Ripple Effect; but here, it's almost magic, where there is now more matter in the Universe than before.
It can't be like the Quantum Physics joke "Warning: Quantum Junction, get in both lanes", as one car lies in pieces in a junkyard while the other is in Doc's driveway.
I can live with this explanation. I was kind of hoping that Doc (while in 1931) would end up taking the DaLorean from the mine that he hid back in 1885 and send it to Marty somehow. Also, how did Einstein get in the car if it was a duplicate from 2025?
The lightning bolt that hit the DeLorean caused a jigowatt overload which scrambled the time circuits, activated the flux capacitor, and sent me back to 1885
Jigowatt OVERLOAD. It was probably enough power to supercharge the flux capacitor, and to answer the problem of physics, perhaps it was able to split like a quantum reality duplicate. Yes, I know, I'm getting into Star Trek territory, but I think the multiple quantum realities works best here. Since there was an equal chance for the DeLorean to go forward or backward, the overload in the flux dispersal allowed for both possibilities to occur.
Also, why are there so many people somehow assuming that Doc is lying? He has never lied to Marty about anything. Kept things from him for his own good, such as the "chicken" thing getting him in trouble in the future, but never lied.
There were only two other possible explanations for the reappearance of the DeLorean: either Doc took it from some point in the movies' timeline, or he built a new one. The former would have created a paradox no matter when he took the DeLorean from. It would have been implausible, and would not have worked within the logic of the films.
I don't think it would necessarily cause a paradox if Doc obtained the DeLorean from somewhere in the movies' timeline. We could say that when old Biff originally traveled back to 1955, gave the sports Almanac to his younger self, then returned to 2015, this should have caused a paradox because an alternate 2015 should have transformed around Marty and Doc while they were still there (in these circumstances 1985 Doc was committed, so he could not physically be in 2015 at that point with Marty). Instead, old Biff seemingly comes back to the regular 2015 before it changes to alternate 2015.
If old Biff took the Delorean away from normal 2015 and returned to alternate 2015 instead, it should create a similar paradox as the one you're talking about because he'd be returning the time machine to a different year than the one Marty and Doc are located in. But the exact way in which the future timeline adapts after specific events take place in the past has always been kept intentionally vague in the films. It has not really been established how fast changes can occur across the timeline.
Going by this particular incident, it would seem that Biff arrived back in regular 2015, instead of alternate 2015, and there was some kind of delay/buffer effect implied before 2015 transformed into a corrupt 2015. This phenomena seems to guard against paradoxes for a short while. Going by this logic, it's entirely plausible to suggest that in this game, Doc could have taken the Delorean that Marty hid behind the sign in 1955 or the one hidden in the Mine, as long as he put it back exactly as he found it. According to established canon, the timeline would allow Doc some buffer space to take and return the Delorean before a paradox occurred.
The latter many here (Origami most vocally) felt would have been a bigger cop out and "lazier" writing than the temporal duplicate explanation. So the fanbase, on this forum anyway, was already divided 50/50 about which explanation would be better. Telltale and Bob Gale actually had the audacity to think up an explanation that was intended to (but apparently did not) appease both those who wanted it to be a new DeLorean, and those who wanted the old DeLorean, since it's a little bit of both (a new version of the old DeLorean).
Well, if such a lazy "cop out" doesn't contradict canon, doesn't seem like an absurdly ridiculous explanation, and doesn't introduce the potential for physical clones (not just multiple versions of the same person in different time eras, but TWO actual physical, living and breathing Doc Browns), I'll take that lazy writing cop-out any day over this temporal duplicate nonsense!
My point is that even if it's considered lazy writing to have Doc invent a new Delorean Time Machine, at least 100% of the fan base could still accept that explanation as canon, regardless of how unoriginal it is. But is it really that important if this one (optional dialogue) part of the game is considered lazy writing? I mean surely the collective content and adventures spanned across the games is where the writing really counts. In my mind, it's better to play it safe with such 'lazy' writing than try to get too clever and make a complete mess of established canon and rules along the way. I want to like this game, but when they do this kind of thing, it makes me want to disregard it as an official continuation of the trilogy. That's how much of an issue this is to some people.
If the dream sequence was what was actually happening, none of the events in the game would be possible, since Doc disappeared and Marty would have never traveled through time in the first place.
Maybe. Or maybe not. I can think of at least one scenario that would work in making this scene a reality if the delay/buffer effect of the timeline I mentioned above is considered canon.
And I don't see what the problem with adding new information to how time travel works to the established canon is, as long as it doesn't contradict established canon. Which the temporal duplication explanation does not, since you can still watch the trilogy and everything within it is still coherent without even having to think about temporal duplication.
The problem, to me at least, is that it feels cheap and tacky. Like a dirty sucker punch. It seems like the duplication explanation was added as a band-aid solution, simply because they didn't want to put more thought into tying it into the established rules of the films, or because they wanted to provide this specific explanation because it aids some future plot device they have planned.
True, introducing new information about temporal duplication may not break the canon of the films, but neither would including a new plot device about an electric eel that can shock the car into temporal displacement, or a bunch of Michael Keaton clones that could help Doc make multiple Deloreans in a single day. Back to the Future has always had a specific meticulous "feel" and there are certain things that just don't seem right if added into the universe. The temporal duplication scenario feels like one of those things.
Yeah, there might not be a paradox if Doc "borrowed" a DeLorean. But Doc would NOT take that chance. There would always be a chance that something bad would happen to the DeLorean and he wouldn't be able to return it, which would cause a paradox.
And I grow tired of re-using my same very LOGICAL APPROACH to this. I'm this close to just copying a quote of my posts and using them every time someone accuses this explanation of being nonsense.
Well, Doc could have taken the Delorean from a previous time, cloned it manually (and quickly) in some future year when mechanical cloning technology is readily available, so that he didn't have to go to the effort of building a new DeLorean Time Machine from scratch, and then just returned the original Delorean back to where he got it with minimal risk.
Honestly, any plausible explanation like this would be better than the crummy lighting bolt duplication one that we got!
It's NOT the lightning itself that duplicated the time machine. Doc simplified the explanation because Marty's not exactly the most scientific mind in the world. The gigawatt overload that went through the flux capacitor caused the duplication, not lightning hitting the car.
It doesn't really matter what caused the impromptu duplication. Whether Doc provided the most scientific/unscientific explanation in the world, or if Thor himself caused the gigawatt overload using a lighting bolt from his fingertips, duplication is a sucky concept. For example, how many potential self-replicating Deloreans, Docs, and Martys are located across the timeline now as a result of this newly added post-trilogy information? It's an awful explanation if you ask me.
I just think that creating something from nothing is a lazy and uninspired way to explain the existence a critical item of importance like the DeLorean.
Bonito, since you dislike the temporal duplication explanation so much, I don't think we're ever going to see eye to eye on it, so I doubt it's much use to argue its merits with you. I will, however, attempt to address some of your specific points.
Going by this logic, it's entirely plausible to suggest that in this game, Doc could have taken the Delorean that Marty hid behind the sign in 1955 or the one hidden in the Mine, as long as he put it back exactly as he found it. According to established canon, the timeline would allow Doc some buffer space to take and return the Delorean before a paradox occurred.
There are two kinds of "ripple effects" in the BTTF movies: the immediate fade and the "slow fade" (or the "buffer effect", as you call it). The immediate fade happens when a time travler does something that changes the future with 100% certainty. For example, Marty burning the almanac in 1955 prevents 1985A from ever occuring, so the matchbook and newspapers immediately change. The "slow fade" happens whenever a time traveler does something that changes the future with less than 100% certainty. For example, Marty pushing George out of the way of the car, preventing his parents from meeting. The picture of him and his siblings starts to slowly fade as the probability of their conception decreases, but it is not immediately 100% certain that they will never be conceived. If post-trilogy Doc were to go in his time train to any point in the trilogy's timeline and take the DeLorean, for any length of time, this would cause an immediate change. Trilogy-era Marty and/or Doc would be stranded whenever they are, with no way to get back to 1985, and thus, no way for Doc to go back and take the DeLorean in the first place. It's a paradox. Doc "intending" to put the DeLorean back makes no difference to the timeline. The absence or time displacement of a DeLorean changes things immediately, and simply would not allow the events of the game to happen.
In my mind, it's better to play it safe with such 'lazy' writing than try to get too clever and make a complete mess of established canon and rules along the way.
Again, people keep saying this, but I just don't get it. How does the temporal duplication explanation affect already established canon, in any way? Other than adding new information to it, I mean.
The problem, to me at least, is that it feels cheap and tacky. Like a dirty sucker punch. It seems like the duplication explanation was added as a band-aid solution, simply because they didn't want to put more thought into tying it into the established rules of the films
This is where we fundamentally disagree. I feel the explanation is clever and inventive, and that they actually put a lot of thought into it.
Back to the Future has always had a specific meticulous "feel" and there are certain things that just don't seem right if added into the universe. The temporal duplication scenario feels like one of those things.
The DeLorean friggin' flew. And so did a train, for that matter. Temporal duplication seems no more ridiculous or out of place in the BTTF universe to me than a flying DeLorean or a flying train.
Well, Doc could have taken the Delorean from a previous time, cloned it manually (and quickly) in some future year when mechanical cloning technology is readily available, so that he didn't have to go to the effort of building a new DeLorean Time Machine from scratch, and then just returned the original Delorean back to where he got it with minimal risk.
Wait, so random, futuristic car cloning technology makes more sense to you than temporal duplication?
For example, how many potential self-replicating Deloreans, Docs, and Martys are located across the timeline now as a result of this newly added post-trilogy information?
Now? One DeLorean, one Marty, and one Doc (that we know of). The other DeLorean was destroyed, Marty was never in a DeLorean affected by jigowatt overload, and if Doc was duplicated, DoubleDoc either is unimportant to the story or he met some grisly demise. And the DeLorean isn't self-replicating. Doc can't send himself to two places at once at will. Assuming he still hasn't stabilized the time circuits, the DeLorean would have to be struck by lightning again and suffer another jigowatt overload.
I just think that creating something from nothing is a lazy and uninspired way to explain the existence a critical item of importance like the DeLorean.
What, like random, futuristic car cloning technology?
I suppose I may be biased since...well, I was the first one to even think of this possibility. But I too believe that it's far more clever than just saying he built a new one.
I don't know if this has been answered yet, but... if the DeLorean duplicated, and the 2025 one didn't have Doc in it, what prevented it's "Auto-Retreval" function from activating and picking up Marty in 1986? Or was this added after Doc picked it up? If it was, wouldn't that mean if an accident like this ever happened again, the duplicate would automatically travel to Marty after some time?
Maybe the duplicated Doc from 2025 never helped Marty in 1955 because he somehow discovered his 1885 counterpart already helped him. Or rather than somehow, he had no way of predicting what his 1885 version could or would do - and elected to stay in 2025 and never travel again?
Thats another thing, say for instance another explanation was given for the existence of a new Delorean and everyone was satisfied (impossible i know but stay with me ) people would end up being annoyed just as much over the idea of the Delorean having the ability to appear any place at any time without any need for getting the car up to 88 - just like it NEVER did in the films.
I think the duplication idea needs a chance to play out, to me its still a neat idea with a decent explanation but thats ALL it is at the moment which is why it feels cheap to some.
Who knows it may be all be a necessary diversion by Doc to keep Marty from discovering something
I think what sits wrong with most people is not the theory, but the explanation from Doc.
So TellTale just needs to flesh it out more and maybe confront us with the problems that happens with a duplicated DeLorean.
daeva0123, Doc wouldn't have a reason to hide something from Marty in the case of the DeLorean. It's a car made into a time machine. No reason to hide anything. And why do people assume that the DeLorean jumped from one spot in Hill Valley to another without getting up to 88 mp/h? Doc programmed it to go to those coordinates, meaning it probably was programmed to travel to Doc's house in the dead of night and hit 88 mp/h to travel to 1986.
And why do people assume that the DeLorean jumped from one spot in Hill Valley to another without getting up to 88 mp/h? Doc programmed it to go to those coordinates, meaning it probably was programmed to travel to Doc's house in the dead of night and hit 88 mp/h to travel to 1986.
Yes. You can hear the tires screeching to a halt when the DeLorean arrives at the end of the Doc's Lab scene.
I have a little question about the time travelling train, though it's not directly related with the game...
In 1885 Doc didn't have access to the parts necessary to repair his DeLorean, so how did he manage to build a brand new time travelling train? If he can't get the few materials to repair the DeLorean in 1885, then he is even less likely to have all the parts required to build a new time machine, even if the train was made from scraps of the wrecked train
Comments
There is one thing which is bothering and is quite illogical for me
Because if this was true the Marty would also be duplicated. Isn’t that right?
I have theory that delorean we saw in episode 1 was in fact this used by Doc, known before events from BTTF 2 and 3, after marty traveled back from 1955 and gave it back after Lybian shootout.
As a proof you can notice there is still a clock on time display board, which was used in the clocktower scene. I think Doc during his time traveling had installed only Mr fusion and retrieving device. And also there aren’t any allusions from Doc to what has happened in BTTF 2 and 3. f.e. saying nothing about his wife and kids.
This is already being discussed here: http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21428&page=7
Not Marty, but Doc would be duplicated. Doc was talking about the time lightning struck on DeLorean the second time, when it was flying in 1955, and Doc was inside.
Why would Marty be duplicated if he was standing below the DeLorean and was NOT struck by lightning at all,.. if he was he'd be dead. Not duplicated.
The DeLorean in the game is a post BTTF 2, Pre BTTF 3 Delorean,..
The idea makes sense to me, and is the only reasonably logical one.
When the DeLorean was struck by lightning at the end of BTTF2,.. It caused a huge overload in the Flux capacitor, that messed up the space time continum and created 2 instances of the DeLorean.
1 went 70 years into the past... 1885
another went 70 years into the future... 2025
the one in the game is the latter. There could be 2 Doc Browns?.. Who knows, this is only episode 1... However I think becasue it was such a bizarre incident the molecular structure of 2025 Doc probably got destroyed so we're only left with a single Doc who went back to 1885, got shot, didnt get shot, married Clara, made a time train, found out about DoubleDeLorean, rescued it... went to 1931. Got arrested. New storyline.
this.
I had this very same question.
But a year later, Marty arrives at the sale to find that the DeLorean is back!
So, what do you think happened to get the DeLorean back?
I think that Doc traveled back and retrieved the time machine using his Time Train.
What do you think happened?
Huh, I guess I didn't ask him about that, or I skipped that dialogue or something.
Thanks.
In fairness, it's an optional dialogue.
It feels like a cop-out, but at least it's more creatively written than simply saying "he built another one..." or "the ending to Part III has been retconned to not have it been destroyed."
I like how Doc worded it: It is the exact same Delorean.
I disagree. The explanation made me laugh because it was so ridiculous. Frankly I would argue that building another DeLorean is COMPLETELY defensible given that the Train tends to...stand out quite a bit no matter where you take it, whereas you can at least hide the DeLorean due to it being smaller. A more practical method of time traveling when you don't need to take a large number of people, so to speak.
Whereas Doc's explanation not only sounds ridiculous, doesn't match up with anything we've seen in BTTF, but also begs the question of whether Doc was duplicated as well.
No, most likely his explanation is a cover up. Of what, we don't know yet.
It's like a mouse going through a pipe with the shape of an "I" from one end to another, you'll get one mouse. Now, let's say the path has a "Y" shape and the mouse goes in. You won't expect a mouse coming out of each side of the pipe.
It's not like the StarGate, where it stores the traveller into its buffer and rebuilds it in the destination Gate; but, basically, a tunnel in which the car goes through to get to its destination.
That's why I find so hard to believe this explanation
And a new DeLorean is boring!
And I still don't see why that specifically should make the explanation ridiculous. Is it new information added to canon? Yes. But it doesn't contradict previously established canon in any way, shape or form, so what's the problem?
It's always been Fantasy, but when you incluide a scientist whose role models are Einstein, Copernicus, Edison and Newton, and a subject that plays with the use of scientific theories, you'd expect the story to follow their theories and principles in a way to make it believable. "Hot Tub Time Machine" or the "Austin Powers" sequels do not rely on this and that's why you can make all the wacky plot twist you want, because Science isn't involved or they flat-out tell you to just "enjoy the ride".
I mean, seeing BTTF, I never had to stretch my suspension of disbelief THIS much, because it never defied elementary school knowledge. They might as well make gravity 100 m/s² or inexistent as their universe is not the same as ours.
I just hope that they justify it in the next episodes.
And that's why I'm waiting for a detailed explanation. Every point in the Trilogy can be explained either by alternate timelines (from one view) or the same line rewriting itself (another view), or the Ripple Effect; but here, it's almost magic, where there is now more matter in the Universe than before.
It can't be like the Quantum Physics joke "Warning: Quantum Junction, get in both lanes", as one car lies in pieces in a junkyard while the other is in Doc's driveway.
About Einstein getting in the car, there's a thread about that point.
All right, everything's clear now. I hope they go into more detail about the whole temporal duplication, though, because that could use some work.
Jigowatt OVERLOAD. It was probably enough power to supercharge the flux capacitor, and to answer the problem of physics, perhaps it was able to split like a quantum reality duplicate. Yes, I know, I'm getting into Star Trek territory, but I think the multiple quantum realities works best here. Since there was an equal chance for the DeLorean to go forward or backward, the overload in the flux dispersal allowed for both possibilities to occur.
Also, why are there so many people somehow assuming that Doc is lying? He has never lied to Marty about anything. Kept things from him for his own good, such as the "chicken" thing getting him in trouble in the future, but never lied.
I don't think it would necessarily cause a paradox if Doc obtained the DeLorean from somewhere in the movies' timeline. We could say that when old Biff originally traveled back to 1955, gave the sports Almanac to his younger self, then returned to 2015, this should have caused a paradox because an alternate 2015 should have transformed around Marty and Doc while they were still there (in these circumstances 1985 Doc was committed, so he could not physically be in 2015 at that point with Marty). Instead, old Biff seemingly comes back to the regular 2015 before it changes to alternate 2015.
If old Biff took the Delorean away from normal 2015 and returned to alternate 2015 instead, it should create a similar paradox as the one you're talking about because he'd be returning the time machine to a different year than the one Marty and Doc are located in. But the exact way in which the future timeline adapts after specific events take place in the past has always been kept intentionally vague in the films. It has not really been established how fast changes can occur across the timeline.
Going by this particular incident, it would seem that Biff arrived back in regular 2015, instead of alternate 2015, and there was some kind of delay/buffer effect implied before 2015 transformed into a corrupt 2015. This phenomena seems to guard against paradoxes for a short while. Going by this logic, it's entirely plausible to suggest that in this game, Doc could have taken the Delorean that Marty hid behind the sign in 1955 or the one hidden in the Mine, as long as he put it back exactly as he found it. According to established canon, the timeline would allow Doc some buffer space to take and return the Delorean before a paradox occurred.
Well, if such a lazy "cop out" doesn't contradict canon, doesn't seem like an absurdly ridiculous explanation, and doesn't introduce the potential for physical clones (not just multiple versions of the same person in different time eras, but TWO actual physical, living and breathing Doc Browns), I'll take that lazy writing cop-out any day over this temporal duplicate nonsense!
My point is that even if it's considered lazy writing to have Doc invent a new Delorean Time Machine, at least 100% of the fan base could still accept that explanation as canon, regardless of how unoriginal it is. But is it really that important if this one (optional dialogue) part of the game is considered lazy writing? I mean surely the collective content and adventures spanned across the games is where the writing really counts. In my mind, it's better to play it safe with such 'lazy' writing than try to get too clever and make a complete mess of established canon and rules along the way. I want to like this game, but when they do this kind of thing, it makes me want to disregard it as an official continuation of the trilogy. That's how much of an issue this is to some people.
Maybe. Or maybe not. I can think of at least one scenario that would work in making this scene a reality if the delay/buffer effect of the timeline I mentioned above is considered canon.
The problem, to me at least, is that it feels cheap and tacky. Like a dirty sucker punch. It seems like the duplication explanation was added as a band-aid solution, simply because they didn't want to put more thought into tying it into the established rules of the films, or because they wanted to provide this specific explanation because it aids some future plot device they have planned.
True, introducing new information about temporal duplication may not break the canon of the films, but neither would including a new plot device about an electric eel that can shock the car into temporal displacement, or a bunch of Michael Keaton clones that could help Doc make multiple Deloreans in a single day. Back to the Future has always had a specific meticulous "feel" and there are certain things that just don't seem right if added into the universe. The temporal duplication scenario feels like one of those things.
And I grow tired of re-using my same very LOGICAL APPROACH to this. I'm this close to just copying a quote of my posts and using them every time someone accuses this explanation of being nonsense.
Honestly, any plausible explanation like this would be better than the crummy lighting bolt duplication one that we got!
I just think that creating something from nothing is a lazy and uninspired way to explain the existence a critical item of importance like the DeLorean.
There are two kinds of "ripple effects" in the BTTF movies: the immediate fade and the "slow fade" (or the "buffer effect", as you call it). The immediate fade happens when a time travler does something that changes the future with 100% certainty. For example, Marty burning the almanac in 1955 prevents 1985A from ever occuring, so the matchbook and newspapers immediately change. The "slow fade" happens whenever a time traveler does something that changes the future with less than 100% certainty. For example, Marty pushing George out of the way of the car, preventing his parents from meeting. The picture of him and his siblings starts to slowly fade as the probability of their conception decreases, but it is not immediately 100% certain that they will never be conceived. If post-trilogy Doc were to go in his time train to any point in the trilogy's timeline and take the DeLorean, for any length of time, this would cause an immediate change. Trilogy-era Marty and/or Doc would be stranded whenever they are, with no way to get back to 1985, and thus, no way for Doc to go back and take the DeLorean in the first place. It's a paradox. Doc "intending" to put the DeLorean back makes no difference to the timeline. The absence or time displacement of a DeLorean changes things immediately, and simply would not allow the events of the game to happen.
Again, people keep saying this, but I just don't get it. How does the temporal duplication explanation affect already established canon, in any way? Other than adding new information to it, I mean.
This is where we fundamentally disagree. I feel the explanation is clever and inventive, and that they actually put a lot of thought into it.
The DeLorean friggin' flew. And so did a train, for that matter. Temporal duplication seems no more ridiculous or out of place in the BTTF universe to me than a flying DeLorean or a flying train.
Wait, so random, futuristic car cloning technology makes more sense to you than temporal duplication?
Now? One DeLorean, one Marty, and one Doc (that we know of). The other DeLorean was destroyed, Marty was never in a DeLorean affected by jigowatt overload, and if Doc was duplicated, DoubleDoc either is unimportant to the story or he met some grisly demise. And the DeLorean isn't self-replicating. Doc can't send himself to two places at once at will. Assuming he still hasn't stabilized the time circuits, the DeLorean would have to be struck by lightning again and suffer another jigowatt overload.
What, like random, futuristic car cloning technology?
Maybe the duplicated Doc from 2025 never helped Marty in 1955 because he somehow discovered his 1885 counterpart already helped him. Or rather than somehow, he had no way of predicting what his 1885 version could or would do - and elected to stay in 2025 and never travel again?
I think the duplication idea needs a chance to play out, to me its still a neat idea with a decent explanation but thats ALL it is at the moment which is why it feels cheap to some.
Who knows it may be all be a necessary diversion by Doc to keep Marty from discovering something
So TellTale just needs to flesh it out more and maybe confront us with the problems that happens with a duplicated DeLorean.
In 1885 Doc didn't have access to the parts necessary to repair his DeLorean, so how did he manage to build a brand new time travelling train? If he can't get the few materials to repair the DeLorean in 1885, then he is even less likely to have all the parts required to build a new time machine, even if the train was made from scraps of the wrecked train