but what about Lee he wasn't even holding the most important thing in his life in his arms?
That's just it, Clementine was a very safe distance away, and Lee was trying to help Shawn, whereas Kenny ran off out-of-sight with his son instead of helping Lee after putting Duck next to Clem or something.
I loved Kenny's little speech if you gave him the silent treatment right at the end before finding the car, I think it's the most honest exchange they have. Kenny doesn't recognize Lee as having saved Katjaa and Duck, because Kenny believes he saved Lee first by killing Larry. In his mind, he's the hero.
Ugh, that makes me dislike the man even more. His taking Larry's life when they thought he was going to turn just proves him to be a hypocrite.
What Cyreen said needs a nice bolding. Every character, in order to be credible and real, needs to feel like they're the hero of the story. Villains, which I think Kenny and Lily are (interchangeably), most especially. Kenny needs a clear point of view and set of morals in the story. They run counter to Lily's equally firm stances.
I'm pretty sure Team Kenny and Team Lily is the way that Telltale is allowing you to choose your own villain. It's a shame that I like Kenny more; I can't make the decisions he does. Someone did need to kill Larry, and they needed to be hated. But just as much as he's the hero of the story, so am I, the player. I can't do that to Lily.
This decision was so many things in my head. Good vs evil, character loyalty, examining things as a writer... The best choice to me is still to let Kenny take the blame alone, even if he is right. I wish there was a line "You did the right thing. You saved us all and took a hit for us. Yes, there's gonna be fallout. But so long as you have my back as much as I have yours, we can get through this."
And then "Keep this gun with you at all times and never be alone with Lily."
That's just it, Clementine was a very safe distance away, and Lee was trying to help Shawn, whereas Kenny ran off out-of-sight with his son instead of helping Lee after putting Duck next to Clem or something.
i'm not even a parent and i can understand why he grabbed his kid and ran, first off he probably was checking to see if duck was hurt and second he didnt know hershal was going to come along just at the wrong time with a shotgun and save everyone, if he hadnt they would have all had to run from the zombies.
i dont think that a parent having their first priority being the safety of their child as a bad thing, i would in fact encourage it, even if it meant i was in danger instead of the child
The shawn scenario is kind of like a Duuuuude. Moment your annoyed but you get it. but then he insists everything is about him. I mean come on. at some point i can see Lily inviting Lee for some stress relief in liengeree. Then BOOM kennys on the other side in flower boxers with an rose in his moustache telling Lee to join him instead. It's not always about you Kenny Geez.
i'm not even a parent and i can understand why he grabbed his kid and ran, first off he probably was checking to see if duck was hurt and second he didnt know hershal was going to come along just at the wrong time with a shotgun and save everyone, if he hadnt they would have all had to run from the zombies.
i dont think that a parent having their first priority being the safety of their child as a bad thing, i would in fact encourage it, even if it meant i was in danger instead of the child
Still, he could've had Katjaa check him while he went to help Lee, she was standing right there with Clem!
Still, he could've had Katjaa check him while he went to help Lee, she was standing right there with Clem!
Clems witnessed Kenny being a dick alot. {from an immature perspective] so hypothetically The whole speech about killing bad people could be about Kenny...
I usually don't choose teams I just do what I think is right
So I was team Kenny in episode 1 because it is the good thing to help a child and stop people throwing him outside
But in episode 2 Kenny became the evil option and I was forced to go against him even though until then he considered me a good friend who always stuck by him.
I just can't kill in front of Clem or at all really
i would say it is lillys poor leadership that is the reason for no food, she had control of the food and didnt inform the others of how much they had until we start the game, and we find out we dont even have enough food for a few bites of food each, what kind of idiot would leave it until you had ran out of food before telling everyone we had ran out?,
with it only being 3 months into the apocalypse and most people dying early on there would be more food than they could eat for a year or so if they had actually looked for it, instead we stay in a near unfortified motel just so we can stay near a pharmacy, that lilly for some reason doesnt want to loot but instead use as a big medicine cabinet for her father.
Actually, I can kinda understand that. It's actually rather common in the military; for the purposes of morale, maintaining order, etc. you don't necessarily tell people exactly how bad the situation is. For example, do you think that in WWII, everybody under Gen. Zhukov's command knew that if they were on the attack and they should happen to run into an area where he knew there was an enemy minefield, his doctrine was to just have them proceed as though it weren't there? It seems counterintuitive, but it probably saved lives (time spent clearing a minefield was time they weren't attacking, and time that the enemy could reinforce the area, shell them with artillery, etc.).
In survival scenarios, keeping calm and focused is one of the most important things to do. When people start panicking, that's typically the time people start making mistakes, rash decisions, and end up dying. The group was running out of food, they hadn't actually run out yet; and if they weren't having any real success hunting or scavenging for food beforehand, putting them in a state of panic about it wasn't going to help their performance in that regard.
Also, as I've covered, the motel provides access to water (which trumps even food as a survival concern). In a survival scenario, once you find a water source, your world effectively ends up revolving around that water source... particularly since the group no longer seems to have access to any form of transportation aside from walking; that also puts something of a limit as to how much the group can carry - lugging big bins full of pills isn't exactly a great option. To a big extent, survivalism is about expending the least amount of effort you can get away with so as to conserve calories; carrying a few bottles of pills around isn't that demanding, trying to gank the entire pharmacy's stock (or even just the stuff worth taking like painkillers, antibiotics, et al.) is a different story.
Actually, I can kinda understand that. It's actually rather common in the military; for the purposes of morale, maintaining order, etc. you don't necessarily tell people exactly how bad the situation is. For example, do you think that in WWII, everybody under Gen. Zhukov's command knew that if they were on the attack and they should happen to run into an area where he knew there was an enemy minefield, his doctrine was to just have them proceed as though it weren't there? It seems counterintuitive, but it probably saved lives (time spent clearing a minefield was time they weren't attacking, and time that the enemy could reinforce the area, shell them with artillery, etc.).
In survival scenarios, keeping calm and focused is one of the most important things to do. When people start panicking, that's typically the time people start making mistakes, rash decisions, and end up dying. The group was running out of food, they hadn't actually run out yet; and if they weren't having any real success hunting or scavenging for food beforehand, putting them in a state of panic about it wasn't going to help their performance in that regard.
Also, as I've covered, the motel provides access to water (which trumps even food as a survival concern). In a survival scenario, once you find a water source, your world effectively ends up revolving around that water source... particularly since the group no longer seems to have access to any form of transportation aside from walking; that also puts something of a limit as to how much the group can carry - lugging big bins full of pills isn't exactly a great option. To a big extent, survivalism is about expending the least amount of effort you can get away with so as to conserve calories; carrying a few bottles of pills around isn't that demanding, trying to gank the entire pharmacy's stock (or even just the stuff worth taking like painkillers, antibiotics, et al.) is a different story.
but would you honestly say that it helped the group to not tell them they had ran out of food until people were dizzy from hunger and they had no food left, i would say it is a better idea to search for food while you have the energy to do it, not just wait until everybody is weak from hunger before saying i cant handle this responsibility any more because we have ran out of food now.
also that water source cant be infinite it must be in a water tower or something considering there is no power, i bet she would wait until we ran out of water before telling everybody
Well Rommel, I'm just going to walk away from the boat debate since you seem to now be going back to points I've already addressed. I explained in my last post why it's impossible for the motel to still have running water. If you want to believe it does anyway (powered by magic, I suppose), then that's your game. I've pointed out a few different ways they could get back ashore if they needed to. And if you actually believe that s'mores and bacon falling out of the sky is on the same level of realism as boats moving on water, then I just have no idea how to respond to that. But I'm not going to keep going through the same arguments, and we've strayed pretty far off-topic anyway. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Kenny doesn't recognize Lee as having saved Katjaa and Duck, because Kenny believes he saved Lee first by killing Larry. In his mind, he's the hero.
The fact that Kenny takes credit for being the hero made me mad at him probably more than anything. It's like, let's examine that statement for a minute. It was Lee who found a way out of the meat locker. Lee who faced down all of the St. Johns. Lee who rescued Katjaa and Duck. Lilly tried to revive Larry. Lilly helped Lee fight the St. Johns. Clementine crawled through the vent to let the group out of the meat locker. Heck, even Larry, the dead guy, provided the tool Lee needed to access the vent to escape. What did Kenny do? He freaked out, murdered one of our people, hid in barn stall while Lee and Lilly fought Danny, then ran directly into a gunshot. Yeah. That's the stuff of legends alright, Kenny.
Actually, I can kinda understand that. It's actually rather common in the military; for the purposes of morale, maintaining order, etc. you don't necessarily tell people exactly how bad the situation is. For example, do you think that in WWII, everybody under Gen. Zhukov's command knew that if they were on the attack and they should happen to run into an area where he knew there was an enemy minefield, his doctrine was to just have them proceed as though it weren't there?
Honestly, that rationale would just make me hate Lilly more. They're not in the military, and Lilly's not their commander. Withholding important information just so she can play general is both insulting and dangerous.
Just for the record, at the beginning of episode 2, Lilly states they have enough food to last for a week, if rationed. The food Lee handed out wasn't the LAST of the food, just that day's rations as decided by the Lilly, who wasn't "military", she worked as an administrative secretary for the military.
Team Lilly, She seems to be connecting with Clem the most and Kenny really only cares about his family, Lilly even says (depending on what you do) that she didn't agree with her dad about tossing out Duck. In the crazy ladies video at the end of episode 2 you see Lilly talking with Clem as Lee pushes a car to block one of the entrances and at the start of the episode she even smiles at her. She also protects Clem regardless of what you do to her dad. Honestly, that's my biggest reason, she seems to be the most protective of Clem after Lee.
Team Lilly, She seems to be connecting with Clem the most and Kenny really only cares about his family, Lilly even says (depending on what you do) that she didn't agree with her dad about tossing out Duck. In the crazy ladies video at the end of episode 2 you see Lilly talking with Clem as Lee pushes a car to block one of the entrances and at the start of the episode she even smiles at her. She also protects Clem regardless of what you do to her dad. Honestly, that's my biggest reason, she seems to be the most protective of Clem after Lee.
If you didn't make a choice and stayed silent, Lilly completely endorses throwing Duck out. She was smiling at her father, not Clem, at the start of the second episode, and on my second run through when I "helped" Kenny (not my preference), I did not feel good leaving Clem in the barn with Lily and I'm thankful her protection wasn't tested, particularly as she was quite prepared to watch Lee die. Watching Jolene's video was the first time I'd seen Lilly talk to Clem at all in the first two episodes; she doesn't strike me as particularly maternal.
If you didn't make a choice and stayed silent, Lilly completely endorses throwing Duck out. She was smiling at her father, not Clem, at the start of the second episode, and on my second run through when I "helped" Kenny (not my preference), I did not feel good leaving Clem in the barn with Lily and I'm thankful her protection wasn't tested, particularly as she was quite prepared to watch Lee die. Watching Jolene's video was the first time I'd seen Lilly talk to Clem at all in the first two episodes; she doesn't strike me as particularly maternal.
I know, all of what you said is true, in some plays, just a small example of all the little things that change based on the things you do. I was talking about in mine and that's what I based the decision on for my main Lee.
Just for the record, at the beginning of episode 2, Lilly states they have enough food to last for a week, if rationed. The food Lee handed out wasn't the LAST of the food, just that day's rations as decided by the Lilly, who wasn't "military", she worked as an administrative secretary for the military.
how is not feeding everyone at least a bit of food each day a good strategy for rationing food, a food lottery every day where not everybody gets some food is the most ridiculous rationing strategy ever, and anyway as i said if the food situation is so bad, it is the time to tell everyone and look for more food, not just eat less and less each day until you haven't got the energy to look for more
Well Rommel, I'm just going to walk away from the boat debate since you seem to now be going back to points I've already addressed. I explained in my last post why it's impossible for the motel to still have running water. If you want to believe it does anyway (powered by magic, I suppose), then that's your game.
Except you didn't actually address them, saying you did doesn't make it true, and anybody with eyes can see it. I've also covered why the place would have to have its own onsite supply; unless you think they're lugging around a quarter-ton of water every three days, keep open flames indoors for disinfecting it (or they're mysteriously finding bottles of Arrowhead but not canned goods) since there's no campfire outside, and the fact the farm has running water (which is one of its luxuries that nobody in Lee's group comments on), etc.
If you're going to flee the debate because you can't answer the points, that's fine, but don't be disingenuous about it. Don't lie and say you did stuff you obviously didn't.
Just for the record, at the beginning of episode 2, Lilly states they have enough food to last for a week, if rationed. The food Lee handed out wasn't the LAST of the food, just that day's rations as decided by the Lilly, who wasn't "military", she worked as an administrative secretary for the military.
Pretty much what I said, they were running low, she tells Lee as much when she has him hand out the day's rations, they hadn't actually run out yet. However, Lilly was actually in the military (Chair Force, but still), and it's not a bad standard to follow.
Of course, the thing that's kinda been nagging at me is why they apparently haven't considered going after "easy" calories if they're starving, e.g. insects like ants and crickets - far easier to find and catch, and they do add up, high in protein and calcium, etc.
...anyway as i said if the food situation is so bad, it is the time to tell everyone and look for more food, not just eat less and less each day until you haven't got the energy to look for more
But that's precisely what they were doing. Chances are that wasn't the first day they'd gone hunting. They're just not very good at it yet.
they just need to look for food, the strategy of keeping the status quo is not a good one, obviously eating bugs is a way of staying alive, but searching for canned foods in some warehouse area is a better strategy
I am not on either of those teams. If anything I want a team Lee, I would take Clem, Doug/Carley and split from that group. Way too much bad stuff has gone down and there are a lot of hard feelings. Besides I feel as if my Lee has done more to lead than those two combined.
"Clementine, honey, eat your grasshopper." I don't think they're quite there yet.
If it's a survival situation, there's no particularly good reason to exclude the option at any stage, if nothing else, it'll stretch out your supply of foods that'll keep for a while. Squeamishness about that sort of thing can end up killing you.
Seriously, if I was starving I'd eat sand off the ground if it wasn't for the fact I know there's no protein value in it.
they just need to look for food, the strategy of keeping the status quo is not a good one, obviously eating bugs is a way of staying alive, but searching for canned foods in some warehouse area is a better strategy
They've been looking for food, that wasn't exactly the first time they've been out hunting, they're just not particularly good at it. Hell, the whole reason Lilly let Mark stick around was because he happened to have enough food to feed the group in the interim.
The best strategy in a survival scenario is the one that expends the fewest calories while providing the greatest chances of success, particularly since the group no longer seems to have a working vehicle. Any warehouse that might have canned foods within walking distance of the group was also within walking distance of thousands of other people, by contrast, odds are they wouldn't have to go any further than the motel's parking lot to find an anthill.
If it's a survival situation, there's no particularly good reason to exclude the option at any stage, if nothing else, it'll stretch out your supply of foods that'll keep for a while. Squeamishness about that sort of thing can end up killing you.
Seriously, if I was starving I'd eat sand off the ground if it wasn't for the fact I know there's no protein value in it.
They've been looking for food, that wasn't exactly the first time they've been out hunting, they're just not particularly good at it. Hell, the whole reason Lilly let Mark stick around was because he happened to have enough food to feed the group in the interim.
The best strategy in a survival scenario is the one that expends the fewest calories while providing the greatest chances of success, particularly since the group no longer seems to have a working vehicle. Any warehouse that might have canned foods within walking distance of the group was also within walking distance of thousands of other people, by contrast, odds are they wouldn't have to go any further than the motel's parking lot to find an anthill.
there is no reason why there wouldn't be thousands of working cars within walking distance and obviously the calories obtained within canned goods is going to be so much more than an anthill that the effort would be worth it, the only reason they haven't moved in 3 months is because lilly didnt want to move far from the pharmacy because of larry, now he is dead they will actually get off there ass and try to survive not just stay in one place and slowly starve to death
Team Lilly, She seems to be connecting with Clem the most and Kenny really only cares about his family, Lilly even says (depending on what you do) that she didn't agree with her dad about tossing out Duck. In the crazy ladies video at the end of episode 2 you see Lilly talking with Clem as Lee pushes a car to block one of the entrances and at the start of the episode she even smiles at her. She also protects Clem regardless of what you do to her dad. Honestly, that's my biggest reason, she seems to be the most protective of Clem after Lee.
I'm not sure that briefly acknowledging Clem's existence really constitutes "protectiveness." Especially considering she was in favor of leaving Clem and everyone else that was with her to become zombie chow on the streets of Macon. It seems pretty clear to me that Lilly's compassion for anyone in the group besides Larry only extends as far as those people are willing to do whatever she tell them to and as long as they have a readily accessible food supply. In a crunch, Lilly's one of the last people I would trust Clem with.
If you're going to flee the debate because you can't answer the points, that's fine, but don't be disingenuous about it. Don't lie and say you did stuff you obviously didn't.
Sure, okay. If you have to frame it as me "fleeing the debate" to feel good about it, then you go right ahead. The fact is, I'd be more than happy to continue this debate, but I'm simply not interested in filling this thread with pages upon pages of just talking in circles. I'd certainly be willing to consider your point if you could explain to me, for instance, how a motel in a city without power could still have running water. Just repeating, "well, of course they have water" isn't much of a response. For that kind of repetition, please see my previous posts where these points were already addressed. You don't need me to create a new post for that.
Of course, the thing that's kinda been nagging at me is why they apparently haven't considered going after "easy" calories if they're starving, e.g. insects like ants and crickets - far easier to find and catch, and they do add up, high in protein and calcium, etc.
I mentioned this another thread, but part of the problem here is food prejudice. There's quite a few historical cases of starvation where there was food available that was perfectly edible, but no one thinks to eat it because it doesn't fall under their cultural definition of "food." There are other cultures that eat insects regularly. But I think in our culture, a lot of people probably would die before it occurred to them to eat bugs, unless they had some specific survival or anthropological training that covered that. They just wouldn't even consider that to be an available option. It seems to me that a lot of the trouble Lee's group is facing stems more from food prejudice than an actual lack of food.
Sure, okay. If you have to frame it as me "fleeing the debate" to feel good about it, then you go right ahead. The fact is, I'd be more than happy to continue this debate, but I'm simply not interested in filling this thread with pages upon pages of just talking in circles. I'd certainly be willing to consider your point if you could explain to me, for instance, how a motel in a city without power could still have running water. Just repeating, "well, of course they have water" isn't much of a response. For that kind of repetition, please see my previous posts where these points were already addressed. You don't need me to create a new post for that.
I mentioned this another thread, but part of the problem here is food prejudice. There's quite a few historical cases of starvation where there was food available that was perfectly edible, but no one thinks to eat it because it doesn't fall under their cultural definition of "food." There are other cultures that eat insects regularly. But I think in our culture, a lot of people probably would die before it occurred to them to eat bugs, unless they had some specific survival or anthropological training that covered that. They just wouldn't even consider that to be an available option. It seems to me that a lot of the trouble Lee's group is facing stems more from food prejudice than an actual lack of food.
It's feasible that the hotel still has water pressure. They could be in a pressure zone where no one hit a fire hydrant and depressurized the system. Even without power, water wells have back up generators that would turn on to bring system pressure back to say 100 psi then shut off. With only 10 people drinking the water it could last a long time. Since Lilly and Mark are military they probably know to add a cap full of bleech to a gallon of water for disinfection purposes...assuming they have bleech of course.
back to the boat ride, upon further consideration it may be possible that some elements of the Navy survived. Not a carrier battle group per say but a few ships since they had ocean instead of sandbags and K-rail between them and the walker hoards. Might make the trip to the coast worth the risk if you can link up with them somehow.
I'm in favor of holding off on eating bugs at this time...food prejudice mainly. It's not like the hotel is under siege by masses of walkers. Anyone can still come and go a they please. Just need to work up the nerve to search nearby cars, homes, buildings etc. I thought Kenny's truck was still working.
there is no reason why there wouldn't be thousands of working cars within walking distance and obviously the calories obtained within canned goods is going to be so much more than an anthill that the effort would be worth it, the only reason they haven't moved in 3 months is because lilly didnt want to move far from the pharmacy because of larry, now he is dead they will actually get off there ass and try to survive not just stay in one place and slowly starve to death
Any cars within walking distance of the group have been sitting unused and unmaintained in the Georgia sun for months on end; not exactly ideal conditions to keep a vehicle in running condition (particularly if the battery was old and/or weak). Plus, you'd need to find one with keys.
You missed the "greatest chances of success" part; you're far more likely to find edible bugs than unlooted cans of food while still making the expenditure (and potential risk) worth the gamble. If you could find an untouched twinkie factory that'd provide you with more calories than a few cans of food too - the problem is the "if you can find..." bit.
The pharmacy isn't the only reason Lilly's staying at the motel; it's also relatively secure, provides shelter, has access to water, etc. short of Hershel or the St. Johns farm (atleast before the fence failed), it's the best place we've seen or heard of thus far. As the saying goes "there's no ideal spot in survival", some places just tend to suck less.
Any cars within walking distance of the group have been sitting unused and unmaintained in the Georgia sun for months on end; not exactly ideal conditions to keep a vehicle in running condition (particularly if the battery was old and/or weak). Plus, you'd need to find one with keys.
You missed the "greatest chances of success" part; you're far more likely to find edible bugs than unlooted cans of food while still making the expenditure (and potential risk) worth the gamble. If you could find an untouched twinkie factory that'd provide you with more calories than a few cans of food too - the problem is the "if you can find..." bit.
The pharmacy isn't the only reason Lilly's staying at the motel; it's also relatively secure, provides shelter, has access to water, etc. short of Hershel or the St. Johns farm (atleast before the fence failed), it's the best place we've seen or heard of thus far. As the saying goes "there's no ideal spot in survival", some places just tend to suck less.
you already sound insane and the ZA hasn't started, you are far more likely to find canned food over a liveable amount of bugs to eat, cars don't just break if you don't use them and you don't need keys, survival is about energy gained over energy expended, bugs aren't as energy efficient as canned food, you could fill a car with more calories then all the bugs you could find in a week and use less energy to collect it
you already sound insane and the ZA hasn't started, you are far more likely to find canned food over a liveable amount of bugs to eat, cars don't just break if you don't use them and you don't need keys, survival is about energy gained over energy expended, bugs aren't as energy efficient as canned food, you could fill a car with more calories then all the bugs you could find in a week and use less energy to collect it
Not really, you can find bugs anywhere and everywhere; odds are you can find an anthill within a couple hundred feet of your house if you look, assuming you don't have one in your yard, likewise, crickets are pretty common. Unlooted cans of food in a disaster scenario? That's far harder (and again, where "greater chances of success" come in), that's the part you seem to miss - far more people have had access to it and likely far earlier than you did.
Put simply, you're looking at 0 calories if you can't find that canned food or it's inaccessible - you're not winning any calorie game at that rate. It's that simple.
Also, you've evidently never seen a car sit derelict for months then tried to start it. Yes, they can and do fail to start after simply sitting for that period of time, especially when unmaintained and left out in the sun in a hot climate (like say, Georgia), and particularly if the battery's old and/or weak (since it won't hold a charge). Likewise, nobody in the group has given any indication they know how to hotwire a car (oh yeah, and they lack basic tools), and they can't exactly call Triple A or Onstar either.
you can start a car with out a battery a "push start" tools will be in garages and cars as well, if we were in a group in the ZA i would go off and gather supplies with other like minded people (while eating bugs and whatever i can find) gather a car full of food and return to you and you bug eaters, then you can have some of our high calorie canned food, but that doesn't mean i wont be giving you dirty looks with each bite
edit: lol i just typed in "calories in an anthill" in google (i wondered how much there was) and i found my comments on the first page, i guess its not a common topic
Whoever is team Kenny is insane... Kenny is massively UNHINGED... He knew that killing Larry wasn't the right thing to do. Directly afterwards he even begins to state that "I... I panicked." But doesn't get it fully out. Kenny would be the first to kill anybody who threatened Duck or his wife even if they were dying/bit. Larry might have been a bit rough around the edges, some might say a pain in the neck but Lilly is for the most part the fairest and most pragmatic person in the group. She's the one who has to ration the food. Sure she goes too far sometimes but not half as far as Kenny is willing to go.
Whoever is team Kenny is insane... Kenny is massively UNHINGED... He knew that killing Larry wasn't the right thing to do. Directly afterwards he even begins to state that "I... I panicked." But doesn't get it fully out. Kenny would be the first to kill anybody who threatened Duck or his wife even if they were dying/bit. Larry might have been a bit rough around the edges, some might say a pain in the neck but Lilly is for the most part the fairest and most pragmatic person in the group. She's the one who has to ration the food. Sure she goes too far sometimes but not half as far as Kenny is willing to go.
lol you haven't played episode 3 yet have you my friend? I look forward to reading your thoughts on "team Lilly" after you've played through it. *Dis gon b gud*
lol you haven't played episode 3 yet have you my friend? I look forward to reading your thoughts on "team Lilly" after you've played through it. *Dis gon b gud*
lol you haven't played episode 3 yet have you my friend? I look forward to reading your thoughts on "team Lilly" after you've played through it. *Dis gon b gud*
Honestly, Episode 3 made me hate Kenny even more. A bunch of walkers break through the door and are all over Lee, and the jerk just looks over at the exit like he's about to leave me behind. Doesn't lift a finger to help. The only reason I didn't fight him when I had the chance was because by that point, I kind of felt sorry for the guy, given what he was going through at the time. Actually, I may do a second playthrough just so I can punch him.
It just so happens that Lilly manages to become even more unhinged than Kenny. So once again, it's Team Lee FTW.
Comments
That's just it, Clementine was a very safe distance away, and Lee was trying to help Shawn, whereas Kenny ran off out-of-sight with his son instead of helping Lee after putting Duck next to Clem or something.
Ugh, that makes me dislike the man even more. His taking Larry's life when they thought he was going to turn just proves him to be a hypocrite.
I'm pretty sure Team Kenny and Team Lily is the way that Telltale is allowing you to choose your own villain. It's a shame that I like Kenny more; I can't make the decisions he does. Someone did need to kill Larry, and they needed to be hated. But just as much as he's the hero of the story, so am I, the player. I can't do that to Lily.
This decision was so many things in my head. Good vs evil, character loyalty, examining things as a writer... The best choice to me is still to let Kenny take the blame alone, even if he is right. I wish there was a line "You did the right thing. You saved us all and took a hit for us. Yes, there's gonna be fallout. But so long as you have my back as much as I have yours, we can get through this."
And then "Keep this gun with you at all times and never be alone with Lily."
i'm not even a parent and i can understand why he grabbed his kid and ran, first off he probably was checking to see if duck was hurt and second he didnt know hershal was going to come along just at the wrong time with a shotgun and save everyone, if he hadnt they would have all had to run from the zombies.
i dont think that a parent having their first priority being the safety of their child as a bad thing, i would in fact encourage it, even if it meant i was in danger instead of the child
Still, he could've had Katjaa check him while he went to help Lee, she was standing right there with Clem!
Clems witnessed Kenny being a dick alot. {from an immature perspective] so hypothetically The whole speech about killing bad people could be about Kenny...
Episode 3 Clem Shoots Kenny.
Oh shit oh shit oh shit And DUCK'S STILL ALIVE!
So I was team Kenny in episode 1 because it is the good thing to help a child and stop people throwing him outside
But in episode 2 Kenny became the evil option and I was forced to go against him even though until then he considered me a good friend who always stuck by him.
I just can't kill in front of Clem or at all really
Actually, I can kinda understand that. It's actually rather common in the military; for the purposes of morale, maintaining order, etc. you don't necessarily tell people exactly how bad the situation is. For example, do you think that in WWII, everybody under Gen. Zhukov's command knew that if they were on the attack and they should happen to run into an area where he knew there was an enemy minefield, his doctrine was to just have them proceed as though it weren't there? It seems counterintuitive, but it probably saved lives (time spent clearing a minefield was time they weren't attacking, and time that the enemy could reinforce the area, shell them with artillery, etc.).
In survival scenarios, keeping calm and focused is one of the most important things to do. When people start panicking, that's typically the time people start making mistakes, rash decisions, and end up dying. The group was running out of food, they hadn't actually run out yet; and if they weren't having any real success hunting or scavenging for food beforehand, putting them in a state of panic about it wasn't going to help their performance in that regard.
Also, as I've covered, the motel provides access to water (which trumps even food as a survival concern). In a survival scenario, once you find a water source, your world effectively ends up revolving around that water source... particularly since the group no longer seems to have access to any form of transportation aside from walking; that also puts something of a limit as to how much the group can carry - lugging big bins full of pills isn't exactly a great option. To a big extent, survivalism is about expending the least amount of effort you can get away with so as to conserve calories; carrying a few bottles of pills around isn't that demanding, trying to gank the entire pharmacy's stock (or even just the stuff worth taking like painkillers, antibiotics, et al.) is a different story.
but would you honestly say that it helped the group to not tell them they had ran out of food until people were dizzy from hunger and they had no food left, i would say it is a better idea to search for food while you have the energy to do it, not just wait until everybody is weak from hunger before saying i cant handle this responsibility any more because we have ran out of food now.
also that water source cant be infinite it must be in a water tower or something considering there is no power, i bet she would wait until we ran out of water before telling everybody
The fact that Kenny takes credit for being the hero made me mad at him probably more than anything. It's like, let's examine that statement for a minute. It was Lee who found a way out of the meat locker. Lee who faced down all of the St. Johns. Lee who rescued Katjaa and Duck. Lilly tried to revive Larry. Lilly helped Lee fight the St. Johns. Clementine crawled through the vent to let the group out of the meat locker. Heck, even Larry, the dead guy, provided the tool Lee needed to access the vent to escape. What did Kenny do? He freaked out, murdered one of our people, hid in barn stall while Lee and Lilly fought Danny, then ran directly into a gunshot. Yeah. That's the stuff of legends alright, Kenny.
Honestly, that rationale would just make me hate Lilly more. They're not in the military, and Lilly's not their commander. Withholding important information just so she can play general is both insulting and dangerous.
If you didn't make a choice and stayed silent, Lilly completely endorses throwing Duck out. She was smiling at her father, not Clem, at the start of the second episode, and on my second run through when I "helped" Kenny (not my preference), I did not feel good leaving Clem in the barn with Lily and I'm thankful her protection wasn't tested, particularly as she was quite prepared to watch Lee die. Watching Jolene's video was the first time I'd seen Lilly talk to Clem at all in the first two episodes; she doesn't strike me as particularly maternal.
I know, all of what you said is true, in some plays, just a small example of all the little things that change based on the things you do. I was talking about in mine and that's what I based the decision on for my main Lee.
how is not feeding everyone at least a bit of food each day a good strategy for rationing food, a food lottery every day where not everybody gets some food is the most ridiculous rationing strategy ever, and anyway as i said if the food situation is so bad, it is the time to tell everyone and look for more food, not just eat less and less each day until you haven't got the energy to look for more
Except you didn't actually address them, saying you did doesn't make it true, and anybody with eyes can see it. I've also covered why the place would have to have its own onsite supply; unless you think they're lugging around a quarter-ton of water every three days, keep open flames indoors for disinfecting it (or they're mysteriously finding bottles of Arrowhead but not canned goods) since there's no campfire outside, and the fact the farm has running water (which is one of its luxuries that nobody in Lee's group comments on), etc.
If you're going to flee the debate because you can't answer the points, that's fine, but don't be disingenuous about it. Don't lie and say you did stuff you obviously didn't.
Pretty much what I said, they were running low, she tells Lee as much when she has him hand out the day's rations, they hadn't actually run out yet. However, Lilly was actually in the military (Chair Force, but still), and it's not a bad standard to follow.
Of course, the thing that's kinda been nagging at me is why they apparently haven't considered going after "easy" calories if they're starving, e.g. insects like ants and crickets - far easier to find and catch, and they do add up, high in protein and calcium, etc.
But that's precisely what they were doing. Chances are that wasn't the first day they'd gone hunting. They're just not very good at it yet.
If it's a survival situation, there's no particularly good reason to exclude the option at any stage, if nothing else, it'll stretch out your supply of foods that'll keep for a while. Squeamishness about that sort of thing can end up killing you.
Seriously, if I was starving I'd eat sand off the ground if it wasn't for the fact I know there's no protein value in it.
They've been looking for food, that wasn't exactly the first time they've been out hunting, they're just not particularly good at it. Hell, the whole reason Lilly let Mark stick around was because he happened to have enough food to feed the group in the interim.
The best strategy in a survival scenario is the one that expends the fewest calories while providing the greatest chances of success, particularly since the group no longer seems to have a working vehicle. Any warehouse that might have canned foods within walking distance of the group was also within walking distance of thousands of other people, by contrast, odds are they wouldn't have to go any further than the motel's parking lot to find an anthill.
there is no reason why there wouldn't be thousands of working cars within walking distance and obviously the calories obtained within canned goods is going to be so much more than an anthill that the effort would be worth it, the only reason they haven't moved in 3 months is because lilly didnt want to move far from the pharmacy because of larry, now he is dead they will actually get off there ass and try to survive not just stay in one place and slowly starve to death
I'm not sure that briefly acknowledging Clem's existence really constitutes "protectiveness." Especially considering she was in favor of leaving Clem and everyone else that was with her to become zombie chow on the streets of Macon. It seems pretty clear to me that Lilly's compassion for anyone in the group besides Larry only extends as far as those people are willing to do whatever she tell them to and as long as they have a readily accessible food supply. In a crunch, Lilly's one of the last people I would trust Clem with.
Sure, okay. If you have to frame it as me "fleeing the debate" to feel good about it, then you go right ahead. The fact is, I'd be more than happy to continue this debate, but I'm simply not interested in filling this thread with pages upon pages of just talking in circles. I'd certainly be willing to consider your point if you could explain to me, for instance, how a motel in a city without power could still have running water. Just repeating, "well, of course they have water" isn't much of a response. For that kind of repetition, please see my previous posts where these points were already addressed. You don't need me to create a new post for that.
I mentioned this another thread, but part of the problem here is food prejudice. There's quite a few historical cases of starvation where there was food available that was perfectly edible, but no one thinks to eat it because it doesn't fall under their cultural definition of "food." There are other cultures that eat insects regularly. But I think in our culture, a lot of people probably would die before it occurred to them to eat bugs, unless they had some specific survival or anthropological training that covered that. They just wouldn't even consider that to be an available option. It seems to me that a lot of the trouble Lee's group is facing stems more from food prejudice than an actual lack of food.
It's feasible that the hotel still has water pressure. They could be in a pressure zone where no one hit a fire hydrant and depressurized the system. Even without power, water wells have back up generators that would turn on to bring system pressure back to say 100 psi then shut off. With only 10 people drinking the water it could last a long time. Since Lilly and Mark are military they probably know to add a cap full of bleech to a gallon of water for disinfection purposes...assuming they have bleech of course.
back to the boat ride, upon further consideration it may be possible that some elements of the Navy survived. Not a carrier battle group per say but a few ships since they had ocean instead of sandbags and K-rail between them and the walker hoards. Might make the trip to the coast worth the risk if you can link up with them somehow.
I'm in favor of holding off on eating bugs at this time...food prejudice mainly. It's not like the hotel is under siege by masses of walkers. Anyone can still come and go a they please. Just need to work up the nerve to search nearby cars, homes, buildings etc. I thought Kenny's truck was still working.
Any cars within walking distance of the group have been sitting unused and unmaintained in the Georgia sun for months on end; not exactly ideal conditions to keep a vehicle in running condition (particularly if the battery was old and/or weak). Plus, you'd need to find one with keys.
You missed the "greatest chances of success" part; you're far more likely to find edible bugs than unlooted cans of food while still making the expenditure (and potential risk) worth the gamble. If you could find an untouched twinkie factory that'd provide you with more calories than a few cans of food too - the problem is the "if you can find..." bit.
The pharmacy isn't the only reason Lilly's staying at the motel; it's also relatively secure, provides shelter, has access to water, etc. short of Hershel or the St. Johns farm (atleast before the fence failed), it's the best place we've seen or heard of thus far. As the saying goes "there's no ideal spot in survival", some places just tend to suck less.
you already sound insane and the ZA hasn't started, you are far more likely to find canned food over a liveable amount of bugs to eat, cars don't just break if you don't use them and you don't need keys, survival is about energy gained over energy expended, bugs aren't as energy efficient as canned food, you could fill a car with more calories then all the bugs you could find in a week and use less energy to collect it
Not really, you can find bugs anywhere and everywhere; odds are you can find an anthill within a couple hundred feet of your house if you look, assuming you don't have one in your yard, likewise, crickets are pretty common. Unlooted cans of food in a disaster scenario? That's far harder (and again, where "greater chances of success" come in), that's the part you seem to miss - far more people have had access to it and likely far earlier than you did.
Put simply, you're looking at 0 calories if you can't find that canned food or it's inaccessible - you're not winning any calorie game at that rate. It's that simple.
Also, you've evidently never seen a car sit derelict for months then tried to start it. Yes, they can and do fail to start after simply sitting for that period of time, especially when unmaintained and left out in the sun in a hot climate (like say, Georgia), and particularly if the battery's old and/or weak (since it won't hold a charge). Likewise, nobody in the group has given any indication they know how to hotwire a car (oh yeah, and they lack basic tools), and they can't exactly call Triple A or Onstar either.
edit: lol i just typed in "calories in an anthill" in google (i wondered how much there was) and i found my comments on the first page, i guess its not a common topic
but 100 grams of cricket contains: 121 calories
lol you haven't played episode 3 yet have you my friend? I look forward to reading your thoughts on "team Lilly" after you've played through it. *Dis gon b gud*
This
Honestly, Episode 3 made me hate Kenny even more. A bunch of walkers break through the door and are all over Lee, and the jerk just looks over at the exit like he's about to leave me behind. Doesn't lift a finger to help. The only reason I didn't fight him when I had the chance was because by that point, I kind of felt sorry for the guy, given what he was going through at the time. Actually, I may do a second playthrough just so I can punch him.
It just so happens that Lilly manages to become even more unhinged than Kenny. So once again, it's Team Lee FTW.
You leave Kenny out of this. He's my bro. He's up to saving my life 4 times now.
Does anything really change, can you bring her with you to the train?