I was team Kenny until episode 2. His all or nothing attitude made me mad. Plus, Lilly actually seemed to be kinder and more rational in regards to the farm. She got a weird vibe, wanted food to go, and I was with her on both sentiments.
It's kind of interesting how the percentage points of the Kenny-supporters increased after the release of Episode 3.
It's team Clementine for me since the Salt-Kenny-Larry incidence at the end of episode 2.
Ep 1:
The events of each episode has had me pacing back and forth. By the end of episode 1 Kenny felt like a true equal. Someone that had issues and ideas in common with Lee. Like the guy that would help if he was free to help. Which felt proven right when he lifted me up and out the Pharmacy. Needless to say, I was pro-Kenny.
Ep 2:
Episode 2 started me out with sitting on the fence where I wanted to think about the present rather than worry about what we do if we find MORE survivors later. Lilly seemed a lot more calm in this episode and she appeared to show a side that I never caught in the first episode. I try to keep as many people alive as I can so long as those people arn't more dangerous to us alive. I tried to save Larry and in doing so was hoping to gain Lillys favour, and therefore hopefully some leverage to keep her under control (and perhaps even Larry).
Kennys lack of patience for Larry had me pissed in quite a major way. And other than those few seconds of shock and self-disgust, Kenny remained adamant that he took the only correct answer. He later just stood by and watched as Danny was having the advantage over me in the fight, of course in reaction to my compassion about Larry. And then he proceeded to wander off with little communication or planning. He went dark.
I turned down the looting of the car later on but I hold absolutely nothing against Kenny and his family picking it up. Infact the devil inside me hoped he would make the opposite choice. As for Lilly at that point, she seemed very out of character. She had an "only look after ourselves and f*** the rest" at the start, very vocal about letting Ben and his company in, but when it comes to looting an abandoned car she sees it as "wrong"?
While I agreed on the second point, she doesn't seem to know what she wants, and overall I didn't think her experience at the farm could change her perspective for long. At this point however, I was now on Team Lilly.
Ep 3:
Well where to start. Kenny made it clear to me that he was hoping Lilly would lighten the tension. Very much agreed. Also on his approach to handling the screaming woman, seeing as how she was already bit before I had the choice. We had a bunch of people counting on us to make it back safe, she wasn't going to.
With the impending threat of bandits in mind, I was starting to see things Kennys way, in terms of moving. Lilly scored some points by trusting me with what she'd learned about our supplies. Not stable enough to treat her as I treated Kenny in Ep 1 but still.
The decider was up next when we took off in the RV. Her jump to conclusions was way beyond rational. To my suprise she didn't suspect for a second that Kenny or his family seemed to have a motive. It was straight to Carley and then Ben.
She then shot Carley in the face. She felt what she did was right. On a personal note, my Lee was getting emotionally involved with Carley. She used the fact that me and Kenny were both murderers to justify her own actions. But the difference was:
-She shot someone who was nowhere near close to becoming an immediate threat.
-The person she was looking for was the only reason those bandits didn't come sooner.
-It was an emotionally driven, intended, unnecessary murder.
-And most importantly, although we didn't know it at the time, she did NOT accomplish her goal because she killed the wrong person entirely.
The reason for Carleys death was unforgivable and was a massive blow to me. Lilly was beyond my control despite everything. All care for her well-being was trashed. She was now one of those people that were more dangerous to us alive than dead. She was left behind. The fact she said "But I'll die" was laughable. I confused her self-centeredness just as a strong will initially. It made me feel I had taken the wrong side in EP 2. Had it been a choice I would've took the time to tie her to a tree.
Even though recent events made me feel like I owed Kenny, I fought him in the drivers cabin. He wouldn't budge, in opposition to everyones best interest.
With little left to lose, I lent Kenny as much support as he needed. With some regret of not taking his side more in Ep 2 (except with Larry), I felt we were moving back into eachothers good books. For now it's team Kenny again, and feels more set in stone.
But time will tell if a new division will arise with these new members on board. Even Bens allegiance still seems entirely ambiguous. If he ever hides anything again, the only way he'll be following us is if we all go to hell as a result.
I'm glad I switched over to team Kenny before this episode came out. My initial reaction was to save Lilly's dad, but after seeing what she does to Carly, I'm never gonna try and save that old fuck. Besides, with everything that happens, Kenny definitely needs a friend right now (poor guy.)
I like the theory. But, you appear to be wrong. Even if you help Lilly instead of abandonning her in episode 3 she runs off and steals all your supplies in the RV.
Telltale is pretty inconsistent with the characters.
Ep 1 Kenny is OK Lilly is fine
Ep2 Kenny is a complete douchebag and Lilly is the only choice
Ep3 Lilly goes crazy and murders groupmembers so you have to go with Kenny.
Team Lily, of course. Kenny brought all the shit on this group. Except for Mark and Doug, he's like directly and indirectly responsible for each death in this group. Everything fell apart because of him.
I've been Team Lilly since she came into the game, and even in episode 3 i STILL support her. I'd rather have got it in with her than Carley.Lilly is a great leader and always did what's best for the group, even though she had tough decisions to make...Seemed like she was always stressed out cause of it, but when you talked to her one on one, she's a caring genuine person. I could never be on Team Kenny cause of what he did to Lilly's dad and how in episode 3 he almost left Lee to die under that door! The reason why Lilly is the way she is in episode 3 was all Kenny's fault for being too stubborn and rash killing her father without regarding Lilly's feelings...he wasn't even gonna turn i bet.
I've been Team Lilly since she came into the game, and even in episode 3 i STILL support her. I'd rather have got it in with her than Carley.Lilly is a great leader and always did what's best for the group, even though she had tough decisions to make...Seemed like she was always stressed out cause of it, but when you talked to her one on one, she's a caring genuine person. I could never be on Team Kenny cause of what he did to Lilly's dad and how in episode 3 he almost left Lee to die under that door! The reason why Lilly is the way she is in episode 3 was all Kenny's fault for being too stubborn and rash killing her father without regarding Lilly's feelings...he wasn't even gonna turn i bet.
Well the thing is, we didn't know if he was gonna turn, or if he was even dead. Kenny killed Larry because he had a hunch. Carley was no threat to Lilly yet she shot her in the face at point-blank just because she had a hunch, although I think what Lilly did was worse. Yes, she is a nice person when you talk to her but she seems to have become more rational like Kenny.
It seems they could take a page out of Lee's book and actually try to evaluate the situation before acting too swiftly.
I've been Team Lilly since she came into the game, and even in episode 3 i STILL support her. I'd rather have got it in with her than Carley.Lilly is a great leader and always did what's best for the group, even though she had tough decisions to make...Seemed like she was always stressed out cause of it, but when you talked to her one on one, she's a caring genuine person. I could never be on Team Kenny cause of what he did to Lilly's dad and how in episode 3 he almost left Lee to die under that door! The reason why Lilly is the way she is in episode 3 was all Kenny's fault for being too stubborn and rash killing her father without regarding Lilly's feelings...he wasn't even gonna turn i bet.
Wow, I'm not alone it seems
Don'tLickTheSaltLick, you see it that way, but to me having a traitor in the group who brought 15 bandits + walkers is much bigger threat than having Larry possible turn and possible hurt anyone.
Well the thing is, we didn't know if he was gonna turn, or if he was even dead. Kenny killed Larry because he had a hunch. Carley was no threat to Lilly yet she shot her in the face at point-blank just because she had a hunch, although I think what Lilly did was worse. Yes, she is a nice person when you talk to her but she seems to have become more rational like Kenny.
It seems they could take a page out of Lee's book and actually try to evaluate the situation before acting too swiftly.
Lilly actually shot Carley because of what Carley said to her, in the moments leading up to it. It was a act of utter rage on Lilly's part. Her ego was broken plus she was dealign with the loss of her dad. She just used the bandit/traitor thing as fuel to the fire. Either that, or she had her mind made up any way.
Team Kenny all the way tho. I hated Lilly and her dad. Both assholes, altho Lilly was the more likable of the two.
It's funny also how because of Carley's death everybody forgets how Kenny was screaming "Leave Lily, let's go leave her". He was ready to let her die in there after she actually saved our asses.
People really look at this one only way. Carley was the scapegoat of all the problems in the group. She never really helped solving any of them so until I found out it was Ben I thought it could've been Carley as well. Those problems were there long before Carley died...
Idk, I've been team Lilly from the start because of how badass she is in the comics. I've really been enjoying watching her slip and learning a little more about how she came to be the ruthless-survivor type that Rick meets.
Idk, I've been team Lilly from the start because of how badass she is in the comics. I've really been enjoying watching her slip and learning a little more about how she came to be the ruthless-survivor type that Rick meets.
Absolutely. Can't wait for the book The Road to Woodbury to find out more about her.
Before every episode, this message pops up: The game series adapts to the choices you make. The story is tailored by how you play.
Before I go into Episode 3, I that it's important to highlight episode 1 and 2.
Episode 1:
Episode 1 was all about starting relationships. You determined what kind of attitude Lee would have, how you treated Clem, and got to meet the characters you'd be spending most of the game with. This episode was brilliant in that you spent just enough time doing things with each character that you just started to get attached. Then, everything comes to a head at the end of the episode. You have to choose between Doug and Carley.
Choices that mattered: (In the scope of the entire game)
-Doug vs Carley
-Took Larry's or Kenny's side entering the drug store
-Act like a jerk to Clem or treat her well
-Be honest to the group or dishonest
Episode 2:
Episode 2 further strengths or weakens the relationships you have started. At this point, you really have to choose between Kenny or Lilly. You agree or disagree about leaving the hotel and, in a more shocking moment, determine if you will murder Larry because he "might" turn into a zombie. It really forces you to decide if you're willing to do whatever it takes to minimize risks and selfishly look out for just yourself and Clem or if you're going to do your best to help others despite the consequences.
After leaving the farm, Kenny confronts you about what choice you made in the freezer. "There's going to be fallout," he said. And I believed him.
Choices that mattered:
-Tried to save Larry or helped kill him
-Be honest or dishonest
-Continue to treat Clem well or treat her poorly
-Further travel along the path of the "dark side" by acting like a violent, selfish murderer that probably belonged in prison or continue to be a good person
Episode 3: Kenny vs Lilly
The choices you made in the first two games have been leading up to this moment.
But... where's the fallout? Lilly treats you almost the same regardless of killing Larry or not. It's ok though, I'm sure something will happen later.
Bandits ruin your day and you leave the hotel in the RV. The RV stops further along the road and it's time for Lilly to confront Ben.
Lilly has snapped, and with everything that has happened... combined with Larry's death... understandably so. Unfortunately, she snaps too far and pulls out a gun.
Can I convince her to put it down? I mean, I've been in camp Lilly since the beginning! I've treated Larry the best I could despite him being a jerk to me, I tried to help Lilly save the guy, and I did agree that we should stay at the hotel. I wasn't even a skeptic about the traitor; I trusted her and agreed to help find the guy.
Does any of that matter? Did any of the choices I make affect the game or was it tailored to how I played?
No. She shoots at Ben, killing Doug, regardless. (Or, uncharacteristically, shoots Carley in the face.) If you were a jerk to Lilly and sided with Kenny every time she shoots at Ben. If you treated Lilly like she was Jesus and made the best decisions of all time she still shoots at Ben.
I'm... I'm sure your relationship with Kenny and Lilly gets resolved later right? Probably when deciding what to do with Lilly?
Nope. Lilly kicks you out of the RV and leaves when you get to the train. The game even gives you a small hope that maybe there's a choice when you can "agree" to go with her, but then she still boots you out. The heck?! Why would Lilly just leave me with "fair-weather friend" Kenny after all I've done for her?
The decisions with, seemingly, the most lasting consequences in the first two episodes now don't matter. Lilly will go crazy and kill Doug or Carley regardless of what you did, and will leave you regardless of what you did. You now have no reason to replay episode 1 or 2 to do things differently.
What if, instead of butchering any decision making you had done the first two games, the game now splits into two paths? What if, when you're exploring the train with Lilly/Clem Kenny hops into the RV with his family and drives off? From a story standpoint this even makes sense. If you've taken Lilly's side every time maybe KENNY panics and believes he can't trust you two and leaves. Sure, they would have had to keep up with writing dialogue for both Kenny and Lilly but with a two and a half month wait (despite originally being promised a monthly wait) between episodes, they could easily keep up with it. They wouldn't have even had to worry about Duck and Kat dialogue anymore.
What if, instead of going berserk, you can convince Lilly to stand down? Sure, Doug/Carley could still die. Deaths happen. But they could die later in the episode in a different way or even in another episode. Heck, maybe they make it the entire way.
But NO. The writers don't want Doug/Carley to live and wanted to get rid of Lilly. After playing through the first few episodes thinking that choices I made mattered, episode 3 was all about the choice of the writers. Every choice you made regarding your crew is ruined in 10 minutes.
The final straw for me was the finale of Episode 3. The game presents Omir and Christie both in danger, ruining beside the train. I immediately thought back to episode 1.
"I can only choose one again," I thought. I choose Christie. Omir still makes it. Okay, so what was the point of this choice? One of them makes a comment at me that I should have saved the other first? That's the "game altering" choice I'm making now? This is tailor the game to this choice?
You know what the game is about now? The writers' choices, not yours. The writers choose Kenny or Lilly for you this episode, not you. The game is now NOT tailored to how you play and the decisions to make don't matter.
Choices that mattered:
-Clem is wearing or not wearing new clothing.
The game series adapts to the choices the writers make. The story is an interactive movie.
I totally agree. Episode three sort of threw every thing you did in with character relationships in the previous ones out the window. They dont even matter anymore.
The game series adapts to the choices the writers make. The story is an interactive movie.
You realize with the wording they give before every episode, it could be in reference to just the dialogue choices you make and still be accurate, right?
The dialogue affects who Lee is perceived by other people and how they interact with him. Hence the game is being tailored to those decisions and how you're playing Lee.
You obviously expected a hell of a lot more from it and I'm sure you feel mislead, but in reality it is exactly what they advertise it as.
I totally agree. Episode three sort of threw every thing you did in with character relationships in the previous ones out the window. They dont even matter anymore.
i dont think they expected us to feel responsible for the whole group, if you just think of it as a story about one person (Lee) and his sidekick (Clementine), everything that happens only matters to lee and Clementine, so people dying didn't affect those people, it affected Lee.
but that isn't how most people saw it, i saw Lee as me and i wanted to affect the world around me to suit me, not have the world affect me
The dialogue affects who Lee is perceived by other people and how they interact with him. Hence the game is being tailored to those decisions and how you're playing Lee.
Expect that even with this interpretation, it doesn't. Despite how people perceive you and how you interact with others, the exact same scenario happens in Episode 3 in exactly the same way. People treat Lee the same regardless of the dialogue.
Honestly, with how long we have to wait between episodes and lack of communication from TT in general I don't expect too much. I just know that I sure as heck am not going to buy an episodic game anymore and definitely wouldn't be purchasing episode 4 or 5 as a standalone after episode 3. The only reason I'm seeing this through is because the package included the last two episodes.
The game feels like it ended at 3. The only thing left is finding Clem's parents.
Oh yeah, and she didn't trust you enough to tell you about the radio despite how you treated her. Huh. I guess she could have told you instead of you finding out at the end of Episode 3 if she trusted you or something, but that would have meant something you did mattered.
Expect that even with this interpretation, it doesn't. Despite how people perceive you and how you interact with others, the exact same scenario happens in Episode 3 in exactly the same way. People treat Lee the same regardless of the dialogue.
Honestly, with how long we have to wait between episodes and lack of communication from TT in general I don't expect too much. I just know that I sure as heck am not going to buy an episodic game anymore and definitely wouldn't be purchasing episode 4 or 5 as a standalone after episode 3. The only reason I'm seeing this through is because the package included the last two episodes.
The game feels like it ended at 3. The only thing left is finding Clem's parents.
Oh yeah, and she didn't trust you enough to tell you about the radio despite how you treated her. Huh. I guess she could have told you instead of you finding out at the end of Episode 3 if she trusted you or something, but that would have meant something you did mattered.
Really? In my play through, if I kept
Lilly along, when she steals the RV I get dialogue about how she could have killed me when my back was to her getting the pencil.
I was pro Kenny the whole time. If I was pro Lilly, I heard
she offers to take you and Clem along to get you to leave the RV instead before taking off.
Same outcome, 2 different tailored experiences.
I've also read from pro lilly players that in the beginning of 3 when you're in the drug store,
Kenny watches while you're stuck under the door.
In my playthrough,
he helps me push the door off to escape.
Same outcome, 2 different tailored experiences.
As I said, you're expecting more than you're getting from their description of the game. It is however, just as they advertise.
I get it Fluffy, you think you're some tough b*tch don't you? Like Telltale can't hurt you, but you're just a scared little poster. Get the f*ck over it.
*Fluffy stares at BourbonTeacup menacingly*
Take a page from ShadowFlux's book and try seeing it from their perspective for once.
*Fluffy pops a cap in my skull*
I hope Fluffy you've seen the Carley version of the scene to get that, and I'm kidding around but I do honestly think that while a lot of the choices didn't change much, a lot of choices seem more about defining Lee, not changing the world around him. Like the choice with that girl at the start, are you survivor at all costs, letting her die painfully just to reduce risk, or are you a compassionate killer, executing her but easing her suffering. Not every choice has to shape everyone else, sometimes it just shows what sort of man you are.
I totally agree. I love the series so far, but I am getting really disappointed with how little your choices matter. It's their story not yours whatever they want to happen will. I'm assuming if you don't save Duck in episode 1 he still lives? I didn't know that at the time. And try to save Larry or not he dies. Allow Lilly to stay or not you lose her. Meet total strangers and whether you trust them or not they join the group. Whether you want to hurt Ben over what he did you can't do anything about it. Nothing you do really matters at all.
I'll see things from his perspective... with the bloody end of an axe handle maybe!
Seriously though, how Lilly/Carley/Doug played out is still just poor writing in my book. It's completely obvious that the writers just wanted Lilly and Carley/Doug gone. The hints and actions that characters take depending on what you say had no affect on Lilly's departure or Doug/Carley's life.
The entire game, especially from episode 2 onwards, has had this "Kenny vs Lilly" vibe that ends in episode 3. The ending is the same, no matter what way you look at it. It makes no sense that Lilly would offer to take you and then just leaves you. It makes no sense that we've gotten along great yet she still pulls a gun out. The ONLY way it makes sense is if you have sided with Kenny the entire time.
It felt like, and should have been, that we would have to choose once and for all Kenny or Lilly. That there should have been two sides. That Kenny should have been the one freaking out, just like Lilly did, and eventually left us with his family and we advanced with Lilly instead of him. Forget people who liked Lilly though, because you got chosen for you.
The writers wanted Lilly and Doug/Carley gone and for Kenny to be your only remaining bro and, screw the players who liked Lilly, they did it. Why even have this whole "Lilly vs Kenny" debate over the previous episodes if Lilly is just going to leave regardless? Why even hint that it's going to be some big confrontation when there's only one conclusion in the final confrontation that you can't change?
I totally agree. I love the series so far, but I am getting really disappointed with how little your choices matter. It's their story not yours whatever they want to happen will. I'm assuming if you don't save Duck in episode 1 he still lives? I didn't know that at the time. And try to save Larry or not he dies. Allow Lilly to stay or not you lose her. Meet total strangers and whether you trust them or not they join the group. Whether you want to hurt Ben over what he did you can't do anything about it. Nothing you do really matters at all.
When you hear the company name "TellTale" what do you think of?
I think of being Told a tale through their games, they have a bit of a niche market in games. If you make the decisions and change the story, they're not really telling a tale now are they?
Look, we can view this logically (based on value).
Most people want to change the destination of this story instead of enjoying the ride with having some colorful input.
Right there you're looking at something most or all $60 can't produce, from a $24.99/season game (14.99 on sale).
Everyone seems to be asking for $60 + several DLC worth of content from a $24.99 price point. It's just not going to happen, and it doesn't fit what this company does.
Huge lol at ShadowFlux there. If you really think that branching dialogue with the same outcome is equal to the story is tailored by how you play, then it sounds an awful lot like post-purchase rationalization to me... and TTG's shabby marketing terms.
Huge lol at ShadowFlux there. If you're really think that branching dialogue with the same outcome is equal to the story is tailored by how you play, then it sounds an awful lot like post-purchase rationalization to me... and TTG's shabby marketing terms.
dubesor posted this in another thread:
What everyone is realistically asking for: Example 1. From a $24.99 game. Not. Going. To. Happen.
Example 2. Seems logical, but as I stated in that thread, that leaves you in 2 separate spots for when season 2 picks up. Right there, that's another big problem and will push the game towards example one as seasons progress (if you end up with more than 2). Which is also, not likely.
Example 3. I think is an over-dramatization of what we do have, I see it more as branching out and reconnecting in a diamond shape (thus far) from the point where you choose Carley/Doug to when they die.
I think you're going through a pre-purchase misunderstanding and a post-purchase regret based on said misunderstanding, instead of accepting it for what it is.
all adventure games are just basically flow charts, what is so hard about adding a few branches.
sure it would add production time for new scenes and characters, and writing a story for many branches would be complicated, but it's not impossible.
they should have just called it an interactive story and we would have never expected any more.
i have basically accepted that this game is just an interactive story (i still hold out a little hope of more) but i still want a game where choices actually matter, so maybe for season 2 telltale could start figuring out how to do that.
all adventure games are just basically flow charts, what is so hard about adding a few branches.
sure it would add production time for new scenes and characters, and writing a story for many branches would be complicated, but it's not impossible.
they should have just called it an interactive story and we would have never expected any more.
i have basically accepted that this game is just an interactive story (i still hold out a little hope of more) but i still want a game where choices actually matter, so maybe for season 2 telltale could start figuring out how to do that.
Right, but most adventure games with larger flow charts (most likely) come with larger price tags.
Impossible? No, but you're going to have to reach deeper into your pockets to get it - especially to get it to the scope it seems most people would like it to be. I'm almost believing people honestly expect a sandbox zombie apocalypse experience for their $25.
If it doesn't come down to understanding your choices just change how Lee is reacted towards throughout the game, then it's got to be about understanding what you're getting for the price you paid.
Either way, to me, it matches what they've advertised.
Right, but most adventure games with larger flow charts (most likely) come with larger price tags.
Impossible? No, but you're going to have to reach deeper into your pockets to get it - especially to get it to the scope it seems most people would like it to be. I'm almost believing people honestly expect a sandbox zombie apocalypse experience for their $25.
If it doesn't come down to understanding your choices just change how Lee is reacted towards throughout the game, then it's got to be about understanding what you're getting for the price you paid.
Either way, to me, it matches what they've advertised.
don't go mad and extend my "what is so hard about adding a few branches" to "expect a sandbox zombie apocalypse experience" it is you who is rationalising misleading advertisement, and as i said i like the walking dead game, but i would like a game where choices matter aswell
and all DLC makes me sick, a Carley lives DLC would make me RAGE!!
Comments
No, she steals the RV once you grab the pencil.
Episode 2: Leaning on Lily
Episode3 : Lily at first, then Kenny again...cause... YOU KNOW
It's kind of interesting how the percentage points of the Kenny-supporters increased after the release of Episode 3.
It's team Clementine for me since the Salt-Kenny-Larry incidence at the end of episode 2.
hmm maybe a spoiler there
yeah i know right ? BAD CLEM !
Ep 1:
The events of each episode has had me pacing back and forth. By the end of episode 1 Kenny felt like a true equal. Someone that had issues and ideas in common with Lee. Like the guy that would help if he was free to help. Which felt proven right when he lifted me up and out the Pharmacy. Needless to say, I was pro-Kenny.
Ep 2:
Episode 2 started me out with sitting on the fence where I wanted to think about the present rather than worry about what we do if we find MORE survivors later. Lilly seemed a lot more calm in this episode and she appeared to show a side that I never caught in the first episode. I try to keep as many people alive as I can so long as those people arn't more dangerous to us alive. I tried to save Larry and in doing so was hoping to gain Lillys favour, and therefore hopefully some leverage to keep her under control (and perhaps even Larry).
Kennys lack of patience for Larry had me pissed in quite a major way. And other than those few seconds of shock and self-disgust, Kenny remained adamant that he took the only correct answer. He later just stood by and watched as Danny was having the advantage over me in the fight, of course in reaction to my compassion about Larry. And then he proceeded to wander off with little communication or planning. He went dark.
I turned down the looting of the car later on but I hold absolutely nothing against Kenny and his family picking it up. Infact the devil inside me hoped he would make the opposite choice. As for Lilly at that point, she seemed very out of character. She had an "only look after ourselves and f*** the rest" at the start, very vocal about letting Ben and his company in, but when it comes to looting an abandoned car she sees it as "wrong"?
While I agreed on the second point, she doesn't seem to know what she wants, and overall I didn't think her experience at the farm could change her perspective for long. At this point however, I was now on Team Lilly.
Ep 3:
Well where to start. Kenny made it clear to me that he was hoping Lilly would lighten the tension. Very much agreed. Also on his approach to handling the screaming woman, seeing as how she was already bit before I had the choice. We had a bunch of people counting on us to make it back safe, she wasn't going to.
With the impending threat of bandits in mind, I was starting to see things Kennys way, in terms of moving. Lilly scored some points by trusting me with what she'd learned about our supplies. Not stable enough to treat her as I treated Kenny in Ep 1 but still.
The decider was up next when we took off in the RV. Her jump to conclusions was way beyond rational. To my suprise she didn't suspect for a second that Kenny or his family seemed to have a motive. It was straight to Carley and then Ben.
She then shot Carley in the face. She felt what she did was right. On a personal note, my Lee was getting emotionally involved with Carley. She used the fact that me and Kenny were both murderers to justify her own actions. But the difference was:
-She shot someone who was nowhere near close to becoming an immediate threat.
-The person she was looking for was the only reason those bandits didn't come sooner.
-It was an emotionally driven, intended, unnecessary murder.
-And most importantly, although we didn't know it at the time, she did NOT accomplish her goal because she killed the wrong person entirely.
The reason for Carleys death was unforgivable and was a massive blow to me. Lilly was beyond my control despite everything. All care for her well-being was trashed. She was now one of those people that were more dangerous to us alive than dead. She was left behind. The fact she said "But I'll die" was laughable. I confused her self-centeredness just as a strong will initially. It made me feel I had taken the wrong side in EP 2. Had it been a choice I would've took the time to tie her to a tree.
Even though recent events made me feel like I owed Kenny, I fought him in the drivers cabin. He wouldn't budge, in opposition to everyones best interest.
With little left to lose, I lent Kenny as much support as he needed. With some regret of not taking his side more in Ep 2 (except with Larry), I felt we were moving back into eachothers good books. For now it's team Kenny again, and feels more set in stone.
But time will tell if a new division will arise with these new members on board. Even Bens allegiance still seems entirely ambiguous. If he ever hides anything again, the only way he'll be following us is if we all go to hell as a result.
Telltale is pretty inconsistent with the characters.
Ep 1 Kenny is OK Lilly is fine
Ep2 Kenny is a complete douchebag and Lilly is the only choice
Ep3 Lilly goes crazy and murders groupmembers so you have to go with Kenny.
Well the thing is, we didn't know if he was gonna turn, or if he was even dead. Kenny killed Larry because he had a hunch. Carley was no threat to Lilly yet she shot her in the face at point-blank just because she had a hunch, although I think what Lilly did was worse. Yes, she is a nice person when you talk to her but she seems to have become more rational like Kenny.
It seems they could take a page out of Lee's book and actually try to evaluate the situation before acting too swiftly.
Wow, I'm not alone it seems
Don'tLickTheSaltLick, you see it that way, but to me having a traitor in the group who brought 15 bandits + walkers is much bigger threat than having Larry possible turn and possible hurt anyone.
Team Kenny all the way tho. I hated Lilly and her dad. Both assholes, altho Lilly was the more likable of the two.
Conservative?
I'm from the UK and as a rule conservatives don't shoot people in the head for no reason.
Cat Gun Fight!
People really look at this one only way. Carley was the scapegoat of all the problems in the group. She never really helped solving any of them so until I found out it was Ben I thought it could've been Carley as well. Those problems were there long before Carley died...
Welcom to a game set in teh Deep South lol
Absolutely. Can't wait for the book The Road to Woodbury to find out more about her.
Before every episode, this message pops up:
The game series adapts to the choices you make. The story is tailored by how you play.
Before I go into Episode 3, I that it's important to highlight episode 1 and 2.
Episode 1:
Episode 1 was all about starting relationships. You determined what kind of attitude Lee would have, how you treated Clem, and got to meet the characters you'd be spending most of the game with. This episode was brilliant in that you spent just enough time doing things with each character that you just started to get attached. Then, everything comes to a head at the end of the episode. You have to choose between Doug and Carley.
Choices that mattered: (In the scope of the entire game)
-Doug vs Carley
-Took Larry's or Kenny's side entering the drug store
-Act like a jerk to Clem or treat her well
-Be honest to the group or dishonest
Episode 2:
Episode 2 further strengths or weakens the relationships you have started. At this point, you really have to choose between Kenny or Lilly. You agree or disagree about leaving the hotel and, in a more shocking moment, determine if you will murder Larry because he "might" turn into a zombie. It really forces you to decide if you're willing to do whatever it takes to minimize risks and selfishly look out for just yourself and Clem or if you're going to do your best to help others despite the consequences.
After leaving the farm, Kenny confronts you about what choice you made in the freezer. "There's going to be fallout," he said. And I believed him.
Choices that mattered:
-Tried to save Larry or helped kill him
-Be honest or dishonest
-Continue to treat Clem well or treat her poorly
-Further travel along the path of the "dark side" by acting like a violent, selfish murderer that probably belonged in prison or continue to be a good person
Episode 3: Kenny vs Lilly
The choices you made in the first two games have been leading up to this moment.
But... where's the fallout? Lilly treats you almost the same regardless of killing Larry or not. It's ok though, I'm sure something will happen later.
Bandits ruin your day and you leave the hotel in the RV. The RV stops further along the road and it's time for Lilly to confront Ben.
Lilly has snapped, and with everything that has happened... combined with Larry's death... understandably so. Unfortunately, she snaps too far and pulls out a gun.
Can I convince her to put it down? I mean, I've been in camp Lilly since the beginning! I've treated Larry the best I could despite him being a jerk to me, I tried to help Lilly save the guy, and I did agree that we should stay at the hotel. I wasn't even a skeptic about the traitor; I trusted her and agreed to help find the guy.
Does any of that matter? Did any of the choices I make affect the game or was it tailored to how I played?
No. She shoots at Ben, killing Doug, regardless. (Or, uncharacteristically, shoots Carley in the face.) If you were a jerk to Lilly and sided with Kenny every time she shoots at Ben. If you treated Lilly like she was Jesus and made the best decisions of all time she still shoots at Ben.
I'm... I'm sure your relationship with Kenny and Lilly gets resolved later right? Probably when deciding what to do with Lilly?
Nope. Lilly kicks you out of the RV and leaves when you get to the train. The game even gives you a small hope that maybe there's a choice when you can "agree" to go with her, but then she still boots you out. The heck?! Why would Lilly just leave me with "fair-weather friend" Kenny after all I've done for her?
The decisions with, seemingly, the most lasting consequences in the first two episodes now don't matter. Lilly will go crazy and kill Doug or Carley regardless of what you did, and will leave you regardless of what you did. You now have no reason to replay episode 1 or 2 to do things differently.
What if, instead of butchering any decision making you had done the first two games, the game now splits into two paths? What if, when you're exploring the train with Lilly/Clem Kenny hops into the RV with his family and drives off? From a story standpoint this even makes sense. If you've taken Lilly's side every time maybe KENNY panics and believes he can't trust you two and leaves. Sure, they would have had to keep up with writing dialogue for both Kenny and Lilly but with a two and a half month wait (despite originally being promised a monthly wait) between episodes, they could easily keep up with it. They wouldn't have even had to worry about Duck and Kat dialogue anymore.
What if, instead of going berserk, you can convince Lilly to stand down? Sure, Doug/Carley could still die. Deaths happen. But they could die later in the episode in a different way or even in another episode. Heck, maybe they make it the entire way.
But NO. The writers don't want Doug/Carley to live and wanted to get rid of Lilly. After playing through the first few episodes thinking that choices I made mattered, episode 3 was all about the choice of the writers. Every choice you made regarding your crew is ruined in 10 minutes.
The final straw for me was the finale of Episode 3. The game presents Omir and Christie both in danger, ruining beside the train. I immediately thought back to episode 1.
"I can only choose one again," I thought. I choose Christie. Omir still makes it. Okay, so what was the point of this choice? One of them makes a comment at me that I should have saved the other first? That's the "game altering" choice I'm making now? This is tailor the game to this choice?
You know what the game is about now? The writers' choices, not yours. The writers choose Kenny or Lilly for you this episode, not you. The game is now NOT tailored to how you play and the decisions to make don't matter.
Choices that mattered:
-Clem is wearing or not wearing new clothing.
The game series adapts to the choices the writers make. The story is an interactive movie.
You realize with the wording they give before every episode, it could be in reference to just the dialogue choices you make and still be accurate, right?
The dialogue affects who Lee is perceived by other people and how they interact with him. Hence the game is being tailored to those decisions and how you're playing Lee.
You obviously expected a hell of a lot more from it and I'm sure you feel mislead, but in reality it is exactly what they advertise it as.
i dont think they expected us to feel responsible for the whole group, if you just think of it as a story about one person (Lee) and his sidekick (Clementine), everything that happens only matters to lee and Clementine, so people dying didn't affect those people, it affected Lee.
but that isn't how most people saw it, i saw Lee as me and i wanted to affect the world around me to suit me, not have the world affect me
Expect that even with this interpretation, it doesn't. Despite how people perceive you and how you interact with others, the exact same scenario happens in Episode 3 in exactly the same way. People treat Lee the same regardless of the dialogue.
Honestly, with how long we have to wait between episodes and lack of communication from TT in general I don't expect too much. I just know that I sure as heck am not going to buy an episodic game anymore and definitely wouldn't be purchasing episode 4 or 5 as a standalone after episode 3. The only reason I'm seeing this through is because the package included the last two episodes.
The game feels like it ended at 3. The only thing left is finding Clem's parents.
Oh yeah, and she didn't trust you enough to tell you about the radio despite how you treated her. Huh. I guess she could have told you instead of you finding out at the end of Episode 3 if she trusted you or something, but that would have meant something you did mattered.
Really? In my play through, if I kept
I was pro Kenny the whole time. If I was pro Lilly, I heard
Same outcome, 2 different tailored experiences.
I've also read from pro lilly players that in the beginning of 3 when you're in the drug store,
Same outcome, 2 different tailored experiences.
As I said, you're expecting more than you're getting from their description of the game. It is however, just as they advertise.
*Fluffy stares at BourbonTeacup menacingly*
Take a page from ShadowFlux's book and try seeing it from their perspective for once.
*Fluffy pops a cap in my skull*
I hope Fluffy you've seen the Carley version of the scene to get that, and I'm kidding around but I do honestly think that while a lot of the choices didn't change much, a lot of choices seem more about defining Lee, not changing the world around him. Like the choice with that girl at the start, are you survivor at all costs, letting her die painfully just to reduce risk, or are you a compassionate killer, executing her but easing her suffering. Not every choice has to shape everyone else, sometimes it just shows what sort of man you are.
Seriously though, how Lilly/Carley/Doug played out is still just poor writing in my book. It's completely obvious that the writers just wanted Lilly and Carley/Doug gone. The hints and actions that characters take depending on what you say had no affect on Lilly's departure or Doug/Carley's life.
The entire game, especially from episode 2 onwards, has had this "Kenny vs Lilly" vibe that ends in episode 3. The ending is the same, no matter what way you look at it. It makes no sense that Lilly would offer to take you and then just leaves you. It makes no sense that we've gotten along great yet she still pulls a gun out. The ONLY way it makes sense is if you have sided with Kenny the entire time.
It felt like, and should have been, that we would have to choose once and for all Kenny or Lilly. That there should have been two sides. That Kenny should have been the one freaking out, just like Lilly did, and eventually left us with his family and we advanced with Lilly instead of him. Forget people who liked Lilly though, because you got chosen for you.
The writers wanted Lilly and Doug/Carley gone and for Kenny to be your only remaining bro and, screw the players who liked Lilly, they did it. Why even have this whole "Lilly vs Kenny" debate over the previous episodes if Lilly is just going to leave regardless? Why even hint that it's going to be some big confrontation when there's only one conclusion in the final confrontation that you can't change?
When you hear the company name "TellTale" what do you think of?
I think of being Told a tale through their games, they have a bit of a niche market in games. If you make the decisions and change the story, they're not really telling a tale now are they?
Look, we can view this logically (based on value).
Most people want to change the destination of this story instead of enjoying the ride with having some colorful input.
Right there you're looking at something most or all $60 can't produce, from a $24.99/season game (14.99 on sale).
Everyone seems to be asking for $60 + several DLC worth of content from a $24.99 price point. It's just not going to happen, and it doesn't fit what this company does.
dubesor posted this in another thread:
What everyone is realistically asking for: Example 1. From a $24.99 game. Not. Going. To. Happen.
Example 2. Seems logical, but as I stated in that thread, that leaves you in 2 separate spots for when season 2 picks up. Right there, that's another big problem and will push the game towards example one as seasons progress (if you end up with more than 2). Which is also, not likely.
Example 3. I think is an over-dramatization of what we do have, I see it more as branching out and reconnecting in a diamond shape (thus far) from the point where you choose Carley/Doug to when they die.
I think you're going through a pre-purchase misunderstanding and a post-purchase regret based on said misunderstanding, instead of accepting it for what it is.
sure it would add production time for new scenes and characters, and writing a story for many branches would be complicated, but it's not impossible.
they should have just called it an interactive story and we would have never expected any more.
i have basically accepted that this game is just an interactive story (i still hold out a little hope of more) but i still want a game where choices actually matter, so maybe for season 2 telltale could start figuring out how to do that.
Right, but most adventure games with larger flow charts (most likely) come with larger price tags.
Impossible? No, but you're going to have to reach deeper into your pockets to get it - especially to get it to the scope it seems most people would like it to be. I'm almost believing people honestly expect a sandbox zombie apocalypse experience for their $25.
If it doesn't come down to understanding your choices just change how Lee is reacted towards throughout the game, then it's got to be about understanding what you're getting for the price you paid.
Either way, to me, it matches what they've advertised.
don't go mad and extend my "what is so hard about adding a few branches" to "expect a sandbox zombie apocalypse experience" it is you who is rationalising misleading advertisement, and as i said i like the walking dead game, but i would like a game where choices matter aswell
and all DLC makes me sick, a Carley lives DLC would make me RAGE!!