Telltale killed Carley ---> Telltale only cares about money.
The definition of non-sequitor means "does not follow". This definition's application to your post does however flow logically. What the hell are you talking about?
Bad decision, poor writing, cheap trick, clumsily handled or disservice to a beloved character are all descriptive options I can understand. Saying it proves they only care about money is just nonsense.
Uninstall it if the scene soured your experience. But don't bring that wacky line of reasoning around here. We got our hands full already.
Eh making it cheaper and easier to write by cutting out having to continue the Doug/Carley differences. It makes sense, it's just a large leap.
Well...someone had to die. Actually killing the person YOU saved, and which later saves YOU at the Dairy farm is simply to drive home the fact that noone is save and you can not save anybody...you can only delay it.
Yes, in Metagaming sense I was certain that Doug/Carley are going to die either now, or early in Episode 4. But I thought they die...deserving. Well Doug saved Ben, so he kinda died heroic? But there are no Heroic Sacrifices. There is only death.
Clearly his Tread is filled with none fans of the walking dead or they'd have accepted this fact of the verse. Nothing is forbidden, everyone can die. And die like a chump or go with a bang to be remembered. Pitching a bitch fit about carly or doug taking it in the face is stupid because other things, worse things are down the lane. Hell, look at the comics. Rick lose's his hand, his wife and his maybe daugther then the hell that is turning into carl's life. Afterwards he leads a wife and child INTO a horde and watchs them get mauled. The world is over, zombies roam the land and the most dangerous person is the one sitting beside you on the RV. This episode should drive this home. Though i'll say this. Lily really hated carly, just by the fact it was a right up face shot, no debate. With doug she looked and him and turns to shoot dan, while doug grows a pair finally and moves to save him.
while doug grows a pair finally and moves to save him.
While he wants no part of the inner politics of the group...he did saved Carleys life before, he did save your life(most likely) with the laser pointer to Andy St. Johns eye and then he saved the life of Ben.
He might was no fighter and everything. But he in the end, he saved quite a lot people in a zombie outbreak.
Man I am so close to just giving up the game, because i liked the Carley character from the first second I met her in the first ep. It's like I cant put down the controller on this because I need to see what the ending is and it's an awesome game, but, on the other hand loosing Carley is a very very bad way to play out the game, as Carley is a very likable character and is very important to the story. All most as important as Clem.
On a side note I wish i had just saved Doug, then i wouldn't have been to upset about this...
And to me, this is the perfect post..
Applaudes TT for making a game where the players, the people, develop real feelings for these characters and are truely saddened at the loss of them.
I think it's great that all these people come here after playing the latest episode and need to vent over seriously disturbing scenes, wishing for a different outcome. That just shows the depth of the story and how well written it was to make us either love or hate a character.
How many have said in the past they hated Duck, annoying lil brat.. then at the end of this Episode are saddened at his fate.
Sure we can all think back and ponder what we may have changed or decide differently the next time we play it, but when ya sit down for the first time and go through the expirence, that's what it's all about!
I thought Carley's death was the most "Walking Dead" feeling moment of the game thus far. There are too many franchises where there's no honest tension because you know, no matter what happens, these same characters will survive to continue the adventure in the next installment (unless you're Sliding with Professor Arturo). No one is safe. You can fall in love with a character and they can be taken from you in a second, for no reason. No big, epic sacrifice. I'd rather see Carley taken out by a falling tree in a rainstorm than seeing her give some long speech about her love for Lee and then sacrificing herself to the walkers so that Lee and Clem can escape a burning building or some shit. Death happens in this world. No build up to signal it. No last moment of redemption. Just a pop in the face during a road side scuffle.
This episode was crazy!. Totally ***** me up. Really though choices, but I didn't expect any less.
I shot the poor girl at the beginning. It's stupid I know, but there is the difference for me. If I let her suffer then I wouldn't be any different than that fu**** Kenny. He brought this on us! All of it! He killed Larry without even hesitating and totally wrecked Lily. I like Lily, she's my favourite cause she's a survivor. However, she is a total mess now and I guess until she does what she does in the comic book she will be somewhere in middle between bad and really bad. Even after that she'll be a woman with lots of regrets. Still my favourite, I like that kind of characters. Plus I find her most attractive of all the females in the game so far.
Carley... I was really shocked and disappointed to see her die but despite being a good shot, she wasn't really doing anything. She should've stood by me and Lily and not try to be the balance. There can be no balance, so trying to maintain is just fear, the fear of taking responsibility and making choices. Because in episode 3 it's still Lily the one taking care of most things, Carley is pretty useless. In the end instead of sticking with us she started protecting that little brat Ben... I'm so ditching him along with Kenny.
And Kenny it's awful to say it but... he fucking deserved it, after all he did to me and the group in episode 2. So we saw he wasn't "He's gonna turn let's drop a salt-lick on this person's head, when his child was at stake. I used to despise Duck cause he was annoying brat as well and always putting us in danger. But him allowing me to be Batman while he was Robin... I FORGAVE HIM. How could I not?! He were Batman and Robin in a zombie apocalypse world. This was just too fu***** AWESOME. It was sad to see him die and seeing Katja holding him like that... I knew she was gonna lose it and die. I was 100% sure. Kenny is was a self-absorbed asshole and he still is. I would gladly off him and take the boat. I'm so happy that he got what he deserved... I guess he can understand now what it felt for Lily when he just offed her dad. Karma's a bitch.
The newcomers... not much to discuss here. Managed to save them both on the train and that Chuck seems a smart guy. Will see how this turns out but I'm not really in for that new girl.
The last thing I need to mention is that I was really, really disappointed with Clem talking to somebody the whole time, giving him information and not telling me. I mean it felt as if Miranda Tate stabbed me through my Bat armor. If she doesn't grow up fast I'm not gonna be so nice with her. She needs a lesson!
P.S Had Carley been more supportive of me and Lily, we three plus Clem could've run together! My Lee with 2 women and a kid. Wouldn't have been that bad!
But we all know they just didn't want to write two different stories for Doug and Carley since it meant more work, and they're already having schedule problem ...
Totally unjustified. Especially when Ben survives.
The worst part about Carley's death was the whole exchange in the beginning of the game. Like some dick at Telltale was like, "Hey, let's make a really nice scene in the beginning with Carley and Lee to make everyone like her even more, then we kill her."
Telltale is making the same mistake the show is by killing off all the good characters. I liked Doug but he died because apparently I couldn't just toss Carley her ammo and then grab him real quick, I liked Mark but he was eaten by crazy rednecks, I liked Carley but she gets shot by that dumb bitch Lily, and just to add insult to injury the last character I kinda had a soft spot for (other than Clem) was Kat. And she goes and offs herself. Now I'm stuck with Ben, who I will murder the first chance I get, Kenny, who's now depressed as fuck, some hobo, some new guy who broke his leg falling off a train and Christa, who is more of a bitch than Lily.
Them's the breaks folks, people are going to die in terrible, horrible ways for no good reason in the ZA, and TWD is trying to emulate that. You can't trust anyone really, not even the people in your group. I sure as hell didn't see Carley going out like that, but it was entirely possible. Lilly seems to have always hated Carley, if you pay attention in Episode 1 at the drug store. Look at it this way, Carley died quickly and painlessly. That is pretty much the best we can hope for. She won't become a walker now. She won't be disemboweled by a rotting corpse. In short, Carley/Doug has been the luckiest person so far in the game.
As for our choices, well, I think those are more for us to judge ourselves on. Like with that girl in the first chapter, how many of us shot her to put her out of her misery? More people than that left her to be eaten. Are we stone cold survivalists who only care about seeing another day, or do we try to hold on to what's left of our humanity even if it ends up doing us in? And exactly how much can we go through before we break?
It's good people are mad about dear characters to them being killed. That's what I love about this game. It gives you choices, like you would have in life, but also mimics how life doesn't give a crap about you and your feelings and fate plays out how it plays. I think Telltale has struck just the right balance of control the player has over their destiny. One of my best friends in High School got into a car accident and died, I didn't like it. Life doesn't care sometimes.
Keep it up Telltale, negative emotional responses at key events mean this game is doing it the right way, and making a memorable experience rather than a hollow one, like the bulk of on rails story games out there. You do what you can with what you have.
How is that so? We've got new characters so isnt it the same amount of work?
Because now our choices are incidental. Everybody is starting episode 4 the same way, which is :
Kenny is alone, Ben is an ass, Clem hid things, Lilly left, two new people are here, and the homeless guy.
That's it. So much for having our choices changing anything, right ? Interaction with Doug and Carley ? Possible romance ? Fuck that, they wanted to save some time on the writing, and decided to scrap choices that matter.
This episode was crazy!. Totally ***** me up. Really though choices, but I didn't expect any less.
I shot the poor girl at the beginning. It's stupid I know, but there is the difference for me. If I let her suffer then I wouldn't be any different than that fu**** Kenny. He brought this on us! All of it! He killed Larry without even hesitating and totally wrecked Lily. I like Lily, she's my favourite cause she's a survivor. However, she is a total mess now and I guess until she does what she does in the comic book she will be somewhere in middle between bad and really bad. Even after that she'll be a woman with lots of regrets. Still my favourite, I like that kind of characters. Plus I find her most attractive of all the females in the game so far.
Carley... I was really shocked and disappointed to see her die but despite being a good shot, she wasn't really doing anything. She should've stood by me and Lily and not try to be the balance. There can be no balance, so trying to maintain is just fear, the fear of taking responsibility and making choices. Because in episode 3 it's still Lily the one taking care of most things, Carley is pretty useless. In the end instead of sticking with us she started protecting that little brat Ben... I'm so ditching him along with Kenny.
And Kenny it's awful to say it but... he fucking deserved it, after all he did to me and the group in episode 2. So we saw he wasn't "He's gonna turn let's drop a salt-lick on this person's head, when his child was at stake. I used to despise Duck cause he was annoying brat as well and always putting us in danger. But him allowing me to be Batman while he was Robin... I FORGAVE HIM. How could I not?! He were Batman and Robin in a zombie apocalypse world. This was just too fu***** AWESOME. It was sad to see him die and seeing Katja holding him like that... I knew she was gonna lose it and die. I was 100% sure. Kenny is was a self-absorbed asshole and he still is. I would gladly off him and take the boat. I'm so happy that he got what he deserved... I guess he can understand now what it felt for Lily when he just offed her dad. Karma's a bitch.
The newcomers... not much to discuss here. Managed to save them both on the train and that Chuck seems a smart guy. Will see how this turns out but I'm not really in for that new girl.
The last thing I need to mention is that I was really, really disappointed with Clem talking to somebody the whole time, giving him information and not telling me. I mean it felt as if Miranda Tate stabbed me through my Bat armor. If she doesn't grow up fast I'm not gonna be so nice with her. She needs a lesson!
P.S Had Carley been more supportive of me and Lily, we three plus Clem could've run together! My Lee with 2 women and a kid. Wouldn't have been that bad!
Lily > Carley for me
I'm sorry you feel that way but no person deserves to lose their child. It's is absolutely the worst thing that could happen to someone.
Also I'm surprised you like Lily more. Carley has been pretty much the most stabilizing element of the group and was the only one Lee could really confide in. I did respect Lily at one point, but after what she did I just could not look at her the same way.
Well I liked Carley the most along with Lee and Clem and so it's a bit depressing. But that's the purpose of this game and I'll tip my hat to TTG for that.
The point of this game is to feel sadness and despair and so I can't help but question the sanity and logic of myself and other people who play this game
The only problem is everyone is assuming nothing in the first 2 episodes is going to matter in Episode 4 or 5. I'm sure TellTale can find some way to make them relevant.
The only problem is everyone is assuming nothing in the first 2 episodes is going to matter in Episode 4 or 5. I'm sure TellTale can find some way to make them relevant.
I'm sure that was said for episode 3 as well. I'm not holding my breath.
I'm sorry you feel that way but no person deserves to lose their child. It's is absolutely the worst thing that could happen to someone.
Also I'm surprised you like Lily more. Carley has been pretty much the most stabilizing element of the group and was the only one Lee could really confide in. I did respect Lily at one point, but after what she did I just could not look at her the same way.
Well I liked Carley the most along with Lee and Clem and so it's a bit depressing. But that's the purpose of this game and I'll tip my hat to TTG for that.
The point of this game is to feel sadness and despair and so I can't help but question the sanity and logic of myself and other people who play this game
Don't get me wrong, I felt really bad for Katjaa and Duck. I even offered to finish him myself to spare them the pain.
Kenny, had to learn the truth the hard way. You can't take other's lives so easily and then chicken out when it happens to you. It's not fair.
I really feel the Lily is misunderstood as a whole. It's easy to like Carley, cause she is the likeable girl who never crosses anyone. It's hard to be the one to make the decisions and take the blame for every bad thing that happens.
If I were a survivor I would take a mentally healthy Lily over cutie useless Carley any day. Maybe I just like strong characters, I don't know.
Lily's downfall is a combination of everybody's faults not her own demeanor. They made her that way. No one stepped to lift the burden she was carrying, nobody even comforted her about her father's death that was again somebody else's faulth (Kenny). Her mental downfall are motivated by their mistakes and inability to act.
Don't get me wrong, I felt really bad for Katjaa and Duck. I even offered to finish him myself to spare them the pain.
Kenny, had to learn the truth the hard way. You can't take other's lives so easily and then chicken out when it happens to you. It's not fair.
I really feel the Lily is misunderstood as a whole. It's easy to like Carley, cause she is the likeable girl who never crosses anyone. It's hard to be the one to make the decisions and take the blame for every bad thing that happens.
If I were a survivor I would take a mentally healthy Lily over cutie useless Carley any day. Maybe I just like strong characters, I don't know.
Lily's downfall is a combination of everybody's faults not her own demeanor. They made her that way. No one stepped to lift the burden she was carrying, nobody even comforted her about her father's death that was again somebody else's faulth (Kenny). Her mental downfall are motivated by their mistakes and inability to act.
It's one thing to be mentally devastated after the death of your father, it's another to use that as an excuse to go around shooting people.
The worst part about Carley's death was the whole exchange in the beginning of the game. Like some dick at Telltale was like, "Hey, let's make a really nice scene in the beginning with Carley and Lee to make everyone like her even more, then we kill her."
Telltale is making the same mistake the show is by killing off all the good characters.
I can tell you don't read the comic. I don't blame this on TT at all. When someone is about to die in the comic, They usually have sex with someone beforehand lol. Also 'no one is safe' is a strong theme in the book.
I know this isn't the comic but they are trying to stick with the same themes.
Telltale killed Carley ---> Telltale only cares about money.
The definition of non-sequitor means "does not follow". This definition's application to your post does however flow logically. What the hell are you talking about?
Bad decision, poor writing, cheap trick, clumsily handled or disservice to a beloved character are all descriptive options I can understand. Saying it proves they only care about money is just nonsense.
Uninstall it if the scene soured your experience. But don't bring that wacky line of reasoning around here. We got our hands full already.
I'm really sorry if i'm not fluent in English, simply came to express my frustration due to a lack of commitment from Telltale, since they say our choices influence the game and from episode 1 to 3 the only thing i can associate to that was carley/doug and they simply got rid of it. Where does our choices mather if do what we do, she likes us or not, when we say "kill Ben" or, "it was me", she just ignores everything and goes for carly nonetheless.
And sorry if you dont read everything to the end and try at least a bit to understand, there could be many reasons for them to kill carley/doug but what if you do a 1+1=2 thinking, they are behind schedule with the episodes the only thing they could do to cut time was kill them both so now they only have to straightforward.
And for you to now, that was only my final reasoning, Telltale is another business company only caring for numbers, i didnt say they killed carley/doug because they need money did i!?
If this forum isnt meant for us to comment our "Soured experiences", what is this forum for? "But don't bring that wacky line of reasoning around here. We got our hands full already. " If this is how you adress people in here then what are you doing here? I'm not the ONLY 1 saying the same, just for you to know, you could read more, in 6 pages of people saying almost all the same you look like you didnt even read every page, you apeard random selected 1 and comented, is that what your here for?!
If Telltale would kill of characters and the group would have survived for a long time, there would be outrage by the Comic Book/TV Series fans rather quick. This is just not the universe where characters live a long life and even characters who outlived most and are well liked can be killed any given page.
So of course it had to done. Now your in a group of people, of whom you can only really trust a small girl and broken man, who may or may not be your friend. Ben is only part of the group for...a short time and made deals behind your back. You have no idea what the deal with Chuck, Christa and Omid is. This dealing with new situations is something I truly love.
It really is not about your choices, but it is more realistic that way. You can not save everyone through certain dialoge choices or a Quick Time Event. Sometimes...stuff like that happens. And it will continue to happen.
I'm really sorry if i'm not fluent in English, simply came to express my frustration due to a lack of commitment from Telltale, since they say our choices influence the game and from episode 1 to 3 the only thing i can associate to that was carley/doug and they simply got rid of it. Where does our choices mather if do what we do, she likes us or not, when we say "kill Ben" or, "it was me", she just ignores everything and goes for carly nonetheless.
And sorry if you dont read everything to the end and try at least a bit to understand, there could be many reasons for them to kill carley/doug but what if you do a 1+1=2 thinking, they are behind schedule with the episodes the only thing they could do to cut time was kill them both so now they only have to straightforward.
And for you to now, that was only my final reasoning, Telltale is another business company only caring for numbers, i didnt say they killed carley/doug because they need money did i!?
If this forum isnt meant for us to comment our "Soured experiences", what is this forum for? "But don't bring that wacky line of reasoning around here. We got our hands full already. " If this is how you adress people in here then what are you doing here? I'm not the ONLY 1 saying the same, just for you to know, you could read more, in 6 pages of people saying almost all the same you look like you didnt even read every page, you apeard random selected 1 and comented, is that what your here for?!
Next time i know where not to come.
Welcome to the Walking Dead. Likable characters are often killed and it pisses off fans, but they understand that it makes a great story. Before throwing out insane hypotheticals about saving money because they killed a character you like, I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with the source material. They murdered one of the all time fan favorites in the series (comics) and have killed off many others.
You grasp of English is better than some of the native English speakers I've met on the internet, don't apologize for that.
Welcome to the Walking Dead. Likable characters are often killed and it pisses off fans, but they understand that it makes a great story. Before throwing out insane hypotheticals about saving money because they killed a character you like, I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with the source material. They murdered one of the all time fan favorites in the series (comics) and have killed off many others.
You grasp of English is better than some of the native English speakers I've met on the internet, don't apologize for that.
But you ignore his first paragraph which I feel brings up some good points. I don't need Carley to be saveable for the sake of saving her, but rather I'd like to have been able to have some kind of impact on events through my conversation choices (i.e. blaming Ben, taking the blame, etc). Instead it seems that while interesting, what you say makes no difference. I would be fine with Carley dying some other way later (well, "fine" probably isn't the right word, but I would understand), but again, having no impact on the storyline at this crucial moment seems like a missed opportunity. By no impact I don't mean necessarily changing whether or not someone dies (I realize sometimes having no control is a powerful element), but what I mean is I'd like characters to react more differently based on what you say. Instead Carley dies at the exact same moment in the conversation no matter what...
btw does Carley always kiss Lee when you agree on telling the others?
At first I thought she only did it because I answered "I think about you too".
But then I tried again with the most repellent answer "I'm fine" but she still kissed Lee.
But you ignore his first paragraph which I feel brings up some good points. I don't need Carley to be saveable for the sake of saving her, but rather I'd like to have been able to have some kind of impact on events through my conversation choices (i.e. blaming Ben, taking the blame, etc). Instead it seems that while interesting, what you say makes no difference. I would be fine with Carley dying some other way later (well, "fine" probably isn't the right word, but I would understand), but again, having no impact on the storyline at this crucial moment seems like a missed opportunity. By no impact I don't mean necessarily changing whether or not someone dies (I realize sometimes having no control is a powerful element), but what I mean is I'd like characters to react more differently based on what you say. Instead Carley dies at the exact same moment in the conversation no matter what...
I didn't really need to address it. You can't always expect to have an effect on other people's decisions. Honestly, you said it best yourself (the statement that's bolded).
You say you're fine with her dying any other way but it's so important that it's not then. I say it's the writers doing an awesome job of making you become emotionally invested in a fictional character and then making you feel helpless when you can't affect her fate. That's pretty powerful.
You should also familiarize yourself with the source material. There's a reason the mantra "No one is safe" is repeated so often.
Let's look closer at Carley's/Doug's death. Earlier or later It had to happen. I will write about Carley cause I helped her.
TT could delete her in few ways.
Fist they could make Lee to believe that even his normal life was over (He was going to the prison) maybe now he will be able to life normally because of Clem and Carley. And We could fell this way in the start of 3rd episode.
They could build bigger relationship between Lee and Carley, between Carley and Clem in 3rd/4th episode. Than even not kill Carley and finish it with happy end?! Wait it is The Walking dead, not telenovela.
Ok. They could kill Carley in some dramatic ways in the end of 4th episode. For perhaps she would had been surrounded by zombies, we would done everything to help her, looked into her eyes for last time, and then she would died. Real dramatic and often found, but a little in TWD's way, because everything would be taken from Lee.
Carley could be killed by zombies somewhere in the 3rd/4th episode (non dramatic, because anyone can die), but I think she was too smart.
She could be bitten and then dying slowly in ours arms. (similar to Duck)
Car accident, etc.
But TT decided to delete her in the best way. Very emotional, fast, unexpected, showing us that anyone can die (even person liked by the public and that significantly advances the story forward). I was angry. I would like to kill Lilly, to picked up weapon from her and unload all bullets in her head. I would like to talk with writer and back in time. Now I think it was that- The wham moment. One of the best moments in video games history. Hate it or love it.
I think its both for the most here. We hate it to lose Carley and are sad about it. In another way I also love it cause this scene was shocking and really made me feel angry at Lilly. I always was the good guy, who gives a second chance, but after that scene... no way Lilly would get in that RV again. Well, that the game manages to change me in this way and to have those feelings - I love it
...and hate it for Carleys sake.
First of all, I have to say that I'm quite impressed by the quality of some reflexions written here (I'm french and I can tell you that in ''our'' forums, it's a huge mess, people are just incapable of drawing such reflexions). Glad to be joining this Forum Hope you'll forgive many of my mistakes in english.
Yep, you do.
I found this episode 3 so powerful. Of course, many of you are right when then say that the real reasons for killing Doug/Carley are technical. Of course, building a video game that could go two, three, ten different ways has to be really difficult. Nevertheless, as many of you also said it, this scene is the most powerful of the whole game (so far...). I was myself devastated, and more than I like to acknowledge, by this scene. It's soooooo ''Walking Deadish'' to do so. Killing three characters in a row. Carley/Doug, Lily, and yourself. Killing the character you built, making him (making YOU) change. Thinking what could you have done different. Thinking that wishing for good isn't enough. That was f*cking brillant (pardon my french).
And actually, I haven't read many reactions to the 2nd episode, but I believe that the 3rd one forced people to face what the game is all about. 'cause in the 2nd episode, I was trying, since the beginning, to be the good guy, to help people, to protect them, etc. And I snapped when I was locked in the Meat Locker. And when I killed both of Saint Johns Brothers. I dunno if many people felt like that, but I really changed, without wanting it, what my character was about. It wasn't about being good, or thinkin' about the future of the game anymore. It was about rage, about vengeance, about sayin ''I have the opportunity to murder them, and I'll take it''. So frightenin, and so good about the TWD's spirit. And I believe that people who didn't experienced this very change in the 2nd episode HAD to face it in the 3rd, in this particular moment. So, anyway, people can be mad about it, can say that it's a bad choice of the developers, or even that they may did it to make the rest of the game easier to develop. Doesn't really matter. What matters is that we had to face such a moment, as if it was really crappy, really unfair, really bad.
And if we felt that way, the developers won, because that's what such a game is about. And I have to say that, even so I'm not playing to many video games, I do not believe that this particular feeling of ''unfairness'' can happen in many of them.
Hate it or love it. That so true. It was the epic moment of this episode, the best one, and the worst. Just amazing.
Speaking as a Carley fan, I feel the only way to help alleviate the pain of her death is if all the (game exclusive) characters die at some point. At least then you can take comfort knowing everyone will share the same fate rather than feeling cheated out by the end if select people survived.
As a lot of you have mentioned, Carley's death is truly painful to watch. I don't know what pains me more though... The fact she was coldly shot in the face, or the potential loss of so much character development as she fell.
Is it just me, but I swear I saw a few 'Carley will remember that' type notifications in the top left (it could have been Ben though, or even both), so why would it say that if there is no possible way to save her?
I'm really annoyed because of this. I bought the game thinking I'd be able to make decisions that matter, instead I get to choose who gets an apple or banana. We should have had the choices and dialogue there to save Carley, one way or another.
And to those saying life is hard in a zombie apocalypse; shut up, it's a game. We play games for fun and not to be annoyed and lied to by SEEMINGLY money greedy developers.
And I've pretty much given up on this game for now. I got up to the point where you find that notepad with instructions on how to start the train, but felt no reason to go on with the terrible characters being introduced and the ones that we still have.
There's no reason that Carley can't be brought back some way. I'm not saying the devs bring her back as she survived a gunshot to the face by some miracle, I'm saying they simply add the dialogue and choices now before continuing with episode 4 (They can't really say no to it for any reason other than 'time constraints' or 'money problems', which they likely will) and include her in episode 4 and the rest. It doesn't have to be easy, but you know..
I'm really annoyed because of this. I bought the game thinking I'd be able to make decisions that matter, instead I get to choose who gets an apple or banana. We should have had the choices and dialogue there to save Carley, one way or another.
Is it just me, but I swear I saw a few 'Carley will remember that' type notifications in the top left (it could have been Ben though, or even both), so why would it say that if there is no possible way to save her?
And to those saying life is hard in a zombie apocalypse; shut up, it's a game. We play games for fun and not to be annoyed and lied to by SEEMINGLY money greedy developers.
For the ''choice'' dimension, you may be right to say that our decisions didn't really influenced this episode. Nevertheless, you did have the choice to be nice or not with her before she died, to listen to her or not. And you did change something by saving her in the first episode.
For the notifications, you're right ! And this is what is brillant ! The developers chose to keep using it, even though then knew that fifteen seconds later, no matter what, she was going to be murdered coldly. It's just ''realistic''. Before her death, choices mattered, no matter what, and it's making her death even more unexpected (and tragic, in a way). And no, there is no way to save her, it's the whole point of the episode (without Carley's death, no throwing Lily away, no Ben's guilt, no feeling of being completely lost and abandoned).
Finally, if you play TWD ''just for fun'', well, stop playing it. Because it's gonna get worst, and it's the way it has to be. Like many people said before, ''study the source''. TWD isn't about heroic gestures or romantic stories, it's a harsh, annoying, disturbing, violent, and deeply ''unromantic'' (in every sense) story. You cannot wish it to be what the game it's not. And one more time, about the ''greedy developers'', maybe it's true that the technical issues mattered in the scenario's choice. But it wasn't the only reason anyway. And you just pointed out one of the main reasons they did it: to piss us off, to make the game a harsh experience, and not a nice little walk in zombieland. To make it tragic. To have reactions such as yours.
As said before, you can love it or hate it. But you can't truly believe it to be lame 'cause you were obviously affected by it. And once again, that's the whole point of the game.
Comments
Eh making it cheaper and easier to write by cutting out having to continue the Doug/Carley differences. It makes sense, it's just a large leap.
Yes, in Metagaming sense I was certain that Doug/Carley are going to die either now, or early in Episode 4. But I thought they die...deserving. Well Doug saved Ben, so he kinda died heroic? But there are no Heroic Sacrifices. There is only death.
Clearly his Tread is filled with none fans of the walking dead or they'd have accepted this fact of the verse. Nothing is forbidden, everyone can die. And die like a chump or go with a bang to be remembered. Pitching a bitch fit about carly or doug taking it in the face is stupid because other things, worse things are down the lane. Hell, look at the comics. Rick lose's his hand, his wife and his maybe daugther then the hell that is turning into carl's life. Afterwards he leads a wife and child INTO a horde and watchs them get mauled. The world is over, zombies roam the land and the most dangerous person is the one sitting beside you on the RV. This episode should drive this home. Though i'll say this. Lily really hated carly, just by the fact it was a right up face shot, no debate. With doug she looked and him and turns to shoot dan, while doug grows a pair finally and moves to save him.
While he wants no part of the inner politics of the group...he did saved Carleys life before, he did save your life(most likely) with the laser pointer to Andy St. Johns eye and then he saved the life of Ben.
He might was no fighter and everything. But he in the end, he saved quite a lot people in a zombie outbreak.
And to me, this is the perfect post..
Applaudes TT for making a game where the players, the people, develop real feelings for these characters and are truely saddened at the loss of them.
I think it's great that all these people come here after playing the latest episode and need to vent over seriously disturbing scenes, wishing for a different outcome. That just shows the depth of the story and how well written it was to make us either love or hate a character.
How many have said in the past they hated Duck, annoying lil brat.. then at the end of this Episode are saddened at his fate.
Sure we can all think back and ponder what we may have changed or decide differently the next time we play it, but when ya sit down for the first time and go through the expirence, that's what it's all about!
I shot the poor girl at the beginning. It's stupid I know, but there is the difference for me. If I let her suffer then I wouldn't be any different than that fu**** Kenny. He brought this on us! All of it! He killed Larry without even hesitating and totally wrecked Lily. I like Lily, she's my favourite cause she's a survivor. However, she is a total mess now and I guess until she does what she does in the comic book she will be somewhere in middle between bad and really bad. Even after that she'll be a woman with lots of regrets. Still my favourite, I like that kind of characters. Plus I find her most attractive of all the females in the game so far.
Carley... I was really shocked and disappointed to see her die but despite being a good shot, she wasn't really doing anything. She should've stood by me and Lily and not try to be the balance. There can be no balance, so trying to maintain is just fear, the fear of taking responsibility and making choices. Because in episode 3 it's still Lily the one taking care of most things, Carley is pretty useless. In the end instead of sticking with us she started protecting that little brat Ben... I'm so ditching him along with Kenny.
And Kenny it's awful to say it but... he fucking deserved it, after all he did to me and the group in episode 2. So we saw he wasn't "He's gonna turn let's drop a salt-lick on this person's head, when his child was at stake. I used to despise Duck cause he was annoying brat as well and always putting us in danger. But him allowing me to be Batman while he was Robin... I FORGAVE HIM. How could I not?! He were Batman and Robin in a zombie apocalypse world. This was just too fu***** AWESOME. It was sad to see him die and seeing Katja holding him like that... I knew she was gonna lose it and die. I was 100% sure. Kenny is was a self-absorbed asshole and he still is. I would gladly off him and take the boat. I'm so happy that he got what he deserved... I guess he can understand now what it felt for Lily when he just offed her dad. Karma's a bitch.
The newcomers... not much to discuss here. Managed to save them both on the train and that Chuck seems a smart guy. Will see how this turns out but I'm not really in for that new girl.
The last thing I need to mention is that I was really, really disappointed with Clem talking to somebody the whole time, giving him information and not telling me. I mean it felt as if Miranda Tate stabbed me through my Bat armor. If she doesn't grow up fast I'm not gonna be so nice with her. She needs a lesson!
P.S Had Carley been more supportive of me and Lily, we three plus Clem could've run together! My Lee with 2 women and a kid. Wouldn't have been that bad!
Lily > Carley for me
But we all know they just didn't want to write two different stories for Doug and Carley since it meant more work, and they're already having schedule problem
Totally unjustified. Especially when Ben survives.
Telltale is making the same mistake the show is by killing off all the good characters. I liked Doug but he died because apparently I couldn't just toss Carley her ammo and then grab him real quick, I liked Mark but he was eaten by crazy rednecks, I liked Carley but she gets shot by that dumb bitch Lily, and just to add insult to injury the last character I kinda had a soft spot for (other than Clem) was Kat. And she goes and offs herself. Now I'm stuck with Ben, who I will murder the first chance I get, Kenny, who's now depressed as fuck, some hobo, some new guy who broke his leg falling off a train and Christa, who is more of a bitch than Lily.
It doesn't help to know that they killed her off just so they would have less work to do for the writing
How is that so? We've got new characters so isnt it the same amount of work?
As for our choices, well, I think those are more for us to judge ourselves on. Like with that girl in the first chapter, how many of us shot her to put her out of her misery? More people than that left her to be eaten. Are we stone cold survivalists who only care about seeing another day, or do we try to hold on to what's left of our humanity even if it ends up doing us in? And exactly how much can we go through before we break?
Keep it up Telltale, negative emotional responses at key events mean this game is doing it the right way, and making a memorable experience rather than a hollow one, like the bulk of on rails story games out there. You do what you can with what you have.
Except that Doug and Carley can't coexist, so you'd have different scenarios to deal with for each character.
Because now our choices are incidental. Everybody is starting episode 4 the same way, which is :
Kenny is alone, Ben is an ass, Clem hid things, Lilly left, two new people are here, and the homeless guy.
That's it. So much for having our choices changing anything, right ? Interaction with Doug and Carley ? Possible romance ? Fuck that, they wanted to save some time on the writing, and decided to scrap choices that matter.
I'm sorry you feel that way but no person deserves to lose their child. It's is absolutely the worst thing that could happen to someone.
Also I'm surprised you like Lily more. Carley has been pretty much the most stabilizing element of the group and was the only one Lee could really confide in. I did respect Lily at one point, but after what she did I just could not look at her the same way.
Well I liked Carley the most along with Lee and Clem and so it's a bit depressing. But that's the purpose of this game and I'll tip my hat to TTG for that.
The point of this game is to feel sadness and despair and so I can't help but question the sanity and logic of myself and other people who play this game
I'm sure that was said for episode 3 as well. I'm not holding my breath.
Don't get me wrong, I felt really bad for Katjaa and Duck. I even offered to finish him myself to spare them the pain.
Kenny, had to learn the truth the hard way. You can't take other's lives so easily and then chicken out when it happens to you. It's not fair.
I really feel the Lily is misunderstood as a whole. It's easy to like Carley, cause she is the likeable girl who never crosses anyone. It's hard to be the one to make the decisions and take the blame for every bad thing that happens.
If I were a survivor I would take a mentally healthy Lily over cutie useless Carley any day. Maybe I just like strong characters, I don't know.
Lily's downfall is a combination of everybody's faults not her own demeanor. They made her that way. No one stepped to lift the burden she was carrying, nobody even comforted her about her father's death that was again somebody else's faulth (Kenny). Her mental downfall are motivated by their mistakes and inability to act.
It's one thing to be mentally devastated after the death of your father, it's another to use that as an excuse to go around shooting people.
Carley's scene.
I've been on a video making mood haha. Too bad the forum has no embedding.
She didn't use that as an excuse, she just flew off the handle and murdered Carley.
Horrible and unfair? Yes..but.....
Life isn't fair, and sometimes good people get killed. Life goes on. Got to protect those still alive.
seriously dude, but it makes for great reading doesnt it?
I can tell you don't read the comic. I don't blame this on TT at all. When someone is about to die in the comic, They usually have sex with someone beforehand lol. Also 'no one is safe' is a strong theme in the book.
I know this isn't the comic but they are trying to stick with the same themes.
I'm really sorry if i'm not fluent in English, simply came to express my frustration due to a lack of commitment from Telltale, since they say our choices influence the game and from episode 1 to 3 the only thing i can associate to that was carley/doug and they simply got rid of it. Where does our choices mather if do what we do, she likes us or not, when we say "kill Ben" or, "it was me", she just ignores everything and goes for carly nonetheless.
And sorry if you dont read everything to the end and try at least a bit to understand, there could be many reasons for them to kill carley/doug but what if you do a 1+1=2 thinking, they are behind schedule with the episodes the only thing they could do to cut time was kill them both so now they only have to straightforward.
And for you to now, that was only my final reasoning, Telltale is another business company only caring for numbers, i didnt say they killed carley/doug because they need money did i!?
If this forum isnt meant for us to comment our "Soured experiences", what is this forum for? "But don't bring that wacky line of reasoning around here. We got our hands full already. " If this is how you adress people in here then what are you doing here? I'm not the ONLY 1 saying the same, just for you to know, you could read more, in 6 pages of people saying almost all the same you look like you didnt even read every page, you apeard random selected 1 and comented, is that what your here for?!
Next time i know where not to come.
So of course it had to done. Now your in a group of people, of whom you can only really trust a small girl and broken man, who may or may not be your friend. Ben is only part of the group for...a short time and made deals behind your back. You have no idea what the deal with Chuck, Christa and Omid is. This dealing with new situations is something I truly love.
It really is not about your choices, but it is more realistic that way. You can not save everyone through certain dialoge choices or a Quick Time Event. Sometimes...stuff like that happens. And it will continue to happen.
Welcome to the Walking Dead. Likable characters are often killed and it pisses off fans, but they understand that it makes a great story. Before throwing out insane hypotheticals about saving money because they killed a character you like, I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with the source material. They murdered one of the all time fan favorites in the series (comics) and have killed off many others.
You grasp of English is better than some of the native English speakers I've met on the internet, don't apologize for that.
But you ignore his first paragraph which I feel brings up some good points. I don't need Carley to be saveable for the sake of saving her, but rather I'd like to have been able to have some kind of impact on events through my conversation choices (i.e. blaming Ben, taking the blame, etc). Instead it seems that while interesting, what you say makes no difference. I would be fine with Carley dying some other way later (well, "fine" probably isn't the right word, but I would understand), but again, having no impact on the storyline at this crucial moment seems like a missed opportunity. By no impact I don't mean necessarily changing whether or not someone dies (I realize sometimes having no control is a powerful element), but what I mean is I'd like characters to react more differently based on what you say. Instead Carley dies at the exact same moment in the conversation no matter what...
At first I thought she only did it because I answered "I think about you too".
But then I tried again with the most repellent answer "I'm fine" but she still kissed Lee.
I didn't really need to address it. You can't always expect to have an effect on other people's decisions. Honestly, you said it best yourself (the statement that's bolded).
You say you're fine with her dying any other way but it's so important that it's not then. I say it's the writers doing an awesome job of making you become emotionally invested in a fictional character and then making you feel helpless when you can't affect her fate. That's pretty powerful.
You should also familiarize yourself with the source material. There's a reason the mantra "No one is safe" is repeated so often.
TT could delete her in few ways.
Fist they could make Lee to believe that even his normal life was over (He was going to the prison) maybe now he will be able to life normally because of Clem and Carley. And We could fell this way in the start of 3rd episode.
They could build bigger relationship between Lee and Carley, between Carley and Clem in 3rd/4th episode. Than even not kill Carley and finish it with happy end?! Wait it is The Walking dead, not telenovela.
Ok. They could kill Carley in some dramatic ways in the end of 4th episode. For perhaps she would had been surrounded by zombies, we would done everything to help her, looked into her eyes for last time, and then she would died. Real dramatic and often found, but a little in TWD's way, because everything would be taken from Lee.
Carley could be killed by zombies somewhere in the 3rd/4th episode (non dramatic, because anyone can die), but I think she was too smart.
She could be bitten and then dying slowly in ours arms. (similar to Duck)
Car accident, etc.
But TT decided to delete her in the best way. Very emotional, fast, unexpected, showing us that anyone can die (even person liked by the public and that significantly advances the story forward). I was angry. I would like to kill Lilly, to picked up weapon from her and unload all bullets in her head. I would like to talk with writer and back in time. Now I think it was that- The wham moment. One of the best moments in video games history. Hate it or love it.
...and hate it for Carleys sake.
Yep, you do.
I found this episode 3 so powerful. Of course, many of you are right when then say that the real reasons for killing Doug/Carley are technical. Of course, building a video game that could go two, three, ten different ways has to be really difficult. Nevertheless, as many of you also said it, this scene is the most powerful of the whole game (so far...). I was myself devastated, and more than I like to acknowledge, by this scene. It's soooooo ''Walking Deadish'' to do so. Killing three characters in a row. Carley/Doug, Lily, and yourself. Killing the character you built, making him (making YOU) change. Thinking what could you have done different. Thinking that wishing for good isn't enough. That was f*cking brillant (pardon my french).
And actually, I haven't read many reactions to the 2nd episode, but I believe that the 3rd one forced people to face what the game is all about. 'cause in the 2nd episode, I was trying, since the beginning, to be the good guy, to help people, to protect them, etc. And I snapped when I was locked in the Meat Locker. And when I killed both of Saint Johns Brothers. I dunno if many people felt like that, but I really changed, without wanting it, what my character was about. It wasn't about being good, or thinkin' about the future of the game anymore. It was about rage, about vengeance, about sayin ''I have the opportunity to murder them, and I'll take it''. So frightenin, and so good about the TWD's spirit. And I believe that people who didn't experienced this very change in the 2nd episode HAD to face it in the 3rd, in this particular moment. So, anyway, people can be mad about it, can say that it's a bad choice of the developers, or even that they may did it to make the rest of the game easier to develop. Doesn't really matter. What matters is that we had to face such a moment, as if it was really crappy, really unfair, really bad.
And if we felt that way, the developers won, because that's what such a game is about. And I have to say that, even so I'm not playing to many video games, I do not believe that this particular feeling of ''unfairness'' can happen in many of them.
Hate it or love it. That so true. It was the epic moment of this episode, the best one, and the worst. Just amazing.
Cheers from France
As a lot of you have mentioned, Carley's death is truly painful to watch. I don't know what pains me more though... The fact she was coldly shot in the face, or the potential loss of so much character development as she fell.
I'm really annoyed because of this. I bought the game thinking I'd be able to make decisions that matter, instead I get to choose who gets an apple or banana. We should have had the choices and dialogue there to save Carley, one way or another.
And to those saying life is hard in a zombie apocalypse; shut up, it's a game. We play games for fun and not to be annoyed and lied to by SEEMINGLY money greedy developers.
And I've pretty much given up on this game for now. I got up to the point where you find that notepad with instructions on how to start the train, but felt no reason to go on with the terrible characters being introduced and the ones that we still have.
There's no reason that Carley can't be brought back some way. I'm not saying the devs bring her back as she survived a gunshot to the face by some miracle, I'm saying they simply add the dialogue and choices now before continuing with episode 4 (They can't really say no to it for any reason other than 'time constraints' or 'money problems', which they likely will) and include her in episode 4 and the rest. It doesn't have to be easy, but you know..
Same goes for Doug.
For the ''choice'' dimension, you may be right to say that our decisions didn't really influenced this episode. Nevertheless, you did have the choice to be nice or not with her before she died, to listen to her or not. And you did change something by saving her in the first episode.
For the notifications, you're right ! And this is what is brillant ! The developers chose to keep using it, even though then knew that fifteen seconds later, no matter what, she was going to be murdered coldly. It's just ''realistic''. Before her death, choices mattered, no matter what, and it's making her death even more unexpected (and tragic, in a way). And no, there is no way to save her, it's the whole point of the episode (without Carley's death, no throwing Lily away, no Ben's guilt, no feeling of being completely lost and abandoned).
Finally, if you play TWD ''just for fun'', well, stop playing it. Because it's gonna get worst, and it's the way it has to be. Like many people said before, ''study the source''. TWD isn't about heroic gestures or romantic stories, it's a harsh, annoying, disturbing, violent, and deeply ''unromantic'' (in every sense) story. You cannot wish it to be what the game it's not. And one more time, about the ''greedy developers'', maybe it's true that the technical issues mattered in the scenario's choice. But it wasn't the only reason anyway. And you just pointed out one of the main reasons they did it: to piss us off, to make the game a harsh experience, and not a nice little walk in zombieland. To make it tragic. To have reactions such as yours.
As said before, you can love it or hate it. But you can't truly believe it to be lame 'cause you were obviously affected by it. And once again, that's the whole point of the game.