Besides I hear Americans refer to their former slaves by much worse on a daily basis.
You dont know how offensive this little tiny sentence was... but Juicius handled that, bless him.
Do you even realise how sensitive of a subject you just touched? heard someone say worse? hearing worse does not justify you using offensive words... the word wasn't originally racist but its associated with racists now and that is a Fact.
Well I honestly hope they continue on with Lee. It seems to me that it would be a waste of one of the key things an episodic-seasonal game like this could be. You don't really see it from other games where you have a consistent-ongoing tale with the same protagonist. The game industry, much like films, feel the need to keep games locked into this trilogy format.
I like the idea of the continuing single player experience with a character I know and am already not only invested in but had some hand in shaping. But can understand how women may not feel as capable of identifying with Lee due to his gender. I'd likely feel the same if the roles were reversed.
Ideally I'd prefer to see them simply launch another title in TWD verse with another of their teams. Or to have some customizable experience where you have more of a say in who you play as would be better. But I don't honestly see how they could pull that off logistically. Having as many branching dialogs and choice tracking as they already have. It would most likely be completely unfeasible without a substantial crew working at it from many angles.
The closest workable model I could think of is if they were two different characters in the same group. Something along the line of Gladius, it's an old game but it had two leads to choose from, though the choices you made in it revolved solely around combat. Again, it would mean much more work on telltales part.
No matter what, however, there is no perfect, unanimously acceptable solution. What you believe is doing a female protagonist 'justice' would be demeaning to another. I fail to see how wearing a tank top and shorts for example would be demeaning for a woman who was trying to survive in the typically sweltering south. If she was decked out in sherpa gear it would be both unrealistic and distracting. Both of which would only serve to draw you out of the immersion, which, to me at least, is the entire purpose of the game.
The same would hold true if she flounced about in a string bikini. The fact that the topic of respectability of a female lead was even broached here after what I at very least would deem completely reasonably clothed female characters so far in the series just seems to further emphasize my point.
Not all woman are confident, hear-me-roar, bad asses and representing all of them as such is no less disingenuous then painting them all as weak-kneed, i need-a-man, whiners. When we do we end up with nothing but lame two-dimensional bore-fests like Superman and Alice (from the RE films...sorry to even brought them up).
People are a lot more than just our gender, race, social, or religious makeup and we're certainly a lot more than what we wear.
I am truly amazed at the issues that come up on this board that really have nothing to do with the game itself, but are the product of individual perspectives and prejudices.
It seems like you're speaking out against him for condemning racist bullshit b/c it's off topic from the game.
Or you're agreeing with him and wording it poorly.
Either way, I don't see why he would apologize to you.
It seems like you're speaking out against him for condemning racist bullshit b/c it's off topic from the game.
Or you're agreeing with him and wording it poorly.
Either way, I don't see why he would apologize you.
I don't think she's criticizing his post, just really shocked at how random this forum can be. We've covered the gamut of insensitivity and even hit the major points of all possible non sequitors. We're quite genius at our level of shit.
Super please. Telltale has the ability to write likeable and believable female characters. A female leader character would provide a unique and interesting experience for the player.
For example, Lee is African American. This race is not usually a feature for the main character in emotional, story driven games. As a result, some people of other races (like me) felt surprised (and possibly cut) when Kenny (a friend!) accused Lee (the player) of being good at picking locks. What if a male player, playing a female character, experienced a hurtful female related remark? I imagine a similar impact would be had.
However, I'm not against Lee and Clementine continuing their story. Do what inspires you, Telltale!
Would people that want more of Lee think it'd be cool If Season 1 was with Lee.
Season 2 was with a female protagonist, but in the second season, it goes back to the start of the ZA and shows it from her perspective. Then at the end of Season 2, the very last scene, she meets up with Lee and Clementine.
And then Season 3 you can choose which one you want to play as? But to avoid the varying degrees of personality, the one you don't choose dies at the beginning of the game? This would allow for greater replay value as well.
Thoughts?
And can we please stay on topic. Just ignore the troll.
In the first episode, they should have the new protagonist have sex from her point of view. With some fat, harry old guy, like Larry or Kenny.
Some might call it a disgusting and traumatizing experience for a man. Or woman, for that matter. But it's new, fresh, exciting! Never been done! It will be a smash hit!
I did read it. Still, I didn't ask anything. I made a statement.
As my original post was an observation. It wasn't poorly worded, just poorly understood and I can hardly be held accountable for your lack of intelligence.
As my original post was an observation. It wasn't poorly worded, just poorly understood and I can hardly be held accountable for your lack of intelligence.
Would people that want more of Lee think it'd be cool If Season 1 was with Lee.
Season 2 was with a female protagonist, but in the second season, it goes back to the start of the ZA and shows it from her perspective. Then at the end of Season 2, the very last scene, she meets up with Lee and Clementine.
And then Season 3 you can choose which one you want to play as? But to avoid the varying degrees of personality, the one you don't choose dies at the beginning of the game? This would allow for greater replay value as well.
Thoughts?
Again, it seems like a waste of the episodic/seasonal format, to me. Also, if they're capable of feasibly making a dual story line what would be the point in waiting till season three to implement it? Why not simply do it in season 2? Waiting would only limit the re-playability and serve to reduce the enjoyment for some.
Again, it seems like a waste of the episodic/seasonal format, to me. Also, if they're capable of feasibly making a dual story line what would be the point in waiting till season three to implement it? Why not simply do it in season 2? Waiting would only limit the re-playability and serve to reduce the enjoyment for some.
If we're going to have to choose between two characters at the beginning of season 2, and character 1 is Lee, i doubt even 5% of people would choose character 2. We've just got so much time invested in Lee as a character, and where we have a connection with him already we would have a void with any other character. Of course, if it were two characters with neither of them being Lee, I guess it could work. If TT had the resources at their disposal for that option, of course.
We've just got so much time invested in Lee as a character, and where we have a connection with him already we would have a void with any other character. .
While I share that very sentiment entirely I think the point, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the ladies playing the game would like the option to actually play as a female character. An understandable sentiment.
If the situation were reversed and Lee had been portrayed as a woman and the option opened up to switch to a male character I probably would.
I generally prefer playing male characters because they're better written than the eye candy female protagonists rendered to appeal to male gamers.
What do you think about the new Tomb Raider coming out next year?
Also, FYI. Chershire Cat I was calling the troll. He used the phrase "former slaves" to incite a flame war. But yea, you two are just going back n forth.
New question, if I download this game off steam, can I get the season pass?
Super please. Telltale has the ability to write likeable and believable female characters. A female leader character would provide a unique and interesting experience for the player.
For example, Lee is African American. This race is not usually a feature for the main character in emotional, story driven games. As a result, some people of other races (like me) felt surprised (and possibly cut) when Kenny (a friend!) accused Lee (the player) of being good at picking locks. What if a male player, playing a female character, experienced a hurtful female related remark? I imagine a similar impact would be had.
That's a good point and I think it's something that video games are uniquely equipped to do. As a white guy, I obviously don't experience a lot of prejudice firsthand, and even seeing it in TV or movies, there's always a distance there because I'm just seeing it happen to another character. But in Walking Dead, because I'd been role-playing as Lee for a while, when Kenny said that, I actually did feel sort of taken aback as if it had been directed at me personally. It really emphasized what a ridiculous comment it was and made me think about how frustrating it must be to have to put up with stuff like that all the time in real life. I don't think I would have had that strong of a reaction if I'd just seen that conversation take place in some other non-interactive medium.
Well I think if you had any sort of empathy you could relate racial prejudice to anytime in your life you've been picked on for something you can't control. I'm caucasian and I can feel for them. Of course any type of ethnic person could say "oh you still can't relate" but it's not like there aren't races out there that aren't prejudice against white people.
Dammit, why am I now going off-topic too. Curse you conformity!
What do you think about the new Tomb Raider coming out next year?
The art and premise look interesting, however I've never been a huge Tomb Raider fan. Aside from the eye candy protagonist, as weird as this may sound, the unrealistic wolves always really bothered me.
Of course any type of ethnic person could say "oh you still can't relate" but it's not like there aren't races out there that aren't prejudice against white people.
There's not a lot of difference between racism and sexism in an effort to degrade an individual. Unfortunately, you'll no doubt experience your share of the latter.
How about a young, busty good ole girl that goes around wasting walkers with a tactical shotgun wearing a camo bikini top, daisy dukes and combat boots?
OK, I'm being ridiculous. Could happen in the game developer's imaginings, though.
The art and premise look interesting, however I've never been a huge Tomb Raider fan. Aside from the eye candy protagonist, as weird as this may sound, the unrealistic wolves always really bothered me.
There's not a lot of difference between racism and sexism in an effort to degrade an individual. Unfortunately, you'll no doubt experience your share of the latter.
I think it could be a good idea, I'm not trying to start a flame war but most mainstream shows now days are dominated by Male protagonists, it would be nice to see something that broke away from this patriarchy.
Though I say that, I just hope this idea doesn't stem from the notion that we will have a pair of boobs that would not be eatable, let's keep this story based, people!
Females account for 43% of main protagonists. (Though I'm not sure if this statistic is based on female and male protagonists, or if this statistic originates from the 41% female character statistic.)
So the female to male ratio can be represented as 4:6.
Or at least, I think this is what the study says. I have a feeling I am interpreting some areas wrong. :P
If they do chose to go with different main characters each season, it would be fun to have a very different person each season. Season 1, Lee. Season 2, woman. Season 3, kid. Hell, when/if it becomes a no-plot, cash cow, season 18 can even be from a dog's point of view, and you and your canine crew can go around trying to save humans and survive. lol But in all honesty, having a few different main characters would be nice. I want to see the story with Lee and Clem play out, first, though.
Females account for 43% of main protagonists. (Though I'm not sure if this statistic is based on female and male protagonists, or if this statistic originates from the 41% female character statistic.)
So the female to male ratio can be represented as 4:6.
Or at least, I think this is what the study says. I have a feeling I am interpreting some areas wrong. :P
Do you think 57% is male domination? Because that's what s/he is claiming.
If they do end this season with Lee and Clem dieing or geting away. I say go with military type characters for season 2 maybe even show a evil military couple who have taken over a small town and you as the hero have to decide to side with them or go against them. Plus you can show how the military in Atlanta had fallen apart!!!!!
I don't get it, why would we start another new story? It's kinda pointless if you ask me. There's a reason Rick and Carl is still alive right now in the comics. Or that X main character from Y series is still alive after Z seasons and still has the focus on them.
You don't really have to change main characters to change the story of the game.
I also love your point change of story keep the characters.
To all non-Americans on these boards, please understand that this is a very sensitive and complex subject for us, and it does nobody any good to make light of such a shameful chapter in our history.
I've read most of the posts in this thread concerning the supposed intrinsic shame and negative feelings regarding the term "negro", and I feel I have to step in a share my view on it.
First off, let me begin by telling you that I am a "African-American" male. Second, my great-great-grandfather on both sides of my family were slaves. Third, I have the pride in saying that my great-grandfather on my father's side was one of the few black men in the area to own a substantial amount of land and was a successful farmer in his own right. I say all this not because I want to establish my own personal background, but because if there was someone who would be offended by the term "negro", it would be me.
I am not, however, offended in the least by Cheshire's use of the term "negro".
I think it's about time we roll it back on political correctness on some terms. What matters most is the intention of the terms. And from what I've read, Cheshire's intentions were to communicate a specific racial background, not to inflict hate. I, for one, am not interested in getting on the bandwagon in claiming that a person is insensitive simply for using a word from the past that really has no intrinsic negative associate outside of ones recently invented.
If you look over the past 100 years or so, you'll see that the term "negro" was used exclusively in a positive or neutral way until about 20 years ago. For some reason, there has been a recent shunning away from it in favor for such terms as "African American", which was done less by the "African Americans" in question, and more by seemingly guilt-ridden, racially sensitive, liberal white people who are afraid of being labelled as racist if they don't tip toe around every black person they come across.
Personally, I'm tired of it.
Let people say what they want to say. And as long as their intention is not to cause harm to people, don't worry about their phrasing. I'm disappointed. I'll leave it at that.
Comments
It would have been better to just not mention where you heard her from--My mind just fried from being reminded of that game...
You dont know how offensive this little tiny sentence was... but Juicius handled that, bless him.
Do you even realise how sensitive of a subject you just touched? heard someone say worse? hearing worse does not justify you using offensive words... the word wasn't originally racist but its associated with racists now and that is a Fact.
I like the idea of the continuing single player experience with a character I know and am already not only invested in but had some hand in shaping. But can understand how women may not feel as capable of identifying with Lee due to his gender. I'd likely feel the same if the roles were reversed.
Ideally I'd prefer to see them simply launch another title in TWD verse with another of their teams. Or to have some customizable experience where you have more of a say in who you play as would be better. But I don't honestly see how they could pull that off logistically. Having as many branching dialogs and choice tracking as they already have. It would most likely be completely unfeasible without a substantial crew working at it from many angles.
The closest workable model I could think of is if they were two different characters in the same group. Something along the line of Gladius, it's an old game but it had two leads to choose from, though the choices you made in it revolved solely around combat. Again, it would mean much more work on telltales part.
No matter what, however, there is no perfect, unanimously acceptable solution. What you believe is doing a female protagonist 'justice' would be demeaning to another. I fail to see how wearing a tank top and shorts for example would be demeaning for a woman who was trying to survive in the typically sweltering south. If she was decked out in sherpa gear it would be both unrealistic and distracting. Both of which would only serve to draw you out of the immersion, which, to me at least, is the entire purpose of the game.
The same would hold true if she flounced about in a string bikini. The fact that the topic of respectability of a female lead was even broached here after what I at very least would deem completely reasonably clothed female characters so far in the series just seems to further emphasize my point.
Not all woman are confident, hear-me-roar, bad asses and representing all of them as such is no less disingenuous then painting them all as weak-kneed, i need-a-man, whiners. When we do we end up with nothing but lame two-dimensional bore-fests like Superman and Alice (from the RE films...sorry to even brought them up).
People are a lot more than just our gender, race, social, or religious makeup and we're certainly a lot more than what we wear.
It seems like you're speaking out against him for condemning racist bullshit b/c it's off topic from the game.
Or you're agreeing with him and wording it poorly.
Either way, I don't see why he would apologize to you.
I don't think she's criticizing his post, just really shocked at how random this forum can be. We've covered the gamut of insensitivity and even hit the major points of all possible non sequitors. We're quite genius at our level of shit.
If you had continued to read my next post, you wouldn't have to ask.
For example, Lee is African American. This race is not usually a feature for the main character in emotional, story driven games. As a result, some people of other races (like me) felt surprised (and possibly cut) when Kenny (a friend!) accused Lee (the player) of being good at picking locks. What if a male player, playing a female character, experienced a hurtful female related remark? I imagine a similar impact would be had.
However, I'm not against Lee and Clementine continuing their story. Do what inspires you, Telltale!
Season 2 was with a female protagonist, but in the second season, it goes back to the start of the ZA and shows it from her perspective. Then at the end of Season 2, the very last scene, she meets up with Lee and Clementine.
And then Season 3 you can choose which one you want to play as? But to avoid the varying degrees of personality, the one you don't choose dies at the beginning of the game? This would allow for greater replay value as well.
Thoughts?
And can we please stay on topic. Just ignore the troll.
I'm curious... which one is the troll?
I personally like Telltale's episodic format and their writers always surprise me, so however they want to tell the story is fine by me.
I did read it. Still, I didn't ask anything. I made a statement.
In the first episode, they should have the new protagonist have sex from her point of view. With some fat, harry old guy, like Larry or Kenny.
Some might call it a disgusting and traumatizing experience for a man. Or woman, for that matter. But it's new, fresh, exciting! Never been done! It will be a smash hit!
As my original post was an observation. It wasn't poorly worded, just poorly understood and I can hardly be held accountable for your lack of intelligence.
Oh? You think I lack intelligence? Cyreen...
Again, it seems like a waste of the episodic/seasonal format, to me. Also, if they're capable of feasibly making a dual story line what would be the point in waiting till season three to implement it? Why not simply do it in season 2? Waiting would only limit the re-playability and serve to reduce the enjoyment for some.
Why, Cyreen, you're making me blush
Something you might actually understand:
Not to mention waiting several years to produce a more "complex" game may be jeopardized by waning popularity of the series.
If we're going to have to choose between two characters at the beginning of season 2, and character 1 is Lee, i doubt even 5% of people would choose character 2. We've just got so much time invested in Lee as a character, and where we have a connection with him already we would have a void with any other character. Of course, if it were two characters with neither of them being Lee, I guess it could work. If TT had the resources at their disposal for that option, of course.
Oh, you made a joke from the 90's!
While I share that very sentiment entirely I think the point, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the ladies playing the game would like the option to actually play as a female character. An understandable sentiment.
If the situation were reversed and Lee had been portrayed as a woman and the option opened up to switch to a male character I probably would.
I generally prefer playing male characters because they're better written than the eye candy female protagonists rendered to appeal to male gamers.
What do you think about the new Tomb Raider coming out next year?
Also, FYI. Chershire Cat I was calling the troll. He used the phrase "former slaves" to incite a flame war. But yea, you two are just going back n forth.
New question, if I download this game off steam, can I get the season pass?
That's a good point and I think it's something that video games are uniquely equipped to do. As a white guy, I obviously don't experience a lot of prejudice firsthand, and even seeing it in TV or movies, there's always a distance there because I'm just seeing it happen to another character. But in Walking Dead, because I'd been role-playing as Lee for a while, when Kenny said that, I actually did feel sort of taken aback as if it had been directed at me personally. It really emphasized what a ridiculous comment it was and made me think about how frustrating it must be to have to put up with stuff like that all the time in real life. I don't think I would have had that strong of a reaction if I'd just seen that conversation take place in some other non-interactive medium.
Dammit, why am I now going off-topic too. Curse you conformity!
The art and premise look interesting, however I've never been a huge Tomb Raider fan. Aside from the eye candy protagonist, as weird as this may sound, the unrealistic wolves always really bothered me.
There's not a lot of difference between racism and sexism in an effort to degrade an individual. Unfortunately, you'll no doubt experience your share of the latter.
OK, I'm being ridiculous. Could happen in the game developer's imaginings, though.
Why? Are all men sexist pigs?
Absolutely not.
Just enough of them and they come from all walks of life.
I thought you were female also
Though I say that, I just hope this idea doesn't stem from the notion that we will have a pair of boobs that would not be eatable, let's keep this story based, people!
You're wrong.
So you are female?
My credentials.
I found a study which supports her claim.
http://womenintvfilm.sdsu.edu/files/2010-2011_Boxed_In_Exec_Summ.pdf
This study concludes;
Females account for 41% of television characters.
Females account for 43% of main protagonists. (Though I'm not sure if this statistic is based on female and male protagonists, or if this statistic originates from the 41% female character statistic.)
So the female to male ratio can be represented as 4:6.
Or at least, I think this is what the study says. I have a feeling I am interpreting some areas wrong. :P
Do you think 57% is male domination? Because that's what s/he is claiming.
I also love your point change of story keep the characters.
I've read most of the posts in this thread concerning the supposed intrinsic shame and negative feelings regarding the term "negro", and I feel I have to step in a share my view on it.
First off, let me begin by telling you that I am a "African-American" male. Second, my great-great-grandfather on both sides of my family were slaves. Third, I have the pride in saying that my great-grandfather on my father's side was one of the few black men in the area to own a substantial amount of land and was a successful farmer in his own right. I say all this not because I want to establish my own personal background, but because if there was someone who would be offended by the term "negro", it would be me.
I am not, however, offended in the least by Cheshire's use of the term "negro".
I think it's about time we roll it back on political correctness on some terms. What matters most is the intention of the terms. And from what I've read, Cheshire's intentions were to communicate a specific racial background, not to inflict hate. I, for one, am not interested in getting on the bandwagon in claiming that a person is insensitive simply for using a word from the past that really has no intrinsic negative associate outside of ones recently invented.
If you look over the past 100 years or so, you'll see that the term "negro" was used exclusively in a positive or neutral way until about 20 years ago. For some reason, there has been a recent shunning away from it in favor for such terms as "African American", which was done less by the "African Americans" in question, and more by seemingly guilt-ridden, racially sensitive, liberal white people who are afraid of being labelled as racist if they don't tip toe around every black person they come across.
Personally, I'm tired of it.
Let people say what they want to say. And as long as their intention is not to cause harm to people, don't worry about their phrasing. I'm disappointed. I'll leave it at that.