Compassion is one of the defining traits of humanity. Numerous fossils have been found of our ancient human ancestors caring for the sick and infirm during times of hardship. It runs in our blood. It would be doable to take care of someone like Sarah during a ZA, and survive.
Also, just because someone is a "liability" now, doesn't mean they will be liabilities forever. Given enough time, Clem could've taught Sarah how to shoot and survive, just like Lee taught her.
And this is also part of the reason why Crawford's reign was doomed from the start. They killed off the sick, and the young. CHILDREN. Kill them off, and who would be left to carry on when the adults pass away? Crawford was thinking in the short-term, killing off current liabilities, not considering what potential those "liabilities" had, and what they could've become.
Anyway, people like you are a dying breed. As society advances, more and more people are becoming more and more compassionate with each other. In ancient times, around 20% of people died at the hands of someone else. Now, less than 1% of people do. People used to flog and beat prisoners, and grievously torture them using elaborate or plain brutal devices. People used to own slaves. There were no women's rights, no Geneva convention, no United Nations, no universal healthcare. Nowadays many people are more than willing to help each other, so many support services have been created. So many things have happened, it is impossible to talk about them all here. Nowadays we don't just leave the sick, young and infirm to die. Compassion will eventually win out, along with the advancement of society.
No I think I'm done being chill about this topic, so let's really get into this. I want to discuss this sickening disconnect between people with a dismissal at best and sadistic at worst attitude towards Sarah, and yet who would probably consider leaving A.J. inconceivable. Why is it when you see this:
You're annoyed. But when you saw this:
Your first instinct was probably to run out and grab A.J. Why? Isn't he probably going to die later anyways? Why isn't anyone annoyed at the massive burden A.J. represents? I'll tell you why. It's because A.J. is just a damn concept, like almost every "character" in season two. No humanity or even actually fucking logic was applied in creating A.J. and that's how he's treated in the story. Just a cute object for Clem to play with in a few scenes and plot device to motivate Kenny. But he's not treated as a tiny living breathing person with needs.
There's zero concern when Kenny takes a newborn out into the fucking cold just cause he wants to. There's actually more concern for Kenny himself coming back for a drink. There's no actual talk about how the hell their going to raise a child, outside of Kenny saying he'll raise it "tough". Will "tough" include teaching the kid to speak, read, write, count and dozens and hundreds of other basic skills and facts that you would need to simply function, let along in a survival scenario? The problem of feeding A.J. is brushed aside as formula is suddenly just wielded into existence out of fucking nowhere just to give Kenny an excuse to push everyone to keep moving.
You have any idea how long babies need breast milk or formula? It's twelve months. And it's usually a bare minimum of four months before they can even digest solid food as well. Then you'll need to worry about food allergies especially considering there isn't any hospitals really left in the world. Plus all the many many diseases a newborn would be vulnerable to due to their underdeveloped immune systems. Even the common cold can be fatal to newborns because their bodies aren't at a point where they can fight it. Do you know how high infant mortality rates were before modern medicine? Which wouldn't readily be available anymore. Then even if A.J does survive for a while he's going to get too big too carry everywhere. Just after a year an average baby boy weighs about twenty pounds. That's a lot to tote around in addition to supplies and equipment.
And don't say you don't want to talk about any of this unless you're also willing to say you're in favor of simply abandoning A.J. Don't tell me he's not a liability after suggesting Sarah was one. Don't pretend like you'd have the patience for all this when you have so little for someone who was still grieving the very recent loss of a loved one. Don't think Kenny, Jane or Clem could handle this, the man who admitted to spending too much time away from his first family, the woman who's in favor of abandoning people who slow her down and an eleven year old who probably doesn't even know how babies are made. Don't try and reason that it's worth finding A.J. somewhere safe, but not Sarah as well. And don't even suggest there's no way the writing staff could have helped the audience feel the massive weight of caring for a baby, because they could have quite easily with one minor a change.
Have A.J. start crying when the group reaches the frozen lake. That's it. And I'm mean really crying, like an actual baby. Not that minor fussiness crap Clem can make a face to appease, I mean the kid really gets upset. Any parent will tell there's at least one night where they just couldn't get their kid to stop crying, if not several. So that could happen here and the group can't get him to calm down and the walkers start coming, forcing them to cross the frozen lake right then, which leads to Luke's death. And just with that, the audience would have a faint idea of just how very very hard it's going to be to raise a baby in such a shitty fucked up world.
But they didn't do that. And they didn't do that, or anything that would make the audience think of A.J. as anything other than object needing protecting because they didn't want to risk turning away anyone in the stereotypical gaming demographic. The young guys who just want to see the next "badass moment" and not deal with the issues of child rearing, a young girl grieving or really anything that would elevate this story above just running from point A to B to fight zombies and occasionally humans. They don't want to deal with that, not unless the character dealing with it is also a "badass" zombie killer they want to keep around.
There reason some people are cool with A.J. and so irritated by Sarah is the later actually reminds you more of a person. With motivation, flaws, and emotions. Dealing with people is often hard and frustrating, so that can be seen as the case with Sarah. And since so little of the S2 cast actually acts all that human, she stands out like a sore thumb. Wonder how fast those good vibes for A.J. would disappear if Season 3 opened with spending thirty fucking minutes trying to get him to stop crying before going out for your hundredth run to get more baby formula.
So yeah, I'm really fucking sick of hearing shit about Sarah from people who probably haven't put a single second of thought into what raising a baby, let along raising a baby during the end of the world, would entail. And that includes the damn writing staff. Where we swing right from Sarah dying to AJ being born and we're just suppose to be "Aawweeeee, how cute." and I'm just thinking "So how long does the kid got before everyone is cool with letting him die pointlessly?"
If you really think she's too much hassle after not getting her shit together in a few days of non-stop trauma and almost zero support from … morethe apathetic pack of incompetent adults she's stuck with, then you should be all for leaving A.J. behind. Because a baby requires YEARS of constant care, attention and resources just to get him to a mere FRACTION of what Sarah was already capable of and, for all we know, he might end up just like Sarah. With people like Kenny and Jane raising him I wouldn't be surprised if he just ran off like an idiot and got himself killed or just because depressed and let something kill him.
Okay one chill out....
Two I even said I saved her, I liked her but on the second save even after raising the stuff off her she just freaks out and dosnt try to get out. Also I fail to see how Carlos did what he did, wernt they part of carvers camp before? Eh Sarah was freaking out way before all that, she has mild pani… [view original content]
Okay one chill out....
No I think I'm done being chill about this topic, so let's really get into this. I want to discuss this sicke… morening disconnect between people with a dismissal at best and sadistic at worst attitude towards Sarah, and yet who would probably consider leaving A.J. inconceivable. Why is it when you see this:
You're annoyed. But when you saw this:
Your first instinct was probably to run out and grab A.J. Why? Isn't he probably going to die later anyways? Why isn't anyone annoyed at the massive burden A.J. represents? I'll tell you why. It's because A.J. is just a damn concept, like almost every "character" in season two. No humanity or even actually fucking logic was applied in creating A.J. and that's how he's treated in the story. Just a cute object for Clem to play with in a few scenes and plot device to motivate Kenny. But he's not treated as a tiny living breathing person with needs.
There's zero … [view original content]
Eh, how they treat someone in a fictional environment is not how they might treat them in life.
Sadly, I think the DEVELOPERS mistook what fans were going to read in Sarah's character. Jane gave an epic speech about why Sarah was doomed and would never survive.
Which I thought was **** but the developers seemed to think was some big statement.
I think they thought Sarah was the Load and not an endearing character.
"Sigh" Part of me feels you not reading what I write and just assume i laughed my head off when Sarah died and that I hated her guts, thats not the case
Still firstly Sarah is a liability and Aj is too thats not even up for debate, there both gonna get people killed and cant look out for themselves. That dosnt make them bad or that people should hate them. I'm still not so sure why your bursting a blood vessel and seem to think I hate them both; I dont there okay; however I can see the weaknesses as well.
Also again Aj is different, hes a newborn he cant even try to help because its impossible. sarah could be helpling but she dosnt and this is why SOME people find her annoying. I dont as i ended up finding her endearing but thats how it is. I didnt dislike clem, duck or ben even though both were liabilities in their own way because they tried even if they fucked up sometimes.
Furthermore, its still just a videogame these collections of pixels arnt real and my feelings towards them are restricted especially as a long time walking dead fan where death is rampant, on my first playthrough I was sad sarah died however by the end I was getting pretty irritated with her.
AGAIN I like Sarah especially as a character but here is my interaction with her
She is pretty creepy when you meet her, this is probably the best thing she does in the game by helping clem however she insists on being friends first, The scene is clearly intended to make her look a bit creepy due to clems canon reactions. Also the fact shes basically being tricked into giving away medical supplies comes out there as well
The only other thing in ep 1 is carlos saying shes a problem and to stay away from her
In ep 2 she was better but still in your face and for me I was still wary of her, eh especially when she started panicking just because her dad was gone. Also the gun thing showed how naive she truly is, she acted like the whole thing was a game and this is shown by waving a gun (which could have been loaded) around in clems face. Then she started freaking out when carver showed up and didnt help whatsoever. To her credit she hid but she nearly gave the game away I dont know how many times
Thats all she did for the rest of the episode bar a moment where in mine she bitched about the tree topper and screamed the place down, (understandably)
In ep 3 the game (like with Kenny for much of the game) Seems to assume your friends with her (with the way all the characters tell you to help her), I didnt get slapped at the beginning because I didnt insult carver like an idiot. I comforted her about her dad, however was again sort of like meh when she couldnt give me even basic info about the people we were meeting but I let it go she was a child by all means why should she know any better. I also remember being a bit like "wow really" when she told me to go away when I tried to talk to her.
Then she talks when Carver does (for me this is really stupid, there is no excuse for her doing it). That said I felt really bad when she was slapped and I tried to talk carver down. I have to admit my protective instincts kicked in when I saw her huddled; however If it didnt I could totally understand why you would hate Sarah past this point. She then fucks up cutting tree branches, I didnt particulalry like Reggie so I wasnt that fussed but still sarah should have been able to do that honestly without help (I helped her)
I did notice in this episode just how dependent she is on her dad, she freaks out whenever hes not around the only time she ever seems calm, is when hes with her on the night clem is sent to go get the radio. Again shes light enough to help here but she dosnt
Following this in the escape I genuinely was worried for her (contrary to what you think Sarah was one of the people this season I actually really cared about but anyway) , When her dad died I cant blame her but boy she caused some problems, Sarita and Bonnie were both idiots but they would have been fine if she hadnt, Nick too.
4.
In ep 4 I think I was split with most people yes I saved sarah but my respect for Jane actually grew, she cleary dosnt want to help Sarah, And for me honestly I cant blame her she dosnt even know Sarah and she thinks shes like her sister yet she puts herself in harms way protecting them from walkers when she could just run for it, even being the last one out even if you save sarah. Anyway I was kind with Sarah and actually slapping her was one og the worst moments for me however as I comforted her on the way back I realised that it was her last shot, she had to start trying, yes its hard but its hard for everyone.
I talked to her at the ruins I realised she was delusional, she thought her dad was alive. Again I know shes going through it but Sarah again does absolutely nothing to help the group she just sits there. Still I thought she might snap out of it again though even I was thinking it might just be wishful thinking. When the group ran she did come but again just backed up not helping at all and stood by the edge of the thing.
When she fell I didnt even hesitate to save her again and again to Janes credit she tries to help her despite thinking shes lost. However it clicked for me when Jane lifted the decking, Sarah just flails around she dosnt try to riggle out she needs someone to help her through everything. I dotn hate her for it but with her it was really just a matter of time. She was a sad case and it may have been mostly carlos's fault but its still is what it is.
Okay one chill out....
No I think I'm done being chill about this topic, so let's really get into this. I want to discuss this sicke… morening disconnect between people with a dismissal at best and sadistic at worst attitude towards Sarah, and yet who would probably consider leaving A.J. inconceivable. Why is it when you see this:
You're annoyed. But when you saw this:
Your first instinct was probably to run out and grab A.J. Why? Isn't he probably going to die later anyways? Why isn't anyone annoyed at the massive burden A.J. represents? I'll tell you why. It's because A.J. is just a damn concept, like almost every "character" in season two. No humanity or even actually fucking logic was applied in creating A.J. and that's how he's treated in the story. Just a cute object for Clem to play with in a few scenes and plot device to motivate Kenny. But he's not treated as a tiny living breathing person with needs.
There's zero … [view original content]
I read everything you wrote and I know you don't hate Sarah, but that's not the point. The point is simply this, putting up with someone who acts like a baby is a cakewalk compared to raising a literal baby. It's like complaining about a molehill being hard to climb but then immediately thinking you can scale a mountain instead.
"Sigh" Part of me feels you not reading what I write and just assume i laughed my head off when Sarah died and that I hated her guts, thats … morenot the case
Still firstly Sarah is a liability and Aj is too thats not even up for debate, there both gonna get people killed and cant look out for themselves. That dosnt make them bad or that people should hate them. I'm still not so sure why your bursting a blood vessel and seem to think I hate them both; I dont there okay; however I can see the weaknesses as well.
Also again Aj is different, hes a newborn he cant even try to help because its impossible. sarah could be helpling but she dosnt and this is why SOME people find her annoying. I dont as i ended up finding her endearing but thats how it is. I didnt dislike clem, duck or ben even though both were liabilities in their own way because they tried even if they fucked up sometimes.
Furthermore, its still just a videogame these collections… [view original content]
Hmm...If we're going to be bringing up Sarahs victims, how about we bring up Clementines?
* Lee Everett (Indirectly Caused) (Out of Mer… morecy, Determinant)
* Winston (Caused)
* Sam (Accidental) (Out of Mercy, Determinant)
* Nick (Indirectly Caused in "A House Divided") or (Zombified in "Amid The Ruins")
* Alvin (Indirectly Caused, Determinant)
* Reggie (Indirectly Caused, Determinant)
* Sarita (Caused, Determinant) (Before Reanimation, Determinant)
* Sarah (Indirectly Caused, Determinant) or (Caused, Accidental)
* Luke (Caused, Accidental, Determinant) or (Indirectly caused, Determinant)
* Jane (Indirectly Caused, Determinant)
* Kenny (Determinant)
Your argument isn't looking so logical now, is it?
Also Indirectly Determinately Ben himself if he was still alive in final episode, since he died trying to reach Clementine. All though I actually don't go in for these silly kill list things because it involves boiling complex situations down to an overly picky version of the blame game. =P
Also Indirectly Determinately Ben himself if he was still alive in final episode, since he died trying to reach Clementine. All though I act… moreually don't go in for these silly kill list things because it involves boiling complex situations down to an overly picky version of the blame game. =P
But I'm not saying that. With AJ I have the attitude of hes probably going to die, I wont kill him or let him die but I'm prepared for it as its bound to happen sooner or later just like Sarah
I read everything you wrote and I know you don't hate Sarah, but that's not the point. The point is simply this, putting up with someone who… more acts like a baby is a cakewalk compared to raising a literal baby. It's like complaining about a molehill being hard to climb but then immediately thinking you can scale a mountain instead.
So you don't actually care about these people, you assume they will die eventually anyways, but you're still going through the motions to help them just cause...
I'd say that's weird, but sadly that's pretty consistent with any part of the The Walking Dead franchise that wasn't Season 1 of the game. So, all right, my bad, least you're consistent in your approach. I guess I'm at fault. After playing the first season of the game I thought we were suppose to struggle to define our humanity in the absolute worst of times or some shit. But I guess the appeal of the series was just the traditional horror movie game of guessing which characters die and in what order.
But I'm not saying that. With AJ I have the attitude of hes probably going to die, I wont kill him or let him die but I'm prepared for it as its bound to happen sooner or later just like Sarah
No overtime you do sort of become desensitized, thats the real horror of this story. It gets to the point where you dont really care because its impossible for your to, in that setting thats how everyone would be.
So you don't actually care about these people, you assume they will die eventually anyways, but you're still going through the motions to he… morelp them just cause...
I'd say that's weird, but sadly that's pretty consistent with any part of the The Walking Dead franchise that wasn't Season 1 of the game. So, all right, my bad, least you're consistent in your approach. I guess I'm at fault. After playing the first season of the game I thought we were suppose to struggle to define our humanity in the absolute worst of times or some shit. But I guess the appeal of the series was just the traditional horror movie game of guessing which characters die and in what order.
I respect people's opinions, but it sounds like you're just hating on Sarah with every possible insult you can conjure up (I couldn't go FIVE seconds without reading useless profanity), rather than coming up with REASONS that she was a liability. You just kept saying 'crybaby,' 'crybaby,' because of your 'reasoning' of why Sarah is a 'liability,' Because of your lack of reasoning for calling someone something, you're saying that if someone is a crybaby, they are a liability and should be left to die. That's nice to know that there are still heartless people in this already horrid world we live in.
In the zombie apocalypse, you need to be strong, but you ALSO need compassion, without the latter, people won't want to be near you. If you're a compassionate person (Sarah and anyone else like her), you'll do anything to protect the people you care about, it'll benefit yourself and others as there are strength in numbers. If you're a monstrous, vile freak (People like Carver/Jane), you're just sending a message saying 'I don't care about others, I only need myself, and if someone has compassion, they should just die so their useless corpse lies on the ground, removing another 'liability' from this world (apocalyptic world) that CLEARLY needs more heartless people.'
I'm not hating on your opinion, but your reasoning for calling Sarah a 'liability,' based on how you defined 'liability,' you're basically calling everyone with emotion and good morals a liability. I don't want to get caught in arguments, so I'll just be leaving this thread alone from now on.
EDIT: Sarah was your most hated character across TWO SEASONS? Um, Sarah ONLY appeared in Season Two...
Why would I ever just let someone die if I could actually do something to prevent it? Did she have issues? Yes. But so what? That is hardly a valid reason to want her dead.
So yeah, I saved her and you know what? I have zero regrets about it because to me it was and always will be the right thing to do.
I'm very happy to see that there are now more people who defend Sarah. You won't believe the amount of hate I saw towards her character right after episode 4 was released! People were celebrating her death and insulting her (even evil characters like the stranger, Troy or Carver didn't receive this amount of hate!) and I was asking myself "What's wrong with these people ?". Well,I still don't have the answer to that but I think that it's just mindless hating.
I believe that we should not judge or condemn people for what they are but rather for their actions, so it's normal to hate people that hurt you like Carver. But people seem to hate Sarah for what she is and what she represents, just because she isn't this super badass girl like Jane people don't give her any chance. Chances are that if we really lived in the walking dead world, most people would be like Sarah, scared and horrified.
Now, I don't care if you don't like Sarah, you have the right to think what you want but I really think that insulting her like that is inappropriate.You can dislike someone without having to insult them like that,it tells more about you than it does about them.
I don't understand it either. I didn't see anything negative in Sarah. She was a kind and gentle person who helped Clementine when she was in need. She never harmed anyone. I liked her character as much as I liked Clementine's.
I agree that most of us would not be very macho in a very hostile world like the Zombie Apocalypse.
My first reaction to this thread:
I'm very happy to see that there are now more people who defend Sarah. You won't believe the amount… more of hate I saw towards her character right after episode 4 was released! People were celebrating her death and insulting her (even evil characters like the stranger, Troy or Carver didn't receive this amount of hate!) and I was asking myself "What's wrong with these people ?". Well,I still don't have the answer to that but I think that it's just mindless hating.
I believe that we should not judge or condemn people for what they are but rather for their actions, so it's normal to hate people that hurt you like Carver. But people seem to hate Sarah for what she is and what she represents, just because she isn't this super badass girl like Jane people don't give her any chance. Chances are that if we really lived in the walking dead world, most people would be like Sarah, scared and horrified.
Now, I … [view original content]
Because anyone who isn't automatically a badass zombie killing machine and shows weakness during stressful moments apparently means you're a terrible excuse of a human being and deserves a gruesome death no matter what.
It's childish logic at best, there's no justifying it.
I don't understand it either. I didn't see anything negative in Sarah. She was a kind and gentle person who helped Clementine when she was i… moren need. She never harmed anyone. I liked her character as much as I liked Clementine's.
I agree that most of us would not be very macho in a very hostile world like the Zombie Apocalypse.
No overtime you do sort of become desensitized, thats the real horror of this story. It gets to the point where you dont really care because its impossible for your to, in that setting thats how everyone would be.
Compassion is one of the defining traits of humanity. Numerous fossils have been found of our ancient human ancestors caring for the sick an… mored infirm during times of hardship. It runs in our blood. It would be doable to take care of someone like Sarah during a ZA, and survive.
Also, just because someone is a "liability" now, doesn't mean they will be liabilities forever. Given enough time, Clem could've taught Sarah how to shoot and survive, just like Lee taught her.
And this is also part of the reason why Crawford's reign was doomed from the start. They killed off the sick, and the young. CHILDREN. Kill them off, and who would be left to carry on when the adults pass away? Crawford was thinking in the short-term, killing off current liabilities, not considering what potential those "liabilities" had, and what they could've become.
Anyway, people like you are a dying breed. As society advances, more and more people are becoming more a… [view original content]
Ironically, for me, Sarah's death was the only part of Season 2 that got me really emotional. It was like seeing my worst fear from S1 play out right in front of me, which would be watching Clementine die while being helpless to do anything about it. My first play through I was flipping my shit at the end where that cop zombie is trying to eat her and she's screaming for her life. I was clicking everything like a mad man during that scene.
But really it isn't being desensitized that's the problem, it's becoming bored with such a limited formula. How many times can you meet a bunch of people who then just die before you're just tired of it? To actually care about what's happening, the stakes really need to go up at some point. With pockets of survivors turning into small microcosms of society and the story becomes more about the conflict between whole communities of people instead of between small groups of stragglers.
People like the Prison/Woodbury Arc for that but in the comic both sides effectively destroy each other just so things can go back to the group of stragglers trying to survive angle that was already really played out. Probably because that's much easier to write stories with-in and as long as it makes money there isn't much motivation to grow the overarching story.
We become desensitized? I still cry during S1. I've never felt anything aside from a tickling sense of pity in S2.
"They're all dying!!"
Well shit... okay.
The prison battle would be the ending for most movies/shows etc. However the whole concept of the walking dead is that it just keeps going and we get to see what happens next. For me I can still connect with new characters and like them even though I know most will inevitabley perish but still I know many people dont. For me the game is the worst for this because it insists on killing every character bar clementine
Ironically, for me, Sarah's death was the only part of Season 2 that got me really emotional. It was like seeing my worst fear from S1 play … moreout right in front of me, which would be watching Clementine die while being helpless to do anything about it. My first play through I was flipping my shit at the end where that cop zombie is trying to eat her and she's screaming for her life. I was clicking everything like a mad man during that scene.
But really it isn't being desensitized that's the problem, it's becoming bored with such a limited formula. How many times can you meet a bunch of people who then just die before you're just tired of it? To actually care about what's happening, the stakes really need to go up at some point. With pockets of survivors turning into small microcosms of society and the story becomes more about the conflict between whole communities of people instead of between small groups of stragglers.
People like the Pr… [view original content]
Yes, Sarah deserved a chance to survive, but circumstances don't always allow for that. And let's say she did survive the collapsing deck, who exactly is going to spend the time to teach her anything? Everyone would probably be focused on the protection of the baby to even give Sarah the time to reprogram her thought process and how to handle things. Even a younger Clem before meeting Lee was a perceptive person hiding from the walkers for a few days in her treehouse. Sarah is not that perceptive. It would be a huge challenge to change her and the timetable would be uncertain (but definitely longer than Clem's). I saved her in my first playthrough, but damnit I was frustrated and annoyed by her not moving at a timely fashion. Honestly what makes me think that wouldn't happen again? I didn't like her outlook for the future. I can't fault anyone who left her.
Not me, i have no emotional attachment towards that baby. The odds of it living are "Kenny coming back. S3." I see it the opposite Sarah helped Clementine, when she needed it, If given the choice i would of chosen Sarah over the baby.
Yes, Sarah deserved a chance to survive, but circumstances don't always allow for that. And let's say she did survive the collapsing deck, … morewho exactly is going to spend the time to teach her anything? Everyone would probably be focused on the protection of the baby to even give Sarah the time to reprogram her thought process and how to handle things. Even a younger Clem before meeting Lee was a perceptive person hiding from the walkers for a few days in her treehouse. Sarah is not that perceptive. It would be a huge challenge to change her and the timetable would be uncertain (but definitely longer than Clem's). I saved her in my first playthrough, but damnit I was frustrated and annoyed by her not moving at a timely fashion. Honestly what makes me think that wouldn't happen again? I didn't like her outlook for the future. I can't fault anyone who left her.
It was the most emotional for me also, but I'm confident in saying that it was mostly the disturbing sounds and screams she made before and during her death. I'd like to view her death as a recognition of what S1 may have had in store for my little Clem, but to be honest I never connected with her. I don't blame that on her character. She was an extremely intricate, well placed, and interesting idea. But no depth to her character's part in the story and Clementine's lack of depth concerning her character just made her feel like another device. She dies and instead of horror it's more "Yeah, I knew it." (Topped with grimaced looks. Props to the VA!)
I find the deaths of people fine. That is until is becomes trivial and a guessing game. When a character walks on screen and your first thought is how many episodes he or she has left then something is wrong. And to be quite honest, I didn't get that feeling at the start of this season. I was very excited when I saw Luke and Pete scoop Clementine up from the cold, soggy ground. But they never went anywhere. There was hardly any connection between the characters. I felt as connected to Pete within the first 15 minutes as I did with Alvin, Rebecca, Nick, etc. throughout all their arduous time in the game.
Ironically, for me, Sarah's death was the only part of Season 2 that got me really emotional. It was like seeing my worst fear from S1 play … moreout right in front of me, which would be watching Clementine die while being helpless to do anything about it. My first play through I was flipping my shit at the end where that cop zombie is trying to eat her and she's screaming for her life. I was clicking everything like a mad man during that scene.
But really it isn't being desensitized that's the problem, it's becoming bored with such a limited formula. How many times can you meet a bunch of people who then just die before you're just tired of it? To actually care about what's happening, the stakes really need to go up at some point. With pockets of survivors turning into small microcosms of society and the story becomes more about the conflict between whole communities of people instead of between small groups of stragglers.
People like the Pr… [view original content]
She was an extremely intricate, well placed, and interesting idea. But no depth to her character's part in the story and Clementine's lack of depth concerning her character just made her feel like another device.
Yeah...
Crazy as I am about Sarah it's more about the actual potential her character offered then what she was actually used for in the story, and even that's with a nine-year old Clem who still has emotions, and gets scared, and likes people and probably has a reason to remain alive. All we got was Sarah being sacrificed to the already bloody shrine of "The Badass Clementine!"
I also probably connect with her character more personally because I seem to share a lot of the same issues she likely has. People are wondering about her immaturity at her age but I just assumed she was homeschooled. Carlos is overprotective, she has panic attacks, seems like a natural conclusion. Lack of interaction with peers can stunt your maturity. Probably explains the loneliness as well. I homeschooled my high school years because of stress issues and a difficultly relating to people my own age and it led to kind of an arrested adolescence. It's weird watching your younger siblings pass milestones into adulthood before you and depressing to feel like you have no friends of your own.
Her empathetic nature and her getting upset at people's pain also hits closer to home for me. I actually talked to a therapist about it once and she told me it takes most people a very long time (she said 30+ years) to develop a strong sense of empathy for others and some people never actually do at all. People who develop it much younger tend to have problems relating to anxiety because they worry all the time and haven't found a way deal with it yet.
Combine all that with Sarah's trauma conga line in Ep 3 and her horrifying death in Ep 4 and it felt like a massive gut punch for me, even if it was meant as a mean spirited take that by the writers.
It was the most emotional for me also, but I'm confident in saying that it was mostly the disturbing sounds and screams she made before and … moreduring her death. I'd like to view her death as a recognition of what S1 may have had in store for my little Clem, but to be honest I never connected with her. I don't blame that on her character. She was an extremely intricate, well placed, and interesting idea. But no depth to her character's part in the story and Clementine's lack of depth concerning her character just made her feel like another device. She dies and instead of horror it's more "Yeah, I knew it." (Topped with grimaced looks. Props to the VA!)
I find the deaths of people fine. That is until is becomes trivial and a guessing game. When a character walks on screen and your first thought is how many episodes he or she has left then something is wrong. And to be quite honest, I didn't get that feeling at the start of this season. I was ve… [view original content]
She was an extremely intricate, well placed, and interesting idea. But no depth to her character's part in the story and Clementine's lack o… moref depth concerning her character just made her feel like another device.
Yeah...
Crazy as I am about Sarah it's more about the actual potential her character offered then what she was actually used for in the story, and even that's with a nine-year old Clem who still has emotions, and gets scared, and likes people and probably has a reason to remain alive. All we got was Sarah being sacrificed to the already bloody shrine of "The Badass Clementine!"
I also probably connect with her character more personally because I seem to share a lot of the same issues she likely has. People are wondering about her immaturity at her age but I just assumed she was homeschooled. Carlos is overprotective, she has panic attacks, seems like a natural conclusion. Lack of interaction with peers can stunt your ma… [view original content]
What bothered me about Sarah's second death was less its inevitability than the abrupt, ridiculous execution of it. Amid The Ruins felt most obviously like part of a constructed universe that was actively designed to frustrate players with arbitrary deaths and illogical behavior. The illusion of realism was less convincing than anything else seen so far, and I called bullshit on that.
Seeing the writers dismiss her in interviews, giving credence to the gamers who hated her for being a 'weak' character or whatever, was a gut-punch in a way that was DEFINITELY not intended. It's a tragedy that turns me against the story, rather than invests me further in it.
I think the reason why I really liked Sarah was due to me being burned-out with 'dark' escapism. I used to love extreme violence, unrelenting cynicism, and rampant machismo. In a way, I still do. But it gets exhausting when one's oversaturated with the same kind of media over and over. After a while, you want to tackle a grim, vicious story where you don't HAVE TO be cold-blooded to survive. Much like real life, even the most horrific scenarios still have room for humanity. Juxtaposing beauty and kindness with genuinely insane cruelty makes both aspects feel even stronger - one of the things I do love about Season 2 is its expanded color palette and beautiful environments being the background for explicit violence.
I was much more interested in seeing a little girl and her teenage friend survive grotesque horrors rather than have the nice people be killed off for the "character development" of the badass protagonists. I wanted a story about friendship and a little girl's coming of age - one that doesn't shy away from the hideous violence people are capable of. It's a fresh idea. We're pretty damn steeped in cynical, anti-hero stories right now, and it gets mind-numbingly repetitive. I don't want to be offered only two options to empathize with: Angry Middle-Aged White Guy with Manpain (Kenny) or Cold-Blooded-But-Secretly-Sensitive-Strong-Female Character (Jane). There are other, more sympathetic characters who are worth more attention.
P.S. Did you know that Sarah was written with PTSD? That totally explains how she acts like an ordinary traumatized 15-year-old girl. I'm sure Nick, Kenny, Clem, Jane and Christa don't have it.
She was an extremely intricate, well placed, and interesting idea. But no depth to her character's part in the story and Clementine's lack o… moref depth concerning her character just made her feel like another device.
Yeah...
Crazy as I am about Sarah it's more about the actual potential her character offered then what she was actually used for in the story, and even that's with a nine-year old Clem who still has emotions, and gets scared, and likes people and probably has a reason to remain alive. All we got was Sarah being sacrificed to the already bloody shrine of "The Badass Clementine!"
I also probably connect with her character more personally because I seem to share a lot of the same issues she likely has. People are wondering about her immaturity at her age but I just assumed she was homeschooled. Carlos is overprotective, she has panic attacks, seems like a natural conclusion. Lack of interaction with peers can stunt your ma… [view original content]
Because she isn't a cold survivalist like Jane or Carver. I hate characters who only look out for themselves and nobody else, Sarah just wanted the best for everybody.
Much like real life, even the most horrific scenarios still have room for humanity. Juxtaposing beauty and kindness with genuinely insane cruelty makes both aspects feel even stronger.
Indeed, it can be like the light at the end of a tunnel. It gives you something to move towards. Without that you have total darkness, and in that there's little motivation to move at all.
S1 excelled at this. Something as simple as pushing Clementine on a swing for a few minutes felt very uplifting and got the audience to lower their guard a little, which made it MORE horrifying when Clementine is a bite away from eating part of Mark. S1 also had a lot of funny and witty dialogue that would lighten the mood which used in the proper amounts made the dramatic spots feel that much more meaningful.
I was actually shocked in Harm's Way when Bonnie gives you the jacket and tries to talk it up before Tavia comes in and casually asks "What's with the ugly jacket." I think they may have been the first time I laughed in Season 2. And something simple as putting the Angel on the tree and seeing Sarah smile meant a lot more to me then seeing Kenny immediately starting an argument with strangers despite seemingly being a pretty good place all things considered.
I was much more interested in seeing a little girl and her teenage friend survive grotesque horrors rather than have the nice people be killed off for the "character development" of the badass protagonists.
Have you ever seen "Grave of the Fireflies"? It's an animated movie based on autobiographical account of a young man and his kid sister trying to survive on their own in a post World War II Japan. Incidentally the challenges they face are just simple ones like finding food but seeing them struggle with such basic needs just makes it all the more heart wrenching to watch.
What bothered me about Sarah's second death was less its inevitability than the abrupt, ridiculous execution of it. Amid The Ruins felt mos… moret obviously like part of a constructed universe that was actively designed to frustrate players with arbitrary deaths and illogical behavior. The illusion of realism was less convincing than anything else seen so far, and I called bullshit on that.
Seeing the writers dismiss her in interviews, giving credence to the gamers who hated her for being a 'weak' character or whatever, was a gut-punch in a way that was DEFINITELY not intended. It's a tragedy that turns me against the story, rather than invests me further in it.
I think the reason why I really liked Sarah was due to me being burned-out with 'dark' escapism. I used to love extreme violence, unrelenting cynicism, and rampant machismo. In a way, I still do. But it gets exhausting when one's oversaturated with the same kind of media over an… [view original content]
Despite the deliberate intention of being 'darker' and more hopeless than the previous Season, S2 also has moments which are intended to provide levity and redemption for characters who the writers think deserve it. Hence we get Kenny acting out of character to squeeze 'feels' out of us, whether it's acting submissive to the Wellington guards, forgiving Clem for siding with a baby-killer and murdering him, or allowing her to leave him/kill him and fend for herself. Or Jane finding the heart to allow a starving family into a community.
I guess that this is a case of the developers having their cake and eating it as well. You can't be 'darker' and still commit to the cheesy cliche of having Clem's second father-figure have a teary-eyed last speech with her. Why not go all the way and traumatize Clem completely? Have her trusted guardians turn out to be beyond redemption. Force her to deliberately murder innocent strangers she has no personal quarrel with as a child-soldier (which was implied by Amid The Ruins' title slide). Force her to see her innocent friends corrupt themselves in response to the tragedies they experience. Force her to be permanently crippled. Force her sadistic tendencies to have lasting consequences. Force her to deal with the unique traumas that young girls have to deal with.
Because that is realistic. Plenty of real children in real war-torn lands suffer far worse at the hands of humanity than what Clem has, and without the presence of slow-moving, brain-dead cannibals to explain such cruelty. You want a brutal, unrelenting story about children growing up in an 'apocalypse', just look at real kids in the Congo and Syria are going through right now.
It'll probably be 'too dark' for gamers, though. Ironic, innit?
Much like real life, even the most horrific scenarios still have room for humanity. Juxtaposing beauty and kindness with genuinely insane cr… moreuelty makes both aspects feel even stronger.
Indeed, it can be like the light at the end of a tunnel. It gives you something to move towards. Without that you have total darkness, and in that there's little motivation to move at all.
S1 excelled at this. Something as simple as pushing Clementine on a swing for a few minutes felt very uplifting and got the audience to lower their guard a little, which made it MORE horrifying when Clementine is a bite away from eating part of Mark. S1 also had a lot of funny and witty dialogue that would lighten the mood which used in the proper amounts made the dramatic spots feel that much more meaningful.
I was actually shocked in Harm's Way when Bonnie gives you the jacket and tries to talk it up before Tavia comes in and casually asks "What's with the ugl… [view original content]
if it wasn't thanks to Sarah clementine wouldn't have been able to clean her wound so in a way she saved clem. yeah she was a bit useless after that but if someone saved your life you would be forever grateful.
Comments
Compassion is one of the defining traits of humanity. Numerous fossils have been found of our ancient human ancestors caring for the sick and infirm during times of hardship. It runs in our blood. It would be doable to take care of someone like Sarah during a ZA, and survive.
Also, just because someone is a "liability" now, doesn't mean they will be liabilities forever. Given enough time, Clem could've taught Sarah how to shoot and survive, just like Lee taught her.
And this is also part of the reason why Crawford's reign was doomed from the start. They killed off the sick, and the young. CHILDREN. Kill them off, and who would be left to carry on when the adults pass away? Crawford was thinking in the short-term, killing off current liabilities, not considering what potential those "liabilities" had, and what they could've become.
Anyway, people like you are a dying breed. As society advances, more and more people are becoming more and more compassionate with each other. In ancient times, around 20% of people died at the hands of someone else. Now, less than 1% of people do. People used to flog and beat prisoners, and grievously torture them using elaborate or plain brutal devices. People used to own slaves. There were no women's rights, no Geneva convention, no United Nations, no universal healthcare. Nowadays many people are more than willing to help each other, so many support services have been created. So many things have happened, it is impossible to talk about them all here. Nowadays we don't just leave the sick, young and infirm to die. Compassion will eventually win out, along with the advancement of society.
Yes, she has anxiety issues.
Telltale confirmed that she had some form of PTSD.
No I think I'm done being chill about this topic, so let's really get into this. I want to discuss this sickening disconnect between people with a dismissal at best and sadistic at worst attitude towards Sarah, and yet who would probably consider leaving A.J. inconceivable. Why is it when you see this:
You're annoyed. But when you saw this:
Your first instinct was probably to run out and grab A.J. Why? Isn't he probably going to die later anyways? Why isn't anyone annoyed at the massive burden A.J. represents? I'll tell you why. It's because A.J. is just a damn concept, like almost every "character" in season two. No humanity or even actually fucking logic was applied in creating A.J. and that's how he's treated in the story. Just a cute object for Clem to play with in a few scenes and plot device to motivate Kenny. But he's not treated as a tiny living breathing person with needs.
There's zero concern when Kenny takes a newborn out into the fucking cold just cause he wants to. There's actually more concern for Kenny himself coming back for a drink. There's no actual talk about how the hell their going to raise a child, outside of Kenny saying he'll raise it "tough". Will "tough" include teaching the kid to speak, read, write, count and dozens and hundreds of other basic skills and facts that you would need to simply function, let along in a survival scenario? The problem of feeding A.J. is brushed aside as formula is suddenly just wielded into existence out of fucking nowhere just to give Kenny an excuse to push everyone to keep moving.
You have any idea how long babies need breast milk or formula? It's twelve months. And it's usually a bare minimum of four months before they can even digest solid food as well. Then you'll need to worry about food allergies especially considering there isn't any hospitals really left in the world. Plus all the many many diseases a newborn would be vulnerable to due to their underdeveloped immune systems. Even the common cold can be fatal to newborns because their bodies aren't at a point where they can fight it. Do you know how high infant mortality rates were before modern medicine? Which wouldn't readily be available anymore. Then even if A.J does survive for a while he's going to get too big too carry everywhere. Just after a year an average baby boy weighs about twenty pounds. That's a lot to tote around in addition to supplies and equipment.
And don't say you don't want to talk about any of this unless you're also willing to say you're in favor of simply abandoning A.J. Don't tell me he's not a liability after suggesting Sarah was one. Don't pretend like you'd have the patience for all this when you have so little for someone who was still grieving the very recent loss of a loved one. Don't think Kenny, Jane or Clem could handle this, the man who admitted to spending too much time away from his first family, the woman who's in favor of abandoning people who slow her down and an eleven year old who probably doesn't even know how babies are made. Don't try and reason that it's worth finding A.J. somewhere safe, but not Sarah as well. And don't even suggest there's no way the writing staff could have helped the audience feel the massive weight of caring for a baby, because they could have quite easily with one minor a change.
Have A.J. start crying when the group reaches the frozen lake. That's it. And I'm mean really crying, like an actual baby. Not that minor fussiness crap Clem can make a face to appease, I mean the kid really gets upset. Any parent will tell there's at least one night where they just couldn't get their kid to stop crying, if not several. So that could happen here and the group can't get him to calm down and the walkers start coming, forcing them to cross the frozen lake right then, which leads to Luke's death. And just with that, the audience would have a faint idea of just how very very hard it's going to be to raise a baby in such a shitty fucked up world.
But they didn't do that. And they didn't do that, or anything that would make the audience think of A.J. as anything other than object needing protecting because they didn't want to risk turning away anyone in the stereotypical gaming demographic. The young guys who just want to see the next "badass moment" and not deal with the issues of child rearing, a young girl grieving or really anything that would elevate this story above just running from point A to B to fight zombies and occasionally humans. They don't want to deal with that, not unless the character dealing with it is also a "badass" zombie killer they want to keep around.
There reason some people are cool with A.J. and so irritated by Sarah is the later actually reminds you more of a person. With motivation, flaws, and emotions. Dealing with people is often hard and frustrating, so that can be seen as the case with Sarah. And since so little of the S2 cast actually acts all that human, she stands out like a sore thumb. Wonder how fast those good vibes for A.J. would disappear if Season 3 opened with spending thirty fucking minutes trying to get him to stop crying before going out for your hundredth run to get more baby formula.
So yeah, I'm really fucking sick of hearing shit about Sarah from people who probably haven't put a single second of thought into what raising a baby, let along raising a baby during the end of the world, would entail. And that includes the damn writing staff. Where we swing right from Sarah dying to AJ being born and we're just suppose to be "Aawweeeee, how cute." and I'm just thinking "So how long does the kid got before everyone is cool with letting him die pointlessly?"
Never forget: Clementine covered a newborn baby with rotten human innards. He's silent because she killed him.
Or because Telltale is more concerned with SYMBOLISM than logic.
Eh, how they treat someone in a fictional environment is not how they might treat them in life.
Sadly, I think the DEVELOPERS mistook what fans were going to read in Sarah's character. Jane gave an epic speech about why Sarah was doomed and would never survive.
Which I thought was **** but the developers seemed to think was some big statement.
I think they thought Sarah was the Load and not an endearing character.
Hmm...If we're going to be bringing up Sarahs victims, how about we bring up Clementines?
Your argument isn't looking so logical now, is it?
"Sigh" Part of me feels you not reading what I write and just assume i laughed my head off when Sarah died and that I hated her guts, thats not the case
Still firstly Sarah is a liability and Aj is too thats not even up for debate, there both gonna get people killed and cant look out for themselves. That dosnt make them bad or that people should hate them. I'm still not so sure why your bursting a blood vessel and seem to think I hate them both; I dont there okay; however I can see the weaknesses as well.
Also again Aj is different, hes a newborn he cant even try to help because its impossible. sarah could be helpling but she dosnt and this is why SOME people find her annoying. I dont as i ended up finding her endearing but thats how it is. I didnt dislike clem, duck or ben even though both were liabilities in their own way because they tried even if they fucked up sometimes.
Furthermore, its still just a videogame these collections of pixels arnt real and my feelings towards them are restricted especially as a long time walking dead fan where death is rampant, on my first playthrough I was sad sarah died however by the end I was getting pretty irritated with her.
AGAIN I like Sarah especially as a character but here is my interaction with her
The only other thing in ep 1 is carlos saying shes a problem and to stay away from her
Thats all she did for the rest of the episode bar a moment where in mine she bitched about the tree topper and screamed the place down, (understandably)
Then she talks when Carver does (for me this is really stupid, there is no excuse for her doing it). That said I felt really bad when she was slapped and I tried to talk carver down. I have to admit my protective instincts kicked in when I saw her huddled; however If it didnt I could totally understand why you would hate Sarah past this point. She then fucks up cutting tree branches, I didnt particulalry like Reggie so I wasnt that fussed but still sarah should have been able to do that honestly without help (I helped her)
I did notice in this episode just how dependent she is on her dad, she freaks out whenever hes not around the only time she ever seems calm, is when hes with her on the night clem is sent to go get the radio. Again shes light enough to help here but she dosnt
Following this in the escape I genuinely was worried for her (contrary to what you think Sarah was one of the people this season I actually really cared about but anyway) , When her dad died I cant blame her but boy she caused some problems, Sarita and Bonnie were both idiots but they would have been fine if she hadnt, Nick too.
4.
In ep 4 I think I was split with most people yes I saved sarah but my respect for Jane actually grew, she cleary dosnt want to help Sarah, And for me honestly I cant blame her she dosnt even know Sarah and she thinks shes like her sister yet she puts herself in harms way protecting them from walkers when she could just run for it, even being the last one out even if you save sarah. Anyway I was kind with Sarah and actually slapping her was one og the worst moments for me however as I comforted her on the way back I realised that it was her last shot, she had to start trying, yes its hard but its hard for everyone.
I talked to her at the ruins I realised she was delusional, she thought her dad was alive. Again I know shes going through it but Sarah again does absolutely nothing to help the group she just sits there. Still I thought she might snap out of it again though even I was thinking it might just be wishful thinking. When the group ran she did come but again just backed up not helping at all and stood by the edge of the thing.
When she fell I didnt even hesitate to save her again and again to Janes credit she tries to help her despite thinking shes lost. However it clicked for me when Jane lifted the decking, Sarah just flails around she dosnt try to riggle out she needs someone to help her through everything. I dotn hate her for it but with her it was really just a matter of time. She was a sad case and it may have been mostly carlos's fault but its still is what it is.
So there you go
I read everything you wrote and I know you don't hate Sarah, but that's not the point. The point is simply this, putting up with someone who acts like a baby is a cakewalk compared to raising a literal baby. It's like complaining about a molehill being hard to climb but then immediately thinking you can scale a mountain instead.
Clem: has a bigger list of victims than Ben. (also you forgot the Stranger)
Also Indirectly Determinately Ben himself if he was still alive in final episode, since he died trying to reach Clementine. All though I actually don't go in for these silly kill list things because it involves boiling complex situations down to an overly picky version of the blame game. =P
Also Johnny, since she can tell Kenny to shoot him (yet he does it anyway so that's also debatable :P).
But I'm not saying that. With AJ I have the attitude of hes probably going to die, I wont kill him or let him die but I'm prepared for it as its bound to happen sooner or later just like Sarah
So you don't actually care about these people, you assume they will die eventually anyways, but you're still going through the motions to help them just cause...
I'd say that's weird, but sadly that's pretty consistent with any part of the The Walking Dead franchise that wasn't Season 1 of the game. So, all right, my bad, least you're consistent in your approach. I guess I'm at fault. After playing the first season of the game I thought we were suppose to struggle to define our humanity in the absolute worst of times or some shit. But I guess the appeal of the series was just the traditional horror movie game of guessing which characters die and in what order.
Why would you let a girl who hasn't actually done anything wrong die?
No overtime you do sort of become desensitized, thats the real horror of this story. It gets to the point where you dont really care because its impossible for your to, in that setting thats how everyone would be.
I respect people's opinions, but it sounds like you're just hating on Sarah with every possible insult you can conjure up (I couldn't go FIVE seconds without reading useless profanity), rather than coming up with REASONS that she was a liability. You just kept saying 'crybaby,' 'crybaby,' because of your 'reasoning' of why Sarah is a 'liability,' Because of your lack of reasoning for calling someone something, you're saying that if someone is a crybaby, they are a liability and should be left to die. That's nice to know that there are still heartless people in this already horrid world we live in.
In the zombie apocalypse, you need to be strong, but you ALSO need compassion, without the latter, people won't want to be near you. If you're a compassionate person (Sarah and anyone else like her), you'll do anything to protect the people you care about, it'll benefit yourself and others as there are strength in numbers. If you're a monstrous, vile freak (People like Carver/Jane), you're just sending a message saying 'I don't care about others, I only need myself, and if someone has compassion, they should just die so their useless corpse lies on the ground, removing another 'liability' from this world (apocalyptic world) that CLEARLY needs more heartless people.'
I'm not hating on your opinion, but your reasoning for calling Sarah a 'liability,' based on how you defined 'liability,' you're basically calling everyone with emotion and good morals a liability. I don't want to get caught in arguments, so I'll just be leaving this thread alone from now on.
EDIT: Sarah was your most hated character across TWO SEASONS? Um, Sarah ONLY appeared in Season Two...
"She was my most hated character across the two seasons"
shewasonlyinoneseasonmofo
Why did I save her???
Why would I ever just let someone die if I could actually do something to prevent it? Did she have issues? Yes. But so what? That is hardly a valid reason to want her dead.
So yeah, I saved her and you know what? I have zero regrets about it because to me it was and always will be the right thing to do.
Official rekt chap.
My first reaction to this thread:
I'm very happy to see that there are now more people who defend Sarah. You won't believe the amount of hate I saw towards her character right after episode 4 was released! People were celebrating her death and insulting her (even evil characters like the stranger, Troy or Carver didn't receive this amount of hate!) and I was asking myself "What's wrong with these people ?". Well,I still don't have the answer to that but I think that it's just mindless hating.
I believe that we should not judge or condemn people for what they are but rather for their actions, so it's normal to hate people that hurt you like Carver. But people seem to hate Sarah for what she is and what she represents, just because she isn't this super badass girl like Jane people don't give her any chance. Chances are that if we really lived in the walking dead world, most people would be like Sarah, scared and horrified.
Now, I don't care if you don't like Sarah, you have the right to think what you want but I really think that insulting her like that is inappropriate.You can dislike someone without having to insult them like that,it tells more about you than it does about them.
I don't understand it either. I didn't see anything negative in Sarah. She was a kind and gentle person who helped Clementine when she was in need. She never harmed anyone. I liked her character as much as I liked Clementine's.
I agree that most of us would not be very macho in a very hostile world like the Zombie Apocalypse.
Because anyone who isn't automatically a badass zombie killing machine and shows weakness during stressful moments apparently means you're a terrible excuse of a human being and deserves a gruesome death no matter what.
It's childish logic at best, there's no justifying it.
We become desensitized? I still cry during S1. I've never felt anything aside from a tickling sense of pity in S2.
"They're all dying!!"
Well shit... okay.
Your post just gave me such a reinvigorated sense of hope.
Ironically, for me, Sarah's death was the only part of Season 2 that got me really emotional. It was like seeing my worst fear from S1 play out right in front of me, which would be watching Clementine die while being helpless to do anything about it. My first play through I was flipping my shit at the end where that cop zombie is trying to eat her and she's screaming for her life. I was clicking everything like a mad man during that scene.
But really it isn't being desensitized that's the problem, it's becoming bored with such a limited formula. How many times can you meet a bunch of people who then just die before you're just tired of it? To actually care about what's happening, the stakes really need to go up at some point. With pockets of survivors turning into small microcosms of society and the story becomes more about the conflict between whole communities of people instead of between small groups of stragglers.
People like the Prison/Woodbury Arc for that but in the comic both sides effectively destroy each other just so things can go back to the group of stragglers trying to survive angle that was already really played out. Probably because that's much easier to write stories with-in and as long as it makes money there isn't much motivation to grow the overarching story.
The prison battle would be the ending for most movies/shows etc. However the whole concept of the walking dead is that it just keeps going and we get to see what happens next. For me I can still connect with new characters and like them even though I know most will inevitabley perish but still I know many people dont. For me the game is the worst for this because it insists on killing every character bar clementine
I support Gary for State Senator.
Lets GOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo,
I always liked Sarah, as a Combat PTSD vet, i would rather be with someone like Sarah, then someone like Jane.
Yes, Sarah deserved a chance to survive, but circumstances don't always allow for that. And let's say she did survive the collapsing deck, who exactly is going to spend the time to teach her anything? Everyone would probably be focused on the protection of the baby to even give Sarah the time to reprogram her thought process and how to handle things. Even a younger Clem before meeting Lee was a perceptive person hiding from the walkers for a few days in her treehouse. Sarah is not that perceptive. It would be a huge challenge to change her and the timetable would be uncertain (but definitely longer than Clem's). I saved her in my first playthrough, but damnit I was frustrated and annoyed by her not moving at a timely fashion. Honestly what makes me think that wouldn't happen again? I didn't like her outlook for the future. I can't fault anyone who left her.
Not me, i have no emotional attachment towards that baby. The odds of it living are "Kenny coming back. S3." I see it the opposite Sarah helped Clementine, when she needed it, If given the choice i would of chosen Sarah over the baby.
It was the most emotional for me also, but I'm confident in saying that it was mostly the disturbing sounds and screams she made before and during her death. I'd like to view her death as a recognition of what S1 may have had in store for my little Clem, but to be honest I never connected with her. I don't blame that on her character. She was an extremely intricate, well placed, and interesting idea. But no depth to her character's part in the story and Clementine's lack of depth concerning her character just made her feel like another device. She dies and instead of horror it's more "Yeah, I knew it." (Topped with grimaced looks. Props to the VA!)
I find the deaths of people fine. That is until is becomes trivial and a guessing game. When a character walks on screen and your first thought is how many episodes he or she has left then something is wrong. And to be quite honest, I didn't get that feeling at the start of this season. I was very excited when I saw Luke and Pete scoop Clementine up from the cold, soggy ground. But they never went anywhere. There was hardly any connection between the characters. I felt as connected to Pete within the first 15 minutes as I did with Alvin, Rebecca, Nick, etc. throughout all their arduous time in the game.
Yeah...
Crazy as I am about Sarah it's more about the actual potential her character offered then what she was actually used for in the story, and even that's with a nine-year old Clem who still has emotions, and gets scared, and likes people and probably has a reason to remain alive. All we got was Sarah being sacrificed to the already bloody shrine of "The Badass Clementine!"
I also probably connect with her character more personally because I seem to share a lot of the same issues she likely has. People are wondering about her immaturity at her age but I just assumed she was homeschooled. Carlos is overprotective, she has panic attacks, seems like a natural conclusion. Lack of interaction with peers can stunt your maturity. Probably explains the loneliness as well. I homeschooled my high school years because of stress issues and a difficultly relating to people my own age and it led to kind of an arrested adolescence. It's weird watching your younger siblings pass milestones into adulthood before you and depressing to feel like you have no friends of your own.
Her empathetic nature and her getting upset at people's pain also hits closer to home for me. I actually talked to a therapist about it once and she told me it takes most people a very long time (she said 30+ years) to develop a strong sense of empathy for others and some people never actually do at all. People who develop it much younger tend to have problems relating to anxiety because they worry all the time and haven't found a way deal with it yet.
Combine all that with Sarah's trauma conga line in Ep 3 and her horrifying death in Ep 4 and it felt like a massive gut punch for me, even if it was meant as a mean spirited take that by the writers.
Sounds like you and I are sailing on the same boat my friend.
EDIT: I was going to go into more detail, but then realized this probably wasn't a good place for me to do so.
What bothered me about Sarah's second death was less its inevitability than the abrupt, ridiculous execution of it. Amid The Ruins felt most obviously like part of a constructed universe that was actively designed to frustrate players with arbitrary deaths and illogical behavior. The illusion of realism was less convincing than anything else seen so far, and I called bullshit on that.
Seeing the writers dismiss her in interviews, giving credence to the gamers who hated her for being a 'weak' character or whatever, was a gut-punch in a way that was DEFINITELY not intended. It's a tragedy that turns me against the story, rather than invests me further in it.
I think the reason why I really liked Sarah was due to me being burned-out with 'dark' escapism. I used to love extreme violence, unrelenting cynicism, and rampant machismo. In a way, I still do. But it gets exhausting when one's oversaturated with the same kind of media over and over. After a while, you want to tackle a grim, vicious story where you don't HAVE TO be cold-blooded to survive. Much like real life, even the most horrific scenarios still have room for humanity. Juxtaposing beauty and kindness with genuinely insane cruelty makes both aspects feel even stronger - one of the things I do love about Season 2 is its expanded color palette and beautiful environments being the background for explicit violence.
I was much more interested in seeing a little girl and her teenage friend survive grotesque horrors rather than have the nice people be killed off for the "character development" of the badass protagonists. I wanted a story about friendship and a little girl's coming of age - one that doesn't shy away from the hideous violence people are capable of. It's a fresh idea. We're pretty damn steeped in cynical, anti-hero stories right now, and it gets mind-numbingly repetitive. I don't want to be offered only two options to empathize with: Angry Middle-Aged White Guy with Manpain (Kenny) or Cold-Blooded-But-Secretly-Sensitive-Strong-Female Character (Jane). There are other, more sympathetic characters who are worth more attention.
P.S. Did you know that Sarah was written with PTSD? That totally explains how she acts like an ordinary traumatized 15-year-old girl. I'm sure Nick, Kenny, Clem, Jane and Christa don't have it.
Because she isn't a cold survivalist like Jane or Carver. I hate characters who only look out for themselves and nobody else, Sarah just wanted the best for everybody.
Indeed, it can be like the light at the end of a tunnel. It gives you something to move towards. Without that you have total darkness, and in that there's little motivation to move at all.
S1 excelled at this. Something as simple as pushing Clementine on a swing for a few minutes felt very uplifting and got the audience to lower their guard a little, which made it MORE horrifying when Clementine is a bite away from eating part of Mark. S1 also had a lot of funny and witty dialogue that would lighten the mood which used in the proper amounts made the dramatic spots feel that much more meaningful.
I was actually shocked in Harm's Way when Bonnie gives you the jacket and tries to talk it up before Tavia comes in and casually asks "What's with the ugly jacket." I think they may have been the first time I laughed in Season 2. And something simple as putting the Angel on the tree and seeing Sarah smile meant a lot more to me then seeing Kenny immediately starting an argument with strangers despite seemingly being a pretty good place all things considered.
Have you ever seen "Grave of the Fireflies"? It's an animated movie based on autobiographical account of a young man and his kid sister trying to survive on their own in a post World War II Japan. Incidentally the challenges they face are just simple ones like finding food but seeing them struggle with such basic needs just makes it all the more heart wrenching to watch.
Despite the deliberate intention of being 'darker' and more hopeless than the previous Season, S2 also has moments which are intended to provide levity and redemption for characters who the writers think deserve it. Hence we get Kenny acting out of character to squeeze 'feels' out of us, whether it's acting submissive to the Wellington guards, forgiving Clem for siding with a baby-killer and murdering him, or allowing her to leave him/kill him and fend for herself. Or Jane finding the heart to allow a starving family into a community.
I guess that this is a case of the developers having their cake and eating it as well. You can't be 'darker' and still commit to the cheesy cliche of having Clem's second father-figure have a teary-eyed last speech with her. Why not go all the way and traumatize Clem completely? Have her trusted guardians turn out to be beyond redemption. Force her to deliberately murder innocent strangers she has no personal quarrel with as a child-soldier (which was implied by Amid The Ruins' title slide). Force her to see her innocent friends corrupt themselves in response to the tragedies they experience. Force her to be permanently crippled. Force her sadistic tendencies to have lasting consequences. Force her to deal with the unique traumas that young girls have to deal with.
Because that is realistic. Plenty of real children in real war-torn lands suffer far worse at the hands of humanity than what Clem has, and without the presence of slow-moving, brain-dead cannibals to explain such cruelty. You want a brutal, unrelenting story about children growing up in an 'apocalypse', just look at real kids in the Congo and Syria are going through right now.
It'll probably be 'too dark' for gamers, though. Ironic, innit?
if it wasn't thanks to Sarah clementine wouldn't have been able to clean her wound so in a way she saved clem. yeah she was a bit useless after that but if someone saved your life you would be forever grateful.
You can be my advisor.