Is Kenny really at fault? Did he really become a monster in Season 2?
I'm gonna keep this relatively brief and to the point, mainly because I don't feel like typing out a long thread at this time. I'll probably come back and add a little more later, so be sure to check back in for further updates.
Anyway, most people seem to think that Kenny became a monster in Season 2.
However, I wish to point out that Kenny lost his wife and child all in one day, so that right there will fuck anyone up.
In one afternoon, Kenny lost his entire purpose in life, which is why after finding a boat he became obsessed with the idea, because it gave him a sense of purpose, which is something that everyone needs in order to be "fulfilled".
In between Season 1 and Season 2, as far as he knew, Kenny had lost everyone and was quite literally all alone in the world.
That is until the arrival of Sarita, and then later Clementine, which might have been both a blessing and a curse, as her presence would remind him of better times, but on the flipside would also remind him of the horror he experienced in Season 1.
And then after she (Sarita), was killed, Kenny once again lost his sense of purpose, aside from Clementine and then later Aj.
And for remainder of the game Kenny is in a deep state of grief, as he was in Season 1. And how a person deals with grief depends on a couple of things - most notably their unique genetic makeup, and the environment they were raised in.
And to hear how Kenny described his Dad as a "mean son of a bitch", sounds like his dad was possibly abusive.
Now I believe that people should be responsible, and held accountable for their actions. But it's foolish to say that severe trauma doesn't have a severe effect on their actions and how they respond to trials and tribulations.
Wiki expressed Kenny's predicament this way: "Kenny is generally characterised by needing a sense of purpose or more specifically, protecting people, which Lee noticed in "Around Every Corner". Protecting Katjaa and Duck was a purpose of his and after they died, that purpose was robbed of him and he sunk into a deep depression. Getting to Savannah to find a boat helped steady him because he had a chance to get his friends to safety and, after learning it was hopeless, drowned his sorrow in whisky. Kenny's spirit was again revived when Lee and Clementine found a boat and the mission of saving Clementine from the Stranger kept him fired up. After Savannah Kenny had seemingly given up, becoming emaciated and letting his beard overgrow due to being alone with no goals but meeting Sarita encouraged him to pull himself together once more. After Sarita died, Kenny again lost his purpose in life but regained it again with AJ's birth. The thought of losing AJ, which apparently robbed him of purpose yet again, caused him to flip out beyond words but he calmed down once more with the discovery of AJ's safety. The fact that Kenny was willing to be on his own, with nobody to protect, so that Clementine and AJ could be safe in Wellington, demonstrated a severe sense of selflessness."
So with everything said, is Kenny really a monster?
Is he really completely responsible for his often times ill advised actions?
What do you think?
Comments
Most of what you talked about was season 1 but anyway i'll address your one point
Yes people agree Kenny went through real trauma and thats horrible, and no his actions make sense. But the point is EVERY character went through that, or even worse. Bens rant in episode 5 shows that. Just because we see Kenny go through it doesnt make it special or give him special regard to do whatever he wants.
I mean just people in the last episode
Kenny lost his wife, child and girlfriend
Clementine lost her parents, and surrogate parent
Jane lost her sister and presumably the rest of her family too
Luke lost his whole family and now his group over the last few days
Bonnie lost her family, her first group, her new group and recently her home
Mike lost presumably anyone he cares about given he is alone
Arvo lost his group and his sister
At this point theres been many a Thread on season 2 Kenny, been heavily debated.
But for me anyway its just personal opinion how you see him. I finished my first playthrough with him, mainly as I still trusted Kenny and didn't trust Jane tbh
@Kenny/Lee. I'll answer with a question. Have you read Of Mice and Men? If you have then this will make sense. If not Spoilers for Of Mice and Men here you've been warned! Kenny in season two reminds me of Lenny in the novel. Unlike Lenny however,Kenny had choices to make. However both display the alarming inability to control ones anger! Lenny is described as a "Simpleton" in the novel. But by every definition today would be "Differently Abled". At one point early in the story Lenny wants to pet a kitten,but in the process ,kills it. I can't speak for everone but i feel that I could easily see Duck as Lenny from the novel! Now I know Kenny "seems" more normal. But you can't see mental problems in everyone who has them. If I'm right about this then the answer is no he's no monster. He's something far more frightening to me, a victim! You see I'm not sure he even knew he was mentaly challenged! And in a normal world I think the worst thing he'd of done is "Punch an asshole" for "Creepin" around his wife. But under the ZA he was doomed to break.
No Kenny isn't a monster
He IS a monster, the way he kills Carver and Jane says it all
No, the way he leaves Clem and AJ at Wellington in a place of safety while he possibly doomed himself, just to ensure their survival, says it all.
That never happened, Clem killed him after he killed Jane
That all depends on how you played the game!
kenny's an asshole, but not a villain type asshole.
The moment where I really , really did not like Kenny was in that abandoned gas station. Jane sheathed her knife , but he still attacked her anyway.
Kenny's Clem's man, Clem's best friend, Clem's father figure (IN MY PLAYTHROUGH). I can't blame Kenny for becoming the man he became after Katjaa's and Duck's death. He became quite sad, and I can't blame him for that. He's the most developed character (and changed), for me in a good way. He lost his girlfriend and lost all hope. Then Rebecca got A.J. and he regained hope once again. He loves kids, and he now how to raise 'em. He risked his life just to get Clem and A.J. to Wellington. He ran up the hill to see if there was any danger. He's a kind man, if you really gives him a chance, which many doesn't.
Apart from that, he has the best quotes.
No in my play through, My Clem and Aj is with Kenny and I got a Good ending because of that.
Probably mostly not his fault if he suffered brain damage in episode 3. He's likely always had a pretty short temper since before Lee met him.
I don't think his character changed enough for us to say hew suffered brain damage.
As firewallcano said. Everyone has experienced trauma. What defines you is how you deal with it.
Regardless of whether someone has suffered trauma, they are still responsible for their actions, they are still at fault if those actions are bad.
I dont think hes a monster, nothing he does suggests that. Hes way too aggressive and over emotional but thats all, hes not an evil character. A bad one maybe but not monstrous
All the endings are fine
There are numerous things I mentioned in another thread that he does after episode 3 that i don't think he would have done previously done. Even after losing his wife and son.
He is not a monster, he was only trying to help, its no his fault, he lost katjaa, duck and sarita
"I'm gonna keep this relatively brief and to the point"
Proceeds to type a few paragraphs, lol. Sorry man i couldn't help but chuckle at that.
I was coming in here to post my two cents, but you pretty much summed it up. Kenny's broken, but sees Clem and AJ as a possible family. Not to replace Duck and Katjaa, but to keep him going. The thought of losing AJ pushed him over the edge. Maybe his actions were a bit irrational, but I certainly trusted Kenny a hell of a lot more than Jane.
Plus, Kenny would never knowingly put Clem or AJ in danger. The worst he ever did was yell at Clem, then felt like an ass about it and later apologized. That's even why he wanted to leave Clem and AJ at Wellington, even if it meant he'd be all alone once again. He wanted Clem and AJ to be safe and have a normal childhood. He never said it in the game, but you could tell he definitely loved Clem and AJ like they were his own children.
Well, some would say we all have a monster inside of us.
Though, I don't think Kenny is a bad guy but he is a guy that can't deal with things. I get that Kenny lost everything but so did everyone around him. Hell, Clem is a little girl who lost her parents, lee, TWO WHOLE GROUPS OF FRIENDS, and had to experience things that no kid should have to. The fact that she is still able to rationalize and not lose her mind is a fucking miracle.
I get that Kenny been through some shit but he has been a asshole well before he lost his family. If you aren't on his side then he doesn't really care that much if you might die. Hell, if you choose to try and save Larry he literally just watches Lee several times where he can die. Kenny doesn't help him and then acts like a asshole afterwards. This shit happened well before he lost his wife and kid.
So you can't tell me that Kenny just isn't a LITTLE fucked up.
Is Kenny at fault? No. The writers are.
If Kenny is a monster for what he did to Carver, then Clementine (and the player) who shot Kenny in the head are also monsters. Hate to break it to you but killing, is killing. At that point in time Kenny was unarmed, and in no way a threat to Clementine. If you shot him, you're just like him.
Kennyftw, I agree with that.
Plus, to answer the question, mostly yes. His rash actions did cause repercussions.
And becoming a monster, no...but he came close. But that's just me.
And don't judge me, killing Kenny in Season 2 was a hard thing for me. I admit throughout the first season, I tried to not make waves but when push came to shove when stopping the train in Long Road Ahead, I knew I had Lee knock some sense into that thick skull of his. Hell, at the first major choice of Around Every Corner, I helped him out by allowing him to kill the kid lurker in the attic. I could've done it myself, no question, but with what Kenny had been through, I wanted to help him out. That's what friends do.
At the end of the second season, I continued to be reasonable with him, but his irrationality was making it useless.
I liked him, just not as much as most people. Forgive me. Sorry, just needed to get that out in the open.
Kenny: The best character of all time.
He always sided with Lee no matter how bad the circumstances were. I didn't help kill Larry and in episode 3 he stood by my side watching me QTE my ass off while walkers pinned me down under a door.
He cares about everyone in his group. When bandits attacked the motel, Lily sneaked out, got on the balcony, and saved the whole group from the raid. And Kenny expressed his affection: "Screw her. Let her stay." when the group was escaping.
He deeply loves and cares for Clementine in his heart. He proved it by not coming with me to look for Clementine because I wasn't there for him when he wanted to smash the head of a girl's father (the only person she had left), when he wanted me to drop a kid to death just because he INDIRECTLY caused his family's death.
Of course it was Ben's fault. If only he hadn't made that deal with the bandits, they wouldn't had bothered coming to the motor inn and the group probably would'd got eaten by the walkers that were on their way sneaking up on the motor inn (Obviously, when walkers arrived, it became BANDITS VS WALKERS which gave the group a chance to escape).
It is also Ben's fault that Katjaa couldn't shoot her own son (after she volunteered herself to do it in the first place) and she commited a suicide.
Kenny is not a bad guy. Its just that he lost so much. He lost Duck, Katjaa and Sarita. Thats why he is like that. People think he is crazy but he is not. They can't understand the trauma he went through. How can
Lee (who lost his parents and had to kill his walker brother)
Clem (who lost her parents and her second father figure at the age of 9)
Luke (who lost his family AND almost all of his friends)
Bonnie (who lost her parents, her old group and her new group)
Jane (who lost her parents and was forced to leave her younger sister to get eaten)
Lily (whose dad he killed in front of her)
and Ben (who has no clue about what happened to his parents and his little sister) understand what that man is going through? (Don't forget Arvo)
All this pain he went through was undeserved. People seem to forget how bravely he left a boy to get eaten (whose leg was stuck under a tractor).
In fact, he is the most sane person on the planet.
Scratch that, The most sane person in the Walking Dead universe.
I'm confused. If he deeply loved Clementine, why doesn't he help find her no matter what in No Time Left, instead of basing it on whether he likes Lee?
Also, for the last time (it shouldn't need to be repeated so much) many, many others have lost just as much as he did, and they haven't become abusive.
Like?
Hes being sarcastic
In my playthrough, Kenny was also my right-hand man.
Even though we didn't agree on everything, and in spite of that, Kenny still jumped to help Lee look for Clementine, even though I had Lee hide his bite.
As Lee, I chose Kenny as Clementine's next guardian.
And when the time came to either have Clementine stay in Wellington, or leave with Kenny, I had Clementine leave with Kenny.
Kenny is and will always be my favorite Walking Dead character after Lee and Clem. And when it comes down to it, I'm going to have his back, just like he's always had mine.
Episode 5 tried really hard to make Kenny a villain, and for most people it worked, but when he tried to sacrifice himself at Wellington, I knew I made the right decision.
TogetherTillWereDead
I'd say it was mostly Jane painting Kenny as the villain to make Clem leave or kill him to join Jane's side alone. In order for Jane to replace her lost sister that she left behind to die with Clem who appears to be much more capable and hardened. Yet most likely Jane would save herself before Clem if it came to that. Where as Kenny would most likely sacrifice himself so Clem could live as actually a number of folks have done. Quite a few have died in attempt to save Clem. Like Chuck, Lee, Ben, Omid, and Maybe Christa but not sure. I think i was the only player that agreed with Clementine when she utters to Luke that "people die because of me". She could have been on to something atleast part true.
"You've always been there for me, Lee. Always had my back when it mattered. What kind of friend would I be, if I wasn't there for you now? You and Clementine are the only family I got left. I'm with you 'till the end!" - Kenny to Lee at the end of "Around Every Corner".
"Lee , you know I care about Clem. And I am a Christian man ... but why should I have your back here when you haven't always had mine?"- ALSO Kenny to Lee at the end of "Around Every Corner".
I can understand how losing someone could change you to the extent it changes Kenny but whether that's ok - even if it's out of your control - is an entirely different thing, is the excuse of losing people a justifiable response to doing anything bad? You can keep excusing the bad things Kenny has done on his loss but that doesn't negate the fact that he's still done those bad things you're trying to make excuses for. Remember, everyone has lost people, and yes I know that loss has different effects on people but is loss a good enough justification for killing another individual, for treating other individuals badly etc.? That's the controversial part - Emotions are a huge part of this, do you blame Kenny for his emotions affecting him out of his control or do you forgive him for all the bad things he's done on the note that he, like others, has gone through bad experiences?
Also, there are more factors when it comes to how people deal with grief but I don't doubt that the way Kenny's father might have treated him(possibly badly) came off on Kenny and adjusted his personality to be somewhat more aggressive(although this is only speculation) but even in this scenario, Kenny would've played a role in whether he'd like to be like his dad or not but I'm not going to ignore the factor that some people might not be able to change their personality for different reasons out of their control.
Yes, I agree that was very selfless of Kenny to do, but are you going to forget when Kenny steals rations from the car when only him and Katjaa fully agreed to taking them in Episode 2 of Season 1? Or how about when Lee determinantly gets stuck under a door and Kenny offers no aid whatsoever because of a single previous decision? Or how about at the farm when you're about to get shot by Danny and Kenny provides no aid in the situation determinantly? Yes two of these are determinant situations but it shows how disagreeing with Kenny shows him expressing his selfish side. Kenny can definitely be selfless when he wants to but he's shown he can be selfish as well.
I don't think Kenny became a monster, he was just a human being in my eyes - not every human being is going to stay completely sane in a post-apocalyptic world, so people really shouldn't expect people to have a survivalist mentality.
In the end, it's really up to each individual to decide:
Would you blame Kenny for making bad decisions after he has continuously lost people he cared about and gone through depression possibly multiple times with every reason to be skeptical of those around him and making mistakes just like a human being?
Would you avert blame from Kenny for making bad decisions even if other people get hurt and have been in situations similar to him and in the end, those bad decisions were still made, the consequences are still there regardless of factors of reasoning?
What I'm curious to know from people is - if you forgive or blame Kenny for making his bad decisions based on his past experiences, would you do the same with other characters?
I mean you could say can you really blame anybody for their actions in the zombie apocalypse? That's what it all comes down to. Can we really blame the Terminus people for becoming cannibals? After all they were taken captive and raped and what not for weeks by crazy cannibals. They were good people with good intentions who let in the wrong people and it changed them. Really the walking dead is a story about evolution. About how humans evolve during the apocalypse. About what you have to do to survive. Most people alive at the end of Season Two of the game have had to do something horrible or have most likely seen some horrible shit. Everyone is potentially dangerous. I just feel as if Kenny is unable or unwilling to draw the line between a good and a bad person. Aaron points out that Daryl for example is able to tell the difference between a good person and a bad person. At this point in Season Two I don't think that Kenny is going to be able to trust anybody again. He is too far gone in my opinion. That's why I had to put him down, just like I had to put down the dog in the first episode. One has to wonder what would have happened if Jane never took the baby from us and we actually lost AJ to a bunch of walkers. How do you think Kenny would have reacted? Would he have been rational? Just have to think back to what happened when Sarita bit the dust. He lost it and became irrational almost instantly blaming us for what happened even though it was his idea in the first place to try and leave instantly and attract a herd. What Jane did was horrible and yes she most definitely provoked him. However she proved a point. If it were us, I honestly think Kenny would have reacted the exact same way and probably just lost it and attacked us. People can bring up Clem and Kenny's supposed great relationship but fuck they had hardly ANY interaction what so ever in Season One lol.
Kenny is the incarnation of Jesus Christ. How could be Jesus a monster?
If you haven't experienced real grief then it's hard to understand but i totally sympathise with Kenny because it does have a terrible effect on you as i have had 7 years of grief when my dad suffered with Alzhiemers, that is what true grief is. Obviously killing is extreme but in the walking dead its classed as normal. I know Kenny is horrible and an asshole at times but surely you realise deep down he doesn't mean it (maybe he does with Arvo because of what him and the Russians effectively did so I don't blame him) and when horrible to Clem he did apologise and i understand because its just his way of taking out his frustration. Im not saying its good but some people deal with it worse than others. I just feel some people need to see things from my point of view about him and i'm not saying you are implying this but people paint him as an evil psychotic villain but deep down he's not and i think you all know that. But he's deemed an asshole and not a nice guy which is different.
Dude come on if you were starving are you telling me you wouldn't take the food from the abandoned car? I'm not saying it's right doing what they did but im pretty damn certain in an apocalypse that we'd all do that because it is survival of the fittest. Maybe they could have took half of it so it wouldn't be as bad? I don't know. But again its determinant and Kenny shouldn't be painter as the one responsible for it in my opinion.
The other points about Lee not being saved by Kenny determinantly is just that as you said, determinantly. The thing is, if this was a one time game where we couldn't replay and change our choices, none of us would even know there are 2 sides to his character and the fact is there are effectively 2 Kenny's, one who is all for Lee and one who isn't, we all know this. So it really doesn't matter to me because in my playthrough he was great all the way through, except a couple of things he said or did I didn't agree with but never going to hate him for it like a lot of people do.
What I'm curious to know from people is - if you forgive or blame Kenny for making his bad decisions based on his past experiences, would you do the same with other characters?
Has anyone thought that say he perhaps suffered brain damage from Carver (maybe even before Carver or even brgore the apocalypse?) as some people suggest, if that was the case, if people truly understood mental health then they'd understand about someone who behaves in this manner and that they are hard to control but you wouldn't hate on them for something that is not entirely their fault would you? You wouldn't abandon a relative or friend you care about leaving them in a nursing home just because they are violent or horrible when he or she doesn't mean to be would you? Maybe some heartless people would but i would not. I would try to help them the best i can, to try and help them through it if i can because it's the right thing to do. I said this in another post but I want people to understand that I don't like or agree with "everything" Kenny ever did, i know he acted like an asshole several times and there were decisions he made that i didn't always agree with but I am extremely forgiving and always trusted the guy in my playthrough and that's how my Lee and Kenny were. And im sorry but i just cannot hate the guy like most (on these forums anyway) do. He's done bad things, but so has everyone. He's adapted to a world gone to shit in a way others around him haven't. I'm not saying it's right or a good thing but it is what it is. I guess im one of these people who will always have sympathy for him the way he lost his family all at once and what that does has an everlasting effect as i've also had a terrible yet different experience of loss before. Maybe it is also because i have an attachment to a season 1 character who's been around since the start, it's the same for me and the tv show with Rick, Daryl and Carol, you grow to love these characters.
Well there you go anyway. The usual people who read this don't have to like it but there it is.
Exactly
I wouldn't call him a monster, I would just say he was "too far gone".