Why do they have to be competing? The first three seasons and spinoffs sold about 50 million copies. Let’s just assume that they’ve sold a total of 500,000 copies. That’s $10 million they collected. If they don’t deliver on two episodes that’s $5 million that they’ve stolen from their customers. Do you really think that they’d owe These 250 employees even $2 million in severance? The customers are affected much less significantly, but many many many more were affected. Stop minimizing that.
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'm really tired of this situation. We are living between good and bad news during every single day. A fucking rollercoaster!
I'm guessing telltale didn't inform employees that losing their job was a possibility? That they were going bankrupt and whatnot? If they had said all this a few weeks before than I'd say 'coulda, shoulda, woulda looked for other work.' and the company shouldn't be sued. But it sounds like telltale gave no advance warning and just fired them on the spot, in which case I'm all for the employees getting a fair share of whatever's left.
It's annoying how divided people are on this. It's perfectly acceptable to both expect and demand that Telltale finish the product you paid money for AND pay the employees they clearly screwed over.
It's annoying how divided people are on this. It's perfectly acceptable to both expect and demand that Telltale finish the product you paid money for AND pay the employees they clearly screwed over.
I'm 26 years old myself and not a teenager and I'm furious about this myself. I PAID FOR A GAME THAT PROMISED ME AN ENTIRE SEASON IF I BOUGH… moreT THE SEASON PASS AND I ONLY GET HALF OF THE SEASON ALL BECAUSE OF A BUNCH OF CRY BABIES WANTING TO TAKE THE FANS DOWN WITH THEM JUST BECAUSE THEY WANNA SUE THE COMPANY WHO LAID THEM OFF? fuck them. Hope those employees lose.
Despite the snarky comment I made in a similar thread on the general chat, the plaintiffs deserve to win on this one. I'll take the piss out of a hack like Bruner, but the actual talent behind the games with a legitimate and sympathetic reason to sue, especially one that Telltale definitely should have foreseen?
In the fire you go Final Season~
(No but seriously let's hope The Final Season can still go out strong in spite of this)
I just post this before going to bed.
Yesterday Telltale said, even though they cant promise anything as of today, that they're trying to find a solution to bring us the last 2 episodes and that multiple partners have offered to help them.
The game is being updated constantly (https://steamdb.info/app/866800/history/), specifically episode 3 (last update was 1 hour ago).
They said they removed the game from various stores TEMPORARILY.
I'd suggest, before being overwhelmed by an insane amount of sadness and depression, to wait for more details and info before saying that we will never see any endings after this episode.
Good night everyone!
What's beyond me is how anyone could be against the employees, you do know THEY are the one that creates the game right ? It's management and the "leaders" that screwed up, not all the employees.
I hope it works out both ways. Staff do deserve severance pay and maybe slightly more for their work and long hours but as well as that I want to see The Final Season be complete. I love Clementine's story and the idea of not being able to see it through to the end is heartbreaking. I am praying that it works out for both parties and that both sides can get what they want
Stop making these theories give them time to think and such we already did the petition we don't need these theories floating around us making us feel sad.
If we assume that 10 million figure is correct that's 10 million minus the wages they had already been paying, minus the 30% cut for Steam/PSN etc, minus the 5% cut for the Unity Engine, minus the license fee and whatever cut Skybound takes... Plus there are probably other costs I don't know about like for composing soundtracks etc
Why do they have to be competing? The first three seasons and spinoffs sold about 50 million copies. Let’s just assume that they’ve sold a t… moreotal of 500,000 copies. That’s $10 million they collected. If they don’t deliver on two episodes that’s $5 million that they’ve stolen from their customers. Do you really think that they’d owe These 250 employees even $2 million in severance? The customers are affected much less significantly, but many many many more were affected. Stop minimizing that.
I’m not talking about their profit margin. I’m talking about money paid by their customers for potentially undelivered product. Of course most of that money has probably already been spent. They couldn’t even afford to pay their employees. That doesn’t change the fact that together we paid millions of dollars for the promise of four episodes and few people seem to think we have any right to point that out.
If we assume that 10 million figure is correct that's 10 million minus the wages they had already been paying, minus the 30% cut for Steam/P… moreSN etc, minus the 5% cut for the Unity Engine, minus the license fee and whatever cut Skybound takes... Plus there are probably other costs I don't know about like for composing soundtracks etc
Wow, the lack of empathy of people on this forum when it comes to people not being able to eat, to feed their children, feed their spouses..… more survive.. when they get no severance.. no money just left to hope everything works out..
to want a game to be published versus them being able to survive.. is just disgusting..
Well now I say they probably deserved it. The amount of pettiness is unbelievable, considering that being fired from telltale was the best t… morehing that ever happened to them... a company with barely any funds, guess how many AAA companies offered them easy jobs? With much more pay? Exactly. The one’s who are trying to ruin this for us don’t deserve your pity, because this was just uncalled for.
While I am a business student, I must admit that stuff such as the WARN Act, which is what the Telltale employees are suing in regards to since it appears Telltale may have violated aspects of the law, is not exactly my area of expertise. But, I'll try to see if I got things right here.
What the former employees are saying here is that Telltale management violated the WARN Act, which can require harsh financial penalties if found guilty, including back pay and benefits for each violated day in accordance with both the federal version and the state of California's version of the law (as Telltale is located in California).
Under the federal WARN (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification) Act of 1988, companies with more than 100 employees are required to provide 60 days of advance notice before mass layoffs (so that would mean Telltale might be financially obligated to pay both backpay and benefits for 250+ employees for 60 days, plus interest). Mass layoffs would be considered, under the law, a termination of 50 or more employees within a 30 day period, if the total comprises of at least 1/3rd of the companies workforce, which would apply to Telltale since they fired 90% of their workforce. The law was passed thanks to a veto-proof Democratic majority of both houses of Congress, without President Ronald Reagan's signature. In a very Democratic-heavy state like California, laws of this nature are much stricter and harder for companies to challenge.
However, under the federal version of the law, there are noticeable exceptions that can be found which may benefit Telltale in their case. The most notable is what's known as the "unforeseeable business circumstances" clause. For a company to use this as a defense, they must prove that the layoffs were caused by factors that were not reasonably foreseeable (reasonable being a key term here which is frequently used in law, but is often very subjective in nature). With the recent revelation that the planned investments with AMC, Lionsgate, and Smilegate did not come to fruition as was expected, this could potentially be used as a legal defense by the company. As the layoffs came as a result of these deals not being made, it ultimately prompted Telltale to start immediately laying off staff to save money. However, disputes may be raised as to whether this could be seen as "reasonably foreseeable" and can be argued as reckless behavior by Telltale's management (as I said, they put all of their eggs in one basket, which was not a very smart move, so they may have some culpability that puts this out of the realm of not being reasonable). In my opinion, if a contract between the parties was reached and one of the investing parties suddenly pulled out of the agreement and withdrew their financial investment, Telltale would probably have a much stronger case here. But since that didn't happen and Telltale sort of jumped the gun in assuming the deals were set in stone, this could work against them.
However, let's say their defense works, that still does not put Telltale out of danger, because the lawsuit, while filed in federal court, also cites California's version of the law. As mentioned, California's laws regarding this matter are much more strict and far more favorable to employees and workers. One such difference between the federal version and California's version: there is no "unforeseeable business circumstances" clause under California law. Meaning that, even in situations where there is an unforeseeable cause that prompted mass layoffs, the company may still be held culpable for their actions and be forced to pay their employees for the full 60 days. So in this regard, Telltale is pretty much screwed. Richard Hoeg, an attorney, even said: "The fact that California did not bring over the pertinent exemption would seem to put [Telltale] in a precarious compliance position with the state.”
TL;DR: Telltale is probably fucked legally, even with the revelation of investment deals going south because of California's stricter laws regarding mass layoffs.
I agree. People wanting a video game over families being able to put food on the table is disgusting.
Think like this! Do you love Telltale products? Do you love Walking dead? Do you love the final season?
Well guess who created that! The EMPLOYEES WHO ARE SUING TO GET WHAT THEY'RE OWED!!!
I hope the employees get their due rewards and I hope the season gets completed. But I'm sorry, if it's between a video game and human lives, then humans win.
Wow, the lack of empathy of people on this forum when it comes to people not being able to eat, to feed their children, feed their spouses..… more survive.. when they get no severance.. no money just left to hope everything works out..
to want a game to be published versus them being able to survive.. is just disgusting..
Whilst I do hope that those employees get some sort of compensation. I don't really think people should be shamed for wanting a finished product and closure for something they paid for and emotionally invested themselves in for six years.
I agree. People wanting a video game over families being able to put food on the table is disgusting.
Think like this! Do you love Tellta… morele products? Do you love Walking dead? Do you love the final season?
Well guess who created that! The EMPLOYEES WHO ARE SUING TO GET WHAT THEY'RE OWED!!!
I hope the employees get their due rewards and I hope the season gets completed. But I'm sorry, if it's between a video game and human lives, then humans win.
The employees should absolutely get their pay, it’s what they are owed, but this usually doesn’t happen instantly. It would take months to get it all sorted out. By that time, TFS would have been finished long ago.
Yeah, yesterday I was like "Okay, TFS is definitely screwed now" but then I did some research and usually those lawsuits have a lifespan of several months if not years before one of the sides win it. It doesn't necesarily mean that Telltale will finish up TFS, cause they might actually be busy with Netflix and now this lawsuits.
Unfortunately, we can theorize all day what's next but we just don't know. The only thing we know is that we have to wait for the next move from Telltale. What they will do, what they will say etc. Nothing is certain atm.
The employees should absolutely get their pay, it’s what they are owed, but this usually doesn’t happen instantly. It would take months to get it all sorted out. By that time, TFS would have been finished long ago.
Whilst I do hope that those employees get some sort of compensation. I don't really think people should be shamed for wanting a finished product and closure for something they paid for and emotionally invested themselves in for six years.
Let's get real here people , we want the game to be finished , it sucks for the staff fired and the lawsuits and all this mess about telltale closing , but at the end of the day a simple fan shouldn't have to deal with all this , this isn't our problem ,the fans deserve better!
They shouldn't be asked to crowd fund or sign petitions or donate or write emails trying to figure this mess out , just get the remaining eps out
Look I get it, I'm a fan too, and no we shouldn't have to deal with the fact that we paid for a game that may never come out, but in the grand scheme of things, we are the smaller victims in this story. Chances are we are gonna get ep 3 someday, but it's the employees that make the game, so we gotta support them, cause most of them have their life messed up right now.
The employee want the game to come out just as much as you, first of all cause they get paid, and second of all because for a majority of them, Twd is their baby.
Let's get real here people , we want the game to be finished , it sucks for the staff fired and the lawsuits and all this mess about telltal… moree closing , but at the end of the day a simple fan shouldn't have to deal with all this , this isn't our problem ,the fans deserve better!
They shouldn't be asked to crowd fund or sign petitions or donate or write emails trying to figure this mess out , just get the remaining eps out
"You are scum, and idc what happens to me for saying this, you are vile, way worse than I ever will be. Don’t talk to me again."
Personal attacks aren't necessary. Let's avoid these.
I understand the frustration, if you saw my comments yesterday you’d know that I was angrier than you, BUT chances are that the employees winning won’t affect anything, as it’s telltale they’re after, not the company that will take over, so chances are this changes nothing. We should hope the employees get their pay, because it’s still highly likely that we’ll get our episodes.
I'm 26 years old myself and not a teenager and I'm furious about this myself. I PAID FOR A GAME THAT PROMISED ME AN ENTIRE SEASON IF I BOUGH… moreT THE SEASON PASS AND I ONLY GET HALF OF THE SEASON ALL BECAUSE OF A BUNCH OF CRY BABIES WANTING TO TAKE THE FANS DOWN WITH THEM JUST BECAUSE THEY WANNA SUE THE COMPANY WHO LAID THEM OFF? fuck them. Hope those employees lose.
Despite the snarky comment I made in a similar thread on the general chat, the plaintiffs deserve to win on this one. I'll take the piss out… more of a hack like Bruner, but the actual talent behind the games with a legitimate and sympathetic reason to sue, especially one that Telltale definitely should have foreseen?
In the fire you go Final Season~
(No but seriously let's hope The Final Season can still go out strong in spite of this)
"Telltale confirmed in a comment to Polygon that season pass sales have been halted as the company discusses new development plans to finish out the series.
“Yes, we have removed season passes for The Walking Dead: The Final Season from stores for the time being,” a representative told Polygon. “We’re currently still working to find a way to hand off production of episodes 3 and 4 so that the season can be completed. The outcome of those efforts will determine when and how The Final Season returns to stores. We hope to have a firm announcement before the end of the week. For now, we apologize for any inconvenience.”
"Telltale confirmed in a comment to Polygon that season pass sales have been halted as the company discusses new development plans to finish… more out the series.
“Yes, we have removed season passes for The Walking Dead: The Final Season from stores for the time being,” a representative told Polygon. “We’re currently still working to find a way to hand off production of episodes 3 and 4 so that the season can be completed. The outcome of those efforts will determine when and how The Final Season returns to stores. We hope to have a firm announcement before the end of the week. For now, we apologize for any inconvenience.”
https://www.polygon.com/2018/9/25/17903996/telltale-the-walking-dead-final-season-sales-canceled
Twilight, I was hoping that would give away that I was (partly) trolling.
No true offense to you guys, I'd rather dance with the flames like a bonfire and hope they die down at the same time, think that's the best way to go about it.
With an attitude like this you are coming across like a whiny teen honestly.
Some of the attitudes on here are incredible, its actual people vs a videogame finishing seriously. I cant blame the staff for wanting some severance or something for being given the boot.
Im a bit bummed the game isnt going to get finished, im not worried about if im going to eat or be able to pay rent right now, there are degrees of problems and right now the fired staff outway our problems
I'm 26 years old myself and not a teenager and I'm furious about this myself. I PAID FOR A GAME THAT PROMISED ME AN ENTIRE SEASON IF I BOUGH… moreT THE SEASON PASS AND I ONLY GET HALF OF THE SEASON ALL BECAUSE OF A BUNCH OF CRY BABIES WANTING TO TAKE THE FANS DOWN WITH THEM JUST BECAUSE THEY WANNA SUE THE COMPANY WHO LAID THEM OFF? fuck them. Hope those employees lose.
They got laid off near the end of the month, presumably before their paycheck could come in. Telltale didn't provide them any severance and pays pretty low for an any area as expensive as the Bay Area.
Grow the fuck up! BooHoo a few middle class video game developers lost their job, so what?? The video game industry is ALWAYS hiring! Go find another job while you sip iced coffee in your California apartments and leave TWD alone
Comments
Why do they have to be competing? The first three seasons and spinoffs sold about 50 million copies. Let’s just assume that they’ve sold a total of 500,000 copies. That’s $10 million they collected. If they don’t deliver on two episodes that’s $5 million that they’ve stolen from their customers. Do you really think that they’d owe These 250 employees even $2 million in severance? The customers are affected much less significantly, but many many many more were affected. Stop minimizing that.
Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'm really tired of this situation. We are living between good and bad news during every single day. A fucking rollercoaster!
I'm guessing telltale didn't inform employees that losing their job was a possibility? That they were going bankrupt and whatnot? If they had said all this a few weeks before than I'd say 'coulda, shoulda, woulda looked for other work.' and the company shouldn't be sued. But it sounds like telltale gave no advance warning and just fired them on the spot, in which case I'm all for the employees getting a fair share of whatever's left.
It's all of those in-game either-or options where TTG forced us to take a side - it's become a habit for us now.
Probably new investors? or as I say a take over?
I completley agree! They should do as right by everyone as they can.
Slowly removing things as not to raise suspicions?
As far as i can tell, reviews aren't being removed. Steam is just taking a shit.
You're 26 years old ? Jesus
lol, that's correct! I just checked other games from other companies and guess what? 0 reviews.
Despite the snarky comment I made in a similar thread on the general chat, the plaintiffs deserve to win on this one. I'll take the piss out of a hack like Bruner, but the actual talent behind the games with a legitimate and sympathetic reason to sue, especially one that Telltale definitely should have foreseen?
In the fire you go Final Season~
(No but seriously let's hope The Final Season can still go out strong in spite of this)
No it seems massive Steam Glitch..other games are missing their reviews
I just post this before going to bed.
Yesterday Telltale said, even though they cant promise anything as of today, that they're trying to find a solution to bring us the last 2 episodes and that multiple partners have offered to help them.
The game is being updated constantly (https://steamdb.info/app/866800/history/), specifically episode 3 (last update was 1 hour ago).
They said they removed the game from various stores TEMPORARILY.
I'd suggest, before being overwhelmed by an insane amount of sadness and depression, to wait for more details and info before saying that we will never see any endings after this episode.
Good night everyone!
What's beyond me is how anyone could be against the employees, you do know THEY are the one that creates the game right ? It's management and the "leaders" that screwed up, not all the employees.
I hope it works out both ways. Staff do deserve severance pay and maybe slightly more for their work and long hours but as well as that I want to see The Final Season be complete. I love Clementine's story and the idea of not being able to see it through to the end is heartbreaking. I am praying that it works out for both parties and that both sides can get what they want
Dontnod is kinda busy doing their own thing.
Stop making these theories give them time to think and such we already did the petition we don't need these theories floating around us making us feel sad.
If we assume that 10 million figure is correct that's 10 million minus the wages they had already been paying, minus the 30% cut for Steam/PSN etc, minus the 5% cut for the Unity Engine, minus the license fee and whatever cut Skybound takes... Plus there are probably other costs I don't know about like for composing soundtracks etc
I’m not talking about their profit margin. I’m talking about money paid by their customers for potentially undelivered product. Of course most of that money has probably already been spent. They couldn’t even afford to pay their employees. That doesn’t change the fact that together we paid millions of dollars for the promise of four episodes and few people seem to think we have any right to point that out.
The needs of the many outway the needs of the few. The fans come first.
Exactly
While I am a business student, I must admit that stuff such as the WARN Act, which is what the Telltale employees are suing in regards to since it appears Telltale may have violated aspects of the law, is not exactly my area of expertise. But, I'll try to see if I got things right here.
What the former employees are saying here is that Telltale management violated the WARN Act, which can require harsh financial penalties if found guilty, including back pay and benefits for each violated day in accordance with both the federal version and the state of California's version of the law (as Telltale is located in California).
Under the federal WARN (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification) Act of 1988, companies with more than 100 employees are required to provide 60 days of advance notice before mass layoffs (so that would mean Telltale might be financially obligated to pay both backpay and benefits for 250+ employees for 60 days, plus interest). Mass layoffs would be considered, under the law, a termination of 50 or more employees within a 30 day period, if the total comprises of at least 1/3rd of the companies workforce, which would apply to Telltale since they fired 90% of their workforce. The law was passed thanks to a veto-proof Democratic majority of both houses of Congress, without President Ronald Reagan's signature. In a very Democratic-heavy state like California, laws of this nature are much stricter and harder for companies to challenge.
However, under the federal version of the law, there are noticeable exceptions that can be found which may benefit Telltale in their case. The most notable is what's known as the "unforeseeable business circumstances" clause. For a company to use this as a defense, they must prove that the layoffs were caused by factors that were not reasonably foreseeable (reasonable being a key term here which is frequently used in law, but is often very subjective in nature). With the recent revelation that the planned investments with AMC, Lionsgate, and Smilegate did not come to fruition as was expected, this could potentially be used as a legal defense by the company. As the layoffs came as a result of these deals not being made, it ultimately prompted Telltale to start immediately laying off staff to save money. However, disputes may be raised as to whether this could be seen as "reasonably foreseeable" and can be argued as reckless behavior by Telltale's management (as I said, they put all of their eggs in one basket, which was not a very smart move, so they may have some culpability that puts this out of the realm of not being reasonable). In my opinion, if a contract between the parties was reached and one of the investing parties suddenly pulled out of the agreement and withdrew their financial investment, Telltale would probably have a much stronger case here. But since that didn't happen and Telltale sort of jumped the gun in assuming the deals were set in stone, this could work against them.
However, let's say their defense works, that still does not put Telltale out of danger, because the lawsuit, while filed in federal court, also cites California's version of the law. As mentioned, California's laws regarding this matter are much more strict and far more favorable to employees and workers. One such difference between the federal version and California's version: there is no "unforeseeable business circumstances" clause under California law. Meaning that, even in situations where there is an unforeseeable cause that prompted mass layoffs, the company may still be held culpable for their actions and be forced to pay their employees for the full 60 days. So in this regard, Telltale is pretty much screwed. Richard Hoeg, an attorney, even said: "The fact that California did not bring over the pertinent exemption would seem to put [Telltale] in a precarious compliance position with the state.”
TL;DR: Telltale is probably fucked legally, even with the revelation of investment deals going south because of California's stricter laws regarding mass layoffs.
I agree. People wanting a video game over families being able to put food on the table is disgusting.
Think like this! Do you love Telltale products? Do you love Walking dead? Do you love the final season?
Well guess who created that! The EMPLOYEES WHO ARE SUING TO GET WHAT THEY'RE OWED!!!
I hope the employees get their due rewards and I hope the season gets completed. But I'm sorry, if it's between a video game and human lives, then humans win.
How torn I am.
Whilst I do hope that those employees get some sort of compensation. I don't really think people should be shamed for wanting a finished product and closure for something they paid for and emotionally invested themselves in for six years.
The employees should absolutely get their pay, it’s what they are owed, but this usually doesn’t happen instantly. It would take months to get it all sorted out. By that time, TFS would have been finished long ago.
Yeah, yesterday I was like "Okay, TFS is definitely screwed now" but then I did some research and usually those lawsuits have a lifespan of several months if not years before one of the sides win it. It doesn't necesarily mean that Telltale will finish up TFS, cause they might actually be busy with Netflix and now this lawsuits.
Unfortunately, we can theorize all day what's next but we just don't know. The only thing we know is that we have to wait for the next move from Telltale. What they will do, what they will say etc. Nothing is certain atm.
If they wanted versus people eating or children starving..they should..yes..all day every day..
Let's get real here people , we want the game to be finished , it sucks for the staff fired and the lawsuits and all this mess about telltale closing , but at the end of the day a simple fan shouldn't have to deal with all this , this isn't our problem ,the fans deserve better!
They shouldn't be asked to crowd fund or sign petitions or donate or write emails trying to figure this mess out , just get the remaining eps out
Look I get it, I'm a fan too, and no we shouldn't have to deal with the fact that we paid for a game that may never come out, but in the grand scheme of things, we are the smaller victims in this story. Chances are we are gonna get ep 3 someday, but it's the employees that make the game, so we gotta support them, cause most of them have their life messed up right now.
The employee want the game to come out just as much as you, first of all cause they get paid, and second of all because for a majority of them, Twd is their baby.
Sorry. Wasn’t having a good day is all. I’ll try not to do it again... try
I understand the frustration, if you saw my comments yesterday you’d know that I was angrier than you, BUT chances are that the employees winning won’t affect anything, as it’s telltale they’re after, not the company that will take over, so chances are this changes nothing. We should hope the employees get their pay, because it’s still highly likely that we’ll get our episodes.
Do you know what the unedited gif is from?
"Telltale confirmed in a comment to Polygon that season pass sales have been halted as the company discusses new development plans to finish out the series.
“Yes, we have removed season passes for The Walking Dead: The Final Season from stores for the time being,” a representative told Polygon. “We’re currently still working to find a way to hand off production of episodes 3 and 4 so that the season can be completed. The outcome of those efforts will determine when and how The Final Season returns to stores. We hope to have a firm announcement before the end of the week. For now, we apologize for any inconvenience.”
https://www.polygon.com/2018/9/25/17903996/telltale-the-walking-dead-final-season-sales-canceled
End of the week huh. Well guys, prepare yourselves, for we are going to get either very good news, or our hearts will be completely shattered.
Although, the way it sounds, it seems as if a deal is reached, that it will continue in game form, so there's that.
Twilight, I was hoping that would give away that I was (partly) trolling.
No true offense to you guys, I'd rather dance with the flames like a bonfire and hope they die down at the same time, think that's the best way to go about it.
With an attitude like this you are coming across like a whiny teen honestly.
Some of the attitudes on here are incredible, its actual people vs a videogame finishing seriously. I cant blame the staff for wanting some severance or something for being given the boot.
Im a bit bummed the game isnt going to get finished, im not worried about if im going to eat or be able to pay rent right now, there are degrees of problems and right now the fired staff outway our problems
People are once more forgetting that they got paid their month's worth on the way out (not severence though) but I 100% agree with you.
Hardest telltale choice of all time
Grow the fuck up! BooHoo a few middle class video game developers lost their job, so what?? The video game industry is ALWAYS hiring! Go find another job while you sip iced coffee in your California apartments and leave TWD alone