Sam & Max The Devil's Playhouse: The Tomb of Sammun-Mak Discussion!

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  • edited May 2010
    So will episode 2 even be out at all this month for the ipad, or is there any info at all about it.
  • edited May 2010
    Jwalkjr326 wrote: »
    So will episode 2 even be out at all this month for the ipad, or is there any info at all about it.

    Yeah, I realize you may not have an exact date, but a ballpark figure would be nice. Or at least a promise to announce it somewhere other than here. I keep accidentally reading spoilers while checking for updated iPad info. If I knew an announcement was going to be on the blog page, then I could stop wading in the spoiler swamp.
  • JenniferJennifer Moderator
    edited May 2010
    I liked the episode. I think it's one of the strongest episodes yet (although not quite as good as Chariots of the Dogs or What's New Beelzebub?) The way the season's going, this very well could end up being the best season of Sam & Max yet.

    Here's my review.
  • edited May 2010
    Finished it. Which is annoying (not anyone's fault but mine. We were trying to take our time finishing it and ended up caught up in it).

    I loved the episode. I still enjoy playing together, as it's very entertaining, it makes the jokes funnier and we don't get stuck. I have to say that even though we re-put the hints at zero (I'm glad I checked, since the other games keep that from one episode to the next) there were hints here and there, although it was always stuff we had already figured out it was a bit annoying. Examples off the top of my head:
    "If only we could put words in her mouth", "you won't be as lucky next time"
    although that last one provided me with one of the biggest laughs of the game, I'll explain in the next part.

    We kept thinking of different things. For instance,
    I tried the bust in both holes and noticed we needed both at once. Also, the bust was two different colours. I said "what, do they expect us to cut it in half?" Ian exclaimed "the scimitar!" so we went there and I threw in the bust about three times and then I said "okay, we need the grandfather to curse us, it's not random, it's never gonna hit us" but Ian insisted that I kept trying until it worked. So I said "look, I'm going to walk through it and you'll see I won't get killed", I walked through it and the mole father said something along the lines of "you're too lucky" twice in a row. I looked at Ian, he looked at me. Then he went "okay, okay, we need the grandfather to curse us". One of the best laughs of the game.
    We kept having differing ideas so it was a bit hectic at times, especially when it turned out we were both right, but since we had chosen to do what one of us suggested first, we had kinda forgotten about the other thing.

    Oh, and yesterday, after we started playing the game, we went to a picnic. Among the food was cucumber and tomato salad.
    I saw him cut the cucumber. Lengthwise. I thought it was weird. Then we played the game. That running joke became the funniest thing in the whole episode.

    I thought the end was pretty obvious,
    when Sam said he'd be away I was pretty sure Max's brain would be stolen there and then
    . Although to be fair I can't say I had guessed the specifics.

    I was so sad in the end
    when Sameth and Maximus died
    even though I knew it was coming all along.

    Loved
    Jurgen
    . I didn't care for him in season two but I loved him here. I did feel terrible for him though. Thought
    baby Amelia
    was the most annoying character to date.

    I loved the storytelling. In a way it made you think about things similarly to Future Vision in episode 1.

    Mmh, that's pretty much it I think. Really enjoyed the episode. You guys are wonderful.
    Oh, when Ian was steering he kept walking/running into things :p He can't get the hang of click and drag at all. I told him it's worse in ToMI, I think he almost cried. I probably shouldn't find that funny.
  • edited May 2010
    Note: while I understand people not liking Santa and the elves returning, I do think they were used well. Santa in his pre-Claus years, as a capitalist? Looking like the Monopoly guy? Called Nicholas St. Kringle? That's all a pretty good joke.

    The Elves living in Little Arctic Circle is also a pretty good joke.

    That having been said, I wish there were more fully fleshed out characters instead of one guy wearing several skins. Santa was used in a very funny way, but it was never essential for him to be there, the way it was essential for Murray to return in Leviathan (where else can you get a talking skull?). He made a cameo and they ran with the gag, but I'm not sure if I'd like to see much more of that. New characters, guys. Give them backstories and flesh them out. It's much more memorable and makes the games special.
  • edited May 2010
    Kroms wrote: »
    Santa was used in a very funny way, but it was never essential for him to be there, the way it was essential for Murray to return in Leviathan

    I disagree on both counts. It always seemed to me that Leviathan was built around making Murray return, with puzzles meant especially for him, etc. I doubt they did the whole thing and then went "oh, dear, where are we going to find a talking skull? I guess we'll have to add Murray".
    On the other hand, this whole season is revolving around toys. It would be weird for Santa not to even make an appearance.
  • edited May 2010
    All this recycling thing lowers the gaming experince for me and it drags me out of the game. I love to explore new locations, new characters and new riddles and i don't like these cameo things at all.

    I remember how reusing ther same 3d model for a cake once pulled me out of Beelzebub and here it is a lot more. Sad because it lowers the quality of the game noticeable. In my opinion it would be just perfect if Sam&Max would have a weird case to solve in Egypt but Egypt would be a more consistent place with new and/or also a few weird characters but who just fit into the story/scenario.

    Snow, elves, santa, .... sorry no fun for me there. The only character who made sense was Jurgen but also why him and not a new one instead?!
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited May 2010
    taumel wrote: »
    All this recycling thing lowers the gaming experince for me and it drags me out of the game. I love to explore new locations, new characters and new riddles and i don't like these cameo things at all.

    I remembe how using ther same 3d model for a cake pulled me out of Beelzebub and here it is a lot more. Sad because it lowers the quality of the game noticeable. In my opinin it would be just perfect if Sam&Max would have a weird case to solve in Egypt but Egypt would be a more consistent place with new or a lso a few weird characters but who just fit into the story/scenario.

    I see the point of critique - however, I did not feel the same way. More "new" characters would have been nice, but I thought of the recurring characters as more of an "actor ensemble" feel in this episode. It's less like re-using game models and more like re-using former actors. Apart from that, the actual episode had the least re-used locations EVER. I am thankful for this effort and really hope it continues!
  • edited May 2010
    Best episode yet, of the three seasons overall, I must say (only VERY slightly marred by a few typos in the subtitles). I am well pleased with where this season is going!
  • edited May 2010
    Well, I for one think it was done well. They didn't bring back just anyone, they brought people who could conceivably be there and still be alive (or undead) for Sam and Max to meet them (Jurgen, Amelia), and characters who fit with the theme (Santa with toys).

    Amelia was definitely a new model, and Jurgen was very different while still being Jurgen.

    Honestly, I can't say it bothered me. I got sick of Bosco and Sybil after two seasons of them being constantly there, but this is pretty different, it's characters who were there for one or two episodes only, and different versions of them at that.
  • edited May 2010
    @Vainamoinen
    I don't hink you can compare this because characters in films additional to the mask and clothing just aren't so different, alone from their proportions, like charatcers are in these games.

    You won't see an elve or a Jurgen playing in a movie a different role just with some different clothes on because the audience will instantly identify him as Jurgen and project all that on the new character he has to play, which then screws his new role/appearance, if this isn't done by intention and they play with these feelings.

    You might remember any discussions about how hard it is for certain actors playing a different role after they did something super successful?!

    This works to some degree for characters you really want to see, the stars, but honestly the elves don't even qualify as starlets. The Frankenstein character together with Jurgen beeing on a trip to Egypt for doing some mystical research on their own dark nature or just winning a trip in their weekly monster magazine, would have made a lot more sense to me.

    The elves felt a little bit like the new Poppers to me and dunno the psychonauts girl was a nice character but beside of the somehow superfulous reference just nothing i did enjoy in Egypt, sorry folks, i was hoping for something different there.

    But thumbs up for Sam's moustache. I wonder how he looks like with a hairnet.

    I think there is a difference between wildly mixing everything together and offering a consistent but still weird world to which you add madness. I prefer the second option. The first only works out if you're doing it really really well, for instance The Hitchhiker.
  • edited May 2010
    Avistew wrote:
    I disagree on both counts. It always seemed to me that Leviathan was built around making Murray return, with puzzles meant especially for him, etc. I doubt they did the whole thing and then went "oh, dear, where are we going to find a talking skull? I guess we'll have to add Murray".
    On the other hand, this whole season is revolving around toys. It would be weird for Santa not to even make an appearance.

    Obviously, the whole Santino thing was designed for Murray. Santa fits like that: the toys thing. He's being a bit of a capitalist/Indiana Jones villain but it's centred around toys, all of which fits his character while being genuinely funny. I'm just not sure if...I guess my main beef is that he never really was essential for a puzzle, but was only part of a gag. I mean, it's nice that they hinted that Santa had once been this ruthless businessman, that his current public image is just terrific PR, etc. He never really serves the story, though, apart from being a bit of a villain. He's never a puzzle solution, except once, and only an obstacle at one point.

    This is just splitting hairs, anyways, and probably falls down to design sensibilities. I'd have tried to make him more of a puzzle myself, but it doesn't detract from the game too much. It's probably as good a cameo as you're going to get.
  • edited May 2010
    Wapcaplet wrote: »
    The European PSN release is next Wednesday, May 26. This appears to be a decision by Sony and not Telltale.

    Fiddlesticks. :(

    So be it, my own damn fault for buying the inferior PSN version. :D
    When I've got a bit of money to spare, I guess I'll buy the PC version anyways,
    I want to add the season 3 dvd to my S&M collection in the future. :)
  • edited May 2010
    Have finished 2 reels so far and I'm loving this episode. My favourite so far from all! Great stuff!!
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2010
    Not sure what I can say beyond adding my voice to the general chorus of "I likey"!

    You guys did a brilliant job on this one - I was impressed. The film reel mechanism is a cool way to mix up the gameplay, and working out how the reels interplay was one of the best aspects of the game. I really liked the non-linear chronology.

    The classic old-style adventure story (in a similar vein to Indiana Jones) lent a great atmosphere. Exploring the exotic old-timey locations felt like a journey of discovery, and meant that I actually wanted to slow down and savour the experience rather than pushing the story as fast as it would go.

    I didn't mind the character re-use in the slightest, especially since we really haven't seen that much of Santa and Jurgen (contrast with how stale it would have felt if Bosco/Sybil/Abe returned). To me, seeing their backstories just adds extra depth to the Sam & Max world, and nothing felt forced - their presence made sense within the context of the episode.

    The ending left me in need of a hug. :(

    Good thing there's only another month or so before I can hunt down the fiend(s) who stole Max's brain and wreak my righteous revenge.
  • edited May 2010
    puzzlebox wrote: »
    The ending left me in need of a hug. :(

    *HUG*

    Yeah... I'm still crying inside...

    *More Hugs*
    puzzlebox wrote: »
    Good thing there's only another month or so before I can hunt down the fiend(s) who stole Max's brain and wreak my righteous revenge.

    REVENGE! (Preparing weapons of mass destruction and practicing Evil Laugh)
  • edited May 2010
    max gets 6 toys and gets bigger a lot bigger and hit them right in the kisser right to the moon
  • edited May 2010
    Okay, finally i'm through as well.

    Is it only me or did others as well sometimes had no idea of what to do and why they should do it? I had my problems getting into the game and solving the first riddle. Once i passed this, things rolled smooth. I liked everything involving the bust riddle This was a nice one, getting the moleman's chest open was a hard one for me. I sometimes had the impression that things were slightly too easy but then again i had times where i had no idea of what to do and solved things more accidently, like almost everything which included Jurgen, i solved this after there was nothing more to solve, btw very nice music (203?) after turned into a vampyre.

    I did enjoy the new psychic powers although they not always felt as strong as in episode 1 but maybe that's just because you got used to the concept, nice purple spiral animation when jumping out of the can. As i already wrote the puppet was great and it made me smile and even laugh for a few times, i wish i could have used it on more things.

    What i disliked was generally the reuseage of characters, more as they were more the annoying ones, except Jurgen (Jürgen!). Scene wise the snow area was completely out of place, superfluous and ugly. I definately missed a lot more scenes in Egypt, especially more open ones, i mean this country if full of mysteries and i found the tomb bad angled. So much unused potential.

    The idea with the four mini films an jumping forth and back in time was a good one. The ending were you had to play was nice although the music got on my nerves after some time. The real ending was great due to the open head, cute those triangles, i almost expected some falling down when Sam moved the head. Oh and the first interesting cliffhanger.

    I did enjoy it more than episode 1, it felt smoother and better done, but i honestly expected a bit more due to the theme. The playing time was just about right. Sam had a very smooth walking animation and i just moved him for a few times in order to watch the animation. The Dialogues were good.

    One thing i still miss is that the whole thing gets more dense or interesting in a way that i care more about it. I sometimes proceeded with the story more for the sake of proceeding instead of that i really care, same with quite some of the puzzles. Broken Sword 1 for instance made me playing because i wanted to know what's coming next.

    The german had some scribal errors and wasn't always spoken correctly. A term like Drecksluder was too harsh as Jurgen would never have said that. Luder would have been enough if he meant the girl, otherwise it was addressing the wrong sex.

    One quirk i found was that if you aren't connected to the internet, although the registration already happened, it takes quite some time until the app gives up and starts the game. The trying/waiting-time should be reduced, as it makes you more wanting to kill the process because you think something went wrong.

    Looking forward to NEW scenes and characters in episode 3.
  • edited May 2010
    Great episode! I think story-wise this is the most engrossing, can't-put-it-down one yet. On the bad side I wonder how much I've missed by being unusually eager to move the story ahead. At least some nice death scenes, from what I read.
    I don't mind any of the reuse myself. Jurgen was just perfect, the elfs and molemen were really good, and I seem to be the only one remembering that theatre. I did get the impression there wasn't as much good dialog; nobody to have hilarious conversations with at length, not even Maximus. Also, using ventriloquism just for the joke value was underwhelming; not nearly as funny as using Future Vision everywhere.

    I'll have to replay the episode before I decide if I think it's better than TPZ, but it's a good episode for sure.
  • edited May 2010
    The shorter dialogue made me think there was going to be a lot of it - aka a lot of "short conversation" - and I was right. Amelia Earhart didn't make you laugh, Harald?

    I personally thought it was as funny as "The Penal Zone".
  • edited May 2010
    Oh yeah. I'm glad that, although some character models were re-used, none of the locations were - and no characters from TPZ showed-up. I dunno if I mentioned how cool that was. Just in case, it's cool! Pretty cool.

    Edit: Trapped by Jake! I didn't double post. He he had a post there he deleted.
  • edited May 2010
    Kroms wrote: »
    The shorter dialogue made me think there was going to be a lot of it - aka a lot of "short conversation" - and I was right. Amelia Earhart didn't make you laugh, Harald?
    Not that much. Plus in the tomb I threw her into grandpa's arms before getting a chance to talk to her.
  • edited May 2010
    Harald B wrote: »
    Not that much. Plus in the tomb I threw her into grandpa's arms before getting a chance to talk to her.

    I'm pretty sure if you talk to her she just tells you to piss off. 90% of my conversations with her consisted of just that.
  • edited May 2010
    I'm kind of surprised people don't like her. Huh. That'll occupy my mind for the next few days.
  • edited May 2010
    one questions been on my mind for ages does past max's milk taste like real cow milk?
  • edited May 2010
    one questions been on my mind for ages does past max's milk taste like real cow milk?

    Who cares? Kringle fell for it and it serves no further use.
  • edited May 2010
    one questions been on my mind for ages does past max's milk taste like real cow milk?

    He's turned into a real cow so there is no reason why it shouldn't.
  • edited May 2010
    one questions been on my mind for ages does past max's milk taste like real cow milk?

    ...Rabbit's milk?

    Oh god, the implications.
  • edited May 2010
    but he's a boy and cows are girls but boy cows are bull so:confused:
  • edited May 2010
    kane wrote: »
    but he's a boy and cows are girls but boy cows are bull so:confused:

    Jumping on this before someone makes a joke about milking the penal zone.

    Oh snap. Wait.

    Anyways, it's a game about a talking dog and rabbit. Certain hairs shouldn't be split. Easy explanation: no matter what your sex, Bubbles' curse turns you into a female cow.
  • edited May 2010
    Kroms wrote: »
    I'm kind of surprised people don't like her. Huh. That'll occupy my mind for the next few days.

    I thought she was hilarious. I loved the sheer absurdity and randomness of the character. I mean, she's a fast-talking feminist baby version of Amelia Earhart; what's not to love about that? And
    forcing her to endure Grampa Mole's story about bunny rabbits
    was really hilarious.
  • aHartzellaHartzell Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2010
    By the way, that whole story was improvised on the spot by voice actor Roger Jackson. Cracked up everybody in the recording booth.
  • edited May 2010
    i also think it was less funny then the first episode,alot more dramatic. i felt like "the penal zone" was just perfect and loved the mind reading and futere vision powers. in this episode the powers played a much smaller role and only one of them (ventriloquizm) could be realy played with apart from the puzzles. but the plot was very firm and interesting and the voice acting was amazing, especialy the females character, nefretity and baby Amelia Earhart was done perfectly funny.
    one thing that bothers me a little is that the story in this episode does not seem to be connected occurings of the last episode. the whole episode was like a long flashback. like sam & max decided to take a break in the middle of the adventure and watch a movie. don't get me wrong, it was quite interesting and needed explanation but without any pressing effect on the modern sam and max it makes this whole story and the shocking discovery of the skeletons in boiler room, well, kind of a unnecessary side story.
  • edited May 2010
    good episode. I thought the humour was up there with the first. Due to my toilet humour, I cracked up alot when you use the dummy on Sam in the train.
    I think the biggest disappointment for me was the Protection Spell...
    I was hoping for a tricky brain teasing puzzle, ie Myst or the recent Machinarium. But all I did was pop in some blocks and it was solved? What confused me more was that I don't recall Sam finding out about the reversal spell until after I undid the protection spell.
    Also, slight bug towards the end with Baby Amelia...
    the unattract the opposite sex spell had already been removed once I got to the stage of finding the toybox in the train. Then it magically appeared again when defeating Amelia.
  • edited May 2010
    Marty wrote: »
    the unattract the opposite sex spell had already been removed once I got to the stage of finding the toybox in the train. Then it magically appeared again when defeating Amelia.

    I caught that scene, here's what happens during that stage.
    Due to fact that Bennie the Mole thinks his daughter is hitting on you, casts the Sexo Rexo Hex once more from behind the camera.
    It's quick, and almost unnoticable... For some reason I just wasn't paying attention to Sameth & Maximus during that scene.
  • edited May 2010
    I do believe that TT has broken the "Episode 2 is the weakest" chain for S&M.

    Surprisingly short compared to Ep. 1, but it was such a great concept that I didn't mind the brevity a bit. The "reel" gimmick opened up a whole new world of possible puzzles.

    One nitpick, and this is a matter of personal preference as opposed to a criticism: there were very few moments where the story made good use out of the "ancestor" angle. It was more like playing reskinned models of Sam & Max than actually playing different characters. I realize that that's the joke, but they were a little TOO similar, if that makes sense.

    On the opposite end of the spectrum, the cucumber gag had me rolling every time.

    EDIT: Almost forgot... HUGE missed opportunity: When "T-H-E-M" is spelled out, I was shocked (simply shocked!) that there wasn't a high-pitched scream in the distance. :p
  • edited May 2010
    Fan-freaking-tastic! I haven't played a point'n click adventure game that awesome since..since...well come to think of it since I played the curse of monkey island as a kid.(it was a monkey island game that much I remember)

    Still, utterly amazing! I found the flow of game-play to go so much smoother than it did in other sam and max games. There was never any point in time where I would get so stumped that I could spend upwards of an hour just trying to find the one little thing I missed. I was just compelled to keep playing.

    I mean it was just absolutely brilliant to have us jump back and forth between the film reels to find solutions. I'm really at a loss for words when it comes to how well this all flowed as a story. Just a top notch job you guys, I don't think too many dev teams could pull off the story arc I just got done experiencing. Yet there's still 3 more episodes to go! I just don't see how this one can be topped to be honest.

    This episode really has made me fall back in love with the series.
  • edited May 2010
    splash1 wrote: »
    For some reason I just wasn't paying attention to Sameth & Maximus during that scene.

    Wow, I must have drifted off there too :o
  • edited May 2010
    one questions been on my mind for ages does past max's milk taste like real cow milk?

    Yes, but it's acidic.
  • edited May 2010
    This "reel" system solved the problem of being stuck and getting really bored. If you do get stuck, you can go and try another reel, which I thought was a very good system. I got stuck a few times in The Penal Zone and I didn't want to continue, but this completely solved that.
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