The biggest problem with the W&G control scheme, for me, is that it destroys immersion and uses some obscure control combinations - shift, mousewheel, etc. - weird!
It's gone from a PC suitable interface - mouse for S&M - to a console-hacked compromise (probably to suit it to the Wii control stick).
But here's the real killer for me - it has a tendency to bugger up the animation. If you walk Gromit (or Wallace for that matter) into a wall in W&G, the walk cycle looks painfully computer generated and stilted - he goes from being a character who could genuinely exist in the world he's in, to a computer-driven pawn moving in a stilted fashion against a series of invisible barriers. Also, the jilted transitions that force movement in one of eight directions (as the PC doesn't have analogue control from WASD) only exacerbate the problem.
I don't see why, when the mouse control worked well in S&M, we seem to be going backwards here - affecting animation and immersion - just to cater for the console tards...
Ain't that a little childish? "I dun get mah cuukeh so yo are not mah parents any moah"
*grumbling* and kickin stones
Well take your time and think about it. You would miss some good games i guess.
It's not childish to let a developer know you're dissatisfied with their design.
And it's also very understandable - this is Monkey Island we're talking about!
Seriously? You're doing the WASD-thing again? Adventure game controls were more or less perfected around 1995 when Full Throttle came out. Why do we get less intuitive controls FOURTEEN years leater?
No it is not. That is why I am here too.
It is childish to say I don't get what I want so I am not buying anything from you ever again. That is just unreasonable.
No, it's not. A company starts using a design which kills the fun for someone, then that user is not childish to voice his opinion in the forums stating that he won't buy future games using this design.
Is it at all possible to implement both control types? I found that the Secret Files games (at least on the Wii) done a pretty good job of allowing the player to use either just the Wii remote or the Nunchuck and Remote combo.
Personally I would have though that this sort of arrangement makes everyone happy.
I understand the desire for first person controls - especially on a console; it arguably makes it more immersive and the control scheme is more conventional to modern gamers. That being said I think that the first person controls end up alienating many of the traditional adventure audience.
Admittedly I haven't tried out W&G yet - this is predominantly because of the systems they are currently on; I don't have an Xbox and W&G doesn't motivate me enough to use bootcamp. Monkey Island however is a different matter entirely and will happily buy both versions - but my finger did waver on the purchase button due to concern about controls. Monkey Island 4 I really only found playable on the PS2 (this is the only MI game I've only ever completed once - and not because I didn't enjoy it) and and I could never complete Grim Fandango or Broken Sword 3 simply because I couldn't get to grips with the controls. My loss, I realise.
We finally have a console that is so well tailored to classic point and click adventures, it seems a pity not to harness this. I'm all for first person controls for consoles that only have gamepads (Broken Sword on GBA worked pretty well), but those systems that are pointer based still feel far more intuitive to me. Having just spent the entire evening watching my girlfriend trying to jump onto a platform in Lego Indy (she managed to get to the idol in the first level after three hours then gave up and went to bed) I would honestly say that first person control isn't for everyone.
But hey, when all is said and done, controls are controls, the important thing is... WE HAVE A BRAND NEW MONKEY ISLAND GAME
People always fall back to the whole "but what about Grim Fandango? That was a great game" thing. Point and click is the way to go. I'd love to see a return to the way MI/MI2 did it. The golden years....
No it is not. That is why I am here too.
It is childish to say I don't get what I want so I am not buying anything from you ever again. That is just unreasonable.
Ok, so it's childish. And a way to tell them that I, at least, am extremely dissatisfied with this also unreasonable stubornness with the damned keyboard.
I'm not calling them names, or anything. Nor will I. It's their right to do games as they see fit.
No, it's not. A company starts using a design which kills the fun for someone, then that user is not childish to voice his opinion in the forums stating that he won't buy future games using this design.
Thank you for having enough intellect to understand something fairly simple.
And I do mean thank you. I really wish there were more people like you.
Edit: dammit, everytime I read this post, it strikes me as being sarcastic towards you. Let me assure you, I'm not.
People always fall back to the whole "but what about Grim Fandango? That was a great game" thing. Point and click is the way to go. I'd love to see a return to the way MI/MI2 did it. The golden years....
Grim Fandango was a fantastic game, but that was despite the controls, not because of them.
Well let me say this:
We have to listen to each other. I can totally understand your point of view and I do tolerate it. But I don't understand why nobody from Telltale is willing to talk to us about this issue in a way that is not defensive but open minded. I do want an objective explanation why the mouse control is not possible technically or k+m is superior to mouse only.
Well let me say this:
We have to listen to each other. I can totally understand your point of view and I do tolerate it. But I don't understand why nobody from Telltale is willing to talk to us about this issue in a way that is not defensive but open mided. I do want an objective explanation why the mouse control is not possible technically or k+m is superior to mouse only.
And EVERYBODY here tried AGAIN AND AGAIN to get someone from Telltale to talk to us about this subject in an open minded manner, but it was ALWAYS talked about defensively.
They even went so far as to tell us "Try it, you'll like it", over and over again.
Yeah, but that thread - though started as a feedback thread - was more a thread for the developers to defend the new control system. Criticism towards the controls wasn't really acknowledged, but more reacted to with counter-arguments...
Have you moved into PR Nick? Due to current market place realities a new control system must be implemented... :rolleyes:
Wow, that's really disappointing. Telltale's the most transparent and receptive to fan feedback of any company I've seen, much less worked at (hence the announcement of a series that is the most requested by fans since the company was founded). To see that get dismissed as PR-speak or refusing to listen is a shame.
Members of the team have taken the time to explain why we make the decisions we do, and they're dismissed as PR speak. Some have come into the forums to solicit feedback and to explain how and why certain approaches work better than others, and why some won't work within our constraints, and that's dismissed as "counter-arguments." We've said repeatedly we want our games to play well on as many platforms as we can handle, and that's dismissed as "going after the money." (PROTIP: If you're looking to make a fortune in game development, don't make adventure games. Only do it if it's a labor of love for a style of game you like playing and want to see move forward).
If the feedback is "just go back to point and click," then no, you're not going to get the answer you're looking for. It doesn't work well on consoles -- we've all played games that try to simulate a mouse on consoles, and they're all pretty much awful -- but that's not the only reason. As far as I'm concerned, after 8 episodes of Sam & Max (I started halfway through season 1), 5 episodes of Strong Bad, and Monkey 3, seeing something as simple as the hallway in Wallace & Gromit's house is a god-send. You don't have to look at the world from the side anymore, as if everything's on a stage. We can have rooms with 4 real walls. We can make more use of vertical space, and circular space, and let you go anywhere we want.
And most importantly: we can make games that really make use of the environment and make you feel as if you're in a place, instead of looking at a puzzle game. Is it going to be perfect right off the bat? Of course not, and that's why we're looking for feedback. But "go back to the way it's always been done" isn't the answer we're looking for; we're trying to move things forward.
We're obviously not going to implement every bit of feedback, because even if that weren't completely impossible, some of the feedback is counter to what we're trying to do. And when we can, we'll explain why we choose to do the things we do. The only criticism that's not welcome is accusing us of not listening, because that's demonstrably false.
Which I guess means it's going to be the Wallace & Gromit control scheme.
No, I figured it out, I think... It's going to be arrow keys and point and click for the PC, and for the Wii.. Nun-chuck and Pointer, that's what they mean by it.
Also, to reply to all the Wallace & Gromit game control critics, I think it's easier to use the arrow keys, it takes the relief off of using the mouse, sense I think a lot of people already know, I've been favoring using the arrow keys in Telltale adventures for a while now. Also, while I'm on the subject of character control, will Guybrush be able to run? Unlike Wallace?
Well yes do that. I am not quite there yet.
I am that optimistical guy that is trying to change the world...
i do have some hope left.
Soo Telltale mind to comment?
edit: uhm sry late to the party commeting later after i read
well ok
I am fine with the Wii controls. It is the best you came up with and that is fine.
But on the Pc there is imho a better way of doing it (pnc).
Imagine a crack in a wall that you can only crawl through. Well you do crawl through it but after that you are going to walk up straight again. No need to crawl anymore.
Same with controls. What works best on Wii does not necessarily work best on Pc.
Hey Chuck, I was only joking.. I'd be the first to say Telltale absolutely listens to the feedback on its games. That's one of the reasons why Sam & Max just got better and better as each episode was released..
If the feedback is "just go back to point and click," then no, you're not going to get the answer you're looking for. It doesn't work well on consoles -- we've all played games that try to simulate a mouse on consoles, and they're all pretty much awful
Did you play Broken Sword on the Wii? It works pretty well.
Also, I don't necessarily need point & click - the point is I want the game to be fully mouse driven. If that can be done in any other way, then that's fine, too.
Another good thing about mouse controls - people with disabilities can play them more easily.
I know a girl that was born with one hand... she loves adventure games.
And though I have both my hands, I have suffered neurological damage to my fingers, making it painful to use the keyboard for gaming for any extended period of time.
Wow, that's really disappointing. Telltale's the most transparent and receptive to fan feedback of any company I've seen, much less worked at (hence the announcement of a series that is the most requested by fans since the company was founded).
Yes, Chuck, the only reason you're doing Monkey Island is because someone in the forums requested it.
As far as I'm concerned, after 8 episodes of Sam & Max (I started halfway through season 1), 5 episodes of Strong Bad, and Monkey 3, seeing something as simple as the hallway in Wallace & Gromit's house is a god-send. You don't have to look at the world from the side anymore, as if everything's on a stage. We can have rooms with 4 real walls. We can make more use of vertical space, and circular space, and let you go anywhere we want.
We're obviously not going to implement every bit of feedback, because even if that weren't completely impossible, some of the feedback is counter to what we're trying to do.
Noone is so stupid as to expect any company, writer or hot-dog seller to implement every bit of feedback they get on their businesses.
Much of the feedback comes from 11 year olds and hardcore geeks, and if those were implemented, it would make the product just right for that person, and crappy for anyone else. The most blatant example is someone crying that, in The Lord of the Rings Online, it only takes 5 minutes to go from Bree to Weathertop, when it should take DAYS, like it says in the book.
Not the case with these controls which the majority has stated over and over again that they don't like.
Dammit! Can you guys not get that if we bother posting the same thing again and again is because we do like you and your products?
Can you guys not see that if this was any other company we simply wouldn't buy the games? Yet we still do! Even if we don't like the way they are played anymore.
But patience and loyalty wears thin, and you obviously feel this is the way to go.
Fine.
Just don't try turning the tables and tell us that we are the unreasonable ones here.
I think it needs to be said somewhere in this thread: You guys are doing amazing. Was Wallace & Gromit a little awkwardly controlled? Yes. For about the first three minutes. Then it became another outstanding adventure game that I'm glad I subscribed to. The truth, forum readers, is that this is not Halo. This is not Mario Kart. You don't lose a life or get to last place by taking that extra split second. These are puzzles that require brainpower, and yes occasionally I'll go to try something and realize I have to navigate Gromit further to the right, first. And it ruins the entire experience--no wait, I mean I just navigate him further to the right. I was hoping for point-and-click a little. But remember Grim Fandango? Imagine it, possible the greatest adventure game of all time, with a mouse. Ew. Where'd all the innovative puzzles go?
Human beings can train themselves to juggle, play the theremin, dance dance revolution, shuffle playing cards...but using arrow keys? On a computer game? You must be out of your minds! If this makes or breaks a $35 dollar investment for you, despite the increase in quality that is apparent, then just promise me you won't go into investment banking.
Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying the game I've been waiting 9 long years for.
And please sir NickTTG stop taking it so Personal. We love TTG and just want to make good games even better. It is true many of us are just "clingy complaining dipshits" but try to look in to our more valid points.
Believe me when I say, I don't take anything said about the controls personal. I had nothing to do with the implementation. But if you're picking up on any irritation, its probably to do with the fact that no matter how open and honest people from the company are being about how we're going about making our games, people on the forums continuously flame and act like we don't care about our "true" fans. We're making a Monkey Island game......... something people have been begging us for since this company was founded. You gotta cut us some slack here. Everyone at this company is an adventure gamer. We're trying to make a better experience for hardcore adventure game fans as well as someone who's just discovering the genre. Which is why we've been so open discussing the control systems. If people could try and be less stubborn and give us some real feedback, I think a lot more would get done to help. There's a good thread in the WG forums where someone hacked their own way to navigate. I know people in the company looked at it. Stomping your feet, plugging your ears, and screaming "But I don't wanna!", isn't helping us... and it certainly isn't helping you.
Sincerely,
Nick (a dude who takes none of this personally)
Well happycoincedence you are right. That is why I already preordered. I do trust TTG to make great games. And they certainly have but I do have a Opinion that I am willing to share and I do love to be proven wrong.
All I ask about is implemting pnc for pc because I think its the most natural and easy way to play. No word on that. All I heard is pnc doesn't work well on consoles. Fine with me.
edit: thank you NickTTG.
Well I am really trying to help. Honestly. I am trying to give real feedback. If you can help me to give you better feedback just tell me. I am happy to help.
And I can understand the frustration at your end. Maybe I should have stated earlier that I was jumping around the house out of happiness and immediately preordered. I really appreciate what you are doing.
oh and could somebody please look into my problem of not getting into the special forum despite having preordered (also no cupon received)
This is actually incorrect. All environments, with the exception of the town center, are full 360 degree locations. However, we let the story and puzzle design dictate how much of the environment to show in navigation.
For example, locations like the hallway, kitchen, living room, cellar, and occasionally the dining room are shown from most angles during the course of the series, and in a lot cases, within episodes.
Says you. I've worked on three of the episodes and I can definitely say there are four. Try walking around the dinning room. Don't worry, it's in the demo. You don't have to spend any precious dollars
Believe me when I say, I don't take anything said about the controls personal.
Good. Nor should any of you. I believe I can speak for everyone here - or at least, most people - when I write that noone is interested in getting personal.
This is actually incorrect. All environments, with the exception of the town center, are full 360 degree locations. However, we let the story and puzzle design dictate how much of the environment to show in navigation.
For example, locations like the hallway, kitchen, living room, cellar, and occasionally the dining room are shown from most angles during the course of the series, and in a lot cases, within episodes.
Ok, I'm sorry... SOME rooms in W&G don't have four walls.
Ah, alright. I was wrong and I admit it. You win this one.
Says you. I've worked on three of the episodes and I can definitely say there are four. Try walking around the dinning room. Don't worry, it's in the demo. You don't have to spend any precious dollars
Dammit! Can you guys not get that if we bother posting the same thing again and again is because we do like you and your products?
Can you guys not see that if this was any other company we simply wouldn't buy the games? Yet we still do! Even if we don't like the way they are played anymore.
But patience and loyalty wears thin, and you obviously feel this is the way to go.
Fine.
Just don't try turning the tables and tell us that we are the unreasonable ones here.
Not for anything, but this is such a silly argument. This isn't the early 90s, and the market isn't flooded with adventure games anymore, let alone GOOD adventure games, let alone Monkey Island. Even if you find the control scheme a little annoying (which it isn't after about 2 minutes of playing), the best you're doing is denying yourself playing a great game by saying "I'm not going to buy your games ever again if you don't make it the way I want!", and the worst you're doing is not supporting a company who is one of the few players putting out quality adventure games.
The fact is, you can put out more (and higher quality) games if you don't have to design, implement, and QA two different user interfaces. And a complete point and click solution does NOT work well on consoles, so the W&G interface, at least for now until a (possibly) better solution is found is the way to go.
Trying to make any argument like Telltale isn't listening to the players or any other such nonsense is silly, and it's doubly silly to say you're not going to buy the games anymore. I wouldn't hesitate to compare the transparency, loyalty, and spirit of Telltale to ANY other gaming company on the market - not for a second.
Me, my brother and my dad sat together and each had a quick go on Wallace and Gromit and i really wish you could've seen the trouble we went through to control the blasted thing. Simple actions of using a selected object on a selected thing was pain in the neck, and controlling Wallace was a nightmare. I'm sorry to be a downer but it was so awkward and it most certainly did not make brother take a interest since he is a console gamer. I'm not a hardcore point and click fan but the mouse works far better.
In my opinion, i've always seen Telltale as ambitious and talented when it comes to tackling changes. However... i can't help but see this as a step backwards.
A new control system makes sense for W&G seeing as it's not a famous point-and-click adventure game series, but really sounds like it'd feel wrong for Monkey Island. It certainly did in MI4 (though I know they're not the same).
I admit I'll play it either way, but I wonder if it'd be possible to at least allow for a mouse-only option on the PC? The keyboard could be used to rotate the camera if necessary.
Regarding "a complete point and click solution does NOT work well on consoles" -- works fine on the Wii, except for the clicking-high-makes-you-move-in-the-opposite-direction problem in Strong Bad.
the best you're doing is denying yourself playing a great game by saying "I'm not going to buy your games ever again if you don't make it the way I want!",
Denying myself playing a great game? Who said that?
this is pretty depressing really... i was all fired up that we had new monkey island and sam and max to look forward to. But now that i know they're going to have similar controls to grim fandango, monkey island 4 etc then i really cant see myself playing them. Dont get me wrong, you make brilliant games but all the point and click games i've played that dont have a mouse have made the games so awkward and unenjoyable to play that i usually end up giving up.
Hey Chuck, I was only joking.. I'd be the first to say Telltale absolutely listens to the feedback on its games. That's one of the reasons why Sam & Max just got better and better as each episode was released..
Ah, I see I mis-read your post. I never have understood smileys. Or sarcasm. Or calculus.
I didn't play Wallace and Grommit, I'm going to have to try the demo to see what the controls are like. If it's as horrible as MI4 was, I'm going to be sorely disappointed.
Actually, I don't see anything about this being planned for the Xbox or PS3... if not the "needed for console users" argument falls apart, since Strong Bad and Sam & Max work fine on the Wii. In theory it'd slightly expand the audience to the 5 people who don't own a nunchuck.
Comments
It seems Telltale is sticking with the keyboard.
It's their right, and in a way, I thank them.
Because it means less money coming out of my pocket.
Scalded as I was with Wallace & Gromit, I simply could not resist not buying Monkey Island.
But henceforthwirth, with the possible exception of any other Monkey Island series, nary a penny of mine shall go Telltale ever again.
Not that they'd mind, though.
Cheers!
It's gone from a PC suitable interface - mouse for S&M - to a console-hacked compromise (probably to suit it to the Wii control stick).
But here's the real killer for me - it has a tendency to bugger up the animation. If you walk Gromit (or Wallace for that matter) into a wall in W&G, the walk cycle looks painfully computer generated and stilted - he goes from being a character who could genuinely exist in the world he's in, to a computer-driven pawn moving in a stilted fashion against a series of invisible barriers. Also, the jilted transitions that force movement in one of eight directions (as the PC doesn't have analogue control from WASD) only exacerbate the problem.
I don't see why, when the mouse control worked well in S&M, we seem to be going backwards here - affecting animation and immersion - just to cater for the console tards...
*grumbling* and kickin stones
Well take your time and think about it. You would miss some good games i guess.
And it's also very understandable - this is Monkey Island we're talking about!
It is childish to say I don't get what I want so I am not buying anything from you ever again. That is just unreasonable.
Personally I would have though that this sort of arrangement makes everyone happy.
I understand the desire for first person controls - especially on a console; it arguably makes it more immersive and the control scheme is more conventional to modern gamers. That being said I think that the first person controls end up alienating many of the traditional adventure audience.
Admittedly I haven't tried out W&G yet - this is predominantly because of the systems they are currently on; I don't have an Xbox and W&G doesn't motivate me enough to use bootcamp. Monkey Island however is a different matter entirely and will happily buy both versions - but my finger did waver on the purchase button due to concern about controls. Monkey Island 4 I really only found playable on the PS2 (this is the only MI game I've only ever completed once - and not because I didn't enjoy it) and and I could never complete Grim Fandango or Broken Sword 3 simply because I couldn't get to grips with the controls. My loss, I realise.
We finally have a console that is so well tailored to classic point and click adventures, it seems a pity not to harness this. I'm all for first person controls for consoles that only have gamepads (Broken Sword on GBA worked pretty well), but those systems that are pointer based still feel far more intuitive to me. Having just spent the entire evening watching my girlfriend trying to jump onto a platform in Lego Indy (she managed to get to the idol in the first level after three hours then gave up and went to bed) I would honestly say that first person control isn't for everyone.
But hey, when all is said and done, controls are controls, the important thing is... WE HAVE A BRAND NEW MONKEY ISLAND GAME
I guess i don't have to repeat myself and let us get btt please.
Ok, so it's childish. And a way to tell them that I, at least, am extremely dissatisfied with this also unreasonable stubornness with the damned keyboard.
I'm not calling them names, or anything. Nor will I. It's their right to do games as they see fit.
Thank you for having enough intellect to understand something fairly simple.
And I do mean thank you. I really wish there were more people like you.
Edit: dammit, everytime I read this post, it strikes me as being sarcastic towards you. Let me assure you, I'm not.
Grim Fandango was a fantastic game, but that was despite the controls, not because of them.
I've always said that. People always misunderstood it, for some reason.
We have to listen to each other. I can totally understand your point of view and I do tolerate it. But I don't understand why nobody from Telltale is willing to talk to us about this issue in a way that is not defensive but open minded. I do want an objective explanation why the mouse control is not possible technically or k+m is superior to mouse only.
And EVERYBODY here tried AGAIN AND AGAIN to get someone from Telltale to talk to us about this subject in an open minded manner, but it was ALWAYS talked about defensively.
They even went so far as to tell us "Try it, you'll like it", over and over again.
WE TRIED! We didn't like it.
Noone gets the point. I stop spending money.
2+2=4, 2 and 2=22.
Members of the team have taken the time to explain why we make the decisions we do, and they're dismissed as PR speak. Some have come into the forums to solicit feedback and to explain how and why certain approaches work better than others, and why some won't work within our constraints, and that's dismissed as "counter-arguments." We've said repeatedly we want our games to play well on as many platforms as we can handle, and that's dismissed as "going after the money." (PROTIP: If you're looking to make a fortune in game development, don't make adventure games. Only do it if it's a labor of love for a style of game you like playing and want to see move forward).
If the feedback is "just go back to point and click," then no, you're not going to get the answer you're looking for. It doesn't work well on consoles -- we've all played games that try to simulate a mouse on consoles, and they're all pretty much awful -- but that's not the only reason. As far as I'm concerned, after 8 episodes of Sam & Max (I started halfway through season 1), 5 episodes of Strong Bad, and Monkey 3, seeing something as simple as the hallway in Wallace & Gromit's house is a god-send. You don't have to look at the world from the side anymore, as if everything's on a stage. We can have rooms with 4 real walls. We can make more use of vertical space, and circular space, and let you go anywhere we want.
And most importantly: we can make games that really make use of the environment and make you feel as if you're in a place, instead of looking at a puzzle game. Is it going to be perfect right off the bat? Of course not, and that's why we're looking for feedback. But "go back to the way it's always been done" isn't the answer we're looking for; we're trying to move things forward.
We're obviously not going to implement every bit of feedback, because even if that weren't completely impossible, some of the feedback is counter to what we're trying to do. And when we can, we'll explain why we choose to do the things we do. The only criticism that's not welcome is accusing us of not listening, because that's demonstrably false.
No, I figured it out, I think... It's going to be arrow keys and point and click for the PC, and for the Wii.. Nun-chuck and Pointer, that's what they mean by it.
Also, to reply to all the Wallace & Gromit game control critics, I think it's easier to use the arrow keys, it takes the relief off of using the mouse, sense I think a lot of people already know, I've been favoring using the arrow keys in Telltale adventures for a while now. Also, while I'm on the subject of character control, will Guybrush be able to run? Unlike Wallace?
I am that optimistical guy that is trying to change the world...
i do have some hope left.
Soo Telltale mind to comment?
edit: uhm sry late to the party commeting later after i read
well ok
I am fine with the Wii controls. It is the best you came up with and that is fine.
But on the Pc there is imho a better way of doing it (pnc).
Imagine a crack in a wall that you can only crawl through. Well you do crawl through it but after that you are going to walk up straight again. No need to crawl anymore.
Same with controls. What works best on Wii does not necessarily work best on Pc.
Also, I don't necessarily need point & click - the point is I want the game to be fully mouse driven. If that can be done in any other way, then that's fine, too.
Another good thing about mouse controls - people with disabilities can play them more easily.
I know a girl that was born with one hand... she loves adventure games.
And though I have both my hands, I have suffered neurological damage to my fingers, making it painful to use the keyboard for gaming for any extended period of time.
Yes, Chuck, the only reason you're doing Monkey Island is because someone in the forums requested it.
Rooms in Wallace& Gromit only have three walls.
Noone is so stupid as to expect any company, writer or hot-dog seller to implement every bit of feedback they get on their businesses.
Much of the feedback comes from 11 year olds and hardcore geeks, and if those were implemented, it would make the product just right for that person, and crappy for anyone else. The most blatant example is someone crying that, in The Lord of the Rings Online, it only takes 5 minutes to go from Bree to Weathertop, when it should take DAYS, like it says in the book.
Not the case with these controls which the majority has stated over and over again that they don't like.
Dammit! Can you guys not get that if we bother posting the same thing again and again is because we do like you and your products?
Can you guys not see that if this was any other company we simply wouldn't buy the games? Yet we still do! Even if we don't like the way they are played anymore.
But patience and loyalty wears thin, and you obviously feel this is the way to go.
Fine.
Just don't try turning the tables and tell us that we are the unreasonable ones here.
Human beings can train themselves to juggle, play the theremin, dance dance revolution, shuffle playing cards...but using arrow keys? On a computer game? You must be out of your minds! If this makes or breaks a $35 dollar investment for you, despite the increase in quality that is apparent, then just promise me you won't go into investment banking.
Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying the game I've been waiting 9 long years for.
Believe me when I say, I don't take anything said about the controls personal. I had nothing to do with the implementation. But if you're picking up on any irritation, its probably to do with the fact that no matter how open and honest people from the company are being about how we're going about making our games, people on the forums continuously flame and act like we don't care about our "true" fans. We're making a Monkey Island game......... something people have been begging us for since this company was founded. You gotta cut us some slack here. Everyone at this company is an adventure gamer. We're trying to make a better experience for hardcore adventure game fans as well as someone who's just discovering the genre. Which is why we've been so open discussing the control systems. If people could try and be less stubborn and give us some real feedback, I think a lot more would get done to help. There's a good thread in the WG forums where someone hacked their own way to navigate. I know people in the company looked at it. Stomping your feet, plugging your ears, and screaming "But I don't wanna!", isn't helping us... and it certainly isn't helping you.
Sincerely,
Nick (a dude who takes none of this personally)
All I ask about is implemting pnc for pc because I think its the most natural and easy way to play. No word on that. All I heard is pnc doesn't work well on consoles. Fine with me.
edit:
Well I am really trying to help. Honestly. I am trying to give real feedback. If you can help me to give you better feedback just tell me. I am happy to help.
And I can understand the frustration at your end. Maybe I should have stated earlier that I was jumping around the house out of happiness and immediately preordered. I really appreciate what you are doing.
oh and could somebody please look into my problem of not getting into the special forum despite having preordered (also no cupon received)
This is actually incorrect. All environments, with the exception of the town center, are full 360 degree locations. However, we let the story and puzzle design dictate how much of the environment to show in navigation.
For example, locations like the hallway, kitchen, living room, cellar, and occasionally the dining room are shown from most angles during the course of the series, and in a lot cases, within episodes.
Says you. I've worked on three of the episodes and I can definitely say there are four. Try walking around the dinning room. Don't worry, it's in the demo. You don't have to spend any precious dollars
Good. Nor should any of you. I believe I can speak for everyone here - or at least, most people - when I write that noone is interested in getting personal.
My thought exactly.
Alright, here's some feedback: with Keyboard I run into walls. With mouse I don't.
And I actually play games that use the keyboard, like MMORPGFSDTZYUBKSs, but that's an entirely different type of game.
And if someone who didn't write the game could do it, why do people who write the game can't?
Stomping your feet, plugging your ears, and screaming "But I don't wanna!", isn't helping us... and it certainly isn't helping you.
Ok, I'm sorry... SOME rooms in W&G don't have four walls.
Ah, alright. I was wrong and I admit it. You win this one.
Haha. I bought the game, you rascal!
No no, sir... only ONE environment does not have a back side! See if you can guess which.
Thanks for acknowledging, though.
Not for anything, but this is such a silly argument. This isn't the early 90s, and the market isn't flooded with adventure games anymore, let alone GOOD adventure games, let alone Monkey Island. Even if you find the control scheme a little annoying (which it isn't after about 2 minutes of playing), the best you're doing is denying yourself playing a great game by saying "I'm not going to buy your games ever again if you don't make it the way I want!", and the worst you're doing is not supporting a company who is one of the few players putting out quality adventure games.
The fact is, you can put out more (and higher quality) games if you don't have to design, implement, and QA two different user interfaces. And a complete point and click solution does NOT work well on consoles, so the W&G interface, at least for now until a (possibly) better solution is found is the way to go.
Trying to make any argument like Telltale isn't listening to the players or any other such nonsense is silly, and it's doubly silly to say you're not going to buy the games anymore. I wouldn't hesitate to compare the transparency, loyalty, and spirit of Telltale to ANY other gaming company on the market - not for a second.
In my opinion, i've always seen Telltale as ambitious and talented when it comes to tackling changes. However... i can't help but see this as a step backwards.
I admit I'll play it either way, but I wonder if it'd be possible to at least allow for a mouse-only option on the PC? The keyboard could be used to rotate the camera if necessary.
Regarding "a complete point and click solution does NOT work well on consoles" -- works fine on the Wii, except for the clicking-high-makes-you-move-in-the-opposite-direction problem in Strong Bad.
Denying myself playing a great game? Who said that?
So far, I've been a proud supporter of Telltale, but only in the products I like, and I'd love to continue being a proud supporter of Telltale.
But I won't BUY anything I don't like.
No one understands calculus, Chuck. At least no one whose sanity I wouldn't openly question.
I didn't play Wallace and Grommit, I'm going to have to try the demo to see what the controls are like. If it's as horrible as MI4 was, I'm going to be sorely disappointed.