Which is the only point I was making. If you think I called people with physical disabilities imaginary, you didn't read what I wrote.
I did, actually.
You said that Telltale should accommodate an imaginary populous unable to use their keyboard. There's a difference between "can't" and "would prefer not to."
If you meant something other, that's fine. But what you wrote reads as it being imaginary that such a populous exists, while it does.
I take it you meant the emphasis to be more on whether TTG SHOULD accomadate or not; that is not how what you wrote reads, however. The "imaginary" applies to the populous' existence any way I look at it.
I'm not looking for a fight, and if you meant something different, no problem. But I did read what you wrote, and this is how it comes across.
At this point in my life I would much rather use a controller. Ulnar nerves in my arms are messed up pretty badly (RSI from being a programmer, most likely), so it's a lot less painful for me to use a controller than a mouse.
What you propose sounds to me just like a point 'n click interface where the character follows the cursor around, which doesn't at all address the reasons Telltale stated they adopted direct control for W&G in the first place. Unless I misunderstand your intentions? What exactly is this "digital UI overlay" supposed to be?
Ah, so you're simply saying there should be GUI arrows that represent the arrow keys. Your suggestion does sound easy to implement, but what it doesn't sound like is an acceptable control scheme.
Delete the stuff in the middle, it's irrelevant now. And yes, We are saying GUI arrows that represent the arrow keys. But what I further expanded...which IMO makes it acceptable now is the same thing but an Analog GUI instead of 4 digital Buttons.
So what I have done here... is made a little representation to help wrap your head around the idea.
So This is a calibration screen. See the + with the circle around it. When you move the analog on the controller it move the plus is 1:1 in coordination. Showing just how far the analog has moved. Hitting the outside edge of the circle means the analog is pushed all the way to the edge. Put that on the screen. Make the + a soft white dot so it looks clean. Dragging the dot up would make you walk in the exact same path that pushing up on the analog would make you walk. So you control an analog with the mouse. To make it a bit cleaner Bind the analog walk to middle mouse. So when you push middle mouse it makes your pointer invisible and puts the analog circle small in the bottom corner of the screen. When you stop walking (by releasing middle mouse) your cursor comes back so you can interact with objects in the world.
To me, I see that as problem solved... It even solved the whole 8 direction dilemma with choppy grid animation.
I'm not looking for a fight, and if you meant something different, no problem. But I did read what you wrote, and this is how it comes across.
When I was having that discussion with Armakuni, I suspected that when he was using the argument that some people "can't" use their keyboard, he really meant that some people would prefer not to (for reasons having nothing to do with disability) over the exclusive use of a mouse, and indeed, that's what he changed his argument to. I read "unable to use keyboard" as "not having a keyboard available" and not "not physically able to use a keyboard." I consider whatever tiny amount of people who somehow don't have a keyboard with their PC and expect to be accommodated by video games to be imaginary.
Obviously, there are people who physically can't use or have difficulties using a keyboard, just like there are people who probably have trouble using a mouse as well. Or seeing. But I don't feel like it's appropriate to use the existence of people with physical disabilities to validate individual opinions about adventure game control schemes, opinions that are clearly based on feelings that have nothing to do with sensitivity to such people.
At this point in my life I would much rather use a controller. Ulnar nerves in my arms are messed up pretty badly (RSI from being a programmer, most likely), so it's a lot less painful for me to use a controller than a mouse.
Ouch. My sympathies. Have you noticed a difference with a touch-pad mouse instead of a standard one? I doubt I could use a normal one easily, but the touch-pad is/was a god-send to me.
I keep wondering if the Wii remote would be the best option for me; my fear is that since my entire body is affected that I'd end up with my entire arm suffering, instead of my hand(s). I have a PS2, but my wrists seem to last longer than my fingers (it's the gripping-motion, I think) on that.
It's one reason I don't expect a control scheme tailored with the disabled; many of us have different issues, and no one scheme fits all of them. But I'll still take the point and click when and while I can, since in my case it's the best.
When I was having that discussion with Armakuni, I suspected that when he was using the argument that some people "can't" use their keyboard, he really meant that some people would prefer not to (for reasons having nothing to do with disability) over the exclusive use of a mouse, and indeed, that's what he changed his argument to. I read "unable to use keyboard" as "not having a keyboard available" and not "not physically able to use a keyboard.
That makes sense, then. And like I said, I wasn't looking for a fight; I just didn't interpret Armakuni's remark that way, but it may be because, well. Such a population does seem to be imaginary. My brain just automatically went to "unable to".
But I don't feel like it's appropriate to use the existence of people with physical disabilities to validate individual opinions about adventure game control schemes, opinions that are clearly based on feelings that have nothing to do with sensitivity to such people.
Actually, I appreciate and thank you for that. It's not. I don't know Armakuni at all and can't say that was what was being done, but I do want to thank you for the sentiment.
Although I'd have to actually use it, that sounds to me like it would be really clunky in practice, does not allow you to interact with the world while moving the character (which both the W&G and "pure" point 'n click interfaces do), and assumes that every player has a middle mouse button. The general idea of using a mouse to mimic an analog stick by "dragging" sounds more misguided than Grim Fandango and EMI's "drive the character" method.
Although I'd have to actually use it, that sounds to me like it would be really clunky in practice, does not allow you to interact with the world while moving the character (which both the W&G and "pure" point 'n click interfaces do), and assumes that every player has a middle mouse button. The general idea of using a mouse to mimic an analog stick by "dragging" sounds more misguided than Grim Fandango and EMI's "drive the character" method.
I've used them in other applications and they work totally fine. And in PNC's you can't move and click at the same time, since moving is clicking. And in W&G when you click on an object you walk over to it anyhow.... So keeping that intact, I don't see the issue.
Plus.... Do remember, we aren't talking replacement here... just added functionality ontop of what is already currently being used. So if you didn't want to use it you wouldn't have to... you could still use your KB+M if you'd like.
Also, you can always make the button rebind able in the options menu. So people without a middle mouse (which is probably a low populace in itself) could in fact make it a different button... or a combination of M1 and M2.
Obviously, there are people who physically can't use or have difficulties using a keyboard, just like there are people who probably have trouble using a mouse as well. Or seeing.
But if there was a very easy way to include options for these people (and I mean options that would be incredibly easy to implement)... wouldn't it be nice to see it included? It's not someone one should *expect* to be included, but if it took a very small effort, it would be nice to have
And in a way, adventure games fall into a special category.. because it's what many disabled people have found some comfort in, after they could no longer play other genres.
I'm not saying this is any reason why developers should keep mouse controls, I'm just saying this is why many disabled people will be disappointed with changes like these.
I would *not* use disabilities as an argument to keep certain kinds of controls, as I pointed out much earlier in the thread.
I just went as far as saying 'it would be nice' to have some sort of option, and that was in reply to a suggestion I think would be very easy to implement.
I would never *expect* a company to cater to any small minority.
I've used them in other applications and they work totally fine. And in PNC's you can't move and click at the same time, since moving is clicking. And in W&G when you click on an object you walk over to it anyhow.... So keeping that intact, I don't see the issue.
But it sounds like with your method while you're moving the character you're utterly paralyzed from doing anything else. For W&G and other point 'n click games you do not have to halt before clicking or selecting an object on the screen. In most games you can still move and click, such as if you decide to change your path while you're walking. Imagine if the cursor disappeared every time your character is moving and only reappeared when you stopped. If I accidentally clicked all the way to the left of the screen, I would have to wait until the character made it all the way over there before I could put him in the direction I really intended.
But if there was a very easy way to include options for these people (and I mean options that would be incredibly easy to implement)... wouldn't it be nice to see it included? It's not someone one should *expect* to be included, but if it took a very small effort, it would be nice to have
Which again, comes back to your assumption that it would take a very small effort to include, which I suspect comes more out of your desire to see its inclusion rather than because you have any insight into the processes and ramifications behind making it possible.
The suggestion I said would be nice (for people uncomfortable using a keyboard) *would* be easy to include. That's my point, if it was that easy to include some option for blind people to play, then I think that would be nice to have as well
Anyway, I bet someone will create a script to mimic this... as is already the case for the W&G games.
Ouch. My sympathies. Have you noticed a difference with a touch-pad mouse instead of a standard one? I doubt I could use a normal one easily, but the touch-pad is/was a god-send to me.
I keep wondering if the Wii remote would be the best option for me; my fear is that since my entire body is affected that I'd end up with my entire arm suffering, instead of my hand(s). I have a PS2, but my wrists seem to last longer than my fingers (it's the gripping-motion, I think) on that.
It's one reason I don't expect a control scheme tailored with the disabled; many of us have different issues, and no one scheme fits all of them. But I'll still take the point and click when and while I can, since in my case it's the best.
Thanks. a touchpad is somewhat better - but not as comfy as a controller, since a controller lets me droop my arms and keep the elbows straight. I'm looking into variety of pointing devices at the moment. I'm seriously considering a foot mouse.
I guess that if I decide to go for a foot mouse, then I would lean to the other side and prefer point & click interface. hrmmm...
But it sounds like with your method while you're moving the character you're utterly paralyzed from doing anything else. For W&G and other point 'n click games you do not have to halt before clicking or selecting an object on the screen. In most games you can still move and click, such as if you decide to change your path while you're walking. Imagine if the cursor disappeared every time your character is moving and only reappeared when you stopped. If I accidentally clicked all the way to the left of the screen, I would have to wait until the character made it all the way over there before I could put him in the direction I really intended.
Which again, comes back to your assumption that it would take a very small effort to include, which I suspect comes more out of your desire to see its inclusion rather than because you have any insight into the processes and ramifications behind making it possible.
Well no, cuz if you clicked on an object and you walked over there... you wouldn't be using the direct drive system anyhow.... so you could click on another option or simply middle click once to stop. Movement would be fluid... but you are right that if you are moving around in drive mode you wouldn't be able to click. (The only time I would probably do this is on a second playthrough if I knew what I was doing... but even if you move just as far as you have to to get the screen to scroll or change so the object you wished to click was on screen. Then you stop and just click it.) This would be acceptable if I chose to use it over any other methods that are available. It is an adventure game after all, no time constraints or fast clicking required so it wouldn't really have an effect on the gameplay IMO. Which would make it a totally viable alternative for people who wish to have Mouse Only control.
Thanks. a touchpad is somewhat better - but not as comfy as a controller, since a controller lets me droop my arms and keep the elbows straight. I'm looking into variety of pointing devices at the moment. I'm seriously considering a foot mouse.
I guess that if I decide to go for a foot mouse, then I would lean to the other side and prefer point & click interface. hrmmm...
I've been intrigued by the idea of a foot-mouse--I have more problems with my fingers than the rest of my arms, so a mouse is easier than a keyboard, but my wrist and the rest of my arm do end up sore at best from it--but I just feel like I couldn't control it to the level I'd want to.
Plus, my problem is body-wide, so I guess it wouldn't really be that much better in my case, though at least I could give my arms/hands a break without having to get off the comp entirely.
I'm wondering about trying a controller now that you mention it as a back-up, at least; the gripping motion is difficult for me, but it might be a thing where swapping off between mouse and controller would allow me more time on the computer over-all.
Personally, I'm longing for programs to advance so voice-to-text programs will work really easily and WELL with things like adventure games. It would be so nice to just...not have to find a new thing to rotate through in order to do something other than write in word doc or email--or, I suppose, post in forums--while my hands rest.
Jumping from mouse to joypad/keyboard+mouse steering doesn't sound like an innovation to me, it's an alternative with some pros and as far as i see it mostly cons. I'm dissapointed by this step as i love mouse point&click games. It's like they once took away the inventory combinations. I also don't buy the that it can't be done by a mouse argumentation as i've done far too many steerings in my life with the mouse and other controllers as well.
Somehow it leaves an impression that for the sake of consoles they are trying to push that through with a strong MI licence, knowing that despite quite some dislike this move ,they still will buy the game.
A joypad for sure is a nice option for running around in a scene you especially design for and it felt great for instance in Psychonauts but it lacks a lot on the exploring&selection side.
I really wonder why you design environments in this direction when you can have plenty of fun in less problematic scenarios as well. In the end i guess i'll also buy it just because i'm too curious about MI but it also rips away another brick of the enthusiasm i once felt for TTG.
(probably at Apple, not at Microsoft) noticed that is much more convenient to control your actions using a mouse pointer instead of a keyboard. Keyboad control is certainly the right decision for complex games where you have 20 different options you can choose from at the same time. But what I always liked about this type of adventure games is that you do not have to worry at all about the controls, but can intuitively move the characters around using the mouse.
Actually the mouse is an invention of the sixties, Xerox invented the graphical user interface as we know it.
Anyway back to the control scheme, I am currently playing Drakensang, a party based rpg, and it has rather similar controls (wsad for movement and point and click for interaction) and a mouse control, but the mouse only option sucks, and there is a reason, the environment is pure 3d with a free floating camera. All I say is that pure mouse control has its limits and WSAD + mouse can work really well in such an environment.
The control scheme of Drakensang is along following:
WSAD for movement with the camera going automatically into the back of the person moving, sort of a first person/third person mode.
Right mouse button and mouse movement for camera adjustment.
Normal mouse button for point and click movement.
Click on any spot the person automatically goes there, all hotspots within the screen are reachable.
You can play mouse only that way but you end up with WSAD + mouse because mouse only sucks literally in this game.
I am not talking about TTG should do exactly this control scheme but there is something to learn, first there are situations where mouse only double click style like 2d adventures use them suck big time. But you can work around those problems in many ways and WSAD can work, but it should not be the only option for people who prefer mouse.
My personal guess is that TTGs control scheme in mouse only would work the following way
a) Forget any directional buttons as static overlay on the screen this sucks big time no one will use that, personal experience, they tried it in the 90s in various games, literally no one used that! (Ultima Underworld had it afair)
b) What really works however is a control scheme Gabriel Knight 3 style where you use the right mouse button and a slight movement in the direction desired to move the character. Sort of a simulated analog gamepad.
Press the right mousebutton move the mouse slightly to the left and stop, the character moves to the left until either you move the mouse again in another direction or you release the button. Move the cursor up a little bit and stop or not the character moves up until change of directions or stop!
This works however only with fixed camera controls, if you introduce a free floating camera, then all i can say is, the control scheme Drakensang uses (and others like NWN I assume) is the only way to go, and most people will end up with WSAD or gamepad, there are limits to mouse only as I said!
Press the right mousebutton move the mouse slightly to the left and stop, the character moves to the left until either you move the mouse again in another direction or you release the button. Move the cursor up a little bit and stop or not the character moves up until change of directions or stop!
Certainly better than the control scheme W&G used even though it sounds like the character movement could be looking really strange. Maybe instead of having to keep the button pressed they could make that somekind of walking-mode is activated until the mouse cursor is moved onto the character.
This way it would be pretty close to point & click as I could right-click and move the cursor over whereever i want to go (if I do not have to walk around some obstacles) and the char would stop there as it reached the cursor.
Hmmm...this really sounds pretty nice. Good idea werpu.
Certainly better than the control scheme W&G used even though it sounds like the character movement could be looking really strange. Maybe instead of having to keep the button pressed they could make that somekind of walking-mode is activated until the mouse cursor is moved onto the character.
This way it would be pretty close to point & click as I could right-click and move the cursor over whereever i want to go (if I do not have to walk around some obstacles) and the char would stop there as it reached the cursor.
Hmmm...this really sounds pretty nice. Good idea werpu.
Btw. another interesting idea to stop the endless discussions, telltale could do a small demo 2 screents, with various control schemes and then let the community decide which ones they prefer ...
About the immersion factor as the reason for changing controls. Part of why I like adventure games is because they are typically self-aware and make little winks to the player. I didn't find myself being drawn out of the game and losing interest because Cobb gave me a sales pitch for Loom or because Sam asked if Bosco had any fine leather jackets for sale. If anything, those were laugh out loud moments. The game is funnier for me when it acknowledges what it is and makes a joke out of its own absurdities.
As far as being immersed in a character, I never felt like I was Guybrush, Sam, Bernard, Boston, etc., but I didn't want to either. In an FPS, I can see being immersed in my character. In an adventure game, it's more like trying to guide someone else along to do the things I think will help him/her out of their predicament. The character is indepedent. He tells me, "Mmmmm, no." when I suggest he do a task he doesn't feel like doing. I like the personality of that god-like system. I am not interested in being a character, I want to move the little people around the diorama soundstage.
Seriously? You're doing the WASD-thing again? Adventure game controls were more or less perfected around 1995 when Full Throttle came out. Why do we get less intuitive controls FOURTEEN years later?
I couldn't agree more. Even though I love TTG, their games and staff, I think they have not yet implemented the ideal GUI in their adventure games, which, IMHO, is a point-and-click interface with a context-sensitive radial cursor, much like the one seen in Full Throttle (the "verb skull"), The Curse of Monkey Island (the "verb coin") and, more recently, A Vampyre Story (the "verb cross", proving it CAN work in a 3D environment).
The right mouse button could also get some much needed attention, serving to open the inventory screen (where you should be able to combine items), and skip whatever long conversations and painstakingly slow walks you may want to. I mean, It's not like this has been done before... am I right?
I prefer the numpad because your thumb can be further away from the rest of your fingers instead of all cramped together. I don't use the same finger for the down and up arrows. I use my thumb for the down arrow and my middle finger for the up arrow (instead of the middle finger for both up and down as most people seem to do it). This is because I like to walk backwards as quickly as I can without having to switch my finger back and forth between two keys. It's just too awkward to do that for me in a D-Arrows/WASD format.
Nice idea, I never thought about an extra finger for quick escapes
But which number-keys do you use for the directions?
8 = up, 4 = left, 6 = right and 2 = down should be the default... strange position for the thumb on the 2... the "enter"-key would be much more comfortable.
W = up, A = left, D = right and "Space" = down should be comfortable too.
That would be ideal, but the numpad enter key is engrained in my mind as a use key. Same with the space bar. And yes, I use 2, 4, 6, and 8. It's really not so difficult as a arrow key/WASD layout.
As far as being immersed in a character, I never felt like I was Guybrush, Sam, Bernard, Boston, etc., but I didn't want to either. In an FPS, I can see being immersed in my character. In an adventure game, it's more like trying to guide someone else along to do the things I think will help him/her out of their predicament. The character is indepedent. He tells me, "Mmmmm, no." when I suggest he do a task he doesn't feel like doing. I like the personality of that god-like system. I am not interested in being a character, I want to move the little people around the diorama soundstage.
The problem with that argument though is, if there is a million people willing to purchase a game for $60, there is easily 6 million people willing to buy it for $19.99.
I'd be surprised. Be assured that companies like EA know where to price a product to maximize profit. After a certain threshold, dropping the price decreases revenue faster than the increasing number of sales can compensate (I work in mobile telco, and I can very well observe this fact in my quarterly bonus figures ). Trust the big publishing companies that they are very well aware where this threshold lies.
There is only 2 notable problems with tell tale stopping them from being the best dev team to ever exist IMO.
1.) Episodes. I don't want episodic games.....
2.) They are designing their games wrong.
Telltale is built about episodic gaming, and if you don't like the way they're designing their games, I honestly don't see how they are competing to be your best dev team.
They have a very special place in my heart for resurrecting the adventure genre - but I do like the episodic approach, and I also like the experience, the effort and the love they put into each game.
Same here, Telltale are an excellent company, and have produced some stellar games. This turn towards keyboard navigation upsets me though, and it clearly has upset many others. I don't understand how they can just ignore a thread this large.
It's really sort of disappointing to see all the negative feedback flying around. I think this is what happens when developers (or band members) are open and talk to their fans, and that's why I've also seen, in many cases, they just stop doing so.
Constructive feedback is great, and we welcome it, but sometimes you just got to watch the way you say it if you really want to be listened. Saying "you guys don't know what you are doing, you are designing it wrong" etc, that's just not going to get anyone anywhere. We've been doing this for the past 5 years, we may not be Gods of adventure, but give us some credibility here and trust the choices we make. We are listening to you and we are discussing controls all the time. We design, we test, we try different things, and at the end, we go with what we believe it's best. It's not going to please everyone, but all these threads of "do this, do it like that, do it this way", can irk anyone really fast. Do any of you know exactly what takes to develop episodic games to be released so fast month after month? It's a brutal process, and one that we are always trying to perfect, but a month flies by FAST, and we do our best to both deliver a great game to you, and to run a business.
We have to expand, and to expand we need to go to the consoles, and to go to the consoles we have to design controls that fit all platforms, and sometimes, compromises must be made. And let me say that if the company hadn't taken these steps to expand and to grow, Monkey Island would not be happening. It's all part of the growth of a business, that we can now have 3 or 4 projects going at the same time when before it only used to be 1. We now have the development team needed to create Monkey Island because of these choices to grow.
So, do you prefer point & click over to Monkey Island? I find it hard to see the logic here.
On a different --yet related-- topic, I was the main designer for King's Quest: The Silver Lining (which is about to be released, btw :P). When we went from static screens to full 3D scrolling screens, we implemented the idea someone posted here about clicking on the edges for "continuous" walk, so that if you were traversing vertically, you could return without having to click 7000 times. That worked, although many times I wished we would just have implemented the keyboard. When having to turn your character around 180 in a couple of environments --that's where the system wasn't so good.
So, you just have to admit that Wallace & Gromit is the most cinematic game Telltale has ever made. I have never really seen any adventure game in the past that has this amount of close up cameras while you are traversing through the world. It's just amazing. The character is not always so far away, you get more personal with the characters, the camera work just immerses you in the game. It's really different! Now, there have been many ideas here about how to make it work with the mouse, and I'm sure they've been discussed here and tested, and they didn't work as well as trying the keyboard.
We cannot create different control schemes for different platforms. We don't have the capabilities for what that implies. Maybe in the future, but we'll need to grow, and to grow we need to expand, and to expand we need to try new things..... you see where this is going?
The community of adventure gamers need to get on with the wave. It's a community that is always complaining about the lack of games, about bringing the classic backs. About how they wish Sierra and LucasArt games came back, and when they do, and developers try to adjust them to the current gen of videogames, then it seems as if a lot of people in the community all prefer that the game never happened in the first place.
We are at least keeping the spirit of the adventure alive and staying truth to the roots of these games. Look at what they did to Larry. Cut us some slack here
I know it's hard and you're doing a fantastic job with your games... but as you can surely understand, the lack of point & click really is a big disappointment to many people.
But if you don't have the capacity to have different control schemes on different formats, then I understand that a sacrifice has to be made.
Let me ask one question - if you come up with a fully mouse driven system you're not perfectly happy with - could you include that as an undocumented feature? Maybe you'd have to enable it manually in a config file somewhere..?
That way, people could test it out and give some feedback.
Personally this took quite some of the grief which grew more and more away from me as i for the first time have the feeling that certain complains here are taken serious.
I do have a couple of questions, if you can answer those:
Why does TTG needs to expand and grow and up to which size? I mean at which point is it sufficient? What's TTG after? I understand that depending on your goals you need a certain size of a company and if you're smaller you just can't do certain kind of projects.
Why does it need to be cinematic? Is this something TTG wants or is it something more the sales figures dictate? I mean from my personal perspective i don't have something against a cinematic presentation but i'm also completely fine without it as long as the presentation is nice, the story is good, the riddles are well done, ... i don't need an immersive 3d environment for enjoying an adventure game.
As you brought up W&G, i agree that the immersive experience is better than in any other TTG production but the fun with exploring and trying things out was reduced significantly compared to other games as well, i simply missed the intuitive input possibility which mouse point&click offers.
In the end i think you can optimize the whole steering from both sides, either from the joypad and/or from the mouse side. It's just that with the mouse point&click your're already familiar and it's somehow closer to the sweet spot.
In the end and after sleeping a night over it i prefer a Monkey Island with a joypad control over no Monkey Island at all but it's just not the perfect experience you could have hoped for, you know?!
Well at least your honest admitting its mostly about the money; I cannot understand how you can be surprised by the massive amounts of complaints though as the last Monkey Island game was horribly ruined by its bad controls and the W&G-controls really didnt work that great (imo).
I also dont understand how keyboard controls are supposed to be a compromise (it aint no compromise when one side gets all and the other gets nothing) but I guess you have your reasons and maybe the growing console market is just to important to cater to the B-class copyright-infringing PC fanbase.
I like you for giving new life to adventure games and continuing / starting great game series but I´d rather have one top quality product (like S&M Seasons 1 & 2) than having 3 games which play like W&G (which wasnt a bad game but just got messed up by its controls imo).
Please dont mess THIS one up. This is the holy grail of adventure games and who knows, maybe it could be the start of a new era
In the end and after sleeping a night over it i prefer a Monkey Island with a joypad control over no Monkey Island at all but it's just not the perfect experience you could have hoped for, you know?!
It is what you make it to be. You'll find it to be perfectly fun and a perfect experience if you just move on and stop griping. I don't see what's so immersive about just the mouse, or what's so great about just the mouse. The game has the mouse for all other actions but walking. What's so IN DEPTH and amazing about walking with a mouse? I get TIRED of clicking over and over and over to move somewhere in an adventure game! MI fans are worse than Trekkies, I swear.
I'll say it again. YOU CONTROL ALL actions but walking with the mouse. That's what was shown in the recent interview with Mike Stemmle at E3.
Not MI fans exclusively, a lot of general adventure gamers much prefer point & click.
If you get tired of clicking, I can imagine you must get *really* tired of constantly pressing keys to navigate the character
Anyway, convenience is the biggest reason people prefer point & click. When you're stuck, it's simply much less of a hassle to casually click around, trying to find out what to do, rather than manually navigating your character around for hours.
But anyway... I think everyone has realized this by now and it's not worth repeating over and over.
Not MI fans exclusively, a lot of general adventure gamers much prefer point & click.
If you get tired of clicking, I can imagine you must get *really* tired of constantly pressing keys to navigate the character
Anyway, convenience is the biggest reason people prefer point & click. When you're stuck, it's simply much less of a hassle to casually click around, trying to find out what to do, rather than manually navigating your character around for hours.
It's a lot more convenient in 3D to navigate with keyboard controls, no matter how you word it. I get tired as well of having to keep clicking five times before my character turns in the direction I want him to turn to.
And that constant pressing of keys isn't nearly as constant as the clicking of the mouse. Though that constant clicking comes more from a desire to get the character to move with the scrolling background, whereas with a keyboard you just press the key down until you get where you want to go.
Yeah, I shouldn't be arguing as well, but I'm just voicing my opinion.
It's a problem I had a lot in 3D adventure games, such as Broken Sword 4, Monkey Island 4, and Grim Fandango.
Actually I've had it as well with a keyboard but not as often, as that depended more on the skills of the programmer and the choppiness of the game.
I think actually, now that I consider it, I think neither point and click nor keyboard control has an advantage over the other. At least not enough for the horrible comments I've seen directed at the team so far.
I really think, right now, then please stop making consoles version or even stop doing PC, its not fair to us or anyone else, that we have to get the stick / shaft what ever you call it, because it has to fit consoles, in this golden era of gaming, i as a pc gamer, are getting so tired of always ending with the inferior game, controls whatever.
Its just not fair to us, and that might sound cold, but i have no love for consoles what so ever, they are ruining gaming imo, because im most of the games now adays we get shafted, because ermm lets do a cheap port to pc.
I simply cannot understand why you cannot and will not make 2 sets of controls, it can be done in other games, and again put one version on hold. Im getting so tired of having to compromise. As the old saying goes "Either do it right! or dont do it at all".
I wanna play this game as much as anyone, i can even live with youre graphics, in that sense that the remake done by Lucas Arts looks better. But i cannot, live with the inferior Wallace and gromit controls, it removes by focus from the game to have to pause and use controls, for me that totally ruins the immersion.
Do you really thinks fans say this just to have fun or to be annoying, it really doesnt hurt to listen sometimes. Put the project on hold to 2010 if that what it takes.
I really hate Ubisoft sometimes, but atleast we got it in to their head with their 2007 mr homeless bum Sam Fisher throwing with microwaves did not work, no matter how much they thought it would, and they redid it, now for me that takes guts, to come forth listen and accept "Hey we made a mistake" we are redoing it.
So yeah we hear you, but i think its only fair you listen to fans as well. Its not like we are demanding a whole lot, simple point and click system.
Im pretty sure that most of the people here including myself, while some posts may be harsh, are posting out of love for the game, and wanting it to be as good as possible, atleast thats why i voice my concerns.
And its not like we have not given youre control scheme a try in Wallace and Gromit, and to my knowledge you are just directly important that in Monkey Island and for me that is so unacceptable.
So it would be nice to know, if you atleast are trying other way for keyboard control scheme ?
Secret Fawful - Well, what we find convenient seems to be subjective, no point in arguing that.
But a lot of people do find point & click a lot more convenient, and using a joypad/keyboard alters the experience.
If you prefer keyboard controls, that's great for you
EDIT - RMJ1984 - he already stated in his post that they can't afford to have different control schemes in different versions. They're a rather small company, after all. And I do appreciate (really!) that we can at least keep the cursor for some actions.
I also heard the control scheme won't be exactly the same as in W&G. Just how different it'll be remains to be seen, not much info so far.
Armakuni - It's not that I prefer keyboard more than mouse; I like them the same. I think the complaints against using a keyboard to move are absolutely ungrateful and ridiculous. It's bordered on riotous and I'm surprised TTG has the patience to release the game. Perhaps the game will be canned between now and July to appease the fanbase. That would be absolutely wonderful. Then we wouldn't have to put up with using the arrow keys to walk anywhere in the game, because it wouldn't exist. Yey!
RMJ1984 - TTG has just as much love for the game as you do. And if you think point and click is the way adventure games were meant to be, remember that most of Sierra's adventure games were controlled by keyboard alone. On second thought, that made them pretty tedious....but on the other hand with keyboard versus mouse you were less likely to fall of a cliff and die. Play Kings Quest 3 VGA to see what I mean.
Comments
I did, actually.
You said that Telltale should accommodate an imaginary populous unable to use their keyboard. There's a difference between "can't" and "would prefer not to."
If you meant something other, that's fine. But what you wrote reads as it being imaginary that such a populous exists, while it does.
I take it you meant the emphasis to be more on whether TTG SHOULD accomadate or not; that is not how what you wrote reads, however. The "imaginary" applies to the populous' existence any way I look at it.
I'm not looking for a fight, and if you meant something different, no problem. But I did read what you wrote, and this is how it comes across.
Delete the stuff in the middle, it's irrelevant now. And yes, We are saying GUI arrows that represent the arrow keys. But what I further expanded...which IMO makes it acceptable now is the same thing but an Analog GUI instead of 4 digital Buttons.
So what I have done here... is made a little representation to help wrap your head around the idea.
So This is a calibration screen. See the + with the circle around it. When you move the analog on the controller it move the plus is 1:1 in coordination. Showing just how far the analog has moved. Hitting the outside edge of the circle means the analog is pushed all the way to the edge. Put that on the screen. Make the + a soft white dot so it looks clean. Dragging the dot up would make you walk in the exact same path that pushing up on the analog would make you walk. So you control an analog with the mouse. To make it a bit cleaner Bind the analog walk to middle mouse. So when you push middle mouse it makes your pointer invisible and puts the analog circle small in the bottom corner of the screen. When you stop walking (by releasing middle mouse) your cursor comes back so you can interact with objects in the world.
To me, I see that as problem solved... It even solved the whole 8 direction dilemma with choppy grid animation.
Win/win/win IMO. Whatcha think?
When I was having that discussion with Armakuni, I suspected that when he was using the argument that some people "can't" use their keyboard, he really meant that some people would prefer not to (for reasons having nothing to do with disability) over the exclusive use of a mouse, and indeed, that's what he changed his argument to. I read "unable to use keyboard" as "not having a keyboard available" and not "not physically able to use a keyboard." I consider whatever tiny amount of people who somehow don't have a keyboard with their PC and expect to be accommodated by video games to be imaginary.
Obviously, there are people who physically can't use or have difficulties using a keyboard, just like there are people who probably have trouble using a mouse as well. Or seeing. But I don't feel like it's appropriate to use the existence of people with physical disabilities to validate individual opinions about adventure game control schemes, opinions that are clearly based on feelings that have nothing to do with sensitivity to such people.
Ouch. My sympathies. Have you noticed a difference with a touch-pad mouse instead of a standard one? I doubt I could use a normal one easily, but the touch-pad is/was a god-send to me.
I keep wondering if the Wii remote would be the best option for me; my fear is that since my entire body is affected that I'd end up with my entire arm suffering, instead of my hand(s). I have a PS2, but my wrists seem to last longer than my fingers (it's the gripping-motion, I think) on that.
It's one reason I don't expect a control scheme tailored with the disabled; many of us have different issues, and no one scheme fits all of them. But I'll still take the point and click when and while I can, since in my case it's the best.
That makes sense, then. And like I said, I wasn't looking for a fight; I just didn't interpret Armakuni's remark that way, but it may be because, well. Such a population does seem to be imaginary. My brain just automatically went to "unable to".
Actually, I appreciate and thank you for that. It's not. I don't know Armakuni at all and can't say that was what was being done, but I do want to thank you for the sentiment.
Although I'd have to actually use it, that sounds to me like it would be really clunky in practice, does not allow you to interact with the world while moving the character (which both the W&G and "pure" point 'n click interfaces do), and assumes that every player has a middle mouse button. The general idea of using a mouse to mimic an analog stick by "dragging" sounds more misguided than Grim Fandango and EMI's "drive the character" method.
I've used them in other applications and they work totally fine. And in PNC's you can't move and click at the same time, since moving is clicking. And in W&G when you click on an object you walk over to it anyhow.... So keeping that intact, I don't see the issue.
Plus.... Do remember, we aren't talking replacement here... just added functionality ontop of what is already currently being used. So if you didn't want to use it you wouldn't have to... you could still use your KB+M if you'd like.
Also, you can always make the button rebind able in the options menu. So people without a middle mouse (which is probably a low populace in itself) could in fact make it a different button... or a combination of M1 and M2.
And in a way, adventure games fall into a special category.. because it's what many disabled people have found some comfort in, after they could no longer play other genres.
I'm not saying this is any reason why developers should keep mouse controls, I'm just saying this is why many disabled people will be disappointed with changes like these.
I would *not* use disabilities as an argument to keep certain kinds of controls, as I pointed out much earlier in the thread.
I just went as far as saying 'it would be nice' to have some sort of option, and that was in reply to a suggestion I think would be very easy to implement.
I would never *expect* a company to cater to any small minority.
But it sounds like with your method while you're moving the character you're utterly paralyzed from doing anything else. For W&G and other point 'n click games you do not have to halt before clicking or selecting an object on the screen. In most games you can still move and click, such as if you decide to change your path while you're walking. Imagine if the cursor disappeared every time your character is moving and only reappeared when you stopped. If I accidentally clicked all the way to the left of the screen, I would have to wait until the character made it all the way over there before I could put him in the direction I really intended.
Which again, comes back to your assumption that it would take a very small effort to include, which I suspect comes more out of your desire to see its inclusion rather than because you have any insight into the processes and ramifications behind making it possible.
Anyway, I bet someone will create a script to mimic this... as is already the case for the W&G games.
Thanks. a touchpad is somewhat better - but not as comfy as a controller, since a controller lets me droop my arms and keep the elbows straight. I'm looking into variety of pointing devices at the moment. I'm seriously considering a foot mouse.
I guess that if I decide to go for a foot mouse, then I would lean to the other side and prefer point & click interface. hrmmm...
Well no, cuz if you clicked on an object and you walked over there... you wouldn't be using the direct drive system anyhow.... so you could click on another option or simply middle click once to stop. Movement would be fluid... but you are right that if you are moving around in drive mode you wouldn't be able to click. (The only time I would probably do this is on a second playthrough if I knew what I was doing... but even if you move just as far as you have to to get the screen to scroll or change so the object you wished to click was on screen. Then you stop and just click it.) This would be acceptable if I chose to use it over any other methods that are available. It is an adventure game after all, no time constraints or fast clicking required so it wouldn't really have an effect on the gameplay IMO. Which would make it a totally viable alternative for people who wish to have Mouse Only control.
I've been intrigued by the idea of a foot-mouse--I have more problems with my fingers than the rest of my arms, so a mouse is easier than a keyboard, but my wrist and the rest of my arm do end up sore at best from it--but I just feel like I couldn't control it to the level I'd want to.
Plus, my problem is body-wide, so I guess it wouldn't really be that much better in my case, though at least I could give my arms/hands a break without having to get off the comp entirely.
I'm wondering about trying a controller now that you mention it as a back-up, at least; the gripping motion is difficult for me, but it might be a thing where swapping off between mouse and controller would allow me more time on the computer over-all.
Personally, I'm longing for programs to advance so voice-to-text programs will work really easily and WELL with things like adventure games. It would be so nice to just...not have to find a new thing to rotate through in order to do something other than write in word doc or email--or, I suppose, post in forums--while my hands rest.
Somehow it leaves an impression that for the sake of consoles they are trying to push that through with a strong MI licence, knowing that despite quite some dislike this move ,they still will buy the game.
A joypad for sure is a nice option for running around in a scene you especially design for and it felt great for instance in Psychonauts but it lacks a lot on the exploring&selection side.
I really wonder why you design environments in this direction when you can have plenty of fun in less problematic scenarios as well. In the end i guess i'll also buy it just because i'm too curious about MI but it also rips away another brick of the enthusiasm i once felt for TTG.
Actually the mouse is an invention of the sixties, Xerox invented the graphical user interface as we know it.
Anyway back to the control scheme, I am currently playing Drakensang, a party based rpg, and it has rather similar controls (wsad for movement and point and click for interaction) and a mouse control, but the mouse only option sucks, and there is a reason, the environment is pure 3d with a free floating camera. All I say is that pure mouse control has its limits and WSAD + mouse can work really well in such an environment.
The control scheme of Drakensang is along following:
WSAD for movement with the camera going automatically into the back of the person moving, sort of a first person/third person mode.
Right mouse button and mouse movement for camera adjustment.
Normal mouse button for point and click movement.
Click on any spot the person automatically goes there, all hotspots within the screen are reachable.
You can play mouse only that way but you end up with WSAD + mouse because mouse only sucks literally in this game.
I am not talking about TTG should do exactly this control scheme but there is something to learn, first there are situations where mouse only double click style like 2d adventures use them suck big time. But you can work around those problems in many ways and WSAD can work, but it should not be the only option for people who prefer mouse.
My personal guess is that TTGs control scheme in mouse only would work the following way
a) Forget any directional buttons as static overlay on the screen this sucks big time no one will use that, personal experience, they tried it in the 90s in various games, literally no one used that! (Ultima Underworld had it afair)
b) What really works however is a control scheme Gabriel Knight 3 style where you use the right mouse button and a slight movement in the direction desired to move the character. Sort of a simulated analog gamepad.
Press the right mousebutton move the mouse slightly to the left and stop, the character moves to the left until either you move the mouse again in another direction or you release the button. Move the cursor up a little bit and stop or not the character moves up until change of directions or stop!
This works however only with fixed camera controls, if you introduce a free floating camera, then all i can say is, the control scheme Drakensang uses (and others like NWN I assume) is the only way to go, and most people will end up with WSAD or gamepad, there are limits to mouse only as I said!
Certainly better than the control scheme W&G used even though it sounds like the character movement could be looking really strange. Maybe instead of having to keep the button pressed they could make that somekind of walking-mode is activated until the mouse cursor is moved onto the character.
This way it would be pretty close to point & click as I could right-click and move the cursor over whereever i want to go (if I do not have to walk around some obstacles) and the char would stop there as it reached the cursor.
Hmmm...this really sounds pretty nice. Good idea werpu.
Btw. another interesting idea to stop the endless discussions, telltale could do a small demo 2 screents, with various control schemes and then let the community decide which ones they prefer ...
As far as being immersed in a character, I never felt like I was Guybrush, Sam, Bernard, Boston, etc., but I didn't want to either. In an FPS, I can see being immersed in my character. In an adventure game, it's more like trying to guide someone else along to do the things I think will help him/her out of their predicament. The character is indepedent. He tells me, "Mmmmm, no." when I suggest he do a task he doesn't feel like doing. I like the personality of that god-like system. I am not interested in being a character, I want to move the little people around the diorama soundstage.
I couldn't agree more. Even though I love TTG, their games and staff, I think they have not yet implemented the ideal GUI in their adventure games, which, IMHO, is a point-and-click interface with a context-sensitive radial cursor, much like the one seen in Full Throttle (the "verb skull"), The Curse of Monkey Island (the "verb coin") and, more recently, A Vampyre Story (the "verb cross", proving it CAN work in a 3D environment).
The right mouse button could also get some much needed attention, serving to open the inventory screen (where you should be able to combine items), and skip whatever long conversations and painstakingly slow walks you may want to. I mean, It's not like this has been done before... am I right?
Nice idea, I never thought about an extra finger for quick escapes
But which number-keys do you use for the directions?
8 = up, 4 = left, 6 = right and 2 = down should be the default... strange position for the thumb on the 2... the "enter"-key would be much more comfortable.
W = up, A = left, D = right and "Space" = down should be comfortable too.
There is nothing to add!
I'd be surprised. Be assured that companies like EA know where to price a product to maximize profit. After a certain threshold, dropping the price decreases revenue faster than the increasing number of sales can compensate (I work in mobile telco, and I can very well observe this fact in my quarterly bonus figures
Telltale is built about episodic gaming, and if you don't like the way they're designing their games, I honestly don't see how they are competing to be your best dev team.
They have a very special place in my heart for resurrecting the adventure genre - but I do like the episodic approach, and I also like the experience, the effort and the love they put into each game.
My only gripe is the new control system, other than that, I think they're fantastic.
It's really sort of disappointing to see all the negative feedback flying around. I think this is what happens when developers (or band members) are open and talk to their fans, and that's why I've also seen, in many cases, they just stop doing so.
Constructive feedback is great, and we welcome it, but sometimes you just got to watch the way you say it if you really want to be listened. Saying "you guys don't know what you are doing, you are designing it wrong" etc, that's just not going to get anyone anywhere. We've been doing this for the past 5 years, we may not be Gods of adventure, but give us some credibility here and trust the choices we make. We are listening to you and we are discussing controls all the time. We design, we test, we try different things, and at the end, we go with what we believe it's best. It's not going to please everyone, but all these threads of "do this, do it like that, do it this way", can irk anyone really fast. Do any of you know exactly what takes to develop episodic games to be released so fast month after month? It's a brutal process, and one that we are always trying to perfect, but a month flies by FAST, and we do our best to both deliver a great game to you, and to run a business.
We have to expand, and to expand we need to go to the consoles, and to go to the consoles we have to design controls that fit all platforms, and sometimes, compromises must be made. And let me say that if the company hadn't taken these steps to expand and to grow, Monkey Island would not be happening. It's all part of the growth of a business, that we can now have 3 or 4 projects going at the same time when before it only used to be 1. We now have the development team needed to create Monkey Island because of these choices to grow.
So, do you prefer point & click over to Monkey Island? I find it hard to see the logic here.
On a different --yet related-- topic, I was the main designer for King's Quest: The Silver Lining (which is about to be released, btw :P). When we went from static screens to full 3D scrolling screens, we implemented the idea someone posted here about clicking on the edges for "continuous" walk, so that if you were traversing vertically, you could return without having to click 7000 times. That worked, although many times I wished we would just have implemented the keyboard. When having to turn your character around 180 in a couple of environments --that's where the system wasn't so good.
So, you just have to admit that Wallace & Gromit is the most cinematic game Telltale has ever made. I have never really seen any adventure game in the past that has this amount of close up cameras while you are traversing through the world. It's just amazing. The character is not always so far away, you get more personal with the characters, the camera work just immerses you in the game. It's really different! Now, there have been many ideas here about how to make it work with the mouse, and I'm sure they've been discussed here and tested, and they didn't work as well as trying the keyboard.
We cannot create different control schemes for different platforms. We don't have the capabilities for what that implies. Maybe in the future, but we'll need to grow, and to grow we need to expand, and to expand we need to try new things..... you see where this is going?
The community of adventure gamers need to get on with the wave. It's a community that is always complaining about the lack of games, about bringing the classic backs. About how they wish Sierra and LucasArt games came back, and when they do, and developers try to adjust them to the current gen of videogames, then it seems as if a lot of people in the community all prefer that the game never happened in the first place.
We are at least keeping the spirit of the adventure alive and staying truth to the roots of these games. Look at what they did to Larry. Cut us some slack here
But if you don't have the capacity to have different control schemes on different formats, then I understand that a sacrifice has to be made.
Let me ask one question - if you come up with a fully mouse driven system you're not perfectly happy with - could you include that as an undocumented feature? Maybe you'd have to enable it manually in a config file somewhere..?
That way, people could test it out and give some feedback.
Thanks for this posting.
Personally this took quite some of the grief which grew more and more away from me as i for the first time have the feeling that certain complains here are taken serious.
I do have a couple of questions, if you can answer those:
Why does TTG needs to expand and grow and up to which size? I mean at which point is it sufficient? What's TTG after? I understand that depending on your goals you need a certain size of a company and if you're smaller you just can't do certain kind of projects.
Why does it need to be cinematic? Is this something TTG wants or is it something more the sales figures dictate? I mean from my personal perspective i don't have something against a cinematic presentation but i'm also completely fine without it as long as the presentation is nice, the story is good, the riddles are well done, ... i don't need an immersive 3d environment for enjoying an adventure game.
As you brought up W&G, i agree that the immersive experience is better than in any other TTG production but the fun with exploring and trying things out was reduced significantly compared to other games as well, i simply missed the intuitive input possibility which mouse point&click offers.
In the end i think you can optimize the whole steering from both sides, either from the joypad and/or from the mouse side. It's just that with the mouse point&click your're already familiar and it's somehow closer to the sweet spot.
In the end and after sleeping a night over it i prefer a Monkey Island with a joypad control over no Monkey Island at all but it's just not the perfect experience you could have hoped for, you know?!
I also dont understand how keyboard controls are supposed to be a compromise (it aint no compromise when one side gets all and the other gets nothing) but I guess you have your reasons and maybe the growing console market is just to important to cater to the B-class copyright-infringing PC fanbase.
I like you for giving new life to adventure games and continuing / starting great game series but I´d rather have one top quality product (like S&M Seasons 1 & 2) than having 3 games which play like W&G (which wasnt a bad game but just got messed up by its controls imo).
Please dont mess THIS one up. This is the holy grail of adventure games and who knows, maybe it could be the start of a new era
It is what you make it to be. You'll find it to be perfectly fun and a perfect experience if you just move on and stop griping. I don't see what's so immersive about just the mouse, or what's so great about just the mouse. The game has the mouse for all other actions but walking. What's so IN DEPTH and amazing about walking with a mouse? I get TIRED of clicking over and over and over to move somewhere in an adventure game! MI fans are worse than Trekkies, I swear.
I'll say it again. YOU CONTROL ALL actions but walking with the mouse. That's what was shown in the recent interview with Mike Stemmle at E3.
If you get tired of clicking, I can imagine you must get *really* tired of constantly pressing keys to navigate the character
Anyway, convenience is the biggest reason people prefer point & click. When you're stuck, it's simply much less of a hassle to casually click around, trying to find out what to do, rather than manually navigating your character around for hours.
But anyway... I think everyone has realized this by now and it's not worth repeating over and over.
It's a lot more convenient in 3D to navigate with keyboard controls, no matter how you word it. I get tired as well of having to keep clicking five times before my character turns in the direction I want him to turn to.
And that constant pressing of keys isn't nearly as constant as the clicking of the mouse. Though that constant clicking comes more from a desire to get the character to move with the scrolling background, whereas with a keyboard you just press the key down until you get where you want to go.
Yeah, I shouldn't be arguing as well, but I'm just voicing my opinion.
It's a problem I had a lot in 3D adventure games, such as Broken Sword 4, Monkey Island 4, and Grim Fandango.
Actually I've had it as well with a keyboard but not as often, as that depended more on the skills of the programmer and the choppiness of the game.
I think actually, now that I consider it, I think neither point and click nor keyboard control has an advantage over the other. At least not enough for the horrible comments I've seen directed at the team so far.
Its just not fair to us, and that might sound cold, but i have no love for consoles what so ever, they are ruining gaming imo, because im most of the games now adays we get shafted, because ermm lets do a cheap port to pc.
I simply cannot understand why you cannot and will not make 2 sets of controls, it can be done in other games, and again put one version on hold. Im getting so tired of having to compromise. As the old saying goes "Either do it right! or dont do it at all".
I wanna play this game as much as anyone, i can even live with youre graphics, in that sense that the remake done by Lucas Arts looks better. But i cannot, live with the inferior Wallace and gromit controls, it removes by focus from the game to have to pause and use controls, for me that totally ruins the immersion.
Do you really thinks fans say this just to have fun or to be annoying, it really doesnt hurt to listen sometimes. Put the project on hold to 2010 if that what it takes.
I really hate Ubisoft sometimes, but atleast we got it in to their head with their 2007 mr homeless bum Sam Fisher throwing with microwaves did not work, no matter how much they thought it would, and they redid it, now for me that takes guts, to come forth listen and accept "Hey we made a mistake" we are redoing it.
So yeah we hear you, but i think its only fair you listen to fans as well. Its not like we are demanding a whole lot, simple point and click system.
Im pretty sure that most of the people here including myself, while some posts may be harsh, are posting out of love for the game, and wanting it to be as good as possible, atleast thats why i voice my concerns.
And its not like we have not given youre control scheme a try in Wallace and Gromit, and to my knowledge you are just directly important that in Monkey Island and for me that is so unacceptable.
So it would be nice to know, if you atleast are trying other way for keyboard control scheme ?
But a lot of people do find point & click a lot more convenient, and using a joypad/keyboard alters the experience.
If you prefer keyboard controls, that's great for you
EDIT - RMJ1984 - he already stated in his post that they can't afford to have different control schemes in different versions. They're a rather small company, after all. And I do appreciate (really!) that we can at least keep the cursor for some actions.
I also heard the control scheme won't be exactly the same as in W&G. Just how different it'll be remains to be seen, not much info so far.
RMJ1984 - TTG has just as much love for the game as you do. And if you think point and click is the way adventure games were meant to be, remember that most of Sierra's adventure games were controlled by keyboard alone. On second thought, that made them pretty tedious....but on the other hand with keyboard versus mouse you were less likely to fall of a cliff and die. Play Kings Quest 3 VGA to see what I mean.