Adventure games are for relaxing, in a pause manner and play with your brain, no tension, no reflexes, you save whenever you want like putting a bookmark... In this genre, no P&C, action minigames, quick time events, stealth or timed action, etc. are always subjects that brings most complains in the end. And that's because you play casually, laying around and not seated upright, hands on keyboard in a 100% FPS-tense-"fire in the hole"-way
And it's not something about computers... on Wii, a cursor enabled console... now i'm playing Broken sword (replaying), or Tunguska 2, only with the remote laying on the couch... That's a relaxing way to do it, and a casual one too. If you think about expanding your audience, the very first new customers are not GTA/FPS players but puzzle and shudoku ones... ie. I can have my parents playing adventures, because the input is so casual and easy... there is no learning in P&C... but there is when you tell them to move a character around using the stick.
Anyway... to me, and maybe just to me...playing an adventure is not like watching a movie, is = reading a book. The storytelling dont have to be like in movies, if you really want a cinematic experience then play Gears of War... movies are all about explosions, and books are all about words. And adventure games are all about words too... so I dont care about camera angles (there is not camera angles when reading a Terry Pratchett book and it's still funny as hell), and I prefer the god-like diorama layout, as when reading a book, where you are not the main character, but follow him in his adventure.
Being said that... It's not like i want P&C in Tales. It would be perfect, but I understand the actual design doesnt allow it... but I would love the possibility (and I mean choice) to play one handed-mouse only
So if it must work like WASD, a mouse only control could be like something like... press 2ºbutton and drag up/left/down/right like if WASD were pressed. The farther i drag up the faster my character goes up (simulating a joystick). If you think it's tiresome to maintain pressed the 2ºbutton while dragging, then lets do it with changing states/verbs. Click 2ºbutton and you're in walk to mode... now moving cursor up/left/down/right is like pressing WASD... you click 2º again and you go back to look at mode... the cursor now is free to move and select things on-screen. It's just a wrapper above the WASD direct controls.
They've said constantly that the controls will be slightly different than W&G.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
take it in... wait for a demo... there are lots of pages of people saying the same thing... most people at telltale can read a web page... lots of us have read this forum... you're unhappy... we love our fans... lets talk again after we've all gotten a chance to try the game out
take it in... wait for a demo... there are lots of pages of people saying the same thing... most people at telltale can read a web page... lots of us have read this forum... you're unhappy... we love our fans... lets talk again after we've all gotten a chance to try the game out
In other words, you don't care whether we like the controls or not, you will continue to use them anyway... thanks.
We certainly do care! If a significant amount of the people who played W&G didn't like the controls, I'm sure we would do something completely different.
We certainly do care! If a significant amount of the people who played W&G didn't like the controls, I'm sure we would do something completely different.
define what would be the significant amount?
i have seen plenty of rage threads about the controls of W&G =/
But mouse controls could be possible in these games, too - at least the two W&G games so far. I didn't see anything in them that would make it impossible to have mouse controls - it would be harder to implement than direct control, but I'm certain it would not be impossible.
I'm not against this cinematic thing they have going, it's pretty cool. I just think it would be possible to have mouse controls, even if it might be a bit harder to do correctly.
I realize Telltale doesn't have the resources to implement various control schemes, though - but if they did, I'm sure it would be fully possible.
Know what I was just thinking about... when using, say, the web browser on wii, or the Mii channel, you can hold down the B button and drag the cursor to scroll around the screen. That's essentially converting pure cursor movement into an analog directional control, which could work pretty smoothly for controlling a character.
We certainly do care! If a significant amount of the people who played W&G didn't like the controls, I'm sure we would do something completely different.
Are you doing surveys, focus groups, or something else to determine what people really want? I seem to recall being asked to take a survey after I purchased the first Sam and Max season.
If you are unsatisfied with the controllers, don't buy the next game. If MI would get lower sales than for example S&M, that would send a clear and distinct message. Money talks. Sadly I pre-ordered the whole first season of W&G so my discontent won't show in the sales.
If you are unsatisfied with the controllers, don't buy the next game. If MI would get lower sales than for example S&M, that would send a clear and distinct message. Money talks. Sadly I pre-ordered the whole first season of W&G so my discontent won't show in the sales.
seriously?
You have got to be the biggest loser ever
Do controls for every game revolve around your life?
Guys .. Jake said the controls arent final
And whatever the controls.. im sure we'll get used to it
Forums are not a representative sample. The average consumer does not join a forum to post that they had a satisfactory experience with a product.
I think it's not wise saying so as this is something what can frustrate people and gives them the feeling of beeing ignored after taking the time of stating their concerns here.
@Bloody_Eugene
I know what you mean but you are wrong with your assumption due to that your example does not work here.
It's pretty obvious that we won't get a 2d adventure. What we also won't get is a more easy to click on 3d environment as they want to take make it feel more cinematic and with lot's of cuts, different camera positions/angles. It's a seperate discussion if all this is needed at all but i think it's pretty safe that's what we'll get and beeing objective this also has it's advantages as it can make you feeling more in the game.
Anyway what i wanted to say is that things get a bit more complicate due to this on the steering front as you have to take care of not loosing contact during different cuts with different positions and angles or how to deal with situations where your character isn't fully visible. I guess a good example is steering your character in the corridor in W&G101. This isn't doable the way you suggested. It either needs some automated mode a character enters until he reaches a certain position in the new room or it needs some additional information&input for seperating and redefining the steering information.
Whilst i agree that this sucks with a mouse&keyboard combination, this is pretty intuitive and enjoyable with a controller, also drawing you from a third person more torwards the character. Actually it's pretty fun doing turns this way or small adjustments into this or another direction. How many 360° spins Wallace can take and watching his ears whilst doing so. :O)
I strongly suggest taking some time and playing with a controller more than just once through such situations. I think you'll get the hang of it then. It really would needs a well designed mouse steering system which works universal to get the same comfort a controller offers here.
The more you test and swap between traditional mouse steered 3d adventures (a.o. i did this with certain scenes in Jack Keane) and a controller steered 3d adventure like W&G the better you feel about the controller steering in there. You're loosing less contact to the game and the character this way and steering can be more precise and a lot more fun. It's also more comfortable because steering with the analog joystick is less straining than moving the mouse all the time. Permanent pressure on the small joystick and direction changes felt less irksome than larger mouse movements to me. It brings back a bit of the times when a Competition Pro was resting on your lap. I meanwhile really like it!
The major drawback i again and again experienced is the hotspot selection which simply needs to be improved. Here mouse point&click beats the current implementation plus if feels more free as you're not attached to a character this much.
I guess everyone seriously interested in W&G or Monkey Island, if it turns out to be a compareable solution, should try/buy a controller, the XBox360 controller is pretty good, at least for my hands, and it's worth it. Don't remove the controller steering! ;O)
As a final note and after spending some time on this i would say that in adventures i enjoy a traditional mouse point&click as well as a direct controller steering, but please with a improved hotspot selection. Hard to say what's best then, as both have their pros and cons, it depends on the game. What i can't stand is a combined keyboard&mouse steering.
Are you doing surveys, focus groups, or something else to determine what people really want?
This is what I would also be interested in. - In case that Telltale just looks at the number of copies sold, let's say compared to Sam & Max, then I could imagine that W&G makes quite some good revenue and there are a lot of pre-orders for ToMI already. - But this is very likely because folks love W&G, worship Monkey Island, and there are not too many alternatives for adventure gamers in general; but not because the big majority of customers is happy with the controls.
I have always been fond of my Logitech rumblepad 2... although I do sometime wish it had about two more buttons reachable by the right thumb... but not very many controllers do have that.
I have always been fond of my Logitech rumblepad 2... although I do sometime wish it had about two more buttons reachable by the right thumb... but not very many controllers do have that.
Again all I can say is if you did not like the mouse+keyboard controls, give a gamepad on a pc a try.... It makes a huge difference, at least it did for me.
Dont you think it feels strange to sit in front of a PC-display with a gamepad in hand ? Thats the same as playing with a mouse on consoles (even though I´d sometimes love to be able to do that).
Maybe once PS3 and XBOX360 have their motion-controllers available they can go back to point & click. I guess if it was only about making a Wii-version that would be no problem at all as the Wii-controller allows a comfortable play of point & click games.
Again all I can say is if you did not like the mouse+keyboard controls, give a gamepad on a pc a try.... It makes a huge difference, at least it did for me.
yeah seems like the only way to at least be happy playing TTG's new approach to their games is to like fork an extra $20AU+ for a cheap joypad to play on PC
on top of the game price =\
Dont you think it feels strange to sit in front of a PC-display with a gamepad in hand ? Thats the same as playing with a mouse on consoles (even though I´d sometimes love to be able to do that).
Actually it feels better if you sit in a couch of sofa with the notebook computer in front of you than having the mouse and a monitor on a desk!
;-)
Seriously, I loved it to play it that way!
Besides that I am used to a gamepad on a computer, almost every third person 3d title coming out nowadays enforces such controls (they mostly have a mouse option but in most cases it does not work out as well as a gamepad, especially Dreamfall which is probably the prime example of having to buy a gamepad for certain games)
yeah seems like the only way to at least be happy playing TTG's new approach to their games is to like fork an extra $20AU+ for a cheap joypad to play on PC
on top of the game price =\
All I can say is better get the xbox gamepad, Microsoft is determined to make it the standard for the PC as well, almost every Games for Windows Title has to support it!
Besides that it is a very good gamepad and very reliable!
yeah seems like the only way to at least be happy playing TTG's new approach to their games is to like fork an extra $20AU+ for a cheap joypad to play on PC
on top of the game price =\
As the consoles are the primary platform now for most games, I think it's quite sensible to think in a PC + gamepad combo. And werpu is right that most third person games are a pain in the ass with the mouse - if I played more than one of them, I'd definitely have bought a controller already. I may still do so for W&G, ToMI and for replaying Dreamfall
All I can say is better get the xbox gamepad, Microsoft is determined to make it the standard for the PC as well, almost every Games for Windows Title has to support it!
Besides that it is a very good gamepad and very reliable!
oh man.......that sucks
just slowly destroy the gap that made PCs and consoles so different
Again all I can say is if you did not like the mouse+keyboard controls, give a gamepad on a pc a try.... It makes a huge difference, at least it did for me.
Yeah the fact is although you might not like the keyboard/mouse combo for PC the gamepad controls work really well.. So if you are so worried about the controls and it ruining the experience for you, why wouldn't you buy one and use it instead?
Controller will never win on the majority of pc's, because you cannot deny that fact that controllers are inferior controle scheme to mouse and keyboard, why else do most console games have autoaim? or some other kind of aim assistance.
Why dont all games allow people to play against each other and or compente in online games / tournaments.
But as others already have said the problem with the current controls atm in W&G is one the are buggy beyond belief, you get stuck, they walk the wrong way alot, especially when enteren another screen.
When you are constantly sitting and clicking with you mouse, and realizing you have to use keyboard, and cannot adapt, because its doesnt feel right, imo that drags away from the immersion, its like someone coming and tapping you on the shoulders every 5min, with some boring joke.
Controls are such a important and fundamental part of any game, no matter how good sound, graphics and gameplay are, the game doesnt wont work without a good control system.
And tbh Telltale should be very happy that they are allowed to run with their current graphics, any other game that tries that, get bashed so hard back to 1990, when they use older / old graphics.
But from what i hear, there is still hope, but i most say if i find out its a 100% direct copy of the W&G control system, im done.
So really hope there is going some time into making it much MUCH better, ill even happly wait for 1 or 2 months more while you improve the control system. Being on time always like EA and making bad games, is not a good trend, im kinda fan of the Blizzard, Valve approach, "When its done"
Again a mouse / Keyboard is superior. Its better we get rid of the controller, than mouse / keyboard.
Controller will never win on the majority of pc's, because you cannot deny that fact that controllers are inferior controle scheme to mouse and keyboard, why else do most console games have autoaim? or some other kind of aim assistance.
You are talking about first person perspective, I am talking about third person especially if you have a free floating camera the gamepad wins. In first person the mouse+wsad combo clearly wins!
It really depends on the type of game which controller works out best!
Do controls for every game revolve around your life?
Guys .. Jake said the controls arent final
And whatever the controls.. im sure we'll get used to it
I am a loser because I might not buy TMI? Would I also be a loser if I bought a Ford, and felt that the steering was off and the next car I bought was anything but a Ford? It is every consumers right to not have to buy anything. We show with our wallet that we are unsatisfied. And this is what I was saying. And for that I am a loser? I am curious, how did you come to such conclusion?
I tested one ep of S&M to see if it was up to my standard. Since it was, I bought the whole season. After that I bought the second season right of the bat. After that I bought W&G thinking that it would be the same, just with W&G humour. And I was disappointed, since it wasn't up to pair to what I had in mind. Had I just bought one ep, I wouldn't have bought the rest of the season. And this, of course, makes me cautious to buy from telltale again without testing.
I think that keyboard-controls are clumsy and awkward. For me, it takes away some of the fun with the game. Especially since I feel that it wasn't necessary. I am pretty sure that with some thinking outside the box they could have solved their problems with "free flowing" camera and still have (in my opinion) good controls.
Also, this adapt to consoles because that is where the gaming market are, are you really sure that YOUR market are there? Civ recently debuted on consoles, but they have nowhere near the sales they have on PCs. I wouldn't be surprised if your biggest market are (and will continue to be) on PC.
Even The Secret of Monkey Island supports joypads.
Nobody here has requested that ToMI should not support joypads. Many customers just like to get a choice, like in SoMI.
By the way, what I noticed in the second episode of W&G is that there often in fact is a way to walk around without using the keyboard: If you click on a staircase in the house, Wallace (or Gromit) walks up. If you click on any doorknob, the character walks to the door, opens it, and the screen changes to the new scene. - What I am trying to say is that if the designers would just place a few more dummy hot spots of this type, it should be possible to fully steer the character with the mouse without any need to change the general concept.
Such dummy hot spots could be duct covers on the street, pictures on the walls, some trash floating around in the water, etc. You just need to make sure to make the grid of these items dense enough, so there are always some of them visible in the actual view. - And if this should not work once or twice during the game, I would not even mind using the keyboard to get out of such a screen, just as I use the keyboard for Sam & Max when playing those (completely unnecessary) "action sequences". - Really!
I tested one ep of S&M to see if it was up to my standard. Since it was, I bought the whole season. After that I bought the second season right of the bat. After that I bought W&G thinking that it would be the same, just with W&G humour. And I was disappointed, since it wasn't up to pair to what I had in mind. Had I just bought one ep, I wouldn't have bought the rest of the season. And this, of course, makes me cautious to buy from telltale again without testing.
Similar here. I was skeptical about S&M at first, so i played the demo and later bought each season because i loved it.
Then I tried the W&G Demo (three times now with some time distance, i really tried to get used to it) and found the look and feel too annoying. I'll probably not play W&G ever, although i almost bought it blindly because of my good experiences with S&M.
I will buy S&M Season 3 if it has the classic controls and style. If they changed, i will play the demo and see if it still is the kind of game i like to play.
Same for ToMI. I almost bought it blindly after reading the press release, but then i remembered W&G and now i am glad i took a look into the forum first, so i can wait for the demo.
From my experience with S&M I thought i would probably buy any similar telltale game, and anticipated a future full of new and fun games. I thought of you as the people who make the kind of games that i like to play. You got that absolutely right with S&M and i would have been satisfied with more games based on the same style.
Now everything seems to have changed and i am scared of losing something i love. It is like you brought my loved Point+Click Adventure genre back to life and now you are killing it again because you changed your mind.
Maybe it hurts so much, because it is like Deja Vu. I wonder when you'll start making star wars games
I'd like to start this post with a forward; this isn't a childish cry, this is what I'm going to do and what happened to me.
I'm glad Monkey Island isn't dead but I'll be pirating the game unless the point and click interface is returned. I miss Guybrush, but I honestly wasted my money on Wallace and Grommit having to deal with the awful control system. As I see it, you owe me a few games with miserable control systems before I hand over more money.
The irony was getting on to this website today, having my first question be "Will Monkey Island have the crap controls of Wallace & Grommit?" and having the answer be yes. Why? Because you dismissed you're most prevalent source of feedback as whiners and moved on. Whatever, I've seen this action by a company before.
I never really enjoyed the episodic content concept, but I adjusted and enjoyed the prolonged enjoyment of each series of games. Until this bastardization of control systems I began to grow attached to this company. My loyalty is to good games, and I can't help my nostalgic interest in games that could be considered dead. However, my nostalgia isn't a source of profit.
I'm also not a forum reader so this is where I end everything. I'll pirate the first in the series, if the control system is still a joke I won't pay more money over to a pack of fools who think they know better. Point and clicks have been around before telltale and they'll be around after; you're no revolutionaries, stop pretending.
Sorry guys, you started out great. Shame you got lazy.
EDIT:
My original post hasn't changed but after reading the 18 pages of posts, focusing heavily on the feedback I had to add some more.
Broken Sword 4 accomplished what your company has failed to do. I'd honestly like to hear what your feedback was on their control system versus your own. They have multiple camera angles in any given environment, but a player can move simply between them. It's simple, it works, it keeps people happy. Retaliating because your unanimous concept was rejected by the vocal minority is a little too calloused. I don't want to rely on mods to play point and clicks, which it will probably come to (maybe it has already) but if it does point me to the site.
I like these games, simple and fun puzzles with fun stories but the control system weighted controls vs enjoyment... this never should have existed. For me, controls won. Why? The amount of times I rolled my eyes at Wallace running around retardedly in directions I never intended because I had to use WASD.
The only reason I ever posted on the forums initially is to complain about this control change. Your company provides amazing feedback. However, I played Demigod recently and it's still the best company as far as feedback goes. Talking directly to developers to get your points across is far more gratifying than posting on a forum and hoping you're addressed. Only reason I say this is because someone referred to telltale as being the best they have seen. You may be a 10/10 company in my opinion but that doesn't make you the best :P
There is no malice intended in my post; only my belief that the new control direction takes a lot of my enjoyment. It has taken enough to make me realize I don't want to pay for it. With Sam & Max, Bone, Strongbad I got games I LOVED! I'm simply some guy who has posted a handful of responses in the hopes of making a positive change to a company that may have a future.
I'd like to start this post with a forward; this isn't a childish cry, this is what I'm going to do and what happened to me.
I'm glad Monkey Island isn't dead but I'll be pirating the game unless the point and click interface is returned. I miss Guybrush, but I honestly wasted my money on Wallace and Grommit having to deal with the awful control system. As I see it, you owe me a few games with miserable control systems before I hand over more money.
The irony was getting on to this website today, having my first question be "Will Monkey Island have the crap controls of Wallace & Grommit?" and having the answer be yes. Why? Because you dismissed you're most prevalent source of feedback as whiners and moved on. Whatever, I've seen this action by a company before.
I never really enjoyed the episodic content concept, but I adjusted and enjoyed the prolonged enjoyment of each series of games. Until this bastardization of control systems I began to grow attached to this company. My loyalty is to good games, and I can't help my nostalgic interest in games that could be considered dead. However, my nostalgia isn't a source of profit.
I'm also not a forum reader so this is where I end everything. I'll pirate the first in the series, if the control system is still a joke I won't pay more money over to a pack of fools who think they know better. Point and clicks have been around before telltale and they'll be around after; you're no revolutionaries, stop pretending.
Sorry guys, you started out great. Shame you got lazy.
Why not just try the demo rather than steal the game?
Telltale, I hope your listening to your customers, because if you don't at least put the option for mouse controls, then you are proving that you have your ears closed to a significant portion of your fans.
Why not just try the demo rather than steal the game?
Good point. It depends on which I see released first. At the end of the day I LOVE Monkey Island, so whichever is released first is what I want to try.
At least if I pirate it I get the full picture on what the product is.
...But as others already have said the problem with the current controls atm in W&G is one the are buggy beyond belief, you get stuck, they walk the wrong way alot, especially when enteren another screen...
Come on, there are a few scenes were it's not working this well but for the majority it works very well.
The silver bullet might be offering both, a nice controller steering and a traditional mouse point&click (if the scenes allow it :O/) so that everyone is free to choose. Maybe this will show up later on but for now the controller really isn't that bad but it can be hard braking with your habits.
Comments
Adventure games are for relaxing, in a pause manner and play with your brain, no tension, no reflexes, you save whenever you want like putting a bookmark... In this genre, no P&C, action minigames, quick time events, stealth or timed action, etc. are always subjects that brings most complains in the end. And that's because you play casually, laying around and not seated upright, hands on keyboard in a 100% FPS-tense-"fire in the hole"-way
And it's not something about computers... on Wii, a cursor enabled console... now i'm playing Broken sword (replaying), or Tunguska 2, only with the remote laying on the couch... That's a relaxing way to do it, and a casual one too. If you think about expanding your audience, the very first new customers are not GTA/FPS players but puzzle and shudoku ones... ie. I can have my parents playing adventures, because the input is so casual and easy... there is no learning in P&C... but there is when you tell them to move a character around using the stick.
Anyway... to me, and maybe just to me...playing an adventure is not like watching a movie, is = reading a book. The storytelling dont have to be like in movies, if you really want a cinematic experience then play Gears of War... movies are all about explosions, and books are all about words. And adventure games are all about words too... so I dont care about camera angles (there is not camera angles when reading a Terry Pratchett book and it's still funny as hell), and I prefer the god-like diorama layout, as when reading a book, where you are not the main character, but follow him in his adventure.
Being said that... It's not like i want P&C in Tales. It would be perfect, but I understand the actual design doesnt allow it... but I would love the possibility (and I mean choice) to play one handed-mouse only
So if it must work like WASD, a mouse only control could be like something like... press 2ºbutton and drag up/left/down/right like if WASD were pressed. The farther i drag up the faster my character goes up (simulating a joystick). If you think it's tiresome to maintain pressed the 2ºbutton while dragging, then lets do it with changing states/verbs. Click 2ºbutton and you're in walk to mode... now moving cursor up/left/down/right is like pressing WASD... you click 2º again and you go back to look at mode... the cursor now is free to move and select things on-screen. It's just a wrapper above the WASD direct controls.
PS. oh my, I wrote too much again...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
take it in... wait for a demo... there are lots of pages of people saying the same thing... most people at telltale can read a web page... lots of us have read this forum... you're unhappy... we love our fans... lets talk again after we've all gotten a chance to try the game out
I Trust U
We certainly do care! If a significant amount of the people who played W&G didn't like the controls, I'm sure we would do something completely different.
define what would be the significant amount?
i have seen plenty of rage threads about the controls of W&G =/
Forums are not a representative sample. The average consumer does not join a forum to post that they had a satisfactory experience with a product.
guess we are at a stalemate now
I'm not against this cinematic thing they have going, it's pretty cool. I just think it would be possible to have mouse controls, even if it might be a bit harder to do correctly.
I realize Telltale doesn't have the resources to implement various control schemes, though - but if they did, I'm sure it would be fully possible.
Are you doing surveys, focus groups, or something else to determine what people really want? I seem to recall being asked to take a survey after I purchased the first Sam and Max season.
seriously?
You have got to be the biggest loser ever
Do controls for every game revolve around your life?
Guys .. Jake said the controls arent final
And whatever the controls.. im sure we'll get used to it
I think it's not wise saying so as this is something what can frustrate people and gives them the feeling of beeing ignored after taking the time of stating their concerns here.
@Bloody_Eugene
I know what you mean but you are wrong with your assumption due to that your example does not work here.
It's pretty obvious that we won't get a 2d adventure. What we also won't get is a more easy to click on 3d environment as they want to take make it feel more cinematic and with lot's of cuts, different camera positions/angles. It's a seperate discussion if all this is needed at all but i think it's pretty safe that's what we'll get and beeing objective this also has it's advantages as it can make you feeling more in the game.
Anyway what i wanted to say is that things get a bit more complicate due to this on the steering front as you have to take care of not loosing contact during different cuts with different positions and angles or how to deal with situations where your character isn't fully visible. I guess a good example is steering your character in the corridor in W&G101. This isn't doable the way you suggested. It either needs some automated mode a character enters until he reaches a certain position in the new room or it needs some additional information&input for seperating and redefining the steering information.
Whilst i agree that this sucks with a mouse&keyboard combination, this is pretty intuitive and enjoyable with a controller, also drawing you from a third person more torwards the character. Actually it's pretty fun doing turns this way or small adjustments into this or another direction. How many 360° spins Wallace can take and watching his ears whilst doing so. :O)
I strongly suggest taking some time and playing with a controller more than just once through such situations. I think you'll get the hang of it then. It really would needs a well designed mouse steering system which works universal to get the same comfort a controller offers here.
The more you test and swap between traditional mouse steered 3d adventures (a.o. i did this with certain scenes in Jack Keane) and a controller steered 3d adventure like W&G the better you feel about the controller steering in there. You're loosing less contact to the game and the character this way and steering can be more precise and a lot more fun. It's also more comfortable because steering with the analog joystick is less straining than moving the mouse all the time. Permanent pressure on the small joystick and direction changes felt less irksome than larger mouse movements to me. It brings back a bit of the times when a Competition Pro was resting on your lap. I meanwhile really like it!
The major drawback i again and again experienced is the hotspot selection which simply needs to be improved. Here mouse point&click beats the current implementation plus if feels more free as you're not attached to a character this much.
I guess everyone seriously interested in W&G or Monkey Island, if it turns out to be a compareable solution, should try/buy a controller, the XBox360 controller is pretty good, at least for my hands, and it's worth it. Don't remove the controller steering! ;O)
As a final note and after spending some time on this i would say that in adventures i enjoy a traditional mouse point&click as well as a direct controller steering, but please with a improved hotspot selection. Hard to say what's best then, as both have their pros and cons, it depends on the game. What i can't stand is a combined keyboard&mouse steering.
Again all I can say is if you did not like the mouse+keyboard controls, give a gamepad on a pc a try.... It makes a huge difference, at least it did for me.
Maybe once PS3 and XBOX360 have their motion-controllers available they can go back to point & click. I guess if it was only about making a Wii-version that would be no problem at all as the Wii-controller allows a comfortable play of point & click games.
yeah seems like the only way to at least be happy playing TTG's new approach to their games is to like fork an extra $20AU+ for a cheap joypad to play on PC
on top of the game price =\
;-)
Seriously, I loved it to play it that way!
Besides that I am used to a gamepad on a computer, almost every third person 3d title coming out nowadays enforces such controls (they mostly have a mouse option but in most cases it does not work out as well as a gamepad, especially Dreamfall which is probably the prime example of having to buy a gamepad for certain games)
All I can say is better get the xbox gamepad, Microsoft is determined to make it the standard for the PC as well, almost every Games for Windows Title has to support it!
Besides that it is a very good gamepad and very reliable!
As the consoles are the primary platform now for most games, I think it's quite sensible to think in a PC + gamepad combo. And werpu is right that most third person games are a pain in the ass with the mouse - if I played more than one of them, I'd definitely have bought a controller already. I may still do so for W&G, ToMI and for replaying Dreamfall
oh man.......that sucks
just slowly destroy the gap that made PCs and consoles so different
Yeah the fact is although you might not like the keyboard/mouse combo for PC the gamepad controls work really well.. So if you are so worried about the controls and it ruining the experience for you, why wouldn't you buy one and use it instead?
Why dont all games allow people to play against each other and or compente in online games / tournaments.
But as others already have said the problem with the current controls atm in W&G is one the are buggy beyond belief, you get stuck, they walk the wrong way alot, especially when enteren another screen.
When you are constantly sitting and clicking with you mouse, and realizing you have to use keyboard, and cannot adapt, because its doesnt feel right, imo that drags away from the immersion, its like someone coming and tapping you on the shoulders every 5min, with some boring joke.
Controls are such a important and fundamental part of any game, no matter how good sound, graphics and gameplay are, the game doesnt wont work without a good control system.
And tbh Telltale should be very happy that they are allowed to run with their current graphics, any other game that tries that, get bashed so hard back to 1990, when they use older / old graphics.
But from what i hear, there is still hope, but i most say if i find out its a 100% direct copy of the W&G control system, im done.
So really hope there is going some time into making it much MUCH better, ill even happly wait for 1 or 2 months more while you improve the control system. Being on time always like EA and making bad games, is not a good trend, im kinda fan of the Blizzard, Valve approach, "When its done"
Again a mouse / Keyboard is superior. Its better we get rid of the controller, than mouse / keyboard.
You are talking about first person perspective, I am talking about third person especially if you have a free floating camera the gamepad wins. In first person the mouse+wsad combo clearly wins!
It really depends on the type of game which controller works out best!
I am a loser because I might not buy TMI? Would I also be a loser if I bought a Ford, and felt that the steering was off and the next car I bought was anything but a Ford? It is every consumers right to not have to buy anything. We show with our wallet that we are unsatisfied. And this is what I was saying. And for that I am a loser? I am curious, how did you come to such conclusion?
I tested one ep of S&M to see if it was up to my standard. Since it was, I bought the whole season. After that I bought the second season right of the bat. After that I bought W&G thinking that it would be the same, just with W&G humour. And I was disappointed, since it wasn't up to pair to what I had in mind. Had I just bought one ep, I wouldn't have bought the rest of the season. And this, of course, makes me cautious to buy from telltale again without testing.
I think that keyboard-controls are clumsy and awkward. For me, it takes away some of the fun with the game. Especially since I feel that it wasn't necessary. I am pretty sure that with some thinking outside the box they could have solved their problems with "free flowing" camera and still have (in my opinion) good controls.
Also, this adapt to consoles because that is where the gaming market are, are you really sure that YOUR market are there? Civ recently debuted on consoles, but they have nowhere near the sales they have on PCs. I wouldn't be surprised if your biggest market are (and will continue to be) on PC.
By the way, what I noticed in the second episode of W&G is that there often in fact is a way to walk around without using the keyboard: If you click on a staircase in the house, Wallace (or Gromit) walks up. If you click on any doorknob, the character walks to the door, opens it, and the screen changes to the new scene. - What I am trying to say is that if the designers would just place a few more dummy hot spots of this type, it should be possible to fully steer the character with the mouse without any need to change the general concept.
Such dummy hot spots could be duct covers on the street, pictures on the walls, some trash floating around in the water, etc. You just need to make sure to make the grid of these items dense enough, so there are always some of them visible in the actual view. - And if this should not work once or twice during the game, I would not even mind using the keyboard to get out of such a screen, just as I use the keyboard for Sam & Max when playing those (completely unnecessary) "action sequences". - Really!
Similar here. I was skeptical about S&M at first, so i played the demo and later bought each season because i loved it.
Then I tried the W&G Demo (three times now with some time distance, i really tried to get used to it) and found the look and feel too annoying. I'll probably not play W&G ever, although i almost bought it blindly because of my good experiences with S&M.
I will buy S&M Season 3 if it has the classic controls and style. If they changed, i will play the demo and see if it still is the kind of game i like to play.
Same for ToMI. I almost bought it blindly after reading the press release, but then i remembered W&G and now i am glad i took a look into the forum first, so i can wait for the demo.
From my experience with S&M I thought i would probably buy any similar telltale game, and anticipated a future full of new and fun games. I thought of you as the people who make the kind of games that i like to play. You got that absolutely right with S&M and i would have been satisfied with more games based on the same style.
Now everything seems to have changed and i am scared of losing something i love. It is like you brought my loved Point+Click Adventure genre back to life and now you are killing it again because you changed your mind.
Maybe it hurts so much, because it is like Deja Vu. I wonder when you'll start making star wars games
I'm glad Monkey Island isn't dead but I'll be pirating the game unless the point and click interface is returned. I miss Guybrush, but I honestly wasted my money on Wallace and Grommit having to deal with the awful control system. As I see it, you owe me a few games with miserable control systems before I hand over more money.
The irony was getting on to this website today, having my first question be "Will Monkey Island have the crap controls of Wallace & Grommit?" and having the answer be yes. Why? Because you dismissed you're most prevalent source of feedback as whiners and moved on. Whatever, I've seen this action by a company before.
I never really enjoyed the episodic content concept, but I adjusted and enjoyed the prolonged enjoyment of each series of games. Until this bastardization of control systems I began to grow attached to this company. My loyalty is to good games, and I can't help my nostalgic interest in games that could be considered dead. However, my nostalgia isn't a source of profit.
I'm also not a forum reader so this is where I end everything. I'll pirate the first in the series, if the control system is still a joke I won't pay more money over to a pack of fools who think they know better. Point and clicks have been around before telltale and they'll be around after; you're no revolutionaries, stop pretending.
Sorry guys, you started out great. Shame you got lazy.
EDIT:
My original post hasn't changed but after reading the 18 pages of posts, focusing heavily on the feedback I had to add some more.
Broken Sword 4 accomplished what your company has failed to do. I'd honestly like to hear what your feedback was on their control system versus your own. They have multiple camera angles in any given environment, but a player can move simply between them. It's simple, it works, it keeps people happy. Retaliating because your unanimous concept was rejected by the vocal minority is a little too calloused. I don't want to rely on mods to play point and clicks, which it will probably come to (maybe it has already) but if it does point me to the site.
I like these games, simple and fun puzzles with fun stories but the control system weighted controls vs enjoyment... this never should have existed. For me, controls won. Why? The amount of times I rolled my eyes at Wallace running around retardedly in directions I never intended because I had to use WASD.
The only reason I ever posted on the forums initially is to complain about this control change. Your company provides amazing feedback. However, I played Demigod recently and it's still the best company as far as feedback goes. Talking directly to developers to get your points across is far more gratifying than posting on a forum and hoping you're addressed. Only reason I say this is because someone referred to telltale as being the best they have seen. You may be a 10/10 company in my opinion but that doesn't make you the best :P
There is no malice intended in my post; only my belief that the new control direction takes a lot of my enjoyment. It has taken enough to make me realize I don't want to pay for it. With Sam & Max, Bone, Strongbad I got games I LOVED! I'm simply some guy who has posted a handful of responses in the hopes of making a positive change to a company that may have a future.
Why not just try the demo rather than steal the game?
Good point. It depends on which I see released first. At the end of the day I LOVE Monkey Island, so whichever is released first is what I want to try.
At least if I pirate it I get the full picture on what the product is.
And if everyone did that, there would be no more Monkey Island (or any other game) ever.
Come on, there are a few scenes were it's not working this well but for the majority it works very well.
The silver bullet might be offering both, a nice controller steering and a traditional mouse point&click (if the scenes allow it :O/) so that everyone is free to choose. Maybe this will show up later on but for now the controller really isn't that bad but it can be hard braking with your habits.