I understand you guys, I also dislike the keyboard controls...
BUT (And is a big one)
It will never spoil the experience of a GA game.... it just can't, because a GA is not about the controls, heck, is not even about any sort of gameplay.... is about the story, the dialogs, the fun and the puzzles....
Grim Fandango would have NOT been better, or worse, with a point&click control scheme.... would have been the same awesomely written and amazingly designed game.....
I'm not exactly worried about this, and the people who say "I won't play any keyboard driven game" should think about their priorities again...
Well. I finished any Lucas Arts adventure but while I enjoyed the story of Grim Fandango I uninstalled the game halfway through because I could not stand the controls any longer.
Great controls dont turn a bad game into a joyful experience but bad controls can ruin a good game, at least for me.
Great controls dont turn a bad game into a joyful experience but bad controls can ruin a good game, at least for me.
While this is true, calling the W&G style controls bad is both subjective and a stretch. The only real issue with those controls is that they are not standardized across the industry for this gametype, while point and click were.
This seems like a minor issue, afterall good controls will always be easy to use even if they are not standard, right?
Well... not really.
People are extremely resistant to change, they won't change to something new as long as the old one still works fine. In a way that is sensible, as it means that you'll change when you're sure the new method is indeed superior and well implemented.
It does not justify however, that you call the new method bad when it isn't.
I'll give you an example, I was a beta tester on the indie RTS Multiwinia, and during most of it the controls were very left mouse button centric (i.e. you selected and ordered units with the left mouse button), as opposed to the more standard left mouse select/right mouse order.
For this particular game, it worked really well as it allowed you to do pretty much anything using just the mouse + WASD for camera movement.
However, about one month before release the game suffered a massive control redesign because previewers were screwing up immensely for the single reason the controls were not what they expected them to be. This demanded for the basic controls to require expansion too, and now you also need the shift key to do stuff you could previously do with a mouse click.
The new controls in that game have their advantages, and being more standard mean it's easier for people to pick up. However to this day I believe the initial controls to be a lot more fluid.
I played Grim Fandango, and EMI, and Wallace and Gromit. I enjoyed each and everyone one of them. I even played and enjoyed games with far worse controls. I don't see why ToMI would be any different.
The system works. It's not perfect but it works. Maybe you should try to set aside your pre-conceptions on how the game should be controlled and actually try to give it a chance.
Having played some of Fright of the Bumblebees (finally), I can now say that everybody treating that control scheme as the end of the world is bonkers. Bonkers, I say! Did the Grim Fandango/EMI controls stink? Absolutely (although anybody who skipped either game because of the controls is still missing out), but not because D-button controls are inherently the spawn of Satan - it was because it was too damn tedious and fiddly to get Manny/Guybrush to find and interact with the object or person you wanted. As long as we can still point-and-click to talk to, pick up, push, stab or chew things and people, WASD movement isn't a big deal (and indeed, can pay off on the artistic side of things, as multiple TTG reps have said).
It really is a shame, when companies goes down this ignore path, because they are on the consoles, then we have to suffer with so bad controls, that it ruins the immersion and the game.
I wont support games with inferior controls, we need the same or evolution or deevolution.
Just a shame when a company with their big ego cant see when stuff doesnt work, so either stop making youre games to consoles, or implement both type of control schemes.
I couldn't agree more.
Keyboard control doesn't add ANYTHING to the experience, use EITHER keyboard OR mouse. NOT both, it's not a TPP action game with camera fixed behind the character's back.
People have already suggested how to implement point 'n' click control scheme, maybe Telltale should stop shoving solutions created with consoles in mind down PC owners' throats and actually listen.
It really is a shame, when companies goes down this ignore path, because they are on the consoles, then we have to suffer with so bad controls, that it ruins the immersion and the game.
Having played The Last Resort, I'm slowly coming around to the control system. They're not bad controls, you just have to spend money and buy a gamepad to appreciate them in their own right.
My only real problem with them is that I preferred the old-style Click to Move. It gives you a better feeling of being in control than the pad does.
For example, it's especially grating when there's a lot of active items near you, and you spend most of the time constantly cycling between them to get the one you want. (Why isn't the button for that on the shoulder buttons by the way? It should be.)
Yes, I know you could just put the pad down and pick up the mouse to select the one you want, but that kind of defeats the point of switching away from the mouse as a means of control in the first place...
*Will try playing the next Wallace and Grommit with his left hand on the pad and right hand on the mouse, to see if that's any better*
Screw this, they obviously don't care, even when I'm not the only one saying they'll never get a penny out of me ever again.
Which means they can afford to lose us.
Which means we've supported them enough so they are able to stand firm in the gaming business.
* * * * *
You know, if you like an upcoming real band, not a marketing toy, you should support them. If you don't, they'll lose their contract, and never release another album. That is bad.
However, if that band is already well established, not buying every album doesn't reall y hurt them. Apparently, even Bruce Dickinson, realizing that most fans didn't know the songs from 'Dance of Death', addressed the audience, telling them that if they can't buy the album, at least download the thing, so they know the songs.
* * * * *
It seems Telltale is reaching Iron Maiden status.
Yes, I am implying it. And I'll do it.
Because although I support quality products, I'll refuse to pay for a faulty one.
Now that I may have stirred the hornet's nest, I'll do the brave thing and run away.
And I'll only come back if I ever need support for the games I purchased, not for the ones I won't.
So because, in situations where there's no interactable object on screen and you just have to get from point A to point B, this is accomplished by pressing a button instead of clicking with the mouse, Telltale has abandoned its fans and will never get your money ever again?
I'm just going to enjoy my new Monkey Island game with the classic cast and original writer. You have fun with your moral rectitude.
I hate the controls in W&G mainly for one stupid reason, they make the part I hate most about adventures even more painful - Running around without knowing what to do. With Point and Click it is just annoying to walk through the same screens over and over again, but with the keyboard controls I have to pay attention all the time to walk around stuff, react on changing camera angles and so on... it just gets boring when you walk through the same screens over and over again and kills all the fun for me.
I will most likely buy ToMI just because it's Monkey Island, but I fear it will end like Wallace and Gromit,with me having paid for something I don't like to play.
Well. I finished any Lucas Arts adventure but while I enjoyed the story of Grim Fandango I uninstalled the game halfway through because I could not stand the controls any longer.
Great controls dont turn a bad game into a joyful experience but bad controls can ruin a good game, at least for me.
Did Grim have bad controls per se? Or was it merely a case of the automatic collision reversal, IE: getting too close to a wall automatically turned Manny away from it, that irritated most?
Controls do matter in games. Yet I think dismissing them before anyone has had a chance to use or spend anytime with them is a bit hasty. I know countless games that have rather peculiar control setup(Monster Hunter on the PS2, for one) but after the initial battle and overcoming your preconceptions of what they should be - they settle into their own groove.
Hi Nick! I understand the need to experiment new controls and the fact that it's easier for you guys to implement them for WII.
But here's a simple question: can't you guys just add a pc feature where the player can actually choose his favourite way of controlling the game? Mouse or mouse+keyboard.
I don't see it hard to implement nor an unfullfillable request. Please, at least think about it, it would make EVERYONE happier!
I don't think anyone would be against that. The problem is that you wouldn't be able to walk through half the environments. And the ones you could get around, would be hacks. We're not gonna release something we don't fully support. And even if we did, we'd see another thread on here asking if we can change the cameras so they can navigate properly with the point and click method. The truth is, there are only so many people in the company. We make episodic games. We have the craziest schedules. Everyone is working as hard as they can all the time. Its not as simple as "just adding hotspots on the places you can't see the ground" or "just changing the cameras". That's a lot more work than you think.
If the demo for monkey is the part I think it is, you'll definitely understand as soon as it boots up.
I don't think anyone would be against that. The problem is that you wouldn't be able to walk through half the environments. And the ones you could get around, would be hacks. We're not gonna release something we don't fully support. And even if we did, we'd see another thread on here asking if we can change the cameras so they can navigate properly with the point and click method. The truth is, there are only so many people in the company. We make episodic games. We have the craziest schedules. Everyone is working as hard as they can all the time. Its not as simple as "just adding hotspots on the places you can't see the ground" or "just changing the cameras". That's a lot more work than you think.
If the demo for monkey is the part I think it is, you'll definitely understand as soon as it boots up.
Ok, thanks, I perfectly see your point.
I'll get used to the new controls.
Oh, man, Monkey Island is back! It still sounds weird!!!
I'm very curious about all those scenes which ostensibly can't be done with a mouse steering and even more how much more extra gaming fun this will bring us.
In an amazingly short stretch of time, we have a 9 (soon to be 10, and more) page thread, with 173 posts, 3,720 views (twice that of any other thread on the forum), and full of people upset with this decision. It's not like it's a new thing we haven't tried before either, W&G proved that people were happier overall with mouse control. I had a long chat with TTGYare on the W&G forum discussing a system that would allow both methods to work side by side without sacrificing camera flexibility, and that would work in most situations.
Please, Telltale. You've been so good to us, and you've shown the fans so much respect, and taken criticism on board. Surely you can see that we don't want this control method. We're (mostly) asking nicely. We want to see this succeed as much as you do, please don't ignore us.
I havent tried W&G yet but am going to tonight at a friends house. What nick is saying here seems logical - the only problem is that it seems they never considered point'n'click at all, otherwise they wouldnt have created the game with those kinds of environments and camera angles. IMO thats quite a gamble of Telltale...making a Monkey Island game without supporting point'n'click. It seems to me that they've just reused the W&G engine to make the MI games "quick and easy" - perhaps it requires more time/resources to make games with the Sam and Max graphic engine?
I'm actually actively hoping for the new Monkey Island to have similar controls to that of W&G. Direct control for movement and point 'n click for everything else seems like a good way to have the freedom of composition that a 3D game should without the annoyances associated with having to control both movement and direction through separate input. And although I'm most definitely buying this for PC, such a control scheme will work perfectly with WiiWare given the pointer and the nunchuk.
I don't get all the controversy, honestly. W&G's controls were fine. It's nothing more than the same point 'n click interface but you move the character with arrow keys. That's literally the only difference. The reasons for going direct control in that regard were stated and make sense, and even if you can't understand them, is that one difference really a deal breaker to anyone who isn't crazy? Even if somebody had a problem with the controls, unless they were unbelievably bad they would have to be considered a subordinate issue to the story, writing, humor, and, you know, the things that actually make for a good Monkey Island game. Although I think they're yelled about more than necessary, I could at least see a case made about the Grim/EMI controls being offensive. But W&G's controls are manageable at absolute worse.
Did Grim have bad controls per se? Or was it merely a case of the automatic collision reversal, IE: getting too close to a wall automatically turned Manny away from it, that irritated most?
Controls do matter in games. Yet I think dismissing them before anyone has had a chance to use or spend anytime with them is a bit hasty. I know countless games that have rather peculiar control setup(Monster Hunter on the PS2, for one) but after the initial battle and overcoming your preconceptions of what they should be - they settle into their own groove.
I think every aspect of the game controls was horribly flawed in Grim Fandango.
Keyboard or gamepad movement in adventures is like point & click in first person shooters and I just can not believe it can be implemented in a non-annoying way. I still have some hope though
Even if somebody had a problem with the controls, unless they were unbelievably bad they would have to be considered a subordinate issue to the story, writing, humor, and, you know, the things that actually make for a good Monkey Island game.
MI4 had its funny moments and yet when I think about it the horrible controls defined the lasting image of this piece of software.
I don't get all the controversy, honestly. W&G's controls were fine. It's nothing more than the same point 'n click interface but you move the character with arrow keys. That's literally the only difference.
This aint the only difference. You also get
a) alternating camera angles disrupting a fluid gameplay (they annoyed me alot)
b) generally weaker graphics (compare the low-res textured floors and walls of W&G to the beautiful S&M backgrounds). It just looks like any mediocre 3D-game with no style left.
c) a bad inventory system (though I expect at least that one to be improved as the control scheme shouldnt matter much here)
d) mini-cutscenes interrupting gameplay when you do not expect them (as just walking close to something seems to trigger some annoying stuff)
e) frustrating walk here, walk there which takes a lot more time to do as you no longer have a quick walk function
f ) The awkward feel of having to use both hands.
And all that for some creative freedom in designing the scenes (what I still consider a nonsense-PR-argument made up by Telltale). PC gamers are certainly not on the bright side in this one as in the end all we get is a game which feels like lazy and unfinished console port (just like W&G).
If it wasnt Telltale who produced this game and we could blame some less favored company like EA or Lucas Arts all hell would break lose. Unfortunately people seem to be more forgiving when it comes to poor Telltale Games ruining a great franchise to make some quick console dollars.
a) alternating camera angles disrupting a fluid gameplay (they annoyed me alot)
b) generally weaker graphics (compare the low-res textured floors and walls of W&G to the beautiful S&M backgrounds). It just looks like any mediocre 3D-game with no style left.
The graphics of WG are absolutely brilliant. It was designed to look like a clay animotion movie and it really does. That has nothing to do with the controls.
Just had to throw in my $2.00 worth of comments since it seems relatively few are weighing in on the "pro" side of the new controls.
Could the W&G control scheme be improved? Sure.
Is it the devil spawn some are making it out to be? Far from it.
Personally, I've loved Telltale's games since Bone came out (with the exception of Strong Bad, just never got into it) and I have to admit I was thrilled to see the controls change from mouse clicks to keyboard.
Part of it is that my Telltale games tend to stay on my laptop to keep me entertained on business trips, and I absolutely hate the touchpad. Especially when it comes to games, multiple swipes to move a cursor aren't fun.
That aside, I've never felt right playing Sam & Max or Bone using a mouse.
I'll agree for Monkey Island 1, 2 and The Curse of Monkey Island, mouse clicking was fantastic. Particularly for Curse of Monkey Island since it just felt right with the art style.
When adventure games started making the jump to 3D mouse clicking just seemed wrong. There's just something incongruous with clicking on a flat plane to move in 3 dimensions.
That's part of why I loved Frogware allowing direct control (keyboard) in their most recent Sherlock Holmes adventures. Similarly, I was pleasantly surprised when I found Wallace & Gromit had changed to a direct control system.
To condense my much too long rambling, despite the five pages of complaint, Telltale, don't feel compelled to change something that's obviously working well enough for the presumably silent majority.
b) generally weaker graphics (compare the low-res textured floors and walls of W&G to the beautiful S&M backgrounds). It just looks like any mediocre 3D-game with no style left.
you might have lost all credibility with this statement. i think the quality of the graphics are the one thing critics could all agree on. And the style of the game is that of Aardman's... The award winning universally loved claymation studio?
I've been waiting to voice my opinion on the controls because I hadn't yet come to a conclusion on what I think about them. We still don't know enough information yet. I'll make an informed statement after I've played it. I just hope that the controls are customizable for the PC as I can't stand playing games with WASD. I instead use the numpad arrows.
I prefer the numpad because your thumb can be further away from the rest of your fingers instead of all cramped together. I don't use the same finger for the down and up arrows. I use my thumb for the down arrow and my middle finger for the up arrow (instead of the middle finger for both up and down as most people seem to do it). This is because I like to walk backwards as quickly as I can without having to switch my finger back and forth between two keys. It's just too awkward to do that for me in a D-Arrows/WASD format.
If it wasnt Telltale who produced this game and we could blame some less favored company like EA or Lucas Arts all hell would break lose. Unfortunately people seem to be more forgiving when it comes to poor Telltale Games ruining a great franchise to make some quick console dollars.
Come on, this is just getting silly. What kind of hell would break lose? More ranting users on the bulletin boards (80 instead of 40)? And absolutely no response from the site staff? Some hell, that would be.
Also, accusing Telltale of going after only the money stands no ground whatsoever. It was said earlier in this thread that adventure games are anything but a goldmine (and I can believe that, since Telltale is producing like 60% of this genre's output), and also, being familiar with the prices in the Telltale Store, they're quite reasonable and don't compare to the prices of those companies who ask 1.5 times the price of a Telltale season for a game that lasts twice as long as one single episode (and I'm even being optimistic here).
I won't even comment on the remarks about the W&G gfx...
you might have lost all credibility with this statement. i think the quality of the graphics are the one thing critics could all agree on. And the style of the game is that of Aardman's... The award winning universally loved claymation studio?
I was not talking about the character animations or certain more detailed objects populating the game world. I talk about things like floors, ceilings and walls which lack detail compared to hand-drawn images because a floor made of a plane with a texture put on it simply cannot look as good as a hand-drawn image which naturally is much more detailed. However I shouldnt have put that up here as this only remotely touches the aspect of game controls when it comes to the point of 2D vs. 3D. To summarize what I mean. Yes with the new controls you may be able to create a more diverse, less limited world with more details to explore (as the player can see more things) but on the other end certain things will be less detailed compared to traditional hand-drawn 2D-games (this goes for stuff like floors, ceilings, walls, trees, etc.).
So calm down. Except for the game controls of W&G and some minor glitches which you can find in any game I was generally happy with the Telltale games I have played (I would not be here otherwise) and I am just VERY annoyed by your decision to stick to a control scheme which I hate and fortunately does not seem to be favored by a majority of people to use it in a game which could potentially be the best adventure in a long time.
I´m just afraid this game and S&M3 might add to my personal wall of gaming letdowns along with titles such as Grim Fandango, MI4 or Kings Quest 8 and this is not good as I was looking forward to a new Monkey Island for too long.
A few choice scenes of Wallace and Gromit are warming me to the controls...
I'd honestly be very happy either way, as long as Telltale continues to improve and work on the PC controls. My main worry with direct control is that the PC version is getting something added in at the expense of a good product for the benefit of Telltale selling on a platform I'm not going to use....but if they go direct control and it is better than Wallace and Gromit, I suppose I'll be glad.
Ok, started reading this thread... kept reading as long as I could, and now I'm just gonna skip to the end and say:
The first Monkey Island is one of the first games I ever played all the way to completion. It's one of the only games that now, nearly 20 years on, I still play every once in a while. Followed the series through, of course, as you do, and I even enjoyed the hell out of Monkey Island 4, the much maligned red-headed stepchild of the group.
As long as the humor, the puzzles, and that indescribable itch at the base of your scalp is the same as the previous games (and having played a few Telltale Games, I'm happily secure that they will be), it could require that I learn to play the frickin' OBOE and I would do it.
Adapt to new controls, or don't. Play a game you've been asking for for years, or bitch and moan and whine and THEN play a game you've been asking for for years. Yes, there are plenty of you whining who are going to pick this up anyway, you know it.
Seriuosly, guys, I guess we're in full over-reacting mode here.
I wasn't a supporter of direct control, but I think this moaning is becoming weird. I guess we all should be supportive and try to elaborate and/or create ways to improve what Telltale has chosen to do. Asking them to revert a strong decision is pointless. Derrick did a great thing creating the hack to mouse-control W&G but... guess what... I had already become used to joypad control and now I'm using that!
I've already posted in another thread some suggestions: optional character-relative movement (great for keyboard users, IMHO), support for more gamepads...
1. Add arrows to the bottom of the screen we can click with the mouse cursor
2. Give the inventory a button somewhere and make that we dont have to scroll down single items
3. Stop the game from triggering cutscenes or dialogue when approaching objects. Such stuff should be triggered on mouseclicks in my opinion so people can safely navigate to their destination without being interrupted.
Aside from that I dont have many ideas on how to make keyboard controls better. Not that many shades of grey between black and white here as it seems.
Arrows we can click with the mouse cursor would be better than nothing, I think.
Or like in that script - hold the right mouse button and move the mouse to control the character.
Maybe right-clicking out of the screen or on a certain button to switch through the different hotspots with your character automatically turning into the right direction and the hotspots being lit up and left-clicking the button to interact with the hotspot. This way we would need no character movement at all what would make it alot better than navigating with the keyboard.
Just popping in to say that I'm in the silent majority that's fine with the controls. As long as I can interact with people and objects with the mouse, it's OK to use the keyboard to walk/run.
What was really bad about the MI4 and Grim Fandango controls was the fact that you'd have to walk over to anything to even get acknowledged it can be interacted with or not. Standing next to something to look at it. And if more than one item were in the same general area... oh boy.
No, this is fine. Plus, I'm stoked enough that these games are actually being made!
Comments
Well. I finished any Lucas Arts adventure but while I enjoyed the story of Grim Fandango I uninstalled the game halfway through because I could not stand the controls any longer.
Great controls dont turn a bad game into a joyful experience but bad controls can ruin a good game, at least for me.
+1
This seems like a minor issue, afterall good controls will always be easy to use even if they are not standard, right?
Well... not really.
People are extremely resistant to change, they won't change to something new as long as the old one still works fine. In a way that is sensible, as it means that you'll change when you're sure the new method is indeed superior and well implemented.
It does not justify however, that you call the new method bad when it isn't.
I'll give you an example, I was a beta tester on the indie RTS Multiwinia, and during most of it the controls were very left mouse button centric (i.e. you selected and ordered units with the left mouse button), as opposed to the more standard left mouse select/right mouse order.
For this particular game, it worked really well as it allowed you to do pretty much anything using just the mouse + WASD for camera movement.
However, about one month before release the game suffered a massive control redesign because previewers were screwing up immensely for the single reason the controls were not what they expected them to be. This demanded for the basic controls to require expansion too, and now you also need the shift key to do stuff you could previously do with a mouse click.
The new controls in that game have their advantages, and being more standard mean it's easier for people to pick up. However to this day I believe the initial controls to be a lot more fluid.
I played Grim Fandango, and EMI, and Wallace and Gromit. I enjoyed each and everyone one of them. I even played and enjoyed games with far worse controls. I don't see why ToMI would be any different.
The system works. It's not perfect but it works. Maybe you should try to set aside your pre-conceptions on how the game should be controlled and actually try to give it a chance.
I couldn't agree more.
Keyboard control doesn't add ANYTHING to the experience, use EITHER keyboard OR mouse. NOT both, it's not a TPP action game with camera fixed behind the character's back.
People have already suggested how to implement point 'n' click control scheme, maybe Telltale should stop shoving solutions created with consoles in mind down PC owners' throats and actually listen.
Having played The Last Resort, I'm slowly coming around to the control system. They're not bad controls, you just have to spend money and buy a gamepad to appreciate them in their own right.
My only real problem with them is that I preferred the old-style Click to Move. It gives you a better feeling of being in control than the pad does.
For example, it's especially grating when there's a lot of active items near you, and you spend most of the time constantly cycling between them to get the one you want. (Why isn't the button for that on the shoulder buttons by the way? It should be.)
Yes, I know you could just put the pad down and pick up the mouse to select the one you want, but that kind of defeats the point of switching away from the mouse as a means of control in the first place...
*Will try playing the next Wallace and Grommit with his left hand on the pad and right hand on the mouse, to see if that's any better*
Which means they can afford to lose us.
Which means we've supported them enough so they are able to stand firm in the gaming business.
* * * * *
You know, if you like an upcoming real band, not a marketing toy, you should support them. If you don't, they'll lose their contract, and never release another album. That is bad.
However, if that band is already well established, not buying every album doesn't reall y hurt them. Apparently, even Bruce Dickinson, realizing that most fans didn't know the songs from 'Dance of Death', addressed the audience, telling them that if they can't buy the album, at least download the thing, so they know the songs.
* * * * *
It seems Telltale is reaching Iron Maiden status.
Yes, I am implying it. And I'll do it.
Because although I support quality products, I'll refuse to pay for a faulty one.
Now that I may have stirred the hornet's nest, I'll do the brave thing and run away.
And I'll only come back if I ever need support for the games I purchased, not for the ones I won't.
Cheers!
I'm just going to enjoy my new Monkey Island game with the classic cast and original writer. You have fun with your moral rectitude.
I will most likely buy ToMI just because it's Monkey Island, but I fear it will end like Wallace and Gromit,with me having paid for something I don't like to play.
Did Grim have bad controls per se? Or was it merely a case of the automatic collision reversal, IE: getting too close to a wall automatically turned Manny away from it, that irritated most?
Controls do matter in games. Yet I think dismissing them before anyone has had a chance to use or spend anytime with them is a bit hasty. I know countless games that have rather peculiar control setup(Monster Hunter on the PS2, for one) but after the initial battle and overcoming your preconceptions of what they should be - they settle into their own groove.
I don't think anyone would be against that. The problem is that you wouldn't be able to walk through half the environments. And the ones you could get around, would be hacks. We're not gonna release something we don't fully support. And even if we did, we'd see another thread on here asking if we can change the cameras so they can navigate properly with the point and click method. The truth is, there are only so many people in the company. We make episodic games. We have the craziest schedules. Everyone is working as hard as they can all the time. Its not as simple as "just adding hotspots on the places you can't see the ground" or "just changing the cameras". That's a lot more work than you think.
If the demo for monkey is the part I think it is, you'll definitely understand as soon as it boots up.
Ok, thanks, I perfectly see your point.
I'll get used to the new controls.
Oh, man, Monkey Island is back! It still sounds weird!!!
Please, Telltale. You've been so good to us, and you've shown the fans so much respect, and taken criticism on board. Surely you can see that we don't want this control method. We're (mostly) asking nicely. We want to see this succeed as much as you do, please don't ignore us.
with classical Point`n Click Control !!!
The big, old Fanbase don`t want to see anything other!
I do.
I don't get all the controversy, honestly. W&G's controls were fine. It's nothing more than the same point 'n click interface but you move the character with arrow keys. That's literally the only difference. The reasons for going direct control in that regard were stated and make sense, and even if you can't understand them, is that one difference really a deal breaker to anyone who isn't crazy? Even if somebody had a problem with the controls, unless they were unbelievably bad they would have to be considered a subordinate issue to the story, writing, humor, and, you know, the things that actually make for a good Monkey Island game. Although I think they're yelled about more than necessary, I could at least see a case made about the Grim/EMI controls being offensive. But W&G's controls are manageable at absolute worse.
I think every aspect of the game controls was horribly flawed in Grim Fandango.
Keyboard or gamepad movement in adventures is like point & click in first person shooters and I just can not believe it can be implemented in a non-annoying way. I still have some hope though
MI4 had its funny moments and yet when I think about it the horrible controls defined the lasting image of this piece of software.
There was that horrible puzzle in the new scummbar that drove me really mad.
This aint the only difference. You also get
a) alternating camera angles disrupting a fluid gameplay (they annoyed me alot)
b) generally weaker graphics (compare the low-res textured floors and walls of W&G to the beautiful S&M backgrounds). It just looks like any mediocre 3D-game with no style left.
c) a bad inventory system (though I expect at least that one to be improved as the control scheme shouldnt matter much here)
d) mini-cutscenes interrupting gameplay when you do not expect them (as just walking close to something seems to trigger some annoying stuff)
e) frustrating walk here, walk there which takes a lot more time to do as you no longer have a quick walk function
f ) The awkward feel of having to use both hands.
And all that for some creative freedom in designing the scenes (what I still consider a nonsense-PR-argument made up by Telltale). PC gamers are certainly not on the bright side in this one as in the end all we get is a game which feels like lazy and unfinished console port (just like W&G).
If it wasnt Telltale who produced this game and we could blame some less favored company like EA or Lucas Arts all hell would break lose. Unfortunately people seem to be more forgiving when it comes to poor Telltale Games ruining a great franchise to make some quick console dollars.
The graphics of WG are absolutely brilliant. It was designed to look like a clay animotion movie and it really does. That has nothing to do with the controls.
Could the W&G control scheme be improved? Sure.
Is it the devil spawn some are making it out to be? Far from it.
Personally, I've loved Telltale's games since Bone came out (with the exception of Strong Bad, just never got into it) and I have to admit I was thrilled to see the controls change from mouse clicks to keyboard.
Part of it is that my Telltale games tend to stay on my laptop to keep me entertained on business trips, and I absolutely hate the touchpad. Especially when it comes to games, multiple swipes to move a cursor aren't fun.
That aside, I've never felt right playing Sam & Max or Bone using a mouse.
I'll agree for Monkey Island 1, 2 and The Curse of Monkey Island, mouse clicking was fantastic. Particularly for Curse of Monkey Island since it just felt right with the art style.
When adventure games started making the jump to 3D mouse clicking just seemed wrong. There's just something incongruous with clicking on a flat plane to move in 3 dimensions.
That's part of why I loved Frogware allowing direct control (keyboard) in their most recent Sherlock Holmes adventures. Similarly, I was pleasantly surprised when I found Wallace & Gromit had changed to a direct control system.
To condense my much too long rambling, despite the five pages of complaint, Telltale, don't feel compelled to change something that's obviously working well enough for the presumably silent majority.
you might have lost all credibility with this statement. i think the quality of the graphics are the one thing critics could all agree on. And the style of the game is that of Aardman's... The award winning universally loved claymation studio?
I prefere the arrow keys. all 3 should be predefined in the game if I read the thread correctly.
Please just listen, make it point and click.
Come on, this is just getting silly. What kind of hell would break lose? More ranting users on the bulletin boards (80 instead of 40)? And absolutely no response from the site staff? Some hell, that would be.
Also, accusing Telltale of going after only the money stands no ground whatsoever. It was said earlier in this thread that adventure games are anything but a goldmine (and I can believe that, since Telltale is producing like 60% of this genre's output), and also, being familiar with the prices in the Telltale Store, they're quite reasonable and don't compare to the prices of those companies who ask 1.5 times the price of a Telltale season for a game that lasts twice as long as one single episode (and I'm even being optimistic here).
I won't even comment on the remarks about the W&G gfx...
I was not talking about the character animations or certain more detailed objects populating the game world. I talk about things like floors, ceilings and walls which lack detail compared to hand-drawn images because a floor made of a plane with a texture put on it simply cannot look as good as a hand-drawn image which naturally is much more detailed. However I shouldnt have put that up here as this only remotely touches the aspect of game controls when it comes to the point of 2D vs. 3D. To summarize what I mean. Yes with the new controls you may be able to create a more diverse, less limited world with more details to explore (as the player can see more things) but on the other end certain things will be less detailed compared to traditional hand-drawn 2D-games (this goes for stuff like floors, ceilings, walls, trees, etc.).
So calm down. Except for the game controls of W&G and some minor glitches which you can find in any game I was generally happy with the Telltale games I have played (I would not be here otherwise) and I am just VERY annoyed by your decision to stick to a control scheme which I hate and fortunately does not seem to be favored by a majority of people to use it in a game which could potentially be the best adventure in a long time.
I´m just afraid this game and S&M3 might add to my personal wall of gaming letdowns along with titles such as Grim Fandango, MI4 or Kings Quest 8 and this is not good as I was looking forward to a new Monkey Island for too long.
I'd honestly be very happy either way, as long as Telltale continues to improve and work on the PC controls. My main worry with direct control is that the PC version is getting something added in at the expense of a good product for the benefit of Telltale selling on a platform I'm not going to use....but if they go direct control and it is better than Wallace and Gromit, I suppose I'll be glad.
The first Monkey Island is one of the first games I ever played all the way to completion. It's one of the only games that now, nearly 20 years on, I still play every once in a while. Followed the series through, of course, as you do, and I even enjoyed the hell out of Monkey Island 4, the much maligned red-headed stepchild of the group.
As long as the humor, the puzzles, and that indescribable itch at the base of your scalp is the same as the previous games (and having played a few Telltale Games, I'm happily secure that they will be), it could require that I learn to play the frickin' OBOE and I would do it.
Adapt to new controls, or don't. Play a game you've been asking for for years, or bitch and moan and whine and THEN play a game you've been asking for for years. Yes, there are plenty of you whining who are going to pick this up anyway, you know it.
I wasn't a supporter of direct control, but I think this moaning is becoming weird. I guess we all should be supportive and try to elaborate and/or create ways to improve what Telltale has chosen to do. Asking them to revert a strong decision is pointless. Derrick did a great thing creating the hack to mouse-control W&G but... guess what... I had already become used to joypad control and now I'm using that!
I've already posted in another thread some suggestions: optional character-relative movement (great for keyboard users, IMHO), support for more gamepads...
1. Add arrows to the bottom of the screen we can click with the mouse cursor
2. Give the inventory a button somewhere and make that we dont have to scroll down single items
3. Stop the game from triggering cutscenes or dialogue when approaching objects. Such stuff should be triggered on mouseclicks in my opinion so people can safely navigate to their destination without being interrupted.
Aside from that I dont have many ideas on how to make keyboard controls better. Not that many shades of grey between black and white here as it seems.
Or like in that script - hold the right mouse button and move the mouse to control the character.
What was really bad about the MI4 and Grim Fandango controls was the fact that you'd have to walk over to anything to even get acknowledged it can be interacted with or not. Standing next to something to look at it. And if more than one item were in the same general area... oh boy.
No, this is fine. Plus, I'm stoked enough that these games are actually being made!