It's not just for endangering his family, it was also himself. If Kenny had died then he couldn't have got to his family and so he obviously felt very strongly about it.
But Kenny didn't even get close to die! Not by Lee's actions anyways! Kenny suposed that Lee was getting everyone killed by not helping murdering a dude in fron of his daughter and a child and decided that Lee was worth leaving to die. That reasoning does not line up. Not to me anyways since Kenny's reasons are based on suposing that Larry was dead (and he wasn't btw, if you pulse his heart 4 times his mouth moves and as far as we know reanimation is not affected by CPR) so sorry if I don't take them into account.
There was actually a deleted audio where he thanks Lee for getting Katjaa out of the house and saving Duck apparently but I suppose you'll say "that doesn't count" right?
Actually, that is very significative. The developers removed that line for some reason (such as characterization). They probably wanted to make Kenny really seem like an asshole to people who didn't side with him.
Can you please tell me where in episode 4 and 5 Kenny leaves you to die? I either have a very short memory or you've got this wrong because I cannot think anywhere in episode 4 and 5 where he left Lee to die as well?
Sorry, that was actually my mistake. In episode 4 it's the other way around. Kenny is grabbed by a walker and Lee has the choice to help him or not (in the very begining). I got that mixed up.
Anyways Kenny does leave you to die twice.
When being attacked by Danny. (Episode 2)
Trapped underneat a door. (Episode 3)
Letting Lee, a bitten man, look out for a child in a walker infested town. (Episode 4 & 5)
This is what annoys me, you assume that i haven't but because I haven't mentioned it recently, you think i don't. I certainly have considered her side
Well, you did the same to me, man:
Look at it this way, Kenny leaves you to die...
... as if I hadn't thought about his reasons many times before. But sorry for annoying you, I obviously did not know if you had or had not tried to comprehend Lilly's point of view.
Of course i know why she left Lee to die, of course i get that but it wasn't right to let him die even if he was in the wrong because it's still effectively murder (and before you say it, Kenny was just as in the wrong so don't think i'm being biased please)
I know what she did was wrong, but in my prespective she has some justification whereas Kenny does not (again, in my point of view).
if she somehow didn't suffer from grief (if that was ever possible in life) from her father's death, maybe she would have not left Lee to die if she had considered the reasons why they did what they did. In fact if Lilly steals the RV before she goes she even says "part of me understands why you did what you did", so i guess she did consider things afterwards but in that moment she was in grief.
Well, thank you for pointing this out. Lilly jus gained one more point of respect from me. The fact that she could even try to consider the reasons behind the murder of her father makes me feel even more amazed by how strong her character is.
Anyway, you have really misunderstood me because you think i'm one sided over this.
Well, perhaps I did. Perhaps I'm the one being one sided here, but as I said I've already tried to understand Kenny's character but I just can't! His reasoning doesn't line up to me.
Plus I wasn't Larry's biggest fan, i mean he did leave me to die, was horrible every single time he spoke and if i had saved his life a hundred times he still wouldn't have saved mine.
Well I don't think anyone was Larry's fan, tbh. I certainly wasn't! That guy was a douche and there isn't really anything likable about him.
You feel Kenny's reasons aren't as valid as her's. That's fine but i'll disagree every time. They are just as you said, different, but one in my eyes is not superior over the other
You're right, I simply cannot comprehend Kenny's reasons and that why I'm probably never going to 'accept' them as valid. I guess we're going to have to agree on disagreeing, then.
More that you'd think actually. If Kenny leaves Lee to die because Lee suposedly endangered his family then why doesn't he remember that Lee… more was also the person who saved his family in the first place? Why doesn't Kenny take that into account?
It's not just for endangering his family, it was also himself. If Kenny had died then he couldn't have got to his family and so he obviously felt very strongly about it.
There was actually a deleted audio where he thanks Lee for getting Katjaa out of the house and saving Duck apparently but I suppose you'll say "that doesn't count" right?
He also leaves you to die not once but twice (episode 3 and episode 4 and possibly episode 5) days after the incident which makes it even worse when compared to Lilly...
Can you please tell me where in episode 4 and 5 Kenny leaves you to die? I either have a very short memory or you've got this wrong because I cannot think anywhere in episode 4… [view original content]
And the way he looked at the situation was that his and everyone elses life was in danger knowing that if Larry were dead he would turn and kill all of them. It's not a case of how close he was to dying. He believed he could have died in a few minutes if Larry had turned.
Kenny suposed that Lee was getting everyone killed by not helping murdering a dude in fron of his daughter and a child and decided that Lee was worth leaving to die.
It's as i have previously said, he didn't hate on Lee because he determinantely refused to help him kill "a dude in front of his daughter and a small child", he hated on him because he blames Lee for putting himself and everyone elses life in even more danger and was more than likely terrified he wouldn't be able to rescue his wife and son because he'd be dead and that Lee made things worse. Even i admit that leaving him to die was extreme and that to me was always a bad move on telltales part to do that because i do not think they should have had Kenny do that because it's naturally going to annoy most of us.
Kenny's reasons are based on suposing that Larry was dead (and he wasn't btw, if you pulse his heart 4 times his mouth moves and as far as we know reanimation is not affected by CPR) so sorry if I don't take them into account.
Yeah and Kenny's reasonings "supposing" Larry was dead should be enough knowing there is the chance he'd turn if he had died. And i have said it before and i will say it again, there is never any definite confirmation he was alive or dead. The twitch could have been him reviving but it may not have been either. We don't know that reanimation is brought on by CPR. Lee pushing down on Larry may have speeded up the process of reanimation as a reversal to the way you would normally revive someone who is virtually dead. I mean how do we really know when no one truly understands why everyone turns when they die? I know you will think i'm an idiot for saying that but i'm not bothered anymore about what people think of my opinion on this scene because there's no right or wrong way of looking at it and everyone's view of things are different which is why I accept yours.
Anyways Kenny does leave you to die twice. When being attacked by Danny. (Episode 2)
Trapped underneat a door. (Episode 3), Letting Lee, a bitten man, look out for a child in a walker infested town. (Episode 4 & 5)
Letting a bitten Lee look for Clem in a walker infested town to me is not leaving him to die at all given the fact that it is nothing like leaving him under the door scene for example where he was moments away from possibly dying. It was Lee's choice to go, he can even go alone to look for her and it's not like he couldn't defend himself in the early stages of being bitten. I disagree on that last point anyway but i guess it's how you and i look at it suppose.
I know what she did was wrong, but in my prespective she has some justification whereas Kenny does not (again, in my point of view).
Ok fine.
Well, perhaps I did. Perhaps I'm the one being one sided here, but as I said I've already tried to understand Kenny's character but I just can't! His reasoning doesn't line up to me.
Again fair enough. I guess it all really does depend on our first play throughs mostly. It kind of sets the tone for a permanent way of how we perceive things
You're right, I simply cannot comprehend Kenny's reasons and that why I'm probably never going to 'accept' them as valid. I guess we're going to have to agree on disagreeing, then.
You're right. We'll always agree to disagree on this lol.
It's not just for endangering his family, it was also himself. If Kenny had died then he couldn't have got to his family and so he obviously… more felt very strongly about it.
But Kenny didn't even get close to die! Not by Lee's actions anyways! Kenny suposed that Lee was getting everyone killed by not helping murdering a dude in fron of his daughter and a child and decided that Lee was worth leaving to die. That reasoning does not line up. Not to me anyways since Kenny's reasons are based on suposing that Larry was dead (and he wasn't btw, if you pulse his heart 4 times his mouth moves and as far as we know reanimation is not affected by CPR) so sorry if I don't take them into account.
There was actually a deleted audio where he thanks Lee for getting Katjaa out of the house and saving Duck apparently but I suppose you'll say "that doesn't count" right?
Actually, that is very significative. The developers removed that line fo… [view original content]
Isn't trying to sway others' opinions part of discussion, or at the very least try to convey new insight?
And if your opinion was truly genuine, it would take much more than a few argumentative statements to completely change your opinion on a character you like. Maybe he was just trying to give you perspective.
Ok, it's just sometimes it's like you go off on a rant about his negative qualities to the point you are trying to sway mine and others opinions. I know that's not your intention but that's how it comes across
Lol you know by now that nothing you or anyone will say will change my opinion on a character i like. When i see a negative post i'm going to bring some light on it when i can. You see i try to always be positive
Isn't trying to sway others' opinions part of discussion, or at the very least try to convey new insight?
And if your opinion was truly g… moreenuine, it would take much more than a few argumentative statements to completely change your opinion on a character you like. Maybe he was just trying to give you perspective.
starting from when he kills Larry in the meat-locker.
I'd argue we saw that side of him even sooner than that, or at least hints of it. Back in the drugstore, when Lilly's still arguing about letting Lee and the rest of them in, Kenny gets pretty angry right then and there. He almost immediately starts throwing shit at Lilly ("Maybe you should go join 'em, then. You'll have something in common!"), and that's before Larry even starts threatening to throw Duck out. I mean granted, it is his son that's being threatened, but he was pretty much ready to pounce on Larry the second he looked at Duck. And if Lee suggests trying to reason with him, Kenny blows it off without hesitation, more than ready to attack Larry.
To me though i feel as though in episode 4 and 5 they changed his character so much in a way that 90% of stuff he did was aggressive and vio… morelent.
Nothing about Kenny was changed, only amplified. Kenny was always an aggressive and violent individual who had a poor control with his emotions, even from way back in Season 1 before he lost his wife and son, starting from when he kills Larry in the meat-locker. He just happened to get worse as episodes went by in Season 2, and he continued to struggle with controlling his emotions.
To me they just kept pushing us into hating him and all the stuff Jane and Luke kept saying about what he was becoming.
Because they were correct, Kenny was starting to get worse in terms of behavior, violence, and impulsiveness, and from what Luke and Jane saw, all they knew about Kenny was that he's liable to be angry, violent, and impulsive. They had no real reason to believe that Kenny wouldn't … [view original content]
starting from when he kills Larry in the meat-locker.
I'd argue we saw that side of him even sooner than that, or at least hints of … moreit. Back in the drugstore, when Lilly's still arguing about letting Lee and the rest of them in, Kenny gets pretty angry right then and there. He almost immediately starts throwing shit at Lilly ("Maybe you should go join 'em, then. You'll have something in common!"), and that's before Larry even starts threatening to throw Duck out. I mean granted, it is his son that's being threatened, but he was pretty much ready to pounce on Larry the second he looked at Duck. And if Lee suggests trying to reason with him, Kenny blows it off without hesitation, more than ready to attack Larry.
You have a point, I didn't consider Kenny's comments to Lilly and Larry back in Episode 1.
I guess it's because I considered them to be just meaningless words at that time, especially when Kenny was rather amiable to be around with before his drastic change in the next few episodes, when he started the "with me or against me" stance. When people get angry or overly emotional, they tends to say harsh things they don't necessarily mean, and I didn't think much of what Kenny said at the time.
But thinking back now, Kenny could have be capable of anything long before the meat-locker incident.
starting from when he kills Larry in the meat-locker.
I'd argue we saw that side of him even sooner than that, or at least hints of … moreit. Back in the drugstore, when Lilly's still arguing about letting Lee and the rest of them in, Kenny gets pretty angry right then and there. He almost immediately starts throwing shit at Lilly ("Maybe you should go join 'em, then. You'll have something in common!"), and that's before Larry even starts threatening to throw Duck out. I mean granted, it is his son that's being threatened, but he was pretty much ready to pounce on Larry the second he looked at Duck. And if Lee suggests trying to reason with him, Kenny blows it off without hesitation, more than ready to attack Larry.
starting from when he kills Larry in the meat-locker.
I'd argue we saw that side of him even sooner than that, or at least hints of … moreit. Back in the drugstore, when Lilly's still arguing about letting Lee and the rest of them in, Kenny gets pretty angry right then and there. He almost immediately starts throwing shit at Lilly ("Maybe you should go join 'em, then. You'll have something in common!"), and that's before Larry even starts threatening to throw Duck out. I mean granted, it is his son that's being threatened, but he was pretty much ready to pounce on Larry the second he looked at Duck. And if Lee suggests trying to reason with him, Kenny blows it off without hesitation, more than ready to attack Larry.
I'd protect my own children from harm from someone who's threatening to throw them out, yes, but I like to think that I wouldn't make a situation worse by fighting. Nothing would have been gained from starting a fight with a group of stranger when walkers are trying to break in the drugstore.
Funny thing is, Larry and Kenny aren't all that different when you think about it. Both fathers prioritizes protecting their family above all others, both fathers are short tempered and are willing to use violence if they feel that their family is threatened, and both fathers have a friend or relative that struggle to keep them calm when under pressure.
but I like to think that I wouldn't make a situation worse by fighting.
Are you implying that Kenny started the argument in the drugstore? Because if i remember correctly, Lilly and Larry started telling Carley off for letting them in and then Lee has the choice to say something that would offend them. They were all to blame amongst themselves.
Funny thing is, Larry and Kenny aren't all that different when you think about it. Both fathers prioritizes protecting their family above all others, both fathers are short tempered and are willing to use violence if they feel that their family is threatened, and both fathers have a friend or relative that struggle to keep them calm when under pressure.
You are right in that respect although Larry is horrible to pretty much everyone all of the time the second he speaks where as Kenny isn't but yeah they have similarities definitely.
I'd protect my own children from harm from someone who's threatening to throw them out, yes, but I like to think that I wouldn't make a situ… moreation worse by fighting. Nothing would have been gained from starting a fight with a group of stranger when walkers are trying to break in the drugstore.
Funny thing is, Larry and Kenny aren't all that different when you think about it. Both fathers prioritizes protecting their family above all others, both fathers are short tempered and are willing to use violence if they feel that their family is threatened, and both fathers have a friend or relative that struggle to keep them calm when under pressure.
Are you implying that Kenny started the argument in the drugstore? Because if i remember correctly, Lilly and Larry started telling Carley off for letting them in and then Lee has the choice to say something that would offend them. They were all to blame amongst themselves.
Oh, no, of course not. Nearly everyone took part in the fight and the commotion was attracting the walkers, so I would have likely tried to stop them from fighting and point out what was going on outside to keep them quiet.
but I like to think that I wouldn't make a situation worse by fighting.
Are you implying that Kenny started the argument in the drug… morestore? Because if i remember correctly, Lilly and Larry started telling Carley off for letting them in and then Lee has the choice to say something that would offend them. They were all to blame amongst themselves.
Funny thing is, Larry and Kenny aren't all that different when you think about it. Both fathers prioritizes protecting their family above all others, both fathers are short tempered and are willing to use violence if they feel that their family is threatened, and both fathers have a friend or relative that struggle to keep them calm when under pressure.
You are right in that respect although Larry is horrible to pretty much everyone all of the time the second he speaks where as Kenny isn't but yeah they have similarities definitely.
Can I just say, bravo to Telltale for this. I love how characters like Lilly and Kenny (even in Season 2) can be so complex that years later we are sat here, debating their actions
You took the words right out of my mouth. Since TFTB came out I took a little break so I haven't been as active on the commuity since then. But from time to time I would still visit the forums and see this discussion still debated after so much time, it looks like things haven't changed that much after all.
So yeah, as you very well put, kudos to Telltale for really making memorable characters throughout all their games, long may it continue!
Can I just say, bravo to Telltale for this. I love how characters like Lilly and Kenny (even in Season 2) can be so complex that years later… more we are sat here, debating their actions, interpreting their every move and trying to deliver which one we think is the better person (morally). It's really awesome actually.
Are you implying that Kenny started the argument in the drugstore? Because if i remember correctly, Lilly and Larry started telling Carley o… moreff for letting them in and then Lee has the choice to say something that would offend them. They were all to blame amongst themselves.
Oh, no, of course not. Nearly everyone took part in the fight and the commotion was attracting the walkers, so I would have likely tried to stop them from fighting and point out what was going on outside to keep them quiet.
Comments
But Kenny didn't even get close to die! Not by Lee's actions anyways! Kenny suposed that Lee was getting everyone killed by not helping murdering a dude in fron of his daughter and a child and decided that Lee was worth leaving to die. That reasoning does not line up. Not to me anyways since Kenny's reasons are based on suposing that Larry was dead (and he wasn't btw, if you pulse his heart 4 times his mouth moves and as far as we know reanimation is not affected by CPR) so sorry if I don't take them into account.
Actually, that is very significative. The developers removed that line for some reason (such as characterization). They probably wanted to make Kenny really seem like an asshole to people who didn't side with him.
Sorry, that was actually my mistake. In episode 4 it's the other way around. Kenny is grabbed by a walker and Lee has the choice to help him or not (in the very begining). I got that mixed up.
Anyways Kenny does leave you to die twice.
Well, you did the same to me, man:
... as if I hadn't thought about his reasons many times before. But sorry for annoying you, I obviously did not know if you had or had not tried to comprehend Lilly's point of view.
I know what she did was wrong, but in my prespective she has some justification whereas Kenny does not (again, in my point of view).
Well, thank you for pointing this out. Lilly jus gained one more point of respect from me. The fact that she could even try to consider the reasons behind the murder of her father makes me feel even more amazed by how strong her character is.
Well, perhaps I did. Perhaps I'm the one being one sided here, but as I said I've already tried to understand Kenny's character but I just can't! His reasoning doesn't line up to me.
Well I don't think anyone was Larry's fan, tbh. I certainly wasn't! That guy was a douche and there isn't really anything likable about him.
You're right, I simply cannot comprehend Kenny's reasons and that why I'm probably never going to 'accept' them as valid. I guess we're going to have to agree on disagreeing, then.
And the way he looked at the situation was that his and everyone elses life was in danger knowing that if Larry were dead he would turn and kill all of them. It's not a case of how close he was to dying. He believed he could have died in a few minutes if Larry had turned.
It's as i have previously said, he didn't hate on Lee because he determinantely refused to help him kill "a dude in front of his daughter and a small child", he hated on him because he blames Lee for putting himself and everyone elses life in even more danger and was more than likely terrified he wouldn't be able to rescue his wife and son because he'd be dead and that Lee made things worse. Even i admit that leaving him to die was extreme and that to me was always a bad move on telltales part to do that because i do not think they should have had Kenny do that because it's naturally going to annoy most of us.
Yeah and Kenny's reasonings "supposing" Larry was dead should be enough knowing there is the chance he'd turn if he had died. And i have said it before and i will say it again, there is never any definite confirmation he was alive or dead. The twitch could have been him reviving but it may not have been either. We don't know that reanimation is brought on by CPR. Lee pushing down on Larry may have speeded up the process of reanimation as a reversal to the way you would normally revive someone who is virtually dead. I mean how do we really know when no one truly understands why everyone turns when they die? I know you will think i'm an idiot for saying that but i'm not bothered anymore about what people think of my opinion on this scene because there's no right or wrong way of looking at it and everyone's view of things are different which is why I accept yours.
Trapped underneat a door. (Episode 3), Letting Lee, a bitten man, look out for a child in a walker infested town. (Episode 4 & 5)
Letting a bitten Lee look for Clem in a walker infested town to me is not leaving him to die at all given the fact that it is nothing like leaving him under the door scene for example where he was moments away from possibly dying. It was Lee's choice to go, he can even go alone to look for her and it's not like he couldn't defend himself in the early stages of being bitten. I disagree on that last point anyway but i guess it's how you and i look at it suppose.
Ok fine.
Again fair enough. I guess it all really does depend on our first play throughs mostly. It kind of sets the tone for a permanent way of how we perceive things
You're right. We'll always agree to disagree on this lol.
Isn't trying to sway others' opinions part of discussion, or at the very least try to convey new insight?
And if your opinion was truly genuine, it would take much more than a few argumentative statements to completely change your opinion on a character you like. Maybe he was just trying to give you perspective.
Lol you know by now that nothing you or anyone will say will change my opinion on a character i like. When i see a negative post i'm going to bring some light on it when i can. You see i try to always be positive
I'd argue we saw that side of him even sooner than that, or at least hints of it. Back in the drugstore, when Lilly's still arguing about letting Lee and the rest of them in, Kenny gets pretty angry right then and there. He almost immediately starts throwing shit at Lilly ("Maybe you should go join 'em, then. You'll have something in common!"), and that's before Larry even starts threatening to throw Duck out. I mean granted, it is his son that's being threatened, but he was pretty much ready to pounce on Larry the second he looked at Duck. And if Lee suggests trying to reason with him, Kenny blows it off without hesitation, more than ready to attack Larry.
With the bloody end of an axe handle maybe, @Deltino.
Nobody threatens ma boy! D'you hear me?
You have a point, I didn't consider Kenny's comments to Lilly and Larry back in Episode 1.
I guess it's because I considered them to be just meaningless words at that time, especially when Kenny was rather amiable to be around with before his drastic change in the next few episodes, when he started the "with me or against me" stance. When people get angry or overly emotional, they tends to say harsh things they don't necessarily mean, and I didn't think much of what Kenny said at the time.
But thinking back now, Kenny could have be capable of anything long before the meat-locker incident.
If it was your son or daughter i'm pretty sure you'd all react the same way to protect them.
I'd protect my own children from harm from someone who's threatening to throw them out, yes, but I like to think that I wouldn't make a situation worse by fighting. Nothing would have been gained from starting a fight with a group of stranger when walkers are trying to break in the drugstore.
Funny thing is, Larry and Kenny aren't all that different when you think about it. Both fathers prioritizes protecting their family above all others, both fathers are short tempered and are willing to use violence if they feel that their family is threatened, and both fathers have a friend or relative that struggle to keep them calm when under pressure.
Are you implying that Kenny started the argument in the drugstore? Because if i remember correctly, Lilly and Larry started telling Carley off for letting them in and then Lee has the choice to say something that would offend them. They were all to blame amongst themselves.
You are right in that respect although Larry is horrible to pretty much everyone all of the time the second he speaks where as Kenny isn't but yeah they have similarities definitely.
Oh, no, of course not. Nearly everyone took part in the fight and the commotion was attracting the walkers, so I would have likely tried to stop them from fighting and point out what was going on outside to keep them quiet.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Since TFTB came out I took a little break so I haven't been as active on the commuity since then. But from time to time I would still visit the forums and see this discussion still debated after so much time, it looks like things haven't changed that much after all.
So yeah, as you very well put, kudos to Telltale for really making memorable characters throughout all their games, long may it continue!
Me too! I'd try to be the peace keeper