Okay, yes this is still going off topic from the purpose of this thread, but I'd just like to add to the current debate:
People enjoy fiction differently. We all enjoy different forms, genres, and aspects of fiction. We all have our own beliefs about what would be socially acceptable in life.
I think there are valid points on both sides of the line here, and we shouldn't judge each other for it [at least, not out loud. After all, we can all have our opinions.]
I don't think that Harley is "justified" in her killing spree, but her talk of backstory does explain it a bit (if all she said was true, of course.) I don't know if I'd forgive her so easily when all was said and done, but I don't think that I would immediately lock her up and throw away the key. I'd want to know the full story, understand why she was driven to do so, and hopefully find ways to avoid that in the future... I'm no law enforcement officer, nor do I have a great understanding of any major laws against murder so whether this would all be possible is up to the people leading the case, I assume.
If these characters don't make people feel anything be it sympathy, love, anger, joy, etc. Then the person who wrote these character is doing something extremely wrong.
I think that the writers here are doing something right. No one here has really said "eh, Harley's character seems so fake, so I don't really care what happens to her." People here have very strong opinions on the matter, and are expressing them. Maybe jumping to conclusions on things, but you can't blame them! That's just how they work. People here are angry, compassionate, disdainful, etc. This, (while not really pleasing from the outside, or aligning well with the forums rules -- since we've entered a territory talking about mental illness, and people could get set off any moment now) this is good. People have taken the fiction, and applied a question on the matter to their own real lives. How would I really judge this kind of person?
Would these same people tell me that I don't deserve sympathy if they knew me and I did something because of my mental state that they didn't like?
Possibly. Some people could dismiss or distance themselves away from you, but that's just how opinions work. Peoples opinions depend on the situation, and circumstances involved. Their beliefs, emotional state, and potential personal circumstances in the situation could call for different reactions.
I think the one thing that could really change things, though, is Knowing the person. Currently, we only know little of who Harley is. We don't really know if she's genuine to us, or not. We can only judge her based on what is presented to us. So, that could change if we knew more about the whole situation. Maybe some people haven't even seen Harley's explanation of "why she is what she is" because they didn't experience it. That's also the catch to these Telltale games. People's experiences on the world are shaped by what they do, how characters respond, and their investment in knowing more about the story.. Playing and replaying it to understand it better. If people knew you, maybe they would stay on your side and immediately forgive you. But maybe the circumstances would be different because people have a different opinion on fiction and reality. Having things "not be real" would mean that some people think their opinion or view on the fictional matter doesn't matter. None of these characters are "real" so it doesn't matter so much. If this was a real topic of a real event, maybe people would look at it in a bigger lens.
This discussion that has sprung up is good, because then the writers and animators have done their job -- get the player invested and form their own opinions on the fiction.
So, these things happen. But let's not get at eachothers throats for it. Just accept their view on the matter and move on.
Episode three has been rated in australia
http://www.classification.gov.au/Pages/View.aspx?sid=aqmPeUVQemidwnRnV2rAtA%3d%3d&ncdctx=Jl1XBCUiHcb1y47xeyw0a2ivRkZ34AxEPN97Cwwqt+6m33GPglT+ue%2ftqbjP6TY4mzGWJ5mlARSEhNCPdaHqEecWKy8bMqvFM1oDpoqG+Rc%3d
Thread updated, i forgot to check last night and that's when they decided to post it
Here is a screenshot for anyone who is too lazy to check the website.
Very mild sex impact? Awww I thought moderate sex impact. Is it still good that is a very mild sex impact? Like,is that a kiss or a sign sleeping with someone?
Awesome! A rating!
Not too excited for the Catwoman drama (wasn't a fan of their romance last season), but I'm excited for more insight into whatever the Agency is up to, and what the Pact has planned next.
Very mild sex impact? Awww I thought moderate sex impact. Is it still good that is a very mild sex impact? Like,is that a kiss or a sign sleeping with someone?
Well,I'm not big on Harley Quinn and Catwoman romance people are pushing now. I mean if they want that then that's there choice and option to do.But, I'm interested in Avesta and Bruce potential romance.
Still I don't know if last season's Batman of the first season had a very mild sex impact in the third episode. I will have to check. Update: I checked the episode 3 from the first season of Batman and it was moderate sex impact. So I guess we are probably getting a kiss then.
With the episode most likely being just 1.5 hours again, I am going to force myself to avoid the trailer. I've learned that the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to Telltale trailers and spoilers.
I am of the mind that someone who has challenges commits a crime., I will empathize with them...that however does not mean I will not be glad to see them caught and put into a hospital like Arkham(well hopefully one that does not have a tragic record of driving people more insane). Sometimes though, if someone like the Joker or Harley will not come peacefully ...I do advocate harsh methods. It is better that they are stopped than to let them continue hurting innocents.
The answer though is proper mental health care...something that society seems loath to pay for even though it is needed.
More like some characters don't deserve to be pitied on. I have no sympathy for murderers, fictionnal or otherwise.
And I'm glad some characters like Alfred call them what they are.
Does not mean we can't enjoy the story.
I do feel that social workers are criminally undervalued in American society. Too many of them are underpaid. I remember that during the 2008-2012(?) recession in America there were a lot of cuts to education and social services...
I am of the mind that someone who has challenges commits a crime., I will empathize with them...that however does not mean I will not be gla… mored to see them caught and put into a hospital like Arkham(well hopefully one that does not have a tragic record of driving people more insane). Sometimes though, if someone like the Joker or Harley will not come peacefully ...I do advocate harsh methods. It is better that they are stopped than to let them continue hurting innocents.
The answer though is proper mental health care...something that society seems loath to pay for even though it is needed.
Telling her off for being a thief isn't going to work in my favor, considering that she's just run into Bruce while he's working undercover in a hive of scum and villainy.
Awesome! A rating!
Not too excited for the Catwoman drama (wasn't a fan of their romance last season), but I'm excited for more insight into whatever the Agency is up to, and what the Pact has planned next.
Perhaps instead of showing Bruce and Selina, Avesta, or Harley going through a full romantic cutscene it just transitions into a black screen while implying that Bruce and romance character spent the night together. Season 1 showed the whole kiss her and remove her costume instance perhaps since we are dealing with Harley it might just fade to black and have Harley laugh with ecstasy or something like that who knows I am really hoping for a Harley Quinn Romance
Yeah, but this is Australian ratings we're talking about. (no offense to any Aussies here)
It's probably just flirting, nothing more. I don't know how Telltale can convey the idea of two people "spending the night together" through a fade-to-black moment without some sort of build up. Least season it was pretty clear, made sense, and the scene had some sort of... rise in sexual tension? Simple flirting won't necessarily lead to that..
Perhaps instead of showing Bruce and Selina, Avesta, or Harley going through a full romantic cutscene it just transitions into a black scree… moren while implying that Bruce and romance character spent the night together. Season 1 showed the whole kiss her and remove her costume instance perhaps since we are dealing with Harley it might just fade to black and have Harley laugh with ecstasy or something like that who knows I am really hoping for a Harley Quinn Romance
That's why Harley will laugh with ecstasy to ensure that players know that Bruce and Harley got together. Or it could be like flirting or some kiss or something while in episode 4 will probably have the romance scene or whatever you want to call it.
Yeah, but this is Australian ratings we're talking about. (no offense to any Aussies here)
It's probably just flirting, nothing more. I don… more't know how Telltale can convey the idea of two people "spending the night together" through a fade-to-black moment without some sort of build up. Least season it was pretty clear, made sense, and the scene had some sort of... rise in sexual tension? Simple flirting won't necessarily lead to that..
The more I think about it the more likely it becomes that John Doe is working for the Agency, that would fit with him wanting Bruce in the pact so badly, just like the Agency. How is the Agency supposed to know Bruce was to meet John Doe in the bar by the way ?
I don't think John is with them. John just considers Bruce a friend, and -- despite Bruce's values -- he believes that Bruce could fit in well with the group. He [Bruce] survived the Asylum, John understands that Bruce can be just as ruthless as his father, and wants to use that to his advantage.
The Agency knows that Bruce was going to meet with John, because they're an all-powerful intelligence agency. They keep tabs on everyone, they do their research. It's just how they operate.
The more I think about it the more likely it becomes that John Doe is working for the Agency, that would fit with him wanting Bruce in the p… moreact so badly, just like the Agency. How is the Agency supposed to know Bruce was to meet John Doe in the bar by the way ?
I hope you are right. I'm a bit tired of everyone supposed to be a mastermind manipulator, giving characters layers of genuineness is what makes them interesting and believable. I hope John is at least sincere in his affection for Bruce and his infatuation with Harley.
Does not mean he is not more intelligent than he appears though.
I don't think John is with them. John just considers Bruce a friend, and -- despite Bruce's values -- he believes that Bruce could fit in we… morell with the group. He [Bruce] survived the Asylum, John understands that Bruce can be just as ruthless as his father, and wants to use that to his advantage.
The Agency knows that Bruce was going to meet with John, because they're an all-powerful intelligence agency. They keep tabs on everyone, they do their research. It's just how they operate.
Well it doesn't have to be that John is in The Agency, probably Waller is tracking Bruce's phone since she knows that he is Batman and they most likely hacked in and saw the message and sent Avesta to the bar.
The more I think about it the more likely it becomes that John Doe is working for the Agency, that would fit with him wanting Bruce in the p… moreact so badly, just like the Agency. How is the Agency supposed to know Bruce was to meet John Doe in the bar by the way ?
Holy crap, I’m not alone! Everything about the Catwoman romance in the first season was the practical definition of shoehorned in fan service. I know you can veer Bruce in the other direction and keep it a “will they or won’t they?” but I’m afraid Telltale are going to lay on the romance angles very thick given the high statistic of players who think “I’ve only known you over the course of a few days and I’m already in love with you” is good storytelling.
Awesome! A rating!
Not too excited for the Catwoman drama (wasn't a fan of their romance last season), but I'm excited for more insight into whatever the Agency is up to, and what the Pact has planned next.
Well actually it was a few days in the story and Bruce Wayne and Catwoman were always my favorite couple in the comics. I prefer any romance that keeps Damian far away from being in the TellTale series. Also Catwoman has saved Batman's life when he is fighting Lady Arkham in Episode 3 I am sure that if Catwoman left Batman behind, for him to get interrogated or captured, me and most player's wouldn't have romanced her. Catwoman even calls the relationship into question in episode 5 when she says if one night of sex meant they were going steady and your Bruce can be crushed, angry, or accepting of Selina's wishes if I remember that scene correctly. Also if you leave on good terms with Selina she will send Bruce a card at the end of Episode 5 meaning that they are still together because she will kiss Bruce and then leave on her motorcycle before Batman goes to stop Lady Arkham.
Holy crap, I’m not alone! Everything about the Catwoman romance in the first season was the practical definition of shoehorned in fan servic… moree. I know you can veer Bruce in the other direction and keep it a “will they or won’t they?” but I’m afraid Telltale are going to lay on the romance angles very thick given the high statistic of players who think “I’ve only known you over the course of a few days and I’m already in love with you” is good storytelling.
I pray we won't have to deal with her bullshit for very long. The sooner she is out of the picture the better.
She is nowhere near worthy of someone like Bruce.
I liked the Selina/Bruce romance..and I love all the people who say...Ohh Mister Bruce...he so pure like the driven snow. He is THE DEFINITION of Male Slut in the comics...so shut your pieholes and grow up.
I liked the Selina/Bruce romance..and I love all the people who say...Ohh Mister Bruce...he so pure like the driven snow. He is THE DEFINITION of Male Slut in the comics...so shut your pieholes and grow up.
If they end on good terms, whether they kiss or not, and she sends the card, I don't think it means that they are "together". I think it just means that she is grateful that he doesn't judge who she is or how she behaves. Selina may say that she is only a thief but I think she desperately wants to be seen as something more. Plus, she made a comment which I interpreted as meaning that Selina thinks relationships are a kind of cage; one that she is not interested in. At best, a relationship with Selina might be an on/off thing.
Well actually it was a few days in the story and Bruce Wayne and Catwoman were always my favorite couple in the comics. I prefer any romance… more that keeps Damian far away from being in the TellTale series. Also Catwoman has saved Batman's life when he is fighting Lady Arkham in Episode 3 I am sure that if Catwoman left Batman behind, for him to get interrogated or captured, me and most player's wouldn't have romanced her. Catwoman even calls the relationship into question in episode 5 when she says if one night of sex meant they were going steady and your Bruce can be crushed, angry, or accepting of Selina's wishes if I remember that scene correctly. Also if you leave on good terms with Selina she will send Bruce a card at the end of Episode 5 meaning that they are still together because she will kiss Bruce and then leave on her motorcycle before Batman goes to stop Lady Arkham.
I recall her saying "you ruined it" if in episode 3 you say something else than "that's what you want people to believe" in regards to her being a thief without any virtue.
If they end on good terms, whether they kiss or not, and she sends the card, I don't think it means that they are "together". I think it jus… moret means that she is grateful that he doesn't judge who she is or how she behaves. Selina may say that she is only a thief but I think she desperately wants to be seen as something more. Plus, she made a comment which I interpreted as meaning that Selina thinks relationships are a kind of cage; one that she is not interested in. At best, a relationship with Selina might be an on/off thing.
Comments
Okay, yes this is still going off topic from the purpose of this thread, but I'd just like to add to the current debate:
People enjoy fiction differently. We all enjoy different forms, genres, and aspects of fiction. We all have our own beliefs about what would be socially acceptable in life.
I think there are valid points on both sides of the line here, and we shouldn't judge each other for it [at least, not out loud. After all, we can all have our opinions.]
I don't think that Harley is "justified" in her killing spree, but her talk of backstory does explain it a bit (if all she said was true, of course.) I don't know if I'd forgive her so easily when all was said and done, but I don't think that I would immediately lock her up and throw away the key. I'd want to know the full story, understand why she was driven to do so, and hopefully find ways to avoid that in the future... I'm no law enforcement officer, nor do I have a great understanding of any major laws against murder so whether this would all be possible is up to the people leading the case, I assume.
I think that the writers here are doing something right. No one here has really said "eh, Harley's character seems so fake, so I don't really care what happens to her." People here have very strong opinions on the matter, and are expressing them. Maybe jumping to conclusions on things, but you can't blame them! That's just how they work. People here are angry, compassionate, disdainful, etc. This, (while not really pleasing from the outside, or aligning well with the forums rules -- since we've entered a territory talking about mental illness, and people could get set off any moment now) this is good. People have taken the fiction, and applied a question on the matter to their own real lives. How would I really judge this kind of person?
Possibly. Some people could dismiss or distance themselves away from you, but that's just how opinions work. Peoples opinions depend on the situation, and circumstances involved. Their beliefs, emotional state, and potential personal circumstances in the situation could call for different reactions.
I think the one thing that could really change things, though, is Knowing the person. Currently, we only know little of who Harley is. We don't really know if she's genuine to us, or not. We can only judge her based on what is presented to us. So, that could change if we knew more about the whole situation. Maybe some people haven't even seen Harley's explanation of "why she is what she is" because they didn't experience it. That's also the catch to these Telltale games. People's experiences on the world are shaped by what they do, how characters respond, and their investment in knowing more about the story.. Playing and replaying it to understand it better. If people knew you, maybe they would stay on your side and immediately forgive you. But maybe the circumstances would be different because people have a different opinion on fiction and reality. Having things "not be real" would mean that some people think their opinion or view on the fictional matter doesn't matter. None of these characters are "real" so it doesn't matter so much. If this was a real topic of a real event, maybe people would look at it in a bigger lens.
This discussion that has sprung up is good, because then the writers and animators have done their job -- get the player invested and form their own opinions on the fiction.
So, these things happen. But let's not get at eachothers throats for it. Just accept their view on the matter and move on.
Episode three has been rated in australia
http://www.classification.gov.au/Pages/View.aspx?sid=aqmPeUVQemidwnRnV2rAtA%3d%3d&ncdctx=Jl1XBCUiHcb1y47xeyw0a2ivRkZ34AxEPN97Cwwqt+6m33GPglT+ue%2ftqbjP6TY4mzGWJ5mlARSEhNCPdaHqEecWKy8bMqvFM1oDpoqG+Rc%3d
Thread updated, i forgot to check last night and that's when they decided to post it
Here is a screenshot for anyone who is too lazy to check the website.
Strong impact for violence? Shits gonna get real.
Very mild sex impact? Awww I thought moderate sex impact. Is it still good that is a very mild sex impact? Like,is that a kiss or a sign sleeping with someone?
Awesome! A rating!
Not too excited for the Catwoman drama (wasn't a fan of their romance last season), but I'm excited for more insight into whatever the Agency is up to, and what the Pact has planned next.
I'm kind of surprised that an episode with Catwoman and Harley Quinn together only has "mild sex impact."
Well,I'm not big on Harley Quinn and Catwoman romance people are pushing now. I mean if they want that then that's there choice and option to do.But, I'm interested in Avesta and Bruce potential romance.
Still I don't know if last season's Batman of the first season had a very mild sex impact in the third episode. I will have to check. Update: I checked the episode 3 from the first season of Batman and it was moderate sex impact. So I guess we are probably getting a kiss then.
Soo, any guesses on the release date? November 14th seems a bit too soon, maybe November 21st?
Yeah, I'd say Nov. 21st is very likely
Strong violence impact? Well, shit's about to go down. Also I agree with November 21st as a likely release date
With the episode most likely being just 1.5 hours again, I am going to force myself to avoid the trailer. I've learned that the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to Telltale trailers and spoilers.
I am of the mind that someone who has challenges commits a crime., I will empathize with them...that however does not mean I will not be glad to see them caught and put into a hospital like Arkham(well hopefully one that does not have a tragic record of driving people more insane). Sometimes though, if someone like the Joker or Harley will not come peacefully ...I do advocate harsh methods. It is better that they are stopped than to let them continue hurting innocents.
The answer though is proper mental health care...something that society seems loath to pay for even though it is needed.
November 14 would be nice and ideal. The 21 may be more realistic. I just hope it is not the 28th...or later...
I do feel that social workers are criminally undervalued in American society. Too many of them are underpaid. I remember that during the 2008-2012(?) recession in America there were a lot of cuts to education and social services...
What does a very mild sex impact even mean? For the one with Catwoman in season 1 they put it down as moderate impact.
Light flirting, like what happened between Harley and Bruce in episode 2.
For the past 3 days, Telltale has been releasing trailers for their games. Maybe tomorrow we will get one for Batman.
Those were mostly the trailers for episodes that are releasing next week though, so I very much doubt that we'll gat one for Batman so soon as well.
Perhaps. Or they will release the episode in two weeks from now if they release the trailer tomorrow.
Telling her off for being a thief isn't going to work in my favor, considering that she's just run into Bruce while he's working undercover in a hive of scum and villainy.
Perhaps instead of showing Bruce and Selina, Avesta, or Harley going through a full romantic cutscene it just transitions into a black screen while implying that Bruce and romance character spent the night together. Season 1 showed the whole kiss her and remove her costume instance perhaps since we are dealing with Harley it might just fade to black and have Harley laugh with ecstasy or something like that who knows I am really hoping for a Harley Quinn Romance
Yeah, but this is Australian ratings we're talking about. (no offense to any Aussies here)
It's probably just flirting, nothing more. I don't know how Telltale can convey the idea of two people "spending the night together" through a fade-to-black moment without some sort of build up. Least season it was pretty clear, made sense, and the scene had some sort of... rise in sexual tension? Simple flirting won't necessarily lead to that..
That's why Harley will laugh with ecstasy to ensure that players know that Bruce and Harley got together. Or it could be like flirting or some kiss or something while in episode 4 will probably have the romance scene or whatever you want to call it.
The more I think about it the more likely it becomes that John Doe is working for the Agency, that would fit with him wanting Bruce in the pact so badly, just like the Agency. How is the Agency supposed to know Bruce was to meet John Doe in the bar by the way ?
I don't think John is with them. John just considers Bruce a friend, and -- despite Bruce's values -- he believes that Bruce could fit in well with the group. He [Bruce] survived the Asylum, John understands that Bruce can be just as ruthless as his father, and wants to use that to his advantage.
The Agency knows that Bruce was going to meet with John, because they're an all-powerful intelligence agency. They keep tabs on everyone, they do their research. It's just how they operate.
I hope you are right. I'm a bit tired of everyone supposed to be a mastermind manipulator, giving characters layers of genuineness is what makes them interesting and believable. I hope John is at least sincere in his affection for Bruce and his infatuation with Harley.
Does not mean he is not more intelligent than he appears though.
Well it doesn't have to be that John is in The Agency, probably Waller is tracking Bruce's phone since she knows that he is Batman and they most likely hacked in and saw the message and sent Avesta to the bar.
Holy crap, I’m not alone! Everything about the Catwoman romance in the first season was the practical definition of shoehorned in fan service. I know you can veer Bruce in the other direction and keep it a “will they or won’t they?” but I’m afraid Telltale are going to lay on the romance angles very thick given the high statistic of players who think “I’ve only known you over the course of a few days and I’m already in love with you” is good storytelling.
Well actually it was a few days in the story and Bruce Wayne and Catwoman were always my favorite couple in the comics. I prefer any romance that keeps Damian far away from being in the TellTale series. Also Catwoman has saved Batman's life when he is fighting Lady Arkham in Episode 3 I am sure that if Catwoman left Batman behind, for him to get interrogated or captured, me and most player's wouldn't have romanced her. Catwoman even calls the relationship into question in episode 5 when she says if one night of sex meant they were going steady and your Bruce can be crushed, angry, or accepting of Selina's wishes if I remember that scene correctly. Also if you leave on good terms with Selina she will send Bruce a card at the end of Episode 5 meaning that they are still together because she will kiss Bruce and then leave on her motorcycle before Batman goes to stop Lady Arkham.
I pray we won't have to deal with her bullshit for very long. The sooner she is out of the picture the better.
She is nowhere near worthy of someone like Bruce.
I liked the Selina/Bruce romance..and I love all the people who say...Ohh Mister Bruce...he so pure like the driven snow. He is THE DEFINITION of Male Slut in the comics...so shut your pieholes and grow up.
Well, that’s edgy language.
If they end on good terms, whether they kiss or not, and she sends the card, I don't think it means that they are "together". I think it just means that she is grateful that he doesn't judge who she is or how she behaves. Selina may say that she is only a thief but I think she desperately wants to be seen as something more. Plus, she made a comment which I interpreted as meaning that Selina thinks relationships are a kind of cage; one that she is not interested in. At best, a relationship with Selina might be an on/off thing.
I recall her saying "you ruined it" if in episode 3 you say something else than "that's what you want people to believe" in regards to her being a thief without any virtue.
She clearly wanted someone to believe in her.
But it's the truth.
Sure for the comics, but this is Telltale so no “male slut” in my Batman story.
If Freeze is to be believed Bruce in Telltale's universe has a....reputation to sleep with many women.
Not at all surprising.
"My wife followed your goings in the society column, Wayne. You have fucked more women than I can count."
I don't think he said that verbatim but that's the idea.